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Primaries: Democralypse Now!

monikermoniker Registered User regular
edited April 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
Demolition Derby
IT LOOKS as if Pat Robertson and his cohorts were right all along: God really is a Republican. The Democrats ought to have little problem retaking the White House this November, given the unpopular war, the weakening economy and the anti-Republican backlash. But instead of measuring the White House drapes they are engaged in what Bill Kristol, a Republican commentator, has gleefully dubbed a “rollicking demolition derby”.

The past month has seen the Democratic candidates hit by a couple of monster trucks in the form of Barack Obama's former pastor and Hillary Clinton's repeated fantasies about Bosnia. It is true that these would surely both have come to light during the general election campaign. You cannot associate with an America-bashing preacher or invent a story about braving sniper fire while landing in a quiet airport in Tuzla without paying a price. But the stories are much more damaging because fellow Democrats have been fanning the flames for months. The Clintons have been determined to define Mr Obama as just another “black candidate”. And the Obamaites have been whispering that Mrs Clinton is as untruthful as Slick Willie himself.

The Democratic candidates have also gone on record making explosive charges that they cannot now defuse. Mrs Clinton has argued that there are only two candidates in the race capable of being commander-in-chief—herself and John McCain. Mr Obama has argued that his “baggage” could be stored in an overhead locker whereas Mrs Clinton's would fill an entire plane.

In other words, the Democrats are cheerfully doing the Republicans' dirty work for them. The Republicans had hitherto been nervous about raising “the black issue” for fear of being branded “racist”, or the “Hillary is a liar issue” for fear of being tarred with Ken Starr's brush. But now the Democrats have written the Republican attack ads for them, and starred in them too. It is worth remembering that the first person to raise the spectre of Willie Horton, a black murderer who committed a rape while on furlough, to demolish Michael Dukakis was a fellow Democrat, Al Gore. Come the general election, Mr McCain will not have to do much more than repeat the winning strategy of George Bush senior—use the Democrats' own poison against them.

The Democrats are also wasting precious time. It is an iron rule of American politics that the best way to win is to define your opponent before he gets a chance to define him or herself. The Republicans released their killer ad, which showed John Kerry saying that he had voted for funding the Iraq war before he voted against it, on March 18th, 2004. But rather than defining Mr McCain the Democrats are letting Mr McCain define himself.

This might not matter so much if the senator from Arizona were a mere Bush clone. But he is more than that—a spunky maverick who has frequently broken with the Republican machine and earned admiration from moderates and independents. He is also using his time wisely. He has tried to look presidential by touring the Middle East and Europe (not without mishap, as when he managed to confuse Sunni and Shia extremists in Iraq). And he has tried to distance himself from George Bush's foreign policy by stressing the importance of global co-operation, calling for a reduction in stockpiles of nuclear weapons and pledging that he will do more to deal with global warming and malaria. He is also turning his ragtag primary operation into a presidential campaign machine.

The Democrats are all too aware that their civil war could spell disaster. A cavalcade of senior Democrats, including senators Patrick Leahy and Chris Dodd, have advised Mrs Clinton to retire to her room with a glass of whisky and a loaded revolver. Howard Dean, the head of the Democratic National Committee, and Harry Reid, the majority leader of the Senate, have both urged the superdelegates to make their votes public on July 1st, effectively ending the nomination race at that point. Some Democrats have suggested that an Obama-Clinton ticket would turn a fight into a triumph; others, perhaps after a few too many drinks, have suggested that the party should end the deadlock by drafting Mr Gore.

She's no lamb
But the chances of a peaceful solution look vanishingly small. Why should Mrs Clinton turn herself into a sacrificial lamb? If anybody is defined by what Thomas Hobbes called “a perpetual and restless desire of power after power that ceaseth only in death” then it is the junior senator from New York. But it is not just that self-sacrifice would be against her nature. She can also make a plausible case that she is the stronger candidate. She has so far won 14 states with 44% of the country's population (16 states with 53% of the population if you include Florida and Michigan) compared with his 27 states with 34% of the population. She has won Florida and Ohio, two vital battleground states, and will almost certainly win Pennsylvania, a third. The polls show her beating Mr McCain in the last two of these, while Mr McCain beats Mr Obama in all three.

Besides, why should either side bury the hatchet? The Obamaites regard the Clintons as narcissists who were responsible for losing the House in 1994 and wrecking Mr Gore's chances of winning the presidency in 2000. The Clintonites regard the Obamaites as neophytes who will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, as the Democrats have so often contrived to do.

