[SWG] Throw it out, make your own!

CenoCeno pizza timeRegistered User regular
edited April 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
Now that it's universally accepted that Star Wars Galaxies has collapsed into an unmitigated clusterfuck of sad, and it's debated that Bioware may or may not possibly be working on maybe a new Star Wars MMO, it's time to start anew.

Permadeath? One Jedi per server? (Insert crazy game-breaking MMO idea here)?

Ceno on
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Posts

  • KingMoleKingMole Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Permadeath in MMOs is never a good idea. Who wants to spend a lot of time on a character, only to CTD/disconnect/have your power go out at a bad time and lose your character?

    Also the Jedi thing is totally up in the air depending on what time period in SW a game would be set in.

    I would prefer only a few "classes" with basic feats, allowing people to mix and match within reason. Say a force-sensitive is the only class allowed lightsaber use, but they can also optionally not bother with a lightsaber at all, and go for blaster weapons. A bounty hunter who can craft his own armor/weapons, et cetera, et cetera.

    KingMole on
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  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    according to some news article I read, there's a new update coming for SWG with more exciting content

    Wren on
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  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Wren wrote: »
    according to some news article I read, there's a new update coming for SWG with more exciting content

    Kinda sounds like that one lady for DDO or that PA comic on her.

    Lucky Cynic on
  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?READ=10406&GAME=6&VIEW=news&bhcp=1
    Temple of Exar Kun Heroic Encounter:

    A team of archaeologists has been searching the remaining temples on Yavin 4 to find lost Sith artifacts. While exploring the area around the Temple of Exar Kun , the team stumbled upon undiscovered catacombs hidden deep underground. What will they discover in the depths of the temple? Find out in this new heroic encounter!

    Your journey to uncover the mysteries of the Temple of Exar Kun begins in the Aurilia Adventurer's guildhall.

    Storyteller:

    Storyteller blueprints have been added. Blueprints allow a storyteller to lay out a scene with storyteller props, save that scene, and deploy it quickly and easily. The storyteller vendor near the NPC theaters in each city offers a blueprint for sale. Use the radial menu on the blank storyteller blueprint in your inventory and choose Save Blueprint Data to save the complete scene.

    You can also add a description to a blueprint that can be viewed in the Examine window.
    Ground targeting for storyteller prop placement has been added.

    Jukebox converters have been added to the storyteller vendor. A jukebox converter will make a storyteller prop that you target and that you own into a jukebox. It will then behave just like a normal jukebox storyteller prop.

    The music being played by a storyteller jukebox can now be heard whether or not you are part of that jukebox's story. The one exception is if you are participating in someone's story, then you will only hear music played by jukeboxes that are part of that story.

    Wren on
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  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I uh, really don't know what to make of that.

    Lucky Cynic on
  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    yeah. I played the game for a year and it doesn't make sense to me either

    Wren on
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  • KajustaKajusta Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Hopefully they'd set it in either the 'Age of Peace and Decline' or at least after the galactic civil war.

    At least with the latter there would be explanation as to why there's 10 million Jedi everywhere.

    Kajusta on
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  • CenoCeno pizza time Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    KingMole wrote: »
    Permadeath in MMOs is never a good idea. Who wants to spend a lot of time on a character, only to CTD/disconnect/have your power go out at a bad time and lose your character?

    Also the Jedi thing is totally up in the air depending on what time period in SW a game would be set in.

    I would prefer only a few "classes" with basic feats, allowing people to mix and match within reason. Say a force-sensitive is the only class allowed lightsaber use, but they can also optionally not bother with a lightsaber at all, and go for blaster weapons. A bounty hunter who can craft his own armor/weapons, et cetera, et cetera.

    I agree for the most part. I do NOT want my character running alongside Han Solo, or any other notable Star Wars character for that matter. I don't have any objection to them existing in-game (time frame permitting, of course) as long as they remain relatively dormant NPCs that exist for novelty's sake or we only hear about their adventures in whispers throughout the course of the game.

    Full character customization is a must, naturally. And I am looking forward to someone developing a more robust questing system that entails more than "Kill X gundarks, then kill X elder gundarks". I like the idea of developing a story around your character as you gain in experience/level/whatever. Something similar to the LOTRO title system but more robust and much more than just a novelty.

