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Vaginismus and Oral Sex
randomman
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So my girlfriend and I have recently engaged into sexual activities; we both kind of realized that she has vaginismus so we can't really do vaginal intercourse until we work that out. I've been walking her through and we've consulted a doctor about the condition, personally I am perfectly fine with it and I don't mind waiting. However in the meantime well this is what happened.. at least my version of it:
So the second time we had sex neither of us were really getting anything from it (which was caused by vaginismus which I mentioned earlier) so by the end of it both of us were getting kind of frustrated, so I was ready to end the session and just assume that there is something wrong. Then bam, she starts performing Fellatio (or a blow job) on me and kind of sprung it on me it was unexpected and she didn't really ask me if I wanted one. Not that I am really complaining I guess, it's just that I wasn't really expecting it, nor she really ask if I wanted one. So after that we found out about vaginismus and we both kind of agreed that we would do other methods of sex (Fellatio and hand jobs). But lately I've come to realize that she doesn't want Cunnilingus; we sat down and talked about it and she just said she didn't want it. So I got the idea that "oh well she isn't ready", yet she keeps giving me the Fellatio and so forth. I can understand how she is feeling with the whole vaginismus thing, but she almost refuses to "advance"; what I mean is well she really isn't doing what is recommended in order to treat it, and well she's probably afraid of doing anything like that since she thinks it will hurt.
So what should I do? We've already consulted a doctor, we know all there is to know about vaginismus. Also just as a note, I don't really have a desire to perform Cunnilingus simply to do it; I just feel kind of guilty for always being on the receiving end and never on the giving, as well I feel that it will help with the vaginismus as she will eventually get more comfortable with me.
So the second time we had sex neither of us were really getting anything from it (which was caused by vaginismus which I mentioned earlier) so by the end of it both of us were getting kind of frustrated, so I was ready to end the session and just assume that there is something wrong. Then bam, she starts performing Fellatio (or a blow job) on me and kind of sprung it on me it was unexpected and she didn't really ask me if I wanted one. Not that I am really complaining I guess, it's just that I wasn't really expecting it, nor she really ask if I wanted one. So after that we found out about vaginismus and we both kind of agreed that we would do other methods of sex (Fellatio and hand jobs). But lately I've come to realize that she doesn't want Cunnilingus; we sat down and talked about it and she just said she didn't want it. So I got the idea that "oh well she isn't ready", yet she keeps giving me the Fellatio and so forth. I can understand how she is feeling with the whole vaginismus thing, but she almost refuses to "advance"; what I mean is well she really isn't doing what is recommended in order to treat it, and well she's probably afraid of doing anything like that since she thinks it will hurt.
So what should I do? We've already consulted a doctor, we know all there is to know about vaginismus. Also just as a note, I don't really have a desire to perform Cunnilingus simply to do it; I just feel kind of guilty for always being on the receiving end and never on the giving, as well I feel that it will help with the vaginismus as she will eventually get more comfortable with me.
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She may very well be worried about the pain treatment will bring, but you need to stress that if it isn't addressed now it could get worse and then treatment will be even more painful. Talk to her man. You each need to get all your feelings out into the open and address them one at a time until you come to a solution and plan of action.
Well the thing is, I have talked to her about it. Every time I try to try to talk about anything of the sort she tends to change the subject, I tried to keep on topic but she makes it clear that she doesn't want to continue. Lately I've been not really "rejecting" more so of avoiding her attempts to give me head, not really sure how that will really work out.
And also I have been somewhat stressing that she should start the treatment soon and I have expressed how I feel about this whole ordeal. I don't really want to force her to do the treatment / rush her or well anything else, but I feel that if I don't do anything she will just avoid doing it entirely and just stay in the same position she is in now. As well the more I talk to her about it I just feel like I am just adding more pressure and tension to the situation, even though I really only want what's best for her, at the same time I tell her how I feel about it that it's "okay" and that "she shouldn't feel pressured and you shouldn't worry about how I feel so much".
Also, perhaps this is stating the obvious, but the article also mentions masturbation (and hence, growing more comfortable with her genitals), has she explored this route (excuse the pun)? From my sex ed classes and personal experience, many (most? I'm not qualified to make THAT assessment per se) women respond most strongly to stimulation of the clitoris and labia, which would be exterior to where vaginismus would affect anyway, or is she entirely uncomfortable with you even touching her in that regard (which given the reflex/pain association, would make sense)? The article also mentions that deeply seated beliefs that sex is wrong, dirty or sinful can also lead to such a condition, and would follow suit that she wouldn't be interested in receiving cunnilingus. Figuratively leaping to the option of fellatio may simply be her latching onto what she perhaps perceives as the 'lesser of two evils'?