The battle is also fuelled by grievances of race, sex and class. Blacks vote overwhelmingly for Mr Obama. Older white women vote overwhelmingly for Mrs Clinton. Professionals vote for Mr Obama, blue-collar workers for Mrs Clinton. Mr McCain the warrior is well-positioned to pick up votes from white working-class Democrats, and Mr McCain the reformer can pick up votes from independents and moderates. One party's demolition derby is another party's gift from God.

Because Elk's has forever ruined me with the awesomeness that is The Economist.

moniker on
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Posts

  • Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    This.

    Zen Vulgarity on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Well, it's nice to see that The Economist has decided to add their name to the growing list of "Press Fluffers For McCain".

    Edit: Yet again, McCain is not a "maverick". He has shown an utter willingness to kowtow to the demands of the GOP hierarchy and a love for lobbyists. The MSM needs to get off their knees and actually look at reality for once.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I call out to all those who seek freedom
    to come forth and join us. This night is yours.
    Because one day we will retake this country with an iron fist.
    One day, WE WILL ALL TAKE OVER THE WHITE HOUSE

    Take Over The White House
    Live, there. Reign, there. Live there. Reign.

    We reject the old guard's fires.
    Gone are days of red empires.
    We transform to live in freedom.
    Armed with hope, we march and lead...OOOOOOOONNNN.....

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • OboroOboro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2008
    I have to say, The Economist's articles on the primaries have gotten progressively worse and progressively-more biased in that they're going out of their way to appear unbiased in re: to the Democratic primaries; when, in reality, it just makes them look ignorant to the specifics, like they're just part of the MSM pecking line instead of being, you know, The Economist.

    Oboro on
    words
  • Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    What's annoying is that I normally trust The Economist.

    Zen Vulgarity on
  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] As elusive as doubt Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I dont think the dems taking shots at each other is a bad thing. They are bringing up all the dirt on each other before the election itself; once one of them gets nominated, there will be almost no dirt left that McCain will be able to use.

    I do wish it would just fucking end though, christ.

    [Tycho?] on
    mvaYcgc.jpg
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    I dont think the dems taking shots at each other is a bad thing. They are bringing up all the dirt on each other before the election itself; once one of them gets nominated, there will be almost no dirt left that McCain will be able to use.

    I do wish it would just fucking end though, christ.

    On the contrary, he can just play clips of them slinging the dirt for him, and point at it, and all the Repubs/Independants/Apathetic Dems who haven't been watching the primary will be like, "Oh, wow, that's new!"

    Houn on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Well, it's nice to see that The Economist has decided to add their name to the growing list of "Press Fluffers For McCain".

    Edit: Yet again, McCain is not a "maverick". He has shown an utter willingness to kowtow to the demands of the GOP hierarchy and a love for lobbyists. The MSM needs to get off their knees and actually look at reality for once.

    Perception is reality in politics, which is part of what they were saying. Also, he has broken GOP dogma on certain issues, for good or ill.

    moniker on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Well, it's nice to see that The Economist has decided to add their name to the growing list of "Press Fluffers For McCain".

    Edit: Yet again, McCain is not a "maverick". He has shown an utter willingness to kowtow to the demands of the GOP hierarchy and a love for lobbyists. The MSM needs to get off their knees and actually look at reality for once.

    Perception is reality in politics, which is part of what they were saying. Also, he has broken GOP dogma on certain issues, for good or ill.

    He breaks it for the cameras bu when push comes to shove he votes with his party

    nexuscrawler on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    The thing is, Obama and Clinton and both good at slogging through the mud and coming out clean. The GOP continually underestimated Bill's ability to do this... they really undervalue the power of charisma. And, while Hillary doesn't do this as well as Bill, she still has the ability.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    He breaks it for the cameras bu when push comes to shove he votes with his party

    I immediately read this as "when bush comes to shove"

    Octoparrot on
  • One Thousand CablesOne Thousand Cables An absence of thought Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Cantido wrote: »
    I call out to all those who seek freedom
    to come forth and join us. This night is yours.
    Because one day we will retake this country with an iron fist.
    One day, WE WILL ALL TAKE OVER THE WHITE HOUSE

    Take Over The White House
    Live, there. Reign, there. Live there. Reign.

    We reject the old guard's fires.
    Gone are days of red empires.
    We transform to live in freedom.
    Armed with hope, we march and lead...OOOOOOOONNNN.....

    Someone turn this into the next "It's Raining McCain," except this would be much more awesome.

    One Thousand Cables on
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Well, it's nice to see that The Economist has decided to add their name to the growing list of "Press Fluffers For McCain".

    Edit: Yet again, McCain is not a "maverick". He has shown an utter willingness to kowtow to the demands of the GOP hierarchy and a love for lobbyists. The MSM needs to get off their knees and actually look at reality for once.

    Perception is reality in politics, which is part of what they were saying. Also, he has broken GOP dogma on certain issues, for good or ill.

