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compromising your growth by "just being yourself."
Xenocide Geek
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Registered User regular
fucked up thread title, right. i couldn't think of what else to call it.
i'm talking about the phenomenon of being "happy" with yourself, despite any flaws or failings you might have. i see this phenomenon occur quite often in this particular forum.
usually it involves topics like "oh i only have one friend, but i've come to realize that i don't need friends".
to me, thoughts like that stunt your growth as an individual.
in my opinion, people take solace in these thoughts, because otherwise it makes them feel bad. but shouldn't that bad feeling really be the motivator to cause you to grow, and not stay socially/intellectually/emotionally/whatever the fuck your problem is stunted?
my question is: shouldn't people feel bad about issues that are in their control to fix?
the general purpose of this thread was to really toss around whether or not this "compromise" was a good or bad thing. obviously, my opinion is that it's a pretty fucking cowardly way to approach a situation.
i'm talking about the phenomenon of being "happy" with yourself, despite any flaws or failings you might have. i see this phenomenon occur quite often in this particular forum.
usually it involves topics like "oh i only have one friend, but i've come to realize that i don't need friends".
to me, thoughts like that stunt your growth as an individual.
in my opinion, people take solace in these thoughts, because otherwise it makes them feel bad. but shouldn't that bad feeling really be the motivator to cause you to grow, and not stay socially/intellectually/emotionally/whatever the fuck your problem is stunted?
my question is: shouldn't people feel bad about issues that are in their control to fix?
the general purpose of this thread was to really toss around whether or not this "compromise" was a good or bad thing. obviously, my opinion is that it's a pretty fucking cowardly way to approach a situation.
i wanted love, i needed love
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
Xenocide Geek on
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Different things work for different people, I almost lost my best friend because I tried to push him out of mediocrity. I just had to step back and realize people do shit in their own time, or not at all.
Be content with the way others are, and then maybe self-contentment will follow.
Or something.
If you aren't then chances are good that you're a sheep.
Otherwise happiness is all that matters, unless their failure to grow skews important voting results.
Im happy having X friends because i dont really need friends is not a bad thing. Some people are social butterflys with lots of friends, others have a smaller group of friends. If i have X time to spend with friends and Y friends then simple math means the more friends i have the less i see them and less ican spend time with them in a 1 on 1 setting. Perhaps they prefer large parties whereas others might prefer 1 on 1. If a person has X free time, and that is the exact or close to amount of time they like to spend with friends they might be happy with one good friend. Or they might not be.
Some people can be happy with no friends. Should they say "ZOMG im below the accepted number of friends i must go out and make new friends" or continue doing whatever it is they are doing that they enjoy.
Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself.
- George Bernard Shaw
Sometimes words just get in the way of meaning.
here's an extreme:
you're illiterate, but you're happy with yourself. should you pursue a course of action that'll allow you to become literate?
here's something less extreme: there's a guy who's only hobby is video games. he works as a pizza delivery guy. he's 26 years old, he's never had a relationship, and he still lives in a room in his mother's house. and he's happy with how he is.
if you met this guy on the street, and knew all of his pertinent life details, would you say: go man, go! you're happy!
or: wise the fuck up, dude, that's no way to live.
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
The main issue here is what happens when his mom retires or dies.
let's use societal standards (as we americans view them) as my template for "better" change, for the moment.
in the case of people who are socially stunted, adhering to these standards (good hygiene, dressing OK, etc) would probably be a superior change.
it's not even about reaching potential, it's about even wanting to reach that potential.
i'm making a generalization here, but i think it's fair to say there is a large amount of people who would much rather play WoW all day (16 hours) than go out and have a social life.
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
--
Look, there's no objective "reaching for your potential is good" thing. Yeah, ambitious people see it as good, obviously. I'm all about trying to improve myself. But that's ME. I might want other people to be more like me, but there's nothing better or worse about one choice or another in any objective sense. If you think he would be happier seeking his potential, hey, sure. But the happiness is the only measurable good there.
Well now that just introduces a whole fuckton of problems doesn't it? Because by using one countries' social standards as the template you're basically calling every other country that differs flawed, which a few people would take issue with.
"Failure to read what is happening in another's soul is not easily seen as a cause of unhappiness; but those who fail to attend to the motions of their own soul are necessarily unhappy."
-Marcus Aurelius
don't these people who are content with doing nothing offer nothing to society? from that standpoint, they're doing us a disfavor by just being alive, especially if they're living in a country that values ideas and thoughts.
isn't somebody who's more willing to contribute to the welfare of society more worthy of living in a country that'll encourage free thought?
^that thought is really what is at the core of the idea of "compromise".
most of all, most of all
someone said true love was dead
but i'm bound to fall
bound to fall for you
oh what can i do
What happens when all the pizza boys decide to "improve" their lives and quit their jobs. No more pizza for you that's what.
That assumes the person CHOSE to be born, which is not the case. Being put into a situation not of one's choice (ie LIFE) is not like a work contract that tells you what to do to be a good employee.
I know I didn't sign any documents saying I must do X for organization Y to reach value Z.
And who decides what 'offers' are right and which are wrong? What if that person who does nothing would be a murderer otherwise? In that case it would be better they stay unmotivated, yes?
There is no mission statement to life, there are laws that everybody in society has to follow and other few responsibilities that you have to abide by in order to consider yourself a part of society. Nobody can tell you how many friends you need to have or dollars you need to make.
