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My brother got bullied at soccer
Amigu
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Well basically I wanted some advice on this. My broter apparantly got pinned down and bullied at sccer practice the other day. He's 8 and it's the first time something like this has happened to him.
My immediate impulse is to go to his next game and verbally intimidate the kid to the point that he shits himself to get a bit of justice seen as I doubt anything was really done about the incident.
Actually that's really my only impulse to be honest. Is this really such a terrible idea? I wish someone would have done it for me when I was a kid and the one time my dad did it to a kid at school it worked wonders...
My immediate impulse is to go to his next game and verbally intimidate the kid to the point that he shits himself to get a bit of justice seen as I doubt anything was really done about the incident.
Actually that's really my only impulse to be honest. Is this really such a terrible idea? I wish someone would have done it for me when I was a kid and the one time my dad did it to a kid at school it worked wonders...
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That way he will get some confidence in his abilities to defend himself, get out of soccer practice for a while (or stay if he really wants to. I just don't think I'd want to go if the memory was still fresh in my mind), and be able to escape from being pinned down.
Plus, he might choke out the bully, and nothing stops them from being dicks like being unconscious.
First, teach him how to avoid or defuse situations like these before the get to pinnings and general humiliation. Ways to avoid conflict, or use words to keep things from getting out of hand.
And I realize that some kids are assholes and are specifically looking to antagonize and harm. So teach him ways of physically resisting or escaping if it comes to hands-on stuff. Look up Aikido manuevers and try it out in the back yard.
And lastly, if necessary, teach him how to fight.
I would also talk him through how he should make his decisions to avoid and minimize conflict. If he does X, then you do Y. If Y doesn't work, try W and Z. And so on. Give him a sort of branching tree of decisions so he knows what his options are before he gets to the point he has to make choices.
Included in all this the idea that he needs to tell authority figures about these things and let them rain down punishment as well.
Basically, I think it's important to teach him how to avoid and deal with conflicts on his own.
Knowing how to fight helps one avoid conflicts.
If he is able to confidently stand up to a bully on his own, he will stop getting buillied.
Telling the coach or another authority figure is good, but it won't necessarily solve a problem, and it won't help him if he's being backed up against a wall.
it's funny too, he's one of the most well adjusted and well to do people I know. He's just funny and does shit like that to get a reaction. It worked though hah.
That's what I would do. That stuff about learning to defend himself sounds like a copout on the part of adults to me, coming from someone who was bullied. It might help, but there are plenty of times it's not going to work.
I wasn't much of a fighter as a kid... I was against the notion of fighting at an early age, and as such I wasn't interested in learning how to defend myself in a fight. I got picked on a lot... but for some reason, one day this kid was shoving me and for some reason I blurted out "touch me again, big boy" and winked at him. The kid freaked out, called me a "fag"... but I'll tell you something, he never touched me again. Never looked at me again. It was quite effective. In fact, that defense mechanism worked damn well all throughout middle school.
Anyways, he'd have to weigh the options in his specific scenario and have some balls (or nothing left to lose) to try it, but this reverse psychology can be quite effective in the right situation. If you get a real bad homophobe with no one else around to stop/punish him if his freak out turns into a violent outlashing, it could be very bad... but if he's around his peers and adults that can punish him severely if he actually begins straight-up pounding on someone, odds are a quick comment like that would make him feel (A) extremely self-conscious (especially if he was sitting on top of your brother at the time, which when your brother points it out could snap the bully into the possibility of what it might look like to the people around him) and (B) extremely willing to do anything he can to make sure he doesn't get in that situation again with other people around. In the case of most kids I used the technique on, they were so socially embarrassed by even the thought of someone thinking that they were gay (or associated with someone gay) that they'd do their best to avoid me from that point on. Yeah, it's sad and homophobic... but abusing another persons' idiotic cultural biases to get out of a harmful situation feels much more rewarding to me than getting into a direct confrontation. With direct confrontation, even if you win you lose: you've made an enemy who might decide to "get you" in some other way. If you find a way to convince them that they want nothing to do with you, it's now THEY who choose to cut off the situation, and they don't want to "get you back" because they're just looking to save face and make sure that no one thinks you're associated with them.