    He breaks it for the cameras bu when push comes to shove he votes with his party

    Saw some study which had him as one of the most "conservative" members and Clinton and Obama as run of the mill for their party. Don't know who sponsored the study. (Obama and Clinton were like...low 80s on the scale, McCain was a 9, on a scale of 0 to 100 with conservative/liberal. Or something).

    Jragghen on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    He breaks it for the cameras bu when push comes to shove he votes with his party

    I immediately read this as "when bush comes to shove"

    And of course this reading does no damage to the intended meaning. In fact, I like it better.

    Hachface on
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    So I'm curious that McCain is blatantly in violation of public financing rules, but seems to be harping on Obama about how they should both run public financing.

    Isn't it a bit shady to try and make this a political line when you already applied for it, got it, then broke it's rules and pretended it didn't exist? Seems like taking McCain up on his word to adhere to the same rules again is a sucker's bet. But I'm sure everyone's going to continue to act like Obama said he'd do public financing without any expectation of his opponent agreeing to rules and restrictions.

    kildy on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Jragghen wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Well, it's nice to see that The Economist has decided to add their name to the growing list of "Press Fluffers For McCain".

    Edit: Yet again, McCain is not a "maverick". He has shown an utter willingness to kowtow to the demands of the GOP hierarchy and a love for lobbyists. The MSM needs to get off their knees and actually look at reality for once.

    Perception is reality in politics, which is part of what they were saying. Also, he has broken GOP dogma on certain issues, for good or ill.

    He breaks it for the cameras bu when push comes to shove he votes with his party

    Saw some study which had him as one of the most "conservative" members and Clinton and Obama as run of the mill for their party. Don't know who sponsored the study. (Obama and Clinton were like...low 80s on the scale, McCain was a 9, on a scale of 0 to 100 with conservative/liberal. Or something).

    And I've seen 'studies' labelling Obama as the most liberal member of Congress. Not of the Senate, mind you, but the entire legislative body. Meaning that he was in competition with Kucinich and the like.


    Also, McCain Feingold (which he is flouting) and McCain Kennedy, (though he's a turncoat on that now because Lou Dobbs smash) were supported when push came to shove.

    moniker on
  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] As elusive as doubt Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Houn wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    I dont think the dems taking shots at each other is a bad thing. They are bringing up all the dirt on each other before the election itself; once one of them gets nominated, there will be almost no dirt left that McCain will be able to use.

    I do wish it would just fucking end though, christ.

    On the contrary, he can just play clips of them slinging the dirt for him, and point at it, and all the Repubs/Independants/Apathetic Dems who haven't been watching the primary will be like, "Oh, wow, that's new!"

    All those people who haven't been watching the primary? Its been front page news here in Canadafor many months. Its broadcast nonstop on all the major US news outlets. To not know about these things you'd have to quite literally have no access to any news.

    [Tycho?] on
    mvaYcgc.jpg
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    I dont think the dems taking shots at each other is a bad thing. They are bringing up all the dirt on each other before the election itself; once one of them gets nominated, there will be almost no dirt left that McCain will be able to use.

    I do wish it would just fucking end though, christ.

    On the contrary, he can just play clips of them slinging the dirt for him, and point at it, and all the Repubs/Independants/Apathetic Dems who haven't been watching the primary will be like, "Oh, wow, that's new!"

    All those people who haven't been watching the primary? Its been front page news here in Canadafor many months. Its broadcast nonstop on all the major US news outlets. To not know about these things you'd have to quite literally have no access to any news.

    You sorely underestimate how militantly unaware people are.

    kildy on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    I dont think the dems taking shots at each other is a bad thing. They are bringing up all the dirt on each other before the election itself; once one of them gets nominated, there will be almost no dirt left that McCain will be able to use.

    I do wish it would just fucking end though, christ.

    On the contrary, he can just play clips of them slinging the dirt for him, and point at it, and all the Repubs/Independants/Apathetic Dems who haven't been watching the primary will be like, "Oh, wow, that's new!"

    All those people who haven't been watching the primary? Its been front page news here in Canadafor many months. Its broadcast nonstop on all the major US news outlets. To not know about these things you'd have to quite literally have no access to any news.

    Most nightly news programs are on at the same time as popular TV shows. All members of my extended family believe that this has been an extremely civil campaign so far (not 'in comparison to others') and hadn't heard of anything negative beyond Ferraro and only a few things about Wright, for instance.

    moniker on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    040908DailyUpdateGraph1_mnbvert.gif

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Jesus clinton on one hand is saying that the mark penn visits columbia won't hurt her campaign, and then on the other hand BRINGS UP THE OLD LIES! About the fucking canada nafta shit, why doesn't the news call that bullshit to roost?

