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Imagine (aka, how to build a colony where you don't hate everyone)
electricitylikesme
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
This is a hypothetical thread about the construction of a suitably geographically disparate colony with the intention of creating a better operating society. Such a thing has been tried before back in the hey day of colonialism in Ethiopia. Last I recall I think everybody died. But nonetheless.
Now the problem with all of these types of threads is that you can't just have a blank slate when posing such a question - the answer is only meaningful if we can ground it in the real world, and it just so happens that such a colonial venture may be within our reach soon enough: the moon.
I say the moon, because presuming NASA does anything within the next 3 decades it may be to use the Constellation project to put a minor colony on the moon. I've taken this idea and run with it because of what was done with the concept in Richter 10 (a book), wherein a billionaire donates his money to a prominent scientist "to buy a new dream" - in this case, constructing a society which isn't a broken-ass libertopia.
Now, the reason I bring this up is because I want to know how you, D&D, would go about building a hypothetical moon-based colony such that it didn't suck. This question is essentially a reaction to the oddly popular theme in America of "my town is full of XX type of people, god I've got to get out of here". What types of people are allowed in your colony? How do you screen for them? How do you prevent them seizing democratic power if you don't screen for them, etc.
Now the problem with all of these types of threads is that you can't just have a blank slate when posing such a question - the answer is only meaningful if we can ground it in the real world, and it just so happens that such a colonial venture may be within our reach soon enough: the moon.
I say the moon, because presuming NASA does anything within the next 3 decades it may be to use the Constellation project to put a minor colony on the moon. I've taken this idea and run with it because of what was done with the concept in Richter 10 (a book), wherein a billionaire donates his money to a prominent scientist "to buy a new dream" - in this case, constructing a society which isn't a broken-ass libertopia.
Now, the reason I bring this up is because I want to know how you, D&D, would go about building a hypothetical moon-based colony such that it didn't suck. This question is essentially a reaction to the oddly popular theme in America of "my town is full of XX type of people, god I've got to get out of here". What types of people are allowed in your colony? How do you screen for them? How do you prevent them seizing democratic power if you don't screen for them, etc.
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It would work this time because it's on the moon.
Keep it all together with determinism.
And make sure everyone reads Nonzero. And The Moral Animal, for that matter.
Hell no, try Antarctica. If we can build a colony there, the moon will be a next logical step.
You see, unlike the moon, Antarctica has a lot to offer in terms of resources. The only reason to go to the moon is to get H3 in large quantities. Antarctica possibly has huge oil reserves and a lot of fresh water to support populations.
It's not really anything that can be helped. Nearly everyone has a self-serving bias. With the exception of depressed people, who coincidentally are very accurate in their appraisal of their own abilities in relation to other people. Anyhow, out-group bias is just an extension of self-serving bias. So, good luck trying to start a colony with depressed people.
More to the point, this sort of close-mindedness is what was prevalent in things like the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, Jonestown, and several other separatist movements that blew up in people's faces.
For a society to be sustainable, it must open itself to new people and new ideas. I think it'd be hard to do that with a small colony that is going to be extremely selective about who they let in.
Edit: I like this topic.
No one that would vote McCain over Clinton.
No fundies.
Pretty simple.
That's why you keep memes that specifically act to counteract that at the forefront of society.
Also, can we start this on Mars, where there exist the resources to support a civilization? The moon is a great place for telescopes, but it's pretty barren. I don't think being eternally dependent on Earth is going to help matters later on.
Let's just make it simple, how about no Americans?
As a libertarian paradise? Sure you could get a socialist one working, given how at the early stages in such an environment everyone will literally have to work their hardest to live together or everyone might die. Besides, assuming that we're going to establish some sort of society with contraception its not going to be hard to keep things at a population similar to those in Scandinavia which seems to do alright along sort of lines. Just possibly with less ridiculous alcohol taxes and weather that doesn't make people kill themselves if such a thing is possible (less so on the moon I feel).
I wouldn't let banks issue credit, but I'd have a state agency dedicated to loans and mortgages running from buying a first home to major industrial investment. I'm in charge and the economy will do what I say. Utilities, education, healthcare are all socialised but your free to start a private competitor if you want. Other than that, I'd pretty much just let people sort themselves out.
I might have a few government farms to make sure there's a basic food supply. Depends how many take-aways there are.
edit: No religion, it's just too much trouble. Besides, I should be their God.
Think Fallout.
Turns out the left really does hate democracy.
Dirty hippy.
I guess what I'm saying, then, is Hillary in '08.
