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Turn this Guitar Zero into a Guitar Hero.
ElJeffe
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Yes, the thread title is bad and I should feel bad. Anyway.
So I picked up a guitar about a week ago (strictly speaking, I received it as a birthday present). Yes, I wanted one because of a year of Guitar Heroing and Rock Banding. Yes, I'm a dork. Shut up. At least I wasn't stupid enough to think that year of "experience" would mean fuck-all when I got my hands on a real guitar.
Anyway, I don't have a schedule or pocketbook amenable to taking private lessons, and so for at least the time being it's up to me to train myself. This is where you nice folks come in - I have a number of questions:
- The guitar kit I got (came with an amp and (shitty) tuner and pretty much everything else I needed sans stand or sheet music) has a nifty little DVD that contains some basic info on learning chords. I've semi-mastered the E, A and D power chords and major triads, can swap between them with little delay, and am now working on some new chords, including one (I think it's a G) that I don't think is possible without bathing in radioactive sludge until my fingers mutate and develop a couple extra joints, but whatever. Point being: I have no information on learning things like scales, or anything involving doing single notes (I'm sure there's a word for that). Suggestions on what I might do to rectify that? A friend of mine has what he describes as a pretty nifty set of do-it-yourself lessons, but he dropped something like $300 on it and I don't have that kind of money right now. Basically, once I exhaust my little Basic Chords For Dummies DVD, where should I go?
- Speaking of chords I can't do because my fingers are retarded, there are some chords I've tried - mostly things I've seen in the book of music I picked up (it's a selection of music from Rock Band - yes it was more expensive than it had any right to be, yes I'm a huge nerd for buying it, shut up) - that I just can't make my fingers do. Like, no matter how I position my fingers, I can't play the chord cleanly without partially muting some of the strings. Is playing some of this shit properly more about finger dexterity or more about proper finger placement? I mean, I didn't expect to be busting out Won't Get Fooled Again after a week of playing, but I was somewhat surprised to discover that I was physically incapable of playing even a single, isolated chord given 30 seconds to get my fingers in position.
- While I recognize that learning the basics of chords and whatnot is important, I'd also like to have some simple real song that I could practice learning to play all the way through. I can do some of the riffs (mostly non-chord stuff) from a few of the songs in my book - the bass intro to Are You Gonna Be My Girl, the intro to Wanted Dead Or Alive, and that's kinda neat, but it would be fun to play an entire song. Are there any really easy, really basic songs that I could realistically hope to learn to play at this early stage? I mean, I can pluck out a bunch of respectable kiddy songs on the high-E string, but that's not quite what I had in mind.
- How long should I expect it to take before I can actually play simple songs with relative competency? I play about 15-30 minutes a day, sometimes more, pending the demands of my hordelings. Are we talking a couple months before I no longer invariably suck at everything, or more like a year? I figure that having a realistic timeline here will help stave off frustration - if I just resign to it taking a year before I sound halfway decent, it'll help.
- Any other advice anyone can offer? Without the benefit of private lessons, should I expect to plateau pretty early, or is it possible to become a reasonably effective player without?
So I picked up a guitar about a week ago (strictly speaking, I received it as a birthday present). Yes, I wanted one because of a year of Guitar Heroing and Rock Banding. Yes, I'm a dork. Shut up. At least I wasn't stupid enough to think that year of "experience" would mean fuck-all when I got my hands on a real guitar.
Anyway, I don't have a schedule or pocketbook amenable to taking private lessons, and so for at least the time being it's up to me to train myself. This is where you nice folks come in - I have a number of questions:
- The guitar kit I got (came with an amp and (shitty) tuner and pretty much everything else I needed sans stand or sheet music) has a nifty little DVD that contains some basic info on learning chords. I've semi-mastered the E, A and D power chords and major triads, can swap between them with little delay, and am now working on some new chords, including one (I think it's a G) that I don't think is possible without bathing in radioactive sludge until my fingers mutate and develop a couple extra joints, but whatever. Point being: I have no information on learning things like scales, or anything involving doing single notes (I'm sure there's a word for that). Suggestions on what I might do to rectify that? A friend of mine has what he describes as a pretty nifty set of do-it-yourself lessons, but he dropped something like $300 on it and I don't have that kind of money right now. Basically, once I exhaust my little Basic Chords For Dummies DVD, where should I go?