Like I said though, this has a potential to backfire if it's the wrong person. If they're violently homophobic instead of merely "I'm an awkward and insecure prepubescent boy that wants to fit in with the social norm" homophobic, they might lash out... so it's worth some analysis before hand. But most kids, especially bullies, tend to be the sort that'll fall for this trap easily if done well. Basically you end up tricking them into not wanting to harm you (or have anything to do with you) anymore. Buyer beware on this advice though, I can't promise it'll work in all situations or areas of the country. Not meaning to be stereotypical myself, but I imagine you'd get more "backlash" scenarios if you're in - for example - the southern United States. In your case, you're in Australia... I have no idea what the culture is like there, sadly. You and/or he may have to analyze that for yourselves before considering this option. Do your homework to make sure it won't make things worse... as it'll only work if the target has a mild social prejudice and/or is fearful of losing face in front of his friends. If he has a violent level of social prejudice (such as a history of harming people simply because they're "different" than him) and/or would become violent in order to not lose face in front of his friends, this plan will not work and you'll need another option.
Anyways, he'd need to size up the situation to decide what kind of response he might get... I'm not saying that this'll work in every situation... but when this reverse psychology trick works, it works pretty much permanently. I can't promise it'd work... nor can I promise that it wouldn't backfire if it's under the wrong conditions... but consider it in the list of potential options, as perhaps a more risky but creative solution.
This is Glorious.
I would teach him how to defend himself and also how to avoid situations like these. Turning up to your brother's game and harassing the little shit isn't a good idea.
DO NOT fight your brother's battles. you'll be doing him more harm than the bullies. one of the most valuable lessons learned in life is taking care of yourself. yeah, he's 8 and you're living with him, but there will come a time when you're gone and he has to fend for himself. if he's come to rely on you in these situations, you won't be there to fight for him AND you won't be there to guide him. Guide him now so he can take care of himself then.
Talk with the coach about it. If he fights back, he'll get shat on by the coach. I got bullied back in grade school and couldn't do anything about it because the bullies were the teacher's pets and my poor, on-welfare white ass would have gotten expelled if I even raised my fist. Fuck, my brother got attacked by one of the special ed students while he was sitting in the library during a class out of nowhere, he didn't hit the kid back (just stood back up) and he got suspended for a week for 'fighting', while his attacker that physically punched him got in-school suspension for a day.
If the coach refuses to do anything about it, it's time for him to go find another team. He shouldn't have to fucking worry about learning to fight just to participate in a recreational sport.
I was bullied as a kid too, but I put a stop to it by standing up for myself. If the Op's brother learns how to defend himself (not necessarily the same thing as fighting back) he will be able to more confidently and effectively stand up to a bully.
I believe the proverb "Speak softly and carry a big stick" applies.
Bullies pick on people who are easy targets. If you stand up for yourself, you are no longer an easy target. Doing like VThornheart suggested or DarkSymphony suggested work as well because they are other ways of giving the bully more trouble than he wants to deal with.
The coach or other authority figures should be told, but that won't necessarily put a stop to it. It's not unheard of for kids to want to "get even" when there are no authority figures looking.
Intimidating the kid yourself is probably the worst idea. You shouldn't intervene unless you're actually witnessing it as it happens. Otherwise, people think you're just some asshole picking on a little kid. Again, the bully could also want to "get even" when you are not around to protect him.
If he tries to fight the bully and wins, the bully will just bring more of his friends next time and be even more violent.
If the brother comes by and threatens him, the brother could end up in jail or the kid's big brother will come attack -him-.
Telling the coach what the hell is going on makes the bully get punished by an adult. If the coach is indifferent, then that is not a healthy place for the kid to be and he needs to find another team.
Yeah, seriously. Got bullied at high school, fought back verbally, fought back physically, beat them at school sports, etc. Doesn't make a difference, thinking it's a case of beating them at their own game is catastrophically misunderstanding the motivations of the bully. It's also ultimately unsatisfying, you can humiliate them in front of the entire school and the shit just starts right up again the next day.