    Ceno on
  • H*RH*R Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Set it in the New Jedi Order (I think that's right) with the jedi run by Luke. Bring in the Yuuzohn Vong and then just do whatever you want. That setting is so much more wide open.

    H*R on
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  • Gnomeland SecurityGnomeland Security Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I played star wars galaxies LONG long long ago before the days of warcraft. Back when every morning had 6 hours of downtime and it was sony's ways of telling you to SLEEP.

    I once had a TKM that shot so many jawa i had tuskan raider faction...

    I was the type of guy who floated around between skill trees and took what looked interesting at one time or another. I went into the bounty hunter tree after playing with the pre-reqs while still maintaining my master architect status (only one on the server)

    Id left for WoW because of the credit duping scandal that ended with 1/2 my guild being banned for accepting duped credits unknowingly.

    So i came back about 1-2 years later... and was allowed to reroll... wait what? Yes, all my skill trees and hours of work meant nothing. They had changed their entire skill system and i now was allowed to start as a level 9 character.

    Oh, and people could roll jedi from the start.

    Ok, that did it for me *waves*

    Oh, and everyone started with a land speeder now... ya cute

    If i was going to FIX SWG id tear it to the ground, burn it, piss on its ashes, and set it all in the time of Knights of the Old Republic, make Jedi NPCs only, and allow creature handlers to be KOS

    Game fixed

    Gnomeland Security on
  • H*RH*R Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    What. You don't like people duel wielding Rancors?

    H*R on
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  • RaggaholicRaggaholic Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Ah, SWG... my first fray into MMORPGs. This game had so much potential, but so little delievery. I went Empire from the start, got a uniform, and rp'd instead of trying to be uber. The beauty of the game was in the sheer amount of things you could do. I ran a mining company with a host of lot trades and made a TON of money without ever having to craft a single thing.

    I always hated that they put Jedi in the game. It took the focus off of the Civil War and put it on sabers. I thought that only devs should have been able to be jedi, or CSRs for special events. But, ah well, I didn't make the game.

    If they had a new MMO, I'd play it... at least for a while. I tried to go back to SWG recently after being gone since around early 05 (played since launch) and hated it. It was a ghost town and I had no clue what I was doing anymore.

    Raggaholic on
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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    H*R wrote: »
    What. You don't like people duel wielding Rancors?

    Maybe, but I like not spending two weeks of faction grinding only to buy an AT-ST, and have it be soloed by a Bounty Hunter in the time it takes me to load my screen.

    I mean.

    Just read that sentence.

    That happened to me.

    How fucking tragic is that for a game to make such a thing possible.

    Jasconius on
  • RaggaholicRaggaholic Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Maybe, but I like not spending two weeks of faction grinding only to buy an AT-ST, and have it be soloed by a Bounty Hunter in the time it takes me to load my screen.
    Yeah, I remember that patch. Twas a sad day. Although you have to admit you didn't expect them to leave the AT-STs the way they were (one could take down 60 people... repeatedly), then hide and bring back for instant auto heal.

    Raggaholic on
    Feral wrote:
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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Raggaholic wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Maybe, but I like not spending two weeks of faction grinding only to buy an AT-ST, and have it be soloed by a Bounty Hunter in the time it takes me to load my screen.
    Yeah, I remember that patch. Twas a sad day. Although you have to admit you didn't expect them to leave the AT-STs the way they were (one could take down 60 people... repeatedly), then hide and bring back for instant auto heal.

    Well, this right here is a microcosm of SOE's approach to patching and balancing this game.

    AT-ST's too powerful? Hah, now anyone can solo them in their sleep. Also, they can't even attack NPC's anymore (the only thing they'd have a chance at being effective against anymore) so you just wasted your time for nothing.

    Over and over and over again.

    Jasconius on
  • NismoGrendelNismoGrendel Registered User
    edited April 2008
    I loved SWG before I went to basic training. I was playing a pistoleer and trying to work my way to bounty hunter. I never really got into pvp, but I loved exploring all the worlds.

    During tech school I was watching the trailers for jump to lightspeed and drooling, couldn't wait to buy a yt-1300 and fly around.

    When I finally got to my first base I loaded up SWG and tried to get back into it, but something was off.

    This was shortly before the first change... the CU or whatever they called it?

    NismoGrendel on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    New Jedi Order really would make the best MMORPG setting.