As for actually screening for these people, I'd simply look at the surveys used in psychological research. Batteries for aggression, skepticism, reasoning questions like the LSAT, etc. Anything I saw as pertinent to the foundation of a new colony, I'd check the validity and reliability for and use it if it's up to snuff, likely aggregating them all into one massive test and adapting them to the same Lickert scale if at all possible. I don't think it'd be terribly difficult to create a valid test for the traits you're looking for with that method.
Why would that make us need more weapons? We're not going to be fighting moon beasts.
Also everyone has to take that test to determine if you're a sociopath, and if you fail you don't get to go to the moon.
I don't think it would be a major issue. I interpreted that as related to general supply, and a lunar colony by nature would be extremely different to anything on Earth. As such, it seems manifestly unwise to have weapons available (results are difficult to predict), with an example of a possible solution to self-defense issues being to have a quickly accessible isolation function with some variant on an inhalational hypnotic or paralytic. Not ideal, but one potential alternative to the threat of deadly force.
can...
can I come?
Would you kindly?
Advancement of the species must come at a price. We will walk in the places where man fears to tread, we will control our destiny.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
1: The automatic outs. The violents are gone, fundamentalists are gone. I'm fine with being religious, just as long as you can live with people not of your faith and basically let them do their thing while they let you do yours. But if you're going to be starting a holy war in my colony, stay out of my colony.
2: IQ test. We'll have to tailor it so it doesn't give a bias towards any one culture, or at the very least set aside a section tailored to an applicant's specific culture.
3: Personality test, including lie detector (never know). Tolerance is valued, willingness to learn is valued, not being a dick is valued most.
4: Plug the high scores in based on colony need. If I need a certain number of teachers, take the top scoring teachers in each needed subject until I run out of spots.
5: Also, since I'm trying for a global colony here, make sure that every country that has someone who passes the three qualifying tests is able to send at least one person (which should be no problem, seeing as I'd want to aim for a size of about 125,000- about the population of some random tiny Caribbean island. Small enough to manage, large enough to keep from too much groupthink.) Yes, if North Korea can pass someone through, they get at least one colonist. (The lie detector should be able to separate the Kim true believers- and you know Kim would try and sneak one through- from those who are going along with him out of fear for their lives.)
6: Aim for a low birthrate- I want to try and keep from a limited-size colony getting overpopulated and then having to deal with what to do with too many babies born in the colony. Just in case, though, any participating nation would have to agree to give birthright citizenship to any baby born of a colonial mother from their nation. (Why the mother? Why not?) This assures that the baby has somewhere to go in case of rule 7 below.
7: Should someone commit a heinous enough crime, they get booted out of the colony and sent back to their home country, who will deal with them based on their national justice system. Minor crimes will be dealt with within the colony, but you screw up badly enough and out you go.
8: If I can keep the birthrate low, continue to accept applicants based on need as people die off or are booted out. Keeps the idealist braintrust fresh, and sets colonial life up as something of a reward back on Earth, where the colonial representative at the door gets seen as a new and improved Prize Patrol. Which in turn encourages colonial ideals on Earth.
I assume that by the time applications begin to come in, the initial construction's already been completed.
Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine a utopia that isn't fairly authoritarian, thereby dooming itself to a downward spiral of megalomania.
The idea of the moon as a prison colony is actually kind of entertaining. Maybe someday there will be a movie where a moonman goes to New York City and says in a funny drawl, "That's not a flux capacitor. This is a flux capacitor."
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
You leave Australia out of this.
AKA, get a group more or less representative of the world's populations for your colony, then stick all the jerks in pod 6.
2. Reeducation to live solely for the needs of the colony.
3. Non-sentient AI programmed to command and control colonists to expand the colony and maintain it.
4. Dissenters sentenced to have their eyeballs removed via their anus.
5. Wake up, realize it was all a dream, cry and prepare the first Bloody Mary for the day.
Barkeep? White Russians and keep em' coming.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Science be praised!
I'd be down with that type of scientifically oriented colony, but only if I got a sweet DBZ type scouter to wear.
A few things.
1) I'm screening for citizens. I can, at will, try to reduce the amount of potential violent offenders, so nobody would have anything to defend themselves from.
2) One of the biggest contributors to criminal behavior is social inequity. Ideally, this colony would be as free of that as possible, and the other things that contribute to violent or criminal behavior.
3) As the population sees subsequent generations that will not be screened, but rather born in, law enforcement may or may not become a concern. Police with batons and stun guns in a community that is almost entirely insular would be effective. Nobody's going to have a gun, and actual weapons will be limited to prison shanks and the like. The law will focus on rehabilitation and education as a means to prevent recidivism, and parents that are screened as appropriate for the colony would likely impart the same values that got them in in the first place.