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Football fans invade Manchester - and other problems in British culture today
oddment
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Registered User regular
So, I live in Manchester, and yesterday there was a UEFA Cup Final (Rangers vs some Russian side... I don't follow football) being held at the Man City stadium. For an overview of how the event went, here are a few news links.
Now, I had to take half a day off work yesterday to venture into the city centre in order to get some errands run (moving house, and forms needed to be dropped off and all that jazz). The tram was packed with Rangers fans, chanting and singing... that kind of stuff I can handle, no problems. Most of them reaked of alcohol though. We pulled into Manchester itself, and there was just a sea of blue shirts. Everywhere you looked. Parts of the city had been cordoned off to allow people to congregate there, with big screens to they could watch the game. Piccadilly Gardens was absolutely packed with people... I couldn't see the ground there... people were packed in there like sardines! I got off the tram and had to wade through crowds of people drinking openly in the streets (drinking in the streets is illegal in the UK) to get to the bank where I had to take £300 out in cash (credit reference fees... rip off or what... that is for 3 people though, not just me!). Once I had done that, I gripped my wallet tight, just in case. All you could hear in the streets were people shouting, chanting, singing. Every minute or so someone would let off an air horn, often right near me which would make me jump. People had crates of beer under their arms, giant bottles of cider. This is the middle of the day on a Wednesday. I felt sorry for anyone working in the city centre.
I decided to bypass some of the main street (Market Street) and took a shortcut down a few side streets, which people were using as public toilets. The smell of piss was overwhelming. Even in the main streets at places it was bad. I found the letting agents and got that sorted (the place was right near one of the big cordened off areas, and I had to be directed round barriers that actually made no sense in places... a massive pedestrian area had some kind of entrance patrolled by event organisers, who only let you in and out by going a certain way, even if no-one else was going in or out that way... and this is the centre of town!), and started on my way home. I live 15 minutes outside of the city centre, and as I walked, the streets got a bit quieter, though you could still see groups of Rangers fans. Every pub had them stood outside and probably crowded inside aswell. Even the pub across the road from me had Rangers fans turn up just before the game started, obviously ones who hadn't managed to find a place to watch it and had decided to venture a bit further afield. However, where I was, things weren't too bad, just a bit of chanting, which was to be expected.
I heard plenty of sirens and helicopters during the evening though, and my mum called me later on in the evening saying she had heard reports of violence, and one of the big screens breaking down and then being pelted with bottles by angry fans. This morning I read many news reports on the web and heard on the radio about all of the violence that went on last night, not to mention the mess that has been made (from pictures I've seen, it looks like a bomb has gone off, and any Mancunian can tell you they know what thats like after the IRA bomb 10 years ago). There were even cars overturned and shop windows smashed, and some reports of looting. Someone was stabbed at the main stadium itself. I mean, I just can't believe people can be like this. And then some people have the cheek to say 'Manchester should be ashamed!' and 'they weren't prepared for taking care of drunk people'. I don't believe it is our cities job to control the amount someone drinks (though Tesco certainly should be ashamed of themselves for selling very cheap beer and advertising it quite heavily). Once again, British football fans (probably a minority, but as the saying goes, the minority spoil it for the majority) disgrace themselves and ruin a city who hosted what should have been a nice event. A screen having technical problems should not be an excuse for people to turn violent. People should be able to moderate how much they drink. People should respect the place that they are visiting, especially on a work day when people are trying to go about their business and when children are about! I just think the entire thing is disgraceful. Some people are even claiming the police were heavy handed! From what I have seen and heard, they acted appropriately, and at any rate, police are there to keep things running smoothly and should be respected. They should not be pelted with bottles!
All in all, things like this make me ashamed to be British sometimes. It also makes me very angry. I may not have been born and bred in Manchester, but I really love this city, it is my home now, and I feel a sense of pride in living here. People trashing it and blaming us for the violence and mess just doesn't cut it.
Anyway, does anyone have any experience with last nights events, or any other incidents caused by football? What are your opinions? Discuss away!