I guess what I'm saying is this; having diagnosed the issue preventing you two from having a fulfilling sexual relationship, has she looked into identifying what might be the underlying cause of it, and begun (or continuing) to take steps to rectify it (in the sense that it seems she's unhappy with the status quo), or is this what you refer to in regards to beginning "treatement"?
Without knowing more about you or her, it's hard to say what the best course of action, but in your position I would likely just focus on letting her know how much I enjoy her company and being active with her sexually (in far less clinical terms, of course), and ease into things (in all manners of the term) at her own pace. Make sure she understands that there is nothing wrong or dirty about her, sex or pleasure (that you give her, she gives you, or you give yourselves), and that you don't want to do anything to her out of obligation, but because you want to make her feel as good as she makes you feel.
Sounds like a very difficult position to be in (and I don't envy her in the least for it), so best of luck.
In the first case, it was resolved through bondage of all things, for some reason being powerless and still safe while held in loving situation finally brought around a sense of trust. I'd say that was pretty unique, but I think the key of addressing the core issues regarding safety, trust and security through sexual play was what made it all possible. Not to mention the arousal, once it was established that a little pain never hurt anyone, a lot of the fear began to dissolve.
In the second case, well, it took a lot of time. Sessions were anywhere from 1.5 to three hours per, and between excessive rounds of making out, a lot of attention was paid to setting the tone around the perception of genital play. I'll give you a quick example:
"I love you, and everything about you is beautiful. Your lips, are beautiful. Your neck, is beautiful..." etc. Moving all around the body, one spot after another. The thoughts, feelings and words are genuine, with every repeat of the statement, I would find another attractive, well shaped part, and love it, with lips hands or my own sensitve skin. Occasionally, using the same tone as every other part, attention would be paid to specific areas of the genitals, 'these lips, are beautiful. Your clit, is so exquisite, I love the way it glistens, pink and shining, asking to be touched... etc' It was important to never linger, to never pay inordinate amounts of attention to those parts, but to simply include them as simple, unique features of the body as a whole.
I've often found that there can be a kind of detachment between the genitals, the anus, and the rest of the body. It's like theres an invisibility cloak or something down there when some women think about their bodies. Denial, bad thoughts, guilt, repression, whatever the cause, there are often issues with comfort and acceptance of the feelings those parts produce. As I've recently said elsewhere, there have to be connections drawn between the mind and the parts you want to accept sensation with, and so if there is a disconnection in thinking, the true feelings and sensations are not wholly felt and enjoyed by the person.
This specific method of reconnection was chosen to address many issues at the same time, self-conciousness, self-doubt, guilty thoughts, fear of pain, the non-thinking (as if those parts did nothing but perform waste removal functions), and to encourage the idea, that a person is more than just one part, that an experience is more than the end result. Moreover, love, trust, and appreciation, and a connectedness to myself as a person was built and rebuilt in a safe, comfortable situation. It was just a little under three months at 3-4 sessions a week, where the issue ceased to exist almost completely.
I say almost, because due to psychological 'extinction', occasionally a certain situation would spark the same instinctive reaction. In all cases, simply stopping, returning to a base neutral arousal method (ie, making out) and then slowly progressing forward again, eased the tension, allowed the other person to think and recognize thier reaction, and relax back into the situation as a whole. By 6 months, these occasional reflex reponses had completely dissapeared.
In any case, it seems to me that one or both of these things are happening:
A) She's not ready to have sex (for any of various reasons), which could cause the vaginismus to manifest and/or is causing her to not be interested in doing anything about it .
If A is the case, you'll have to figure out if it's anything you can overcome. If she doesn't want to talk to you about it, she may want to talk to a counselor or therapist or something. But it's really something she's going to have to decide on her own.
Yeah I see what you are saying, I've essentially been trying to do such but with no luck. Also the treatment is basically she has to gradually stick up to three of her own fingers into the vagina while masturbating. (Starting the use of tampons apparently help as well) Also yes she says she does masturbate and is comfortable with it.
Um.. also I think the cause of it could be that she has an extremely low tolerance for pain and tends to associate things with pain a lot quicker than most. Apparently the sexual experience with her last boyfriend was painful since reflecting back she realized that she had vaginismus back then and her past boyfriend
inadvertently made it worse.
that sounds pretty good, I want to say more on this.. but I seem to be lacking words.