Shame, guilt, perhaps punishment by exclusion from things he enjoys and an understanding that that shit doesn't fly in the adult world is the way forward. Talk to the coach, tell him someone on his team is a bully. If he doesn't care, he's a rubbish coach, so pull your brother from the team because he won't get anything good out of it anyway or complain to whoever is above the coach that he's doing a piss-poor job of running the team.
Some of the advice above has to be taken with a grain of salt and mine too, such as Szech who speaks of high school bullying, remember these are 8 year olds. At that age I even remember bullies changing their ways after getting picked on themselves. High school certainly a different mind set, it seemed like one a group marked someone they didn't like that label never went away, and it was certainly a more vicious crowd.
Learning to fight is good in my opinion, but stuff like this must be avoided, "Plus, he might choke out the bully, and nothing stops them from being dicks like being unconscious" Teach an 8 year old to choke someone Munacra?! WTF an 8 year old does not have the mental capacity, understanding whatever you may call it to understand a maneuver as complex as choke holds. You are more likely to have your brother accidentally kill another kid by trying something stupid like this. A good old fashioned punch in the nose is more than adequate for the situation. Hitting the nose causes the eyes to well up with tears which is embarrassing, makes it hard to see after that for your opponent, and is quite unpleasant pain wise.
I know it sucks to just sit back and watch someone you love endure pain, but everyone goes through this growing up and must learn it on their own. Offer all the support and help you can without getting hands-on into the situation. That is unless the violence somehow escalates to something crazy like weapons, broken bones, etc... don't know what your area is like as I just took this as the average bullying that everyone must deal with growing up.
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On a more serious note, I've worked with a youth group where stuff like this happened. Teaching your brother to fight is just an escalation of arms. The best solution I've found is for an adult to intervene. Talk to the coach, ask him if he saw it happen. Ask him how many games/practices the perpetrator is going to be sidelined if they do it again. Ask him at what point he would remove the perpetrator from the team. Talk to the perpetrator's parents. Ask them the same questions.
If you are calm and polite talking to the coach and the parents and they don't respond well (i.e. try to bully you), petition to the league for them to be removed.
Yes, but are 8 year olds mentally and emotionally equipped to restrain themselves when not in a competition but emotionally stressed by an antagonizer?
The year later my cousin left for hischool so bullies came back. However, I defended my self, except not physically. I use witty remarks and I found that worked better than anything phsyical (unless you are built big, which if you were, you may not get bullied)
But every bully can be different. Some might be turned off by defending yourself, others will be enraged by it and they will bring more friends.]
You need to tell your brother to watch and study the bully to find out what will be most effective to make the bully back down (phsically defending yourself / fighting back, making remarks that the bully is gay or likes to make out with his sister, or perhaps going to a teacher (although I find this is generally NEVER a good idea since teachers cant do anything unless they actually witness it, and the bullies know this... It would be much better if your brother asks you to take care of it)
In class, he'll be told a thousand times to let the opponent go when he submits or is unconscious. Mental repetition and muscle memory will ingrain him with this habit. I believe grappling is safer for children, because a punch hurts more, and throwing one with improper from can injure your hand, even if it does collide with the bully's nose.
- Yeah, fighting isn't the solution to everything. If he's getting physically bullied however, fighting might well be the solution. It's still a last resort, mind.
Amigu - how old are you? If you're 15, 16 (or hell, 12, 13 is still a hell of a lot bigger than a 8 year-old) - go along to the next practice session or game, play the dad figure - shout encouragement, etc - if the bully knows your brother has got a bigger, scary older sibling he's likely to back off (bullies = cowards, etc). Your bro is more likely to want to go back if he knows you'll be there to protect him / intervene if the other kid if he steps out of line.
Other than that, talk to the coach - explain what happened, ask him what he did about it, and plans to do in the future. If you are 12, 13, this might be better done by your parents, if you're 15, 16 you should be able to deal with it and the coach will talk to you as an adult.
Also, martial arts aren't a bad idea. You could go with him if you could find a class for both age groups, make it a fun activity for both of you - if he can toss his older brother around a room a couple of punk bullies aren't going to scare him!