Now, I had to take half a day off work yesterday to venture into the city centre in order to get some errands run (moving house, and forms needed to be dropped off and all that jazz). The tram was packed with Rangers fans, chanting and singing... that kind of stuff I can handle, no problems. Most of them reaked of alcohol though. We pulled into Manchester itself, and there was just a sea of blue shirts. Everywhere you looked. Parts of the city had been cordoned off to allow people to congregate there, with big screens to they could watch the game. Piccadilly Gardens was absolutely packed with people... I couldn't see the ground there... people were packed in there like sardines! I got off the tram and had to wade through crowds of people drinking openly in the streets (drinking in the streets is illegal in the UK) to get to the bank where I had to take £300 out in cash (credit reference fees... rip off or what... that is for 3 people though, not just me!). Once I had done that, I gripped my wallet tight, just in case. All you could hear in the streets were people shouting, chanting, singing. Every minute or so someone would let off an air horn, often right near me which would make me jump. People had crates of beer under their arms, giant bottles of cider. This is the middle of the day on a Wednesday. I felt sorry for anyone working in the city centre.
I decided to bypass some of the main street (Market Street) and took a shortcut down a few side streets, which people were using as public toilets. The smell of piss was overwhelming. Even in the main streets at places it was bad. I found the letting agents and got that sorted (the place was right near one of the big cordened off areas, and I had to be directed round barriers that actually made no sense in places... a massive pedestrian area had some kind of entrance patrolled by event organisers, who only let you in and out by going a certain way, even if no-one else was going in or out that way... and this is the centre of town!), and started on my way home. I live 15 minutes outside of the city centre, and as I walked, the streets got a bit quieter, though you could still see groups of Rangers fans. Every pub had them stood outside and probably crowded inside aswell. Even the pub across the road from me had Rangers fans turn up just before the game started, obviously ones who hadn't managed to find a place to watch it and had decided to venture a bit further afield. However, where I was, things weren't too bad, just a bit of chanting, which was to be expected.
I heard plenty of sirens and helicopters during the evening though, and my mum called me later on in the evening saying she had heard reports of violence, and one of the big screens breaking down and then being pelted with bottles by angry fans. This morning I read many news reports on the web and heard on the radio about all of the violence that went on last night, not to mention the mess that has been made (from pictures I've seen, it looks like a bomb has gone off, and any Mancunian can tell you they know what thats like after the IRA bomb 10 years ago). There were even cars overturned and shop windows smashed, and some reports of looting. Someone was stabbed at the main stadium itself. I mean, I just can't believe people can be like this. And then some people have the cheek to say 'Manchester should be ashamed!' and 'they weren't prepared for taking care of drunk people'. I don't believe it is our cities job to control the amount someone drinks (though Tesco certainly should be ashamed of themselves for selling very cheap beer and advertising it quite heavily). Once again, British football fans (probably a minority, but as the saying goes, the minority spoil it for the majority) disgrace themselves and ruin a city who hosted what should have been a nice event. A screen having technical problems should not be an excuse for people to turn violent. People should be able to moderate how much they drink. People should respect the place that they are visiting, especially on a work day when people are trying to go about their business and when children are about! I just think the entire thing is disgraceful. Some people are even claiming the police were heavy handed! From what I have seen and heard, they acted appropriately, and at any rate, police are there to keep things running smoothly and should be respected. They should not be pelted with bottles!
All in all, things like this make me ashamed to be British sometimes. It also makes me very angry. I may not have been born and bred in Manchester, but I really love this city, it is my home now, and I feel a sense of pride in living here. People trashing it and blaming us for the violence and mess just doesn't cut it.
Anyway, does anyone have any experience with last nights events, or any other incidents caused by football? What are your opinions? Discuss away!
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oddment on
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Totally stupid. I fucking hate football, but it's not even the sport I hate.
It's these cunts that make me hate it.
One of my collegues had to go into town this morning. He rang us up and told us that on Deansgate (which is a fair walk from where most of the violence and stuff happened) the streets were just littered with papers and bottle and all sorts. It's a complete state apparently. Sounds like the entire city centre has been turned into a dump. I don't envy the clean-up crew...
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1. It takes two to tango, and often when they've been abroad it's been the foreign fans who have antagonised them.
