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help very odd networking problem

Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
edited March 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
Ive no expert on this so please bare with me. And im dyslexic so please forgive my spelling


Ive moved into a house that has a network set up.

Cable modem to router (doesn’t have built in modem) the out via network cables to 4 different rooms

After opening ports etc I got my ps3 and 360 working in my room.

I then plugged the network cable in my room into the uplink port of a network hub. So I can have my 360 and ps3 working at the same time. And this also media shares with my laptop. All woks fine

It doesn’t detect any other computer on the system tho. So I thought thios was probably to do with the routers firewall. So I decided to stick the hub after the router


Modem to router to hub to pcs and stuff

Hers that strange problem. None of the other pcs light up on the hub as connected in any other port than the uplink port. This goes for the xbox and ps3 aswell.

It seems to be that the 4 cables already in the house only work if plugged directly from router to pc. Or from router to uplink port then to pc.

But don’t work if I was just setting up an normal network without the router involved


Is there a chance these are some different kind or cables

Its really odd that a pc directly connected to the hub don’t even turn on the light on the hub unless its in the uplink port. ive got two hubs and they both do the same

Please note I cannot be held responsible for any mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, karma, dharma, metaphysical, religious, philosophical, Logical , Ethical, Aesthetical, or financial damage caused by this post
Conroy Bumpas on

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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    The router that is plugged into your modem needs to be set to Gateway Mode, the others simply to Router mode. Make sure that DHCP is turned off for the secondary routers and make sure that the Dynamic Routing is turned on so that the routers can talk to one another.

    Your UPLINK port is the input from the gateway router, not the other way around. Your Gateway router doesn't need the uplink button pressed in. But all cables running from the Gateway router to the Secondary Routers need to be plugged into the "Uplink" port with the button pushed in.

    MagicPrime on
    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    netmapcrude.jpg
    Crude Network Map


    Basically this configuration turns your Gateway Router into your server and all the sub routers are just extensions of. If all the routers are handing out their own private IP addresses then you are creating sub networks that wont be able to see one another.

    You might already know all of this, but its a starting point for trains of thought.

    MagicPrime on
    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
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    DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Well, he said hub, not router. I don't think he has multiple routers at all.

    Daenris on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    From a networking standpoint Hubs are kinda stupid pieces of hardware. They don't really direct their information anywhere just simply broadcast it to any available port and hope that it reaches its destination, I might be a bit rusty on my networking infrastructure - but it might not be possible for a system plugged into a hub to detect systems on another port on a router.

    MagicPrime on
    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
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    DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Yeah, I haven't actually used a hub in a number of years. Ideally what you want would be a switch, or another router using the setup MagicPrime described above.

    As to why it's not working, not really sure. There are different types of cable, but if they work when you're plugging the devices into the router directly, they're the correct type.

    Daenris on
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    Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    the secondrys are just simple 5 port hubs

    just making a diagram like yours

    Conroy Bumpas on
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    Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    netmapcrude.jpg

    netmapcrude1.jpg

    Conroy Bumpas on
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    DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    What's wrong with using your first set up? The problem with them not being able to share between hub and router is likely more easily diagnosed. Hubs are pretty stupid and intolerant of different network settings. In the past when I had a home network on a simple hub, I would always have to triple check everything to make sure it all had exactly the same settings for the network in order for them to correctly see each other. Routers on the other hand are much more easy going and will deal with minor inconsistencies better.

    I'd suggest using your first diagram, and just double checking EVERYTHING about the network settings on the computers to try to figure out why they won't see each other on the network.

    Edit: The problem with the second may just be that you need a piece of crossover cable to connect Hub-to-Hub. It's an ethernet cable that's wired differently. How old and what model are the hubs? Do they have any switch or anything near the uplink port at all?

    Daenris on
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    Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    well yeah the first set up is fine for the internet but the devises cant detect eachother. and medis share




    the second set up. the 3 pc dont even light up on the hub showing that the cable is even connected. so i can even use it to swap files between them.

    ive remved the second hub so now its just strait to the xbox. that lights up showing its connected but the 3 pcs dont evan show up as being conected at all.

    Conroy Bumpas on
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    DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Okay, what about
    Edit: The problem with the second may just be that you need a piece of crossover cable to connect Hub-to-Hub. It's an ethernet cable that's wired differently. How old and what model are the hubs? Do they have any switch or anything near the uplink port at all?

    Daenris on
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    Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    there no switch on the uplink.

    lets simplyfy this...

    take the router and stuuf out the problem.

    1 hub. the pcs only show as conected if they are in the uplink port, they dont light up the little green light on the hub when the wire is in any other port (yes they are powered on etc)

    the xbox shows up in any port.



    i used to have thes hubs in my office network for 3 pcs and doing file shareing etc...

    Conroy Bumpas on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    That is starting to sound more and more like a patch/crossover cable problem.

    What order are the colored wires in on the cables?

    MagicPrime on
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    Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    ohhhh that could be a problem


    this wireing was done buy people before me. and the cables go threw the walls. and come out in each room in a wall socket like a phone soket that has a springy cover over it

    but in the room they start in they are just on a cobard that goes up into the wall.


    so i can only see one end of the cables.

    they are all the same. if i hold them away from me left to right they are oringe green blue green brown.

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    DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    1 hub. the pcs only show as conected if they are in the uplink port, they dont light up the little green light on the hub when the wire is in any other port (yes they are powered on etc)

    Is this true if they're plugged into the hub alone without the other hub plugged in?

    Edit: Do you have any spare network cables lying around that you can try to use to hook directly to the hub, instead of using the stuff that's run through the walls?

    Daenris on
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    BeazleBeazle Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    If these are truely hubs try not using the uplink port. go router--hubA (port 1)---hubB (port 1) and then connect the devices to the other ports on the hub. I believe if you are going port X on hubA to uplink on hubB then you need to use a crossover cable.

    Beazle on
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    Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    http://www.incentre.net/incentre/frame/ethernet.html


    ive ripped a socket off the wall and it looks to be wired up cat 5 a

    and the other end of the cable is wired cat 5 b

    as far as i can tell

    i didnt evan know where was an a and b

    anyone else come across this?

    Conroy Bumpas on
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    DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    According to the site you linked in your post, that would be a crossover cable.

    To connect a device to a hub or router you will want to use patch cable.

    Generally crossover cable is used to directly connect two computers, or two hubs.

    Maybe a better description of exactly how the place is wired, and which bits on your diagram are house wiring and which are separate cables would help. As above, I suggest you try to get your hands on several pieces of standard cat5 cable (not crossover) and just connect the computers to the hub to see if it works that way. Once you've confirmed that we can move on to the whole setup.

    Daenris on
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    Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    basicly after the router in my digram all the cables are in the walls

    ive used some normal cat5 from one pc to the xbox and that worked fine.


    so it looks like someone has wired up the house wrong.

    as far as i can tell the wall sokets are wired up a and the plug is wired up b so its like a b to a crossover and not a normal crossover cable

    all these 4 cables are in the walls

    DSC01279.JPG

    DSC01274.JPG

    DSC01273.JPG

    would that explane why my hub is not detecting them?

    Conroy Bumpas on
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    DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Wait... what? I'm confused now. I thought you were saying that one end of the cable in the wall was A and the other was B.

    What are the two ends you're looking at?

    Daenris on
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    Conroy BumpasConroy Bumpas Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    sorry i dint make it clear.


    the first pic is downstairs witch looks wired b (the out of focus plug)

    the next two pics are the socket one photo from the left side and one from the right. for some reson 4 cables poke out one side and 4 poke out the other. its two phots of teh same thing

    Conroy Bumpas on
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