- Speaking of chords I can't do because my fingers are retarded, there are some chords I've tried - mostly things I've seen in the book of music I picked up (it's a selection of music from Rock Band - yes it was more expensive than it had any right to be, yes I'm a huge nerd for buying it, shut up) - that I just can't make my fingers do. Like, no matter how I position my fingers, I can't play the chord cleanly without partially muting some of the strings. Is playing some of this shit properly more about finger dexterity or more about proper finger placement? I mean, I didn't expect to be busting out Won't Get Fooled Again after a week of playing, but I was somewhat surprised to discover that I was physically incapable of playing even a single, isolated chord given 30 seconds to get my fingers in position.
- While I recognize that learning the basics of chords and whatnot is important, I'd also like to have some simple real song that I could practice learning to play all the way through. I can do some of the riffs (mostly non-chord stuff) from a few of the songs in my book - the bass intro to Are You Gonna Be My Girl, the intro to Wanted Dead Or Alive, and that's kinda neat, but it would be fun to play an entire song. Are there any really easy, really basic songs that I could realistically hope to learn to play at this early stage? I mean, I can pluck out a bunch of respectable kiddy songs on the high-E string, but that's not quite what I had in mind.
- How long should I expect it to take before I can actually play simple songs with relative competency? I play about 15-30 minutes a day, sometimes more, pending the demands of my hordelings. Are we talking a couple months before I no longer invariably suck at everything, or more like a year? I figure that having a realistic timeline here will help stave off frustration - if I just resign to it taking a year before I sound halfway decent, it'll help.
- Any other advice anyone can offer? Without the benefit of private lessons, should I expect to plateau pretty early, or is it possible to become a reasonably effective player without?
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ElJeffe on
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For easy whole songs, I started out playing Blink-182, as they've got some riffs, and easy power chords, and it was just generally fun to play.
If you can be bothered, I would check out this: http://www.iwasdoingallright.com/ . It talks about (and aims to teach) developing your ears for music. I regret not doing this when I first started guitar, but it would probably infuriate me if all I wanted to do was to get a song down. I'm just putting it out if you wanted to maybe get better at learning songs by ear, or writing what's in your head.
Nirvana
If you can, get a guitar-playing friend to help you start out. He or she will be able to catch any bad habits that would otherwise form and mess with your ability to get on to intermediate/advanced levels of playing.
On average, with 30 minutes a day, I would expect about six months of practice until you can just knock out songs with relative ease.
For songs to look at, here's what I'm working on right now, having been playing for about 2 months.
Judas Priest - The Ripper: Lots of root-5th power chords. The main riff is pretty easy to play. The solo is pretty easy, too, and should be playable by the time you've got the dexterity/control to play the main riff well. There are a couple parts that I'm still working out the best way to play, but overall, a pretty simple song.
Anthrax - Madhouse: The solo won't be doable, but the rest really isn't too hard as long as you're not trying to play it full speed. This is probably beyond "playing for 1 week" level, but honestly, I was playing most of it after a month.
Twisted Sister - We're not gonna take it: The solo for this was the first thing I learned and it was after I had been playing about a week. The rest of it is pretty easy, too.
AC/DC - Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap: Just started playing with this one. Again, a pretty simple song, other than the solo.
I figured tabs would come up soon enough. I really would recommend keeping far, far away from them. Yeah, they're an easy way to learn songs, but it really is not the most constructive way to learn gutiar. You'd be much better served by either picking a simple song and trying to learn by ear or by picking up some sheet music and learning to read the notes properly. Tabs are very limited when it comes down to it, and I wish I hadn't personally invested as much time as I did in reading them in my early guitaring days.
I think the best thing to do is learn by ear. It's going to be a pain in the ass in the beginning, but the whole point is that the more you do it, the better you'll get. You'll also be improving your general knowledge of the sound of the guitar, knowing the distinct sound of each interval, etc.
I've got tons of friends attending Humber Music College here in Toronto, and lifting (ie: listening to a song and figuring out the notes by ear) is something you start doing from day one. If you are having trouble hearing the rythym or notes, you can try using Transcribe. You can slow down tracks without changing the pitch among other things.
Most importantly, keep practicing. Eventually, those impossible-to-wrangle chords will flow like smooth butter beneath your hands.