    It's not necessarily the most interesting or dramatic setting of Star Wars, but it's certainly one that would translate into a MMORPG the best.

    Pony on
  • KingMoleKingMole Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Pony wrote: »
    New Jedi Order really would make the best MMORPG setting.

    It's not necessarily the most interesting or dramatic setting of Star Wars, but it's certainly one that would translate into a MMORPG the best.

    What, Old Republic/KOTOR wouldn't?

    Also I really can't get into the NJO stuff for some reason.

    KingMole on
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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    KingMole wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    New Jedi Order really would make the best MMORPG setting.

    It's not necessarily the most interesting or dramatic setting of Star Wars, but it's certainly one that would translate into a MMORPG the best.

    What, Old Republic/KOTOR wouldn't?

    Also I really can't get into the NJO stuff for some reason.

    Old Republic/KOTOR would make for a good setting, if you wanted to make a WoW-esque game about dual-faction warfare and such.

    NJO has the Vong as basically a monolithic evil entity with varying levels and types of alien badguys to throw at you whose equipment, weapons, and techniques are suitably alien enough to justify why you can't just take their cool shit (always a personal beef I have with MMORPGs) and it would have the plus of not having to kowtow to the established SW story that happens after it's supposed to take place.

    Pony on
  • HibikiHibiki Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Did any of the swg developers ever speak up about how it's self destruction?

    Hibiki on
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Hibiki wrote: »
    Did any of the swg developers ever speak up about how it's self destruction?

    "Guys, think we should speak up about how it's self destruction?"

    Lucky Cynic on
  • KingMoleKingMole Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I think Raph Koster has, but I presume that's because he left SOE.

    KingMole on
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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    SOE executives not directly involved with the game have posted publicly about the disaster that SWG turned out, but it really was sort of bittersweet because at the same time they condemned and apologized for the entire game up to that point, they also introduced the NGE which is by far and away the worst step the game has ever taken.

    The tragic thing is that there is no saving SWG. Even if you pry away the horrible combat system, an abused Faction system, the retarded NGE class system, abysmal world design (75% or more of the SWG game world was generated by algorithm), and all the other terrible crap... well you are pretty much left with Jump to Lightspeed (which has been grossly underdeveloped for since release), and the crafting system, which is love or hate for most people.

    Jasconius on
  • THORTHOR Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Ah yes, yes. SWG, my first MMO, and still the most fun I have ever had playing any game. Despite all its problems, and the Devs being utterly incompetent, still a great game. I played since early after release up until the NGE, I even stuck it out though the CU. The game was just so much fun. Ahhh...buff lines, Quenker hunting, Kryrat Dragon killing, killing rebels, endless TKM duels, ridiculously overpowered CMs, the un-usefulness of about 1/3 of the proffesions, attempting the Jedi grind....oh so many memories.

    Perhaps a new SW MMO will be good, or else pehaps the SWGEmu will be finished sometime this decade... Also, I'm pretty sure that somewhere they have stated that the new one will be set in KOTOR times.

    THOR on
    Upp och hoppa Tor, Slå på trumma bror, Det ar danse ut i Valhal i natt.

    By the Fires of Muspelheim!!
  • KingMoleKingMole Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    THOR wrote: »
    Also, I'm pretty sure that somewhere they have stated that the new one will be set in KOTOR times.

    That's just rumour and speculation. No one is even sure if there will be a new SW MMO.

    KingMole on
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  • THORTHOR Registered User
    edited April 2008
    KingMole wrote: »
    THOR wrote: »
    Also, I'm pretty sure that somewhere they have stated that the new one will be set in KOTOR times.

    That's just rumour and speculation. No one is even sure if there will be a new SW MMO.

    I remember hearing it from a reputable source, and that it was confirmed. But, hell my memory is probably wrong, perhaps I'm remembering what I want to remember.

    THOR on
    Upp och hoppa Tor, Slå på trumma bror, Det ar danse ut i Valhal i natt.

    By the Fires of Muspelheim!!
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Given that you remember it being a great game that's a safe bet.




    ;-)

    Glal on
  • THORTHOR Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Hahaha. I guess it is Glal.
    But I said it was a ridiculously fun game, despite being horribly made.

    THOR on
    Upp och hoppa Tor, Slå på trumma bror, Det ar danse ut i Valhal i natt.