Obviously this is an extreme. You guys should talk it out first and see if you can get around it.
Strangely, I think I've heard of something like this, except it involved using gradually larger cylinders (nothing use, we're talking starting with something the width of a pen and ending up around the average size of a penis) to aclimate the woman to the feeling of penetration, and gradually experiencing larger and larger objects until they were comfortable with the idea and actions involved in intercourse. It might've been during a college course, but I'll be damned if I can remember exactly where I heard about it. Fingers sound like an even better option, as I suppose it could be less intimidating than "today we're going to use this object that's really no bigger than my pinky, but to you looks like a 2L pop bottle".
A negative previous sexual experience will certainly be a challenge to overcome, but if she's working on it and you give her the love and understanding she needs, I hope you both find a little less frustration in time.
Agreed that this is an extreme. Anal sex isn't the most lovely thing to do, and if she is raging to find some euphoric experience from a sexual experience that she sees in porno or in movies, rushing it might not be the best answer. Try working on your cuddling and making the experience of the two of you being close in a bed enjoyable and comfortable to her. Planning for a pure orgasm is like planning on having a baby. Its not impossible but its not going to give you the immediate results you want.
Honestly, I would tell her, "We need to talk about this. When would be a good time for us to sit down and discuss things?" Let her pick a time and then stick to it, so she's not feeling broadsided by the conversation. Then, talk to her about what's going on in her head with regards to sex (not just intercourse, mind you, but any sexual stimulation), because right now, it sounds like she sees it as something she needs to do to keep you happy, not something she wants for herself. She may not even know what's going on with her mentally, in which case it'd be a good idea for her to talk to a therapist or counselor to sort out her feelings in a neutral setting.
Possible theories: the refusal to receive oral suggests either some past abuse or else that she is very, very uncomfortable with her own body, both of which could be a big part of the vaginismus. Does she let you manually stimulate her (as in, your fingers on her clit, no insertion)? If she really does masturbate, see if she'll let you follow along with your hand over hers, or else play a "simon says" sort of game where she does something she likes to herself and then you copy it. Presumably she doesn't associate her own touch with pain, so that might be a way for her to get her used to you touching her pleasurably.
This makes sense. Have you already tried this route yet ? Has she complained that she feels too much pressure for performance or for oral in any way ? Is there any issues that she feels rushed or that you feel rushed ?
I'd say more than "almost" certainly.
Seriously guys, stop being ridiculous. This situation most likely involves a significant amount of emotional baggage that's going to need to be resolved before you get back to the sexings, so instead of focusing on how to ensure enjoyable sex for the two of you, drop the idea for the time being and look at what the underlying issues here might be. This might be the sort of thing that ends up requiring professional help, and it might not, but unless you take a good long look at what might actually be happening in the background there, you're probably just going to make things worse.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Weirdly enough bondage helps a bit for me, someone mentioned it above, but having been in a situation of being powerless and abused, being powerless and loved, worshipped and adored is very healing thing. I'm not sure of the situation with your girlfriend or how open she'd be to it, but taking control (with very explicit, enthusiastic content) can relieve the pressure/shyness she might be feeling. Also, it's hot.
If she's not up for that, I suggest just taking things slow- I was weird about cunnilingus for a VERY long time because it's putting yourself in a very vulnerable and exposed state, and with all the personal concerns/cultural shame attached to girl parts, it can be a toughie at first. Mutual masturbation might be an idea as it allows for lots of relaxed kissing/touching/hugging throughout. You may want to consider involving toys such as a bullet vibrator as well. Just get her to a point where she's entirely trusting around you, can comfortably orgasm around you (and of course BECAUSE of you) and doesn't see sex as some prescribed act but something more fluid and exploratory.
THEN try the peen. But above all, communicate.
Agreed completely. I don't think all of us were trying to push that route. It just seems like there is so much medical backing and wiki backing of the situation that there was no real information of emotional backing in the situation. Not all of us are doctors to give medical advice, but it could be as simple as a case of two people that could be socially awkward trying to force something to fill an emotional hole in their lives resulting in a dissatisfied overall performance. I apologize if my questioning seemed to be along the lines of how to "get sex quicker" rather than more direct in the emotional connection being produced in the relationship. Really my direct question would be, what have you tried to make her feel comfortable in the relationship or for her to understand that this experience should wait till you are both comfortable with things going on ?