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/08/clinton.penn/index.html

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Columbia, SCRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    That Gallup graph... dayum.

    FunkyWaltDogg on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Preacher wrote: »
    Jesus clinton on one hand is saying that the mark penn visits columbia won't hurt her campaign, and then on the other hand BRINGS UP THE OLD LIES! About the fucking canada nafta shit, why doesn't the news call that bullshit to roost?

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/08/clinton.penn/index.html

    Because that would include admitting their previous reporting was wrong? Just a guess.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    040908DailyUpdateGraph1_mnbvert.gif

    That's the 10 point spread we've been waiting for is it not?

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    People are starting to realize she can't win

    nexuscrawler on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Preacher wrote: »
    Jesus clinton on one hand is saying that the mark penn visits columbia won't hurt her campaign, and then on the other hand BRINGS UP THE OLD LIES! About the fucking canada nafta shit, why doesn't the news call that bullshit to roost?

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/08/clinton.penn/index.html

    Because that would include admitting their previous reporting was wrong? Just a guess.

    But I mean wasn't it discovered it was the clinton campaign who did it and then blamed obama? Or is that just a conspiracy?

    And until that trend continues more I wont trust it, it's not the first time they have been 10 points apart.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2008
    040908DailyUpdateGraph1_mnbvert.gif

    That's the 10 point spread we've been waiting for is it not?

    It hit 10 points a while ago, then closed up again. If it hits the 30's, then I think we're in business.

    Edit: I should clarify, that's Clinton's points hitting the 30's, not the spread.

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    040908DailyUpdateGraph1_mnbvert.gif

    That's the 10 point spread we've been waiting for is it not?

    It hit 10 points a while ago, then closed up again. If it hits the 30's, then I think we're in business.

    If the Clinton line turns into a cobra and the Obama line turns into a spry mongoose and the mongoose slays the cobra and then puts on an Uncle Sam hat, then I think we're in business.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I can see some good trends there, he hasn't been below 49 for a couple weeks and this is the lowest she's been on the graph shown. Still until the up and down stops happening I won't put any faith in that, we still see that suprisingly despite her having not really changed any position in the actual contest she was higher then him.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2008
    Preacher wrote: »
    I can see some good trends there, he hasn't been below 49 for a couple weeks and this is the lowest she's been on the graph shown. Still until the up and down stops happening I won't put any faith in that, we still see that suprisingly despite her having not really changed any position in the actual contest she was higher then him.

    I do find it interesting they haven't crossed lines in nearly a month. It was much more frequent before that.

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • horatio77horatio77 Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    I like this one a little better
    election2008_HP_1.gif
    It better shows how flat the lines are on average, but also makes it more interesting that he's stayed marginally ahead for a while now. If he can mostly keep it above the margin of error up through the 22nd it could play in the news cycle during the primary in PA. Two weeks is a long time though.

    horatio77 on
    To thine own self be true;
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    So long as we say goodbye to the double helix I'll be happy. Even if it's a lead well within moe, so long as he stays slightly above, good times.

    moniker on
  • WMain00WMain00 Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    The gallup polls are starting to look fascinating. Methinks Obama is gaining a strong momentum now. He's also starting to lead against McCain, though this usually depends on McCain being blunderous at times (ie anything to do with Iraq....he should really just shut up about Iraq)

    WMain00 on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    So long as we say goodbye to the double helix I'll be happy. Even if it's a lead well within moe, so long as he stays slightly above, good times.

    You want his lead to be sad and droopy eyed and attracting a legion of perverts?

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Because Elk's has forever ruined me with the awesomeness that is The Economist.
    The awesomeness? Is this sarcasm?

    SithDrummer on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    Oh, and this should be fun for you all: New York Times Magazine has an interesting profile on Chris Matthews.

    Can we point and laugh at him yet?

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    edited April 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    So long as we say goodbye to the double helix I'll be happy. Even if it's a lead well within moe, so long as he stays slightly above, good times.

    Let's hope so. I want Hill out just so we can start hitting Mccain. Yesterday's "hearing" should have been a shooting gallery between nominees Obama and Mccain, but instead Hillary being in the face fucked that angle up.

    No-Quarter on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Because Elk's has forever ruined me with the awesomeness that is The Economist.
    The awesomeness? Is this sarcasm?

    Nope, I rather like the newspaper.

    moniker on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Hillary face fucked

    are you trying to tell us something

    it's okay if you have the hots for her man, we won't judge

    MikeMan on
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited April 2008
    MikeMan wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Hillary face fucked

    are you trying to tell us something

    it's okay if you have the hots for her man, we won't judge

    I will.

    KalTorak on
This discussion has been closed.