Even if you want to be a full on musician and make your money playing guitar, tabs are not bad. Only using tabs would be stupid, but they are still a useful tool. You can see a variety of possible ways to play the same thing, options that you may not have come up with on your own figuring it out by ear. They can help you figure out bits that you just aren't figuring out by ear, which is especially helpful when you're starting out an your ears aren't trained yet, as long as you don't purely rely on them. You can help your ear training out by looking at them after you think you've got something down by listening to it to compare what you think is correct to what others have recorded.
Would you tell a pianist or saxophone (my other instrument that I played for years) player that they shouldn't use sheet music because it will slow down their progress in learning to play from listening to songs? It's a tool that can be used in any number of ways depending on what your goals with music are.
As for songs to start playing, the first song I ever learned was Iron Man, much like everybody else here. Also, a good song to learn is The White Stripes - I Think I Smell A Rat. Also, Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit is also a fairly easy one to learn.
Also, can you maybe post the tabs you are having trouble fingering correctly? If it's a chord, you may be doing it wrong (as in say, not barring it, making it immensely difficult to play).
You've learned some power chords and triads already, good. Now try to learn as many of the basic chords as you can, and see if you can't start to see a "pattern" in the way chords are constructed. It'll help you when you start learning some of the more "complex" chords, like 7ths, sus2, sus4, that sort of thing.
The minute you can play the following set of chords (and move between them easily) you'll be able to play a lot of songs: E, A, D, G, C, F, Em, Am, Bm, Dm. In a lot of cases, when a song calls for a 7 (as in, C7, or F7, not to be confused with Cmaj7 or Fmaj7) you can often play the plain chord instead (C or F, in this case). It won't sound exactly like the original, but it'll let you fake it until you learn 7 chords, and I've seen many "EZ-guitar" books and such do similar things to make some songs easier to play.
There's also some common progressions that it might help you to know:
E -> A -> B is pretty common
G -> C -> D is even more common, especially in acoustic folk music.
C -> F -> G is less common, but also works well.
You'll find many simple songs that use these progressions, with some variations. For instance, making one or two of the chords minors will add a more downbeat color, adding in a 7 tends to make that chord sound unresolved, and maj7 chords tend to sound mysterious, or "floaty". That's my impression, anyway.
Then there's also Barre chords, which you'll do a lot of if you play electric rock. Just get used to making the E and A chord shapes without using your index finger, then move that shape up the neck and block off all the strings you're not already fretting at what would be the 0 position if you were fretting the chord in the "open" position. Some people can do a barre A chord using just their index to bar, and the middle finger to fret strings 2, 3 and 4 together. I still can't get my middle finger to bend enough that I don't accidentally touch the other strings, so I need all my fingers to do the same thing.
On tabs: if you're planning/hoping to one day play more "seriously", then don't spend too much time learning to read tabs, but otherwise, for the "casual" guitarist, they're great, as they illustrate how a particular piece is played much better than regular music notation could. It's not perfect, and it won't tell you exactly how your hand should be positioned, but it will at least tell you which string to use to play a particular note, something that regular notation can't do. Tabs are good if you want to learn to replicate a particular solo or lick perfectly.
The main problem with tabs is that they don't illustrate rhythm well, so you still have to hear the song to know when to play each note (or learn to read musical notation, and follow a hybrid tab, like the magazines and guitar books often have, with the musical notation on top, and the tab right below, with the notes all lined up.)
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You don't want to be that guy who can't follow along because he doesn't know any of the notes on the fretboard.
Aka "let's play a blues in C"
"what number is that?"
Ear training is absolutely crucial. Learning by ear will be excruciatingly slow at first, but eventually you'll be able to pick out licks and stuff like that in no time.
I don't plan to play professionally, or anything. I have a career and a family and I plan to keep them. I do want to be good, though. Not Eddie Van Halen good, but "damn that guy's not bad" good. I'd like to principally play covers of songs and sing along to entertain friends and family (though mostly for my own benefit - I'm the sort of guy who enjoys singing to himself when he's alone). I wouldn't mind writing my own music - songs for my daughter, simple stuff - but that's down the road.
I have what I would consider a very good sense of rhythm - I can pick out a beat and vocally mimic guitar riffs pretty ably, so once my fingers can find a chord I can keep the rhythm going well.
My goal is definitely to be able to read music down the road, but I know the limits of my attention span. If using tabs will allow me to play a few songs well enough in the short run, I will use that in order to keep morale up. I plan to learn to read notes more because I feel I should than because I know what I'm going to get out of it.