You could give any number of reasons, opinions, evidence to the contrary - we all know what kind of messages are out there - and yet we would be no further from the truth that it is all inconsequential nonsense. It's just the way things are going to be. Can it be a bad thing? Sure, but such is also true of the opposite: I know plenty of people who are pointlessly neurotic and attempt to carry the entire world on their shoulders just to make someone proud/feel a sense of accomplishment and eventually they'll reach a point in their life where they are who they are because of whatever awards or degrees they've gotten, their life will be commemorated by hollow prizes for climbing a ladder. On the other hand, some people will marginalize the entire world outside of their own self interests and live on the edge of their seat and create a rich life marked by all the people they've met along the way but find at some point that they've let some things slip through their fingers and maybe they haven't accomplished all the things they wanted.
Everybody needs to find a balance - that's something we all have to do on our own. You can't force people to change, hell, you can hardly help people change unless they really need to, and in most cases people don't face an impasse so large that change needs to be drastic and immediate, change is something gradual that we'll all endure at some point or another.
Look at yourself. Are you happy? Do you make others happy? If you aren't taking anything away from anyone, why does anything else matter? Human nature will invariably fill in much of the rest of the equation, mulling over 'worth' and 'growth' is just some stressful habit people get because for their entire life they're pushed from every direction and every source to make the best out of life, and some people believe that the 'best out of life' comes from a six-figure salary, and others maybe don't give two shits about money as long as they have enough to get by.
How are they doing us a disfavor by being alive?
Working as a pizza delivery guy he has:
1) Bought a car - helps the economy
2) Pays for insurance - again helps the economy
3) buys video games - hlping economy
etc, just the fact that he is buying things means he is contributing to society, it is what makes this world go 'round. Everyone can't be a doctor or cure cancer. The only people really doing us a disfavor by being alive are the ones who father many children and then abandon them or have lots of kids and go on welfare then stay home all day sleeping, like the kind you see on Maury etc.
Also, minimum wage here in california is about $250/week. Rent on a 1 bedroom apartment in a decent area is ~$1200, how is he going to be able to afford his own place to live, another $100-$400 for insurance, over $150/week for gas (I used to be a courier and my gas was about $200/week) and whatever it costs to go to school and be one of those few that actually 'contribute to a society of ideas' other than being one of the unwashed masses merely struggling to survive?
Man, my lifes dream would be to get a decent job earning over $35k/year, but it doesn't look like it's gonna happen anytime soon., and yeah, I do worry about what is gonna happen once my mom either retires or dies, in fact I stay up at night worrying about it sometimes. Before I losy my job I worked from 11am - 11pm and made less thank $20k/year.
However I don't want to say that we as a society should do anything but support a person's personal decisions unless they harm other people, ie voting, murder etc. Reinforcing the feelings of guilt a person may have is likely to just make them defensive and hence making change more difficult. So if a person feels guilty that's fine but it's also wrong for us to try and guilt trip them into changing.
I think the most important thing for any given person is their happiness. Its been my experience that one of the keys to happiness is to have goals and attain them. That doesn't mean someone has to advance their career or get more or 'better' friends.
If you feel obligated to push your friends to do things they don't seem comfortable doing, all that makes you is someone who isn't really a friend. I'm all for friendly encouragement and helping pick someone up if they've fallen down, but once you start forcing your values on other people I think you've crossed the line into 'asshole'.
Edit: And why are we using American values as the standard? I'm not so sure American values are so great and I'm confident that they don't accurately represent many culture's values (including many of the cultures contained within America).
Given what I've seen of things I'd have to sacrifice happiness in order to achieve success by "American-standards".
Hey, Fry did good!
Well, ok, he was 25 and technically he did have a gf who dumped him.
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So in this hypothetical thought experiment, what "pertinent life details" do I know? Do I know whether he wakes up in the morning and thinks, "Man. I can't wait to see my mom. Life is great!" or if there's a fleeting sense of, "I'm a loser and my life sucks," that he shoos away when he steps foot into the shower? Do I know, when he falls asleep at night, whether he drifts off happily reminiscing about the neat stuff he did that day or whether he fantasizes wistfully about the places he's never seen and the things he's never done because he's lacked the motivation? And do I know if his mom is simply happy having her son stay at home keeping her nest filled or if she feels a tension mounting up every day he fails to get his shit out and find a place of his own?
The devil is in those "pertinent life details" - how his actions affect the others around him and how they impact his own psychological well-being at the metaphorical and literal end of the day. But if I knew all of the little details about somebody's life, that would make me omniscient. That would make me God. But I'm not God, so I don't feel the need to go around judging the people I meet on the choices they make.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Exactly this. I can see where the OP is coming from, but only because I think a vast majority of people in situations similar to this are probably in denial, and just trying to convince themselves that they are happy with their life because they don't think they can change it. On the other hand, if they are truly content, then more fucking power to them. I don't think there's anything at all wrong with that.
So then is it conceited to apply our values to criminals and tell them that the way they live their life is wrong?
I get the feeling you are... new here. Please take some time to lurk, and preferably read some of the stickies on what this forum is about, and what not to do when attempting to debate. One of the things you should avoid is making a sickeningly bad strawman analogy.
And so on. But I mostly keep it pragmatic. I suck at socializing, and so I change myself so I'm more outgoing. It works, and things are better, so I'll keep doing it.
Criminals do harm to others. Unless you mean victimless crimes, which is a loaded question.
No, they invent a pizza machine that teleports pizza directly into the hands of those that are wanting it.
Why do you hate free pizza?!?!
but they're listening to every word I say
He's not always content with how his life is currently, but there's many mitigating factors to consider. His mother's useless and has recently gotten knocked up again. So he's the man of the house, not including various step-fathers that come and go, usually after procreating with his mother.
But he's definitely improving his lot, slowly, at his own pace. And anyway, he's absolutely content with where he's going, at least.