Bullies tend to like easy victims and go after the weak to intimidate rather than find a bigger guy and prove how tough they are. If your brother is ready to stand up to a bully, the bully will tend to find someone easier to pick on. The teaching to fight part is mostly about giving him the confidence to not back down with the side benefit of getting a few shots in if the bully decides to continue. If your brother has the right mouth on him, standing up verbally is nearly as effective as standing up physically, but it does require more skill pull off.
About the only thing you can do for your bother directly is what Seydlitz said about going to a practice or game and cheering him on. Don't threaten the bully.
As for going to the coach/parents, try to leave that as a last resort. It will probably stop the bullying, but you'll be depriving your brother of one of the most important experiences of growing up. There's a reason most adults can still remember the moments when they stood up for themselves (in one way or another) and stopped being bullied.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Aye, it was definitely a glorious moment in my youth.
This is not something he should just let his brother fend for himself. You said it yourself - kids tend not to do anything because of the intimidation. He's told his brother so far, but it may be hard for him to go through it again and tell the coach. At the least, he should accompany his brother.
There are "battles" that one should fight through by oneself, but he's 8 years old. He is not a damned Pokemon. 8 year olds do not have personal battles.
This isn't a bad idea either. He should go with his brother to talk to the coach. Lend him support and let him own his solution.
The Bully the Bullied and the Bystander: Barbara Coloroso
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Tongue Fu at School: Sam Horn
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I was bullied well through jr high and high school. Telling the teachers/counselors about it only made the problem worse; the bullies would get a "talking to" then take it out on me even more. I think it was the knife to my throat in 9th grade that made me stop talking to the teachers. Not sure how I made it through school but my depression was serious and I stopped caring about grades/achieving. The only thing that solved my bullying problem was Graduation.
All I can say is, support your brother, learn some skills to deal with bullying and teach them to him. Remember, "You can't teach what you don't know" (for example: if you've never done welding in your life how could you teach it to someone else.) Don't let bullies ruin his childhood or potential success.
This is where I was about to go. I didn't get bullied too much as a kid, but being in school you see it enough to know the psychology in most situations, you absolutely are asking for trouble by having standard adult intervention. Talk to the soccer coach with or without your brother and explain what is going on. Tell the coach to be on the lookout for future violent incidents but not to talk to the kid directly. If the coach happens upon this jerkoff kid sitting on your brother's face then absolutely he should intervene, but pulling the bully aside and going "you know, son, bullying is wrong" or punishing the bully in any way will likely just make the bullying worse and will not make your brother feel better. You need to support your brother and make him feel good about himself even beyond this. I knew kids who got bullied and just didn't care, and as time went on they just stopped being whatever it was that had them on the bully's radar and they were left alone.
Return violence rarely works outside of movies as near as I can see it. This isn't the fucking Karate Kid here, unless your brother manages to beat this bully within an inch of his life it probably won't change the situation much and really shouldn't be the suggested option here. I can't imagine anyone who is suggesting to kick the bully's ass has ever been in a situation like this where that worked.
That being said, martial arts as I understand it can be a very physically grounding experience that may help your brother be more confident in his life in general, so it's not a bad idea - just not a solution to this problem.
Do emphasize to your brother that this bully is likely a very unhappy, probably abused little shit and will probably spend the rest of his life in and out of jail. Tell your brother that he's better than that and he always will be.
When my brother offered his "assistance" I found it embarrassing and sort of insulting. I'd tell the coach.
I started doing Taekkyon Karate mid way through highschool, and it was great. We we taught the basic stances, punching, kicking, blocking, but the thing they put the most importance on for those just starting out was breaking free from someone's grip. They really emphasized the more passive methods, like where the weak points of different grips where, and how to use your weight and leverage to throw the guy holding you off balance so you can make a break for it. They even taught a few simple take downs. Sure, they teach you how to belt a guy up too, but early in the training they really drilled trying to resolve things without violence.
So, if you can get your brother into a class like this, where they don't just teach you how to fight, I think it could be really beneficial for him. Even if he decides he doesn't want to continue with it, they will hopefully have pushed a few important techniques he can use to get free if a bully gets hold of him.