Basically, in this situation, it does sound like the OP's girlfriend could use a talk with a counselor. However, it doesn't mean he and she can't also work on the physical aspect. Helping her relax in sexual situations is going to be a big help. The other possibility is that she may not be ready for sex at all, in which case randomman needs to decide if he wants to wait around for her to be ready or seek someone who's closer to his own stage.
Later she became a skank, cheated on me with one of my best friends, and broke my fucking heart into a trillion tiny pieces that I am still trying to pick up and put back together to this day. So, maybe my advice isn't all that useful at all, really...
Anyways,
It seems to me that the cause is an extreme phobia to pain. Phobia is more than just being a little scared, it is an irrational fear. Irrational being the key word, here. I have a phobia of crossing bridges that span over water. It causes dizziness, my heart races, and intense feelings of panic. I can usually steel myself when driving over bridges by trying to think of other things, calm breathing techniques, and just trying my damnedest to relax. The same might be useful for your gf. If she has an irrational fear that she will feel pain, the nervousness will drive all thought of pleasure and intimacy from her mind, will cause her to not create vaginal lubricant and the clenching of her vaginal walls will cause you to force yourself into her, thus creating a very painful experience. You can help ease penetration by using lube. Get some KY Jelly. If she's nervous and is not generating her own lubricant, you will really need to provide some artificial lubricant.
Another thing, relating to my story, is to try and keep her mind off of penetration when when making out/fooling around. Massage her clitoris and inner thighs while masturbating her and see if you can keep her distracted and then try inserting a pinky finger. The thought process is not to be a jerk and go to town fingering her when she doesn't expect it, but to make it feel natural and not allow her to create mind to create suspense and apprehension. If you make a presentation of penetration ("okay, here we go. are you ready? 1, 2, 3...") it will only serve to build up tensions and make things much, much worse. It's like when they give shots to people who are afraid of needles. They say they'll go on 3 or 5, but actually go on 1 or 2. It's a delightful little trick to the brain because the individual builds up their nervousness and apprehension the closer it gets to the proposed time. By doing it when they don't expect it, you are denying them the ability to build undue stress.
Now, I wouldn't recommend you just go ahead and randomly do this. Ask her if she thinks that might help. She will know it is going to happen at some point, but the idea is that she will be distracted when it does happen so she won't have time to build stress over it. And I wouldn't recommend sticking with it either. ie: don't just take that as a cue to continue to finger her. Remove it, make out some more, roll around, etc, then do it again. The idea is baby steps and weening her away from the notion that penetration is painful. Also, lubrication really is very, very important. Penetration without lubricant, whether natural or artificial, will always be unpleasant.
Steam ID - BewilderedRonin
What have you done to emotionally support your girlfriend's decision ? Have you pressured her more or less ? Has she sought counsel in any way outside of medical ?
Well I guess I've kind of pressured her by saying she should see a doctor for council. Other than that I've been trying to be open and honest the best I can. I honestly don't mind that it could be a while and who knows it might never happen in our relationship (vaginal sex) and I've told her this. I've told her that she should work at it on her own pace, and when she's ready she's ready don't rush things; as well I've also let her know that I am not disappointed or angry or whatever other negative thing that someone could think. However despite my efforts I can still detect that she's feeling that I feel negatively towards the whole vaginismus thing... if that makes sense. I guess it's kind of like this: I feel that no matter how hard I try to convince her how I actually feel about this, I sense that she thinks that I am just saying such things in order to make her feel better... something like that.
Well recently we've become a little more comfortable with each other and well I haven't really thought about seeking counsel other than from a medical setting. (We're students so money is limited and well... the University Campus clinic seemed to be the best option, however she basically told us stuff we already knew) Basically I think the best way to approach this situation is to just keep telling her how I feel (which I stated above, that I am good and she shouldn't worry) and just take it slow and steady.
The thing is you are saying it to make her feel better. That is not to say you don't actually believe it as well, but she knows that you would like to have vaginal sex with her now, as opposed to some vague future. The harder you try to convince someone the less they listen.
In this case I think actions speak louder than words. If you are willing to wait, then kick back a bit. Let her come to you. When you are making out, let her be the one to initiate the more heavy contact (hands down pants, up shirts, whatever..). If she doesn't initiate that contact then be cool with it.
Be very careful how you tread in this situation. A lot of guys tend to go, "there's a problem, I'll fix it," and soon the problem becomes the focus of the relationship and not the other party and the relationship itself. This isn't a win/lose game. Be there for support.
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