As to specific chords that I can't play, I can't recall specifically what ones were giving me trouble, but when I hunt them down I'll post.
Again, thanks for all the awesome advice, guys.
It really is a good guide, and it's about an hour long.
e - 2
B - 4
G - 2
D - 4
A - 2
E - X
That's the kind of thing you get from knowing a little more about the underlying music theory, although this is still very elementary.
Also, I know a real B7 sounds better and fuller. No need to flame me. ;-)
Check out my new blog: http://50wordstories.ca
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FWIW, I don't think I would ever care to play an existing song if I wasn't already familiar with the song. Sort of moot since I plan to learn to read music anyway, just clarifying my goals a bit.
The Creative Guitar books sound like they might be directed at someone who already knows what they're doing. Should I hold off on those for the time being until I learn some basics, or would they be good for a novice, as well?
It would be really useful to try and learn to tune it yourself. That said, I can't at all. But if you want a better (and just about free) tuner, go to any electronics store and get an adapter that turns your fat guitar cable plug into the one you find on a set of headphones. Then just plug it into your mic jack and use AP Tuner. There's other software out there too.
I will vouch for those books.
I bought them, and they are 10 flavors of awesome.
They'll teach you a lot on music theory and technique.
Stick with the books.
Oh, and some easy beginner songs, I recommend Creedence Clearwater Revival.
Bad Moon Rising, Who'll Stop the Rain, Have you Ever Seen the Rain, etc
They got a bunch, it's all simple chords and strumming patterns
They sound good and are fun to play along with
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find a program called tuxguitar (made for linux, has a windows version) it plays power tabs and guitar pro files. It is nice to learn by because you can hear how a song sounds, see the music notation, tabs and even a layout of the fretboard to help you out. I like picking songs as opposed to chords and strumming but that is a badass program.
you can get the files it runs off ultimate-guitar.com and if for some reason it wont run a .gp3 file, just rename it .gp4 and it will work prefectly
Didn't see anyone take a crack at this one, so I'll give it a shot.
Finger strength and dexterity will come with time. I had the same problem as you; it would take me 30 seconds just to set my fingers up for a C chord, then it would sound like garbage when I strummed. The music book you're learning your chords from should have finger positioning for everything, make sure you're following that. Also, make sure you're arching your fingers and hand enough so that you're not touching more than one string with a single digit.
The rest (being able to play clean chords, easily getting into position, etc.) will just come from practice. Lots practice. Practice switching from one chord to another, and don't be afraid to take up your whole practice session doing that. It's a little boring but it's the quickest way to nail chords. Your fingers are going to hurt a lot since this isn't exercise they're used to. Your fingertips will probably hurt worst, but once you develop calluses from pressing on the strings it's smooth sailing.
I'm going to second the suggestion that you find one of your buddies that already plays the guitar and have him guide you a little bit, too. Having someone to help you in person can save you the trouble of unlearning a bad habit.
They're both good no matter what really. Well written enough that you can read them on the bog. Creative Guitar isn't going to teach you any songs but regarding the actual mechanics and theory of playing it's the best book on guitar ever written. The acoustic guitar bible starts with the absolute basics and has tons of songs in it.
Anyway, another question: What's the functional difference between bending a note at the fret (by sliding the string over with your finger) versus using the whammy bar? Is it just that the whammy bar works for chords? Is there an advantage to doing one over the other? I know that the whammy bar is supposed to jack up your tuning right-quick - does bending the note at the fret mess it up less?
Whammy bars generally lower the pitch rather than raising it, which is what bending does. Bending isn't the same as sliding, bending is when you fret a note and then literally bend it, moving it towards your (stupid) face. Bending doesn't affect your tuning to anywhere near the degree that whammy bars do, is more precise, more versatile and more best.
Guitar manafacturers put whammy bars on non locked guitars as a joke, to see if anyone will try and use it. Take it off, put it away somewhere and forget about it. It is completely buttfuck useless. One day you might want to piss around with one, and you can get a special guitar to do so. Until then, ignore it. The purpose of a whammy bar is to allow onlookers to easily tell whether or not a guitarist is a tool or not.
So how exactly do you bend the string towards you? Like, you lift it off the fret? Doesn't that mute the note, effectively killing it?