At any rate, I really don't think learning to fight should ever really be the reaction to being bullied. Being able to kick someone's ass is great, I'm sure, but what happens when there are two, or three, or five people picking on you? Get him to talk to his coach. Learning to fight in one form or another could certainly be useful, but I don't think it's really viable as a knee jerk solution to this.
Atleast in my younger years the one to get bullied was usually the loner or the weird kid (this depends however, as weird kids can be popular as well).
Im not an expert on these fields but I would definately read up on it since the problem is actually quite complex. The goal is to not be that loner. As I see it, it's not that much of a physical strength thing, but more of a social status/ability thing.
PS. Do mind that Im not saying your little brother is totally socially handicapped but it needs aid like all kids do (perhaps in a different way).
Umm.... encouraging kids to fight their own battles is fine in like, 6th grade and higher, but this is an 8-YEAR OLD!!! If someone (even another kid) assaults an 8-year old, it's very much an adult's responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen again and take the problem to any other adults involved (like the coaches, etc.).
That aside, some of the most valuable things my dad ever taught me were the basics of fighting - how to make a fist, punch combos, etc. Nobody should be training an 8-year-old to take vengeance on a bully or anything, of course, but I found it was a lot easier to avoid physical confrontation once I was really confident in my ability to win a fight if it came to it. I still fought A LOT, but mine was sort of a freak case. As many actual fights as I was in, there were far more that ended once I put up my hands and assumed a stance - even the possibility of being hit back is often enough to stop a bully from escalating to a physical level, and confidence plays a big part in making you look like it won't be worth his time to fight you.
Playground wrestling and whatever aside, assault is no joke - if you can't defend yourself, someone could literally kill you, even if they only meant to rough you up or something. Despite the "no tolerance - defend yourself and you're expelled, if somebody is hitting you just let them do it until help arrives" policies at schools, I was never okay with not taking reasonable measures to defend myself, and my parents always supported that position (it never came up re: expulsion, luckily).
My kids will learn self-defence. They'll also learn to NEVER start a fight, ALWAYS look for ways to get away from a physical confrontation and to NEVER be afraid of being called a "tattletale" for getting help to avoid a fight, but they'll be able to hit back if they're being attacked. Pacifism and school rules are nice, but I'm not risking the possibility of serious injury or death to my kids in order to hold to those "ideals."
PS: It's also important to let your kid know that you're not the least bit ashamed of him if he does or does not fight back. He's not going to disappoint you for losing a fight or for not being "brave enough" to stand up to somebody. You don't want him to hide any problems like that from you because he's afraid of losing your respect - it's something that goes through a lot of kids' minds in situations like that, no matter how much you might think they know you better (assuming you really ARE a good parent, of course, and would not be ashamed of him for something like that).
I hear that - though my problems really dropped off more and more each successive year of high school, but jr. high was a nightmare - and I had a knife situation too (his friends crowded around me near his locker and he said he was taking a knife from his locker and was going to stab me, so when he reached in I slammed the door on his hand over and over until his friends moved to help him and I slipped out). If I didn't have good parents, some good friends who backed me up (many are friends I'd help hide bodies with today), and one good PE coach who saw what was happening and tried to help me out, unlike other teachers who didn't do anything, I might've done something really stupid. I hid a baseball bat in the bushes for the walk to/from school just in case, but it crossed my mind several times to bring my father's gun to school and put an end to the bullying for good - I'm glad I had the support system around me to stop me from going that far, and I know some people aren't nearly so lucky.
Secondly, if your brother gets protected somehow (by you, by teaching him to defend himself, or whatever), what's to stop these boys from just picking on a new kid? The coach also need to know what kind of kids he has on his team. At age 8, I assume these boys are just in it for fun and running around, nothing too serious. If anyone on that team is dreading going to practice because of bullying, then the bullies are ruining the fun and exerting control over the whole team. It is the coach's job to to control the team, and to teach sportsmanship. He also needs to know what is going on at his practices. If he's got some bad bullies on his team, the coach needs to tell the parents that their kids are not come back; that the good of the team comes before the malicious pleasure of the few.