2. The Brits are used as a scapegoat to some degree. Other nationalities have fans that are just as bad, but are mistaken for being British or assumed to be British (this has been reported on before).
3. It's only a very small number of football fans. Still very shameful, though.
That aside, I'm not sure how much of this country's problems are due to merely rose-tinted spectacles of the older generations and fear-mongering any more. There's a rise of gang warfare, female-perpetrated violence and motiveless street attacks that's a little alarming even to a skeptic like me. A couple of teachers swear that the classes of teenagers they've been teaching have grown more aggressive and more lackadaisical in their approach to work over the past 5-6 years. Ineffectual teaching techniques? Resentment at their treatment in the media? Breakdown of family communications?
And yeah, our country has a lot of issues, but I'm not sure if we're fear mongering. We may be a little, but it just seems mad to me, all the violence, stabbings, etc that has been going on lately. Not only is there a rise in gang culture in urban areas, but there is a rise of ill-educated people with a lack of respect. Chavs, for want of a better word. I have had bad experiences with chavs in the past, and while I admit not all chavs are bad, I would say a large portion of them are. They have no respect for people or property... I've been spat at, pushed, sworn at, and even mugged by chavs. I've seen young mothers with many children swearing away and smoking, sometimes even drinking. There is just so much wrong with this country, and at the moment the government lack the abillity to properly tackle the issues. I do worry about our country...
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Children are eager to be adults, and adults are too eager to stay children.
The result is that we're currently breeding a generation of little bastards and I genuinly worry about the direction this country is going in.
0 tolerance needs to be enforced really, everythings too PC.
These days I'm wondering whether the famous "British Reserve" hasn't fled overseas. But like others have said, it's very easy to look at the past with rose tinted glasses. Perhaps people were always this way, it's just that they've got more opportunities and more publicity.
I always hate when I start to think that society might be getting worse, because a part of me knows that irrespective of what the actual reality may be, at least part of that impression is because of media scaremongering, and being unable to objectively compare with the past.
But it only takes so many events like this before a pattern becomes a trend. I really do think that the UK is starting to have a real binge drinking problem here. I just feel that things would have been far more in control this time around if the crowd hadn't been drinking since morning.
First part:
I do agree with the rose tinted specs, when people say, "where did chavs come from?" they were always around, you just didn't see them that much, world war 2 culled a lot and also the law was a lot stricter and family values were still in place, at the moment you see chavs pushing prams and you think to yourself that baby is going to grow up as a bad egg.
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The problem lies in the fact that the headline in every popular tabloid is going to read how girl crime is going up, and completely ignore the fact that overall crime is down. Increasing crime involving girls is still a problem to be tackled, but we also need to be able to acknowledge when problems are in fact getting better. In this respect the tabloid press only ever seems to aggravate the situation.
Yeah I know, obvious statement, but what the hey.
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Speaking of headlines and newspapers, I read an article online about Josef Fritzl (The Austrian guy who kept his daughter prisoner for 24 years and had six children with her ) And he explaned how he grew up under the Nazi government and learned that total control was the way to go, and when his daughter started going off the rails a little he got very obsessed and took way too much control over her. Doesn't excuse him, but I thought it was an intelligent self observation on his part.
The headline the next day of The Sun?
HITLER MADE ME DO IT
Dungeon monster says Hitler is to blame
off topic but ... god I hate the media.
I also see it was a few Scottish fans. Heh, and they always blame the English. :P
Not rose tinted specs at all. What I have to ask though is whether or not you consider yourself come from the same social background as them?
When I was a kid, yeah, I certainly didn't behave like that either. Neither did any of my friends, it was just standard. The thing is, I did know bratish kids and punks back when I was a kid as well. It's just that my social circles never really intersected with theirs.
It has always made me sad that this is the information source of choice for the majority of the public.
It's a sweeping unfair generalisation, but it's because of situations like these that it gets this reputation.
This is true, I wasn't from that social background really. But even so, I grew up in a town that is now a rather chavvy place. Back then, I was never ever aware of people like that there. Sure, there were mischevious kids who were dicks, but certainly not to the extent kids these days are.