It's hard, but you get used to it. Kind of an intermediate technique. Good string bends are the mark of moving up to intermediate guitar really. Kirk Hammet, for instance, can't do them.
What do you mean? Like a vibrato where you bend the note up and down in a rhythmic pattern? If that's what you're talking about, then yeah, real guitarists do it all the time. Jimmy Page made a career out of his bends and vibratos (and super awesome riffage). If you're talking about sliding your finger between two frets, then you are better of just doing hammer-ons and pull-offs in succession.
Note: Not all bends need to go toward your (stupid) face, at least when you are bending with the two strings closest to you (E & A). Also, don't be afraid to use your other fingers to help strengthen the bend. Say you want to bend a note up two frets, which might be a bit hard the thinner the strings get and the lower on the neck you go. So instead of say, bending with just your index finger on the fret, you should bend with your ring finger on the fret, and use your middle finger *and maybe index finger* to help achieve that bend.
Edit: CT covered the bending part, but it doesn't hurt to say it twice.
You've just described a string bend. Yes, it's used all the time.
Now, if you do it back and forth repeatedly, you're essentially creating a vibrato. Another way to do vibrato, as long you don't need the note to fluctuate by much more than a quarter-tone up or down, is to just rock your finger between the two frets, while pressing down a little harder than you do for a regular note. The pitch will fluctuate just a bit, but it will let you add some interesting expression to certain notes.
By the way, if you're going to practice bends, I recommend working on the second string (B, if you're using standard tuning) around the 12th fret. That's the string and position where it's easiest to bend, and you'll get some sweet notes around that area.
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I believe you're referring to vibrato, and yes, real guitarists use it quite a bit.
I feel compelled to mention, in addition to the websites and such, you should find and pick out some good simple finger-stretching exercises and play them religiously. Something along the lines of (quick tab off the top of my head):
D
1-2-3-4-1-3-4-5
A
1-2-3-4-1-3-4-5
E--1-2-3-4-1-3-4-5
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 etc.<-- fingers to use
And so on up the strings, then move it up one fret and do the same thing, continuing up the neck. Play slowly at first and let your hand get used to stretching your fingers out and try to keep your movements as loose and economical as possible.
There are better stretching exercises than this to learn, obviously. This is just a real basic one for sake of example (and one I actually started out with when I first started playing).
Warming up like this every time you sit down to play is absolutely paramount if you don't want to risk some kind of permanent hand problems later on down the road, just like stretching any other muscles prior to use.
By the way, this same example can also be used to teach good alternate picking technique. Pick each note seperately, with an alternating up and down motion, then gradually build speed.
"No.. I was wrong. This must be what going mad feels like."
If you're going left to right in the same fret, no, not really. That's classical vibrato and it doesn't really work on electric guitars. Sliding BETWEEN frets is worthwhile and real guitarists do it all the time. Contemporary vibrato is basically doing a small string bend back and forth.
Also, make sure your hand is positioned correctly, with your thumb in the middle of the neck of the guitar, not peeking over the top. It should look like this:
http://metallica-tabs.net/guitarlesson/lesson-legato.jpg
And the "Modern Guitar Method" from Berklee press is an astoundingly good way to learn guitar. It starts off really basic, but progresses into really, really advanced stuff eventually. Plus, the lessons are short and simple, one to two pages of music at most. (Another vote for Creative Guitar 1 and 2. They are also tremendous books).
You should also look in to Powertab and Guitar Pro. They're tab-reading programs, so you can go somewhere like http://www.ultimate-guitar.com, download the guitar pro/powertab version of a song you want to learn, and open it up and have the sheet music in front of you. Just make sure you disable the tab portion of these programs, so you don't become dependent on them.
I've had great success on both electric and acoustic guitars just pressing down on the note and kind of "rolling" my finger along the string, between the two frets. That's great when you only want a little vibrato that sounds a bit like when a singer holds a note and then vibrates it. It sounds very natural. Vibrato by sliding the string along the frets is harder to get right.
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I heard that some chords can or should be played by holding the 6th string (the low E, in case I got the numbering backwards) with your thumb. Is that an exception to the rule, or is it bad form?
Generally bad form, though Jimi Hendrix did it. It's up to you, but you shouldn't be playing say, the G chord like that.
Also, I should mention that the 'baseball grip' can and is effectively used in lots of blues, and actually makes playing some licks a bit easier.