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Friend Complications
Red Gear
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Oh god I really truly apologize for how long this is.
At this point I'm not even sure what sort of help I'm asking for, I just needed to talk to someone about the entire situation. Really, anything would be helpful, questions, comments, advice, damnation for the hideously long post. I knew that the odds of Sam not having sex with this guy before me were low, but it is still something that is bothering me. Thanks in advance to those willing to read and respond.
First I guess I'll just get to what the situation is. One of my best friends and I have been dancing around the fact that our friendship is may or may not be open to something more. For an explanation that sheds the most light on the situation I've gotta go way back. From the middle point of my junior high school I have been best friends with (lets call her Sam) and Snyder. The 3 of us were inseparable throughout middle, and high school, however, during Sam's senior year (Snyder and I were a year below) I had a small falling out with her. One week Snyder calls me up saying he and a few of us are going to get together at his sister's house for some drinking and general good times. I show up and Sam and I end up talking for a long time and having a really heart-felt and honest reconnecting and ultimately re-kindle as best friends. Next week, the same plans are made due to everyone's enjoyment of last time. This night, Sam and I make out a few times throughout the night, but so is everyone, because I mean c'mon we are all horny teenagers at the time and its all just meaningless fun. Well Sam and I really start to enjoy how things are going and I end up fingering her and later that night we sneak away to a bed and fall asleep together.
Within the following days Sam and I talk about it and surprisingly neither of us feel awkward about what happened and both genuinely agree that we are really happy with what we did. So weeks go by and the exact same things go on for quite a while, but I start talking to a girl (lets name her Victoria) who is interested in me, and honestly, I have a thing for her two. Sam and I have both had a solid understanding that we both only think of each other as friends, we care deeply for each other and its fun to be with each other in a sexual context, but that it just feels like thats how our friendship works. Because of this there isn't any sort of problem or drama when Victoria and I start going on a few dates and what-not. Over the course of the rest of my junior year I go through some problems dealing with the fact that almost all my friends are graduating(including my now girlfriend, Victoria, and my best friend Sam) and because of this I start to push people away except for Victoria and Snyder.
Fast forward to around spring break between my first two semesters in college. Victoria and I are still dating and are considered to be in a serious relationship(despite both of us confessing to not wanting anything like that when we began dating) and I have realized that I am no longer, and have not been happy being with her and that it is only a matter of time until I work up the nerve to break her heart. Besides Victoria, the only people I talk to much from before college is Snyder, and occasionally Sam(although Sam and I barely had any contact at all during her first college year). While first semester of college was ultimately amazing, near the very end I begin to notice some feelings of dissatisfaction and begin to feel guilty for having another falling out with Sam, but also slightly with Snyder as well. Spring Break comes along and I get a call from Sam in which she invites me to come up with a bunch of old friends to visit her at school during my break and she tells me that she really misses me and hopes I come. So a few of us drive up to Sam's school and we all have an amazing time that serves as a big wake up call for me in a lot of ways that aren't important to this story. On the last night, however, Sam and I are out smoking and I ask her if she would like to take a shower with me after everyone falls asleep or passes out. She giggles excitedly and agrees enthusiastically so later that night we sneak away and sit on the bathroom floor talking for a good 30 - 45 minutes before we start the shower up. We make out for a while and just enjoy feeling each other before we perform oral sex on each other. We keep on just sort of playing around sexually until all the hot water runs out so we go to bed together.
Skip ahead to right about now, er a week ago or so. Victoria and I are no longer together, about 3 weeks before i was done with freshman year I broke it off, she was destroyed. I have been talking to Snyder and Sam more and more and the 3 of us have planned to spend a lot of time together in the few days that Sam will be back in town before she goes back to take some summer classes. The 9 days or so that pass are, in short possibly the most fun 9 days I have had in my life, but something catches me off guard early on into the week. Snyder and I are driving over to Sam's when he mentions to me that if finds it funny in a weird coincidental way that he and I are single for the first time in a while, and Sam has a boyfriend for the first time in a while. This, if anything, confuses me because 1.) Sam and I have talked a lot about how we both dislike incredibly the concept of relationships and 2.) Sam and I have been talking more lately than in the past, and occasionally have made references back to the shower. Needless to say, I find it surprising to hear from Snyder that theres a boyfriend, but that she also hasn't mentioned him to me.
Blah blah blah, the 9 days go by and are totally kick ass. The second to last night Snyder finds out he has to go in for work earlier than normal the next day so after a midnight outing to IHOP, Sam and I drop him off at his place and decide to go hang out at an abandoned play ground. We like going here because it serves as a good place to go hang out and talk at without having to worry about not being alone, plus its pouring tonight and we both really just like being out in the rain. We sit on the swings and talk a lot and generally have a really nice night catching up and laughing in the rain. I find out that she has been on a few dates with a guy. I ask her if she is still a virgin and she tells me she is and expresses her frustration about it over and over again, making reference to how ridiculous it is that Snyder and I have both had sex before her. She tells me about her sexual experiences with this guy, and I talk about mine with my ex. We talk about sex and relationships in general and we talk about our own past encounters with each other. She mentions that she hopes things work out with this guy because she really "wants to have sex with him ..... or someone" and then laughs. As the conversations start to wrap up we realize we are soaked and decide to leave. On the car ride back to my place I tell her that I really want to fool around with her again, but she has to tell me what exactly the boundaries are on that.