It is a vicious circle for these children though. They are surrounded by people who are like that. Their parents, family, friends. They live in poor areas, etc. But not only do their parents not try and get themselves out of that situation (possibly a generalisation) and live on benefits, they also just perpetuate the same values and morals they have. The kids don't stand a chance really.
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Especially the parents!
Wow.
Maybe I shouldn't move there.
EDIT - Speaking of crappy parents, I knew a girl once wanted to get pregnant at 16, her reason?
"My mate has one"
Don't you dare say that! Manchester is a great place! Its just been trampled all over by 200,000 football fans... it doesn't happen too often. Plus, we're moving to a lovely area completely away from all that. I will come over there and drag you here if I have to! :x
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Yes, er. Welcome to Britain.
Now, I am from that social background and I thought I never remembered anything like this either. But every time I see one of these little kids I remember thinking "Wait...was I ever that bad?". Then you remember little things, like being 10 years old and hearing one of my classmates friends had stolen a car and set it on fire outside of a primary school. Or the time I got beaten up by a couple of kids four years older than me.
I don't think the difference in how people acted is really that massive, I think we're just better informed about it than we were back then.
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I hate the binge drinking culture that's developing in the UK, so much violence has its roots in excessive alcohol consumption.
I also can't stand how disrespectful we have become. I was coming home on the tram in Manchester a while ago, and there was a young man listening to very loud D&B on earphones. A young woman demanded he turned it off, but really rudely and agressively. He ignored her, but a couple of minutes later, after she got off, turned it down. I thanked him for doing so, and chatted to him about what he was listening to (asking which bands, he thought I meant genreD: - obviously D&B). He was fine. If she'd been more polite, he'd have cooperated straight away. But then, a woman was attacked by chavs on the same tram line, just a few weeks later. I don't just blame parents, I blame all of us - we should not tolerate crap, and should be more respectful to each other.
My daughter went into Manchester yesterday - she'd forgotten about the match - and came home early because town was so crowded and stank.
I've seen the news coverage today - my city is a mess, it will take ages to clear it up, who will pay for that, and who will pay for the policing of the match and its aftermath? There's another match next week, I hope the same doesn't happen again.
Summary:
I hate football, binge drinking, chavvy people, disrespectful people.
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"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Theres another match? A big one? Oh dear....
Yeah, I really wish I hadn't gone into town yesterday. It was just mad. I was very pleased once my £300 had been safely given to the letting agents though.
At one point, I was forced to walk in the road that cuts across Market Street (where the Pizza hut and Primark is) because there were lots of drunk people stood outside a pub, blocking the pavement. I had to weave my way through cars and hope I wouldn't get run over or pushed about by people who didn't seem to notice I was there, trying to get past them.
LewieP's Mummy, have you lived in Mancs all your life? I've only been here 2 years (though I used to come here back in my teens a lot too), but I feel such a bond with this city. It really has angered me, what went on last night.
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Teachers' hands are tied, too. Writing anything slightly negative on the school reports is frowned upon. Praise is lavished, but rarely meant, and the kids can usually see through it.
I kid I kid.
Just don't tell your parents! They'd freak out and lock you in your (non-existant) basement! Have they said anything to you about it yet?
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Haha. Sounds about right! She'll know my number now too... I hope she doesn't start calling me about it.
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So, I was wrong about the match - in that its in Moscow, and MCC have said today they aren't putting up big screens anywhere.
Oddment - I've lived here since I was 10, apart from 3 years in Birmingham at Uni. I love this city, but still think of West Cumbria as my home.
Also, this has got me thinking, I worked at the Commonwealth Games in Manchester, for 2 weeks, as a Guide Supervisor - you know, one of those people in the hideous purple outfits - there were hundreds of thousands of people from literally all over the world (Tongan men, be still my beating heart!), and no trouble at all. The closest I got to trouble when a cross old man didn't understand that his ticket was just for that afternoon's event at GMEX, not the whole day. After explaining lots, I just bought him another ticket, he was fine.
I think the difference was alcohol, pure and simple. What possesses people to start drinking first thing in the morning, and drink all day long? I know Russians and Glaswegians have a reputation for drinking, but without wanting to stereotype ...
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"The power of the weirdness compels me."