    By the Fires of Muspelheim!!
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2008
    SWG gives me the memories of being a good game in what parts weren't broken. But the devs insisted on breaking everything they could, every patch.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • LaonarLaonar Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    THOR wrote: »
    Hahaha. I guess it is Glal.
    But I said it was a ridiculously fun game, despite being horribly made.

    There was a article in Game Informer with a Bio Ware rep, saything they are working on a MMO, but wouldnt confirm it was swg.. they do have the rights to it though.

    Laonar on
  • KingMoleKingMole Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Laonar wrote: »
    There was a article in Game Informer with a Bio Ware rep, saything they are working on a MMO, but wouldnt confirm it was swg.. they do have the rights to it though.

    I don't think they do about that either.

    Publicly known facts are:
    - they are making an MMO
    - they are partnered with LucasArts for an un-announced title so far

    KingMole on
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  • THORTHOR Registered User
    edited April 2008
    SWG gives me the memories of being a good game in what parts weren't broken. But the devs insisted on breaking everything they could, every patch.

    SOEs motto there: If it aint broken, fix it.

    Seriously, there were professions that were never, in the history of the game, ever useful...ever not even for a day. Take Smuggler for example, was broken from day 1, everyone wanted them to fix it naturally they ignored it and tried to "fix" the working classes.

    THOR on
    Upp och hoppa Tor, Slå på trumma bror, Det ar danse ut i Valhal i natt.

    By the Fires of Muspelheim!!
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    THOR wrote: »
    SWG gives me the memories of being a good game in what parts weren't broken. But the devs insisted on breaking everything they could, every patch.

    SOEs motto there: If it aint broken, fix it.

    Seriously, there were professions that were never, in the history of the game, ever useful...ever not even for a day. Take Smuggler for example, was broken from day 1, everyone wanted them to fix it naturally they ignored it and tried to "fix" the working classes.

    It's still broken, even after they fixed it.

    The smuggling system is totally inane.

    There is no single part of SWG that is complete and perfect in its own right.

    The closest thing in that category would be JTL, followed by crafting, but both still have some big flaws, but at least they are playable (well, crafting really isn't playable anymore, but JTL is)

    Jasconius on
  • THORTHOR Registered User
    edited April 2008
    JTL when it first came out and stuff, before the CU/NGE when everyone stopped playing, seemed pointless, everyone did some missions out in space, but after like 2 weeks no one was up there, no one did missions or pvp. Only some people went for the Master Pilot title.

    THOR on
    Upp och hoppa Tor, Slå på trumma bror, Det ar danse ut i Valhal i natt.

    By the Fires of Muspelheim!!
  • RaggaholicRaggaholic Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Jasconius wrote: »
    There is no single part of SWG that is complete and perfect in its own right.

    It's hard to argue that something was wrong with the old crafting system. Ok, ok, ok... there were periods of months that the servers could go without spawning a necessary material, but that wasn't the crafting system itself's fault...

    The one thing that I really, REALLY, liked about SWG was the absolute sandbox of it. I had a character who was a Doc/whatever profession let you put up vendors. With that character, I became a multi-millionaire without ever running a mission or crafting a single piece of armor or weapon. I just ran a business that absolutely exploded. Plus, it was fun.

    I believe if they would have just left the game alone, even as broken as was when it was released, it would probably still be going on today.

    Raggaholic on
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  • OtakingOtaking Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I played SWG at release. It was fun until Jedi came in and to a lesser extent until composite armor was the de facto combat gear. Taking your first pistoleer out to the little mini-mission (randomly generated base) and blasting it out with Stormtroopers doing Han Solo style rolls and going prone to cover and all that felt like a pretty good combat system at first.

    That was when the little bonuses from the prone or whatever mattered, before you got a set of composite and a big gun. Then you just worried about carrying enough food and drugs to shoot up with, dancer buffs for mind and the occasional CM run-in. So right there it ceased to be Star Wars.

    A good Star Wars game:

    - Historical period in which there are infinite Jedi, in fact Force stats should be integrated with every character (It is all around us after all :P Let's all pretend the M word never existed.) This historical period would be as unexplored by other creators of Star Wars literature as possible. This gives the developers the most free reign to come up with ideas that are both compelling and can fit into an MMO setting.