Sam says to me that its been all she could think about all week and that her and this guy aren't in anything concrete and that shes glad I asked because she really really likes it when we do anything sexual together. She drops me off at my place and we set a time to meet each other tomorrow to get a hotel room, because we (Sam, Snyder, ans myself) have decided we'd like to drink together without having to deal with any family or friends around. So the last night shows up and the 3 of us are having a great time together. It is quickly becoming one of the most memorable nights the 3 of us have had. It starts to get late (or early) and Sam and I both notice Snyder slowing down and getting comfortable in the hotel bed. We sneak outside to her car since we decide its the only place Snyder is sure not to hear us. Because of the uncomfortable location we only make out heavily and pleasure each other with our hands and fingers. Despite this, it is one of the best sexual experiences I have ever had. During and after this we talk some while till playing around a bit. I confess to her that I really really want to have sex with her, and she says the same thing. We both express our frustrating at the situation not lending itself to allowing that to happen, and us not just letting this out in the open sooner. She goes on to tell me that she has never actually orgasmed with anyone, but has no trouble orgasming by herself, but the first night we ever did anything together, almost 2 years ago was the one exception to that. We continue to sort of stay wrapped around each other for awhile and then she puts her pinkie up in front of me and smiles while promising that we will have sex one day. I laugh and wrap my pinky around hers and we kiss and decide that since the sun is rising we should probably get some sleep.
Today, Snyder gets in my car and some time passes and he tells me that he was talking to Sam and she said he should tell me that she had sex last night.
Within the following days Sam and I talk about it and surprisingly neither of us feel awkward about what happened and both genuinely agree that we are really happy with what we did. So weeks go by and the exact same things go on for quite a while, but I start talking to a girl (lets name her Victoria) who is interested in me, and honestly, I have a thing for her two. Sam and I have both had a solid understanding that we both only think of each other as friends, we care deeply for each other and its fun to be with each other in a sexual context, but that it just feels like thats how our friendship works. Because of this there isn't any sort of problem or drama when Victoria and I start going on a few dates and what-not. Over the course of the rest of my junior year I go through some problems dealing with the fact that almost all my friends are graduating(including my now girlfriend, Victoria, and my best friend Sam) and because of this I start to push people away except for Victoria and Snyder.
Fast forward to around spring break between my first two semesters in college. Victoria and I are still dating and are considered to be in a serious relationship(despite both of us confessing to not wanting anything like that when we began dating) and I have realized that I am no longer, and have not been happy being with her and that it is only a matter of time until I work up the nerve to break her heart. Besides Victoria, the only people I talk to much from before college is Snyder, and occasionally Sam(although Sam and I barely had any contact at all during her first college year). While first semester of college was ultimately amazing, near the very end I begin to notice some feelings of dissatisfaction and begin to feel guilty for having another falling out with Sam, but also slightly with Snyder as well. Spring Break comes along and I get a call from Sam in which she invites me to come up with a bunch of old friends to visit her at school during my break and she tells me that she really misses me and hopes I come. So a few of us drive up to Sam's school and we all have an amazing time that serves as a big wake up call for me in a lot of ways that aren't important to this story. On the last night, however, Sam and I are out smoking and I ask her if she would like to take a shower with me after everyone falls asleep or passes out. She giggles excitedly and agrees enthusiastically so later that night we sneak away and sit on the bathroom floor talking for a good 30 - 45 minutes before we start the shower up. We make out for a while and just enjoy feeling each other before we perform oral sex on each other. We keep on just sort of playing around sexually until all the hot water runs out so we go to bed together.
Skip ahead to right about now, er a week ago or so. Victoria and I are no longer together, about 3 weeks before i was done with freshman year I broke it off, she was destroyed. I have been talking to Snyder and Sam more and more and the 3 of us have planned to spend a lot of time together in the few days that Sam will be back in town before she goes back to take some summer classes. The 9 days or so that pass are, in short possibly the most fun 9 days I have had in my life, but something catches me off guard early on into the week. Snyder and I are driving over to Sam's when he mentions to me that if finds it funny in a weird coincidental way that he and I are single for the first time in a while, and Sam has a boyfriend for the first time in a while. This, if anything, confuses me because 1.) Sam and I have talked a lot about how we both dislike incredibly the concept of relationships and 2.) Sam and I have been talking more lately than in the past, and occasionally have made references back to the shower. Needless to say, I find it surprising to hear from Snyder that theres a boyfriend, but that she also hasn't mentioned him to me.