    - The more Force powers you have, the more regular skill you have to give up *entirely*. No, you can't be a super-pilot, gambler, bounty-hunter, pistoleer, droid engineer, lady's man, and shoot lightning. I don't care if it is canon, it's retarded. And no, you can't shoot lightning and only use 80% of all the other skills and make up the difference with items. (skilltapeslol)

    - Ship-to-ship, ship-to-space station/capital ship combat, and the hijacking thereof for smugglers.

    - A good black market system to give smugglers something to run and enhance player trade.

    - I'd keep a creature handling skill actually, one facet of the movies was always interesting creatures and it would be a good way to keep them around. Just not so ridiculous. It would be interesting to run into the occasional bounty hunter or jedi with a tamed rancor.

    - Good combat system goes without saying, physics integration, action-y.

    - Stay away from trying to make classes too far removed from combat. I hate to say this but vidja games are a very visceral medium. I have yet to see something compelling and fun with a deep game attached to it that is not combat oriented. I was a mayor and architect in the original SWG the day the patch came out. These skills got used maybe .0000001% of your total play time. All the dancer players ran theirs by script while they played their other Jedi character. Leave the diplomacy, and social aspects inside of well-crafted mission content.

    Otaking on
  • RaggaholicRaggaholic Registered User
    edited April 2008
    Otaking wrote: »
    Stay away from trying to make classes too far removed from combat. I hate to say this but vidja games are a very visceral medium. I have yet to see something compelling and fun with a deep game attached to it that is not combat oriented.
    Whoa there... there was PLENTY of good, deep content that was not combat oriented.

    For instance, I was on Gorath and ran The Imperial Mining Company. This company made me rich, and it was so simple to run. Through lot trades, I had a harvestor farm on Lok of around 90 Mineral Harvestors. I would feed them with creds and power, as well as empty the harvestors, twice a week. I sold the metal for 2cpu and ore for 3cpu. I had a vendor on almost every planet (which was a human and dressed in the imperial uniform). I even had tracking charts of how much I pulled, what my cost per unit was, what my cost per vendor was... all of that.

    Maybe it was the fact that I was in business school at the time, but I loved it and there was almost no combat involved. The only combat would come from, occassional, I'd need an escort party to head out there with me because killas (or whatever the Lok "krayt" was) would spawn in my field.

    There was a fierce player run economy, and no matter how "inflated" people claimed it was, I made a killing by just playing the market in game.

    Raggaholic on
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  • darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I doubt this will be a popular standpoint, but I really liked the time period SW:G was set in. Of course everyone wants to be a jedi in single-player games, but I really don't like the idea of a SW MMO w/ thousands of jedi running around. I think they should keep jedi as an impossibly difficult class to unlock and/or relegate them to devs or other big wigs only.

    When everyone is allowed to be a jedi, what's the appeal? I think there's a certain sense of awe that needs to accompany such a powerful class of person, and by allowing everyone to be a jedi you're really ruining that awe. Not to mention a lot of people playing jedi would run exactly opposite to the principles and ideals that jedi are supposed to embody.

    TL;DR Keep jedi as non-playable characters, or make them incredibly difficult to attain.

    darklite_x on
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  • RaggaholicRaggaholic Registered User
    edited April 2008
    darklite_x wrote: »
    TL;DR Keep jedi as non-playable characters, or make them incredibly difficult to attain.
    That was the original thought from my understanding. Then everyone wanted a possibility of Jedi, so they created a way but didn't tell anyone. Then people started leaving, and they made the way known. Then people kept leaving and they made it a starting class.

    I don't think they should really be in game at all, as it will come to everyone thinking jedi should be impossible to get... except the one they control.

    Raggaholic on
    Feral wrote:
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  • THORTHOR Registered User
    edited April 2008
    The player based economy was one of the outstanding high points of the game. All items, gear, weapons, houses, furniture, cloths, meds, everything was made and sold by players. This fact made SWG so much more enjoyable, not to mention playable for those who didnt want to fight. I mean, with buffs, Docs made the most money out of any profession, hands down. Really, no other big MMO has anything like the economy of SWG.

    THOR on
    Upp och hoppa Tor, Slå på trumma bror, Det ar danse ut i Valhal i natt.

    By the Fires of Muspelheim!!
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