Blah blah blah, the 9 days go by and are totally kick ass. The second to last night Snyder finds out he has to go in for work earlier than normal the next day so after a midnight outing to IHOP, Sam and I drop him off at his place and decide to go hang out at an abandoned play ground. We like going here because it serves as a good place to go hang out and talk at without having to worry about not being alone, plus its pouring tonight and we both really just like being out in the rain. We sit on the swings and talk a lot and generally have a really nice night catching up and laughing in the rain. I find out that she has been on a few dates with a guy. I ask her if she is still a virgin and she tells me she is and expresses her frustration about it over and over again, making reference to how ridiculous it is that Snyder and I have both had sex before her. She tells me about her sexual experiences with this guy, and I talk about mine with my ex. We talk about sex and relationships in general and we talk about our own past encounters with each other. She mentions that she hopes things work out with this guy because she really "wants to have sex with him ..... or someone" and then laughs. As the conversations start to wrap up we realize we are soaked and decide to leave. On the car ride back to my place I tell her that I really want to fool around with her again, but she has to tell me what exactly the boundaries are on that.
Sam says to me that its been all she could think about all week and that her and this guy aren't in anything concrete and that shes glad I asked because she really really likes it when we do anything sexual together. She drops me off at my place and we set a time to meet each other tomorrow to get a hotel room, because we (Sam, Snyder, ans myself) have decided we'd like to drink together without having to deal with any family or friends around. So the last night shows up and the 3 of us are having a great time together. It is quickly becoming one of the most memorable nights the 3 of us have had. It starts to get late (or early) and Sam and I both notice Snyder slowing down and getting comfortable in the hotel bed. We sneak outside to her car since we decide its the only place Snyder is sure not to hear us. Because of the uncomfortable location we only make out heavily and pleasure each other with our hands and fingers. Despite this, it is one of the best sexual experiences I have ever had. During and after this we talk some while till playing around a bit. I confess to her that I really really want to have sex with her, and she says the same thing. We both express our frustrating at the situation not lending itself to allowing that to happen, and us not just letting this out in the open sooner. She goes on to tell me that she has never actually orgasmed with anyone, but has no trouble orgasming by herself, but the first night we ever did anything together, almost 2 years ago was the one exception to that. We continue to sort of stay wrapped around each other for awhile and then she puts her pinkie up in front of me and smiles while promising that we will have sex one day. I laugh and wrap my pinky around hers and we kiss and decide that since the sun is rising we should probably get some sleep.
Today, Snyder gets in my car and some time passes and he tells me that he was talking to Sam and she said he should tell me that she had sex last night.
At this point I'm not even sure what sort of help I'm asking for, I just needed to talk to someone about the entire situation. Really, anything would be helpful, questions, comments, advice, damnation for the hideously long post. I knew that the odds of Sam not having sex with this guy before me were low, but it is still something that is bothering me. Thanks in advance to those willing to read and respond.
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You should ask yourself: why am I letting her losing her virginity to another guy bother me so much? Bestfriends share certain special bonds, and yours and Sam's seems to mainly involve sexual activity (albeit an emotional level is there, too, obviously). So by her giving her virginity to another guy, you may see that as losing a significant chunk of that special bond - that shouldn't be the case, though, because you both seem to be able to connect at an emotional level, as well.
The situation from your point of view sounds like two things: A) You are interested in her at a level more than strictly sexually (i.e. girlfriend) or
My apologies if I was way off course
And it sounds like you could have been cheating on your ex, and Sam cheating on her boyfriend (if they were actually official) but I suppose if those are true - I'm not sure what you could've been expecting. For her to only fool around with you? It didn't seem to matter to you at all that she was getting involved in another guy...and it didn't matter for her, either. I just personally wonder sometimes if people who do things like this will really be all that "loyal" when any type of relationship is developing, let alone an emotional relationship.
It just sounds like she just wanted to have sex with "somebody", as she even said herself...and she didn't really care exactly who it would've been. I guess it happened with him because it could.
If this worries you, maybe you shouldn't have gotten involved with a friend-with-benefits who was considering another guy at the same time. I can't really tell if this is just purely sex-based either, or if you started to like her somehow on another level. That could be another part of it, obviously.
.........and she didn't sleep with Snyder, right? She slept with the other guy?
(oh and yes, NightDragon, her and Snyder certainly did not have sex, it was with the guy shes been sort of dating)
BRAWL FC: 0516 6975 3419
Pokeymanz FC:5327 6840 5195
Regardless, if you do end up sweating up the sheets, use protection- she's admitted to having another partner, so better to be safe than sorry.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
I'll admit to some confusion as to why she thought it would be a brilliant fucking idea for Snyder to tell you instead of her, but that's probably not even important.
1) She wasn't your first, so who cares. 2) Just because she has had sex once doesn't mean no one else can ever have sex with her again.. she's not incapable or impure or whatever now. 3) I think you're probably not goddamn stupid enough to have overlooked 1) and 2), so what's really going on here?
Strip away whatever resentment you may have going on right now, because it doesn't matter, and figure out what's underneath it. If you just want to be with her, then just go be with her. If it's just about sex, she's said she wants to do that with you, and probably still does. If it's some twisted idea that you can possess her somehow by being her first, then you don't get to have that anyway because it doesn't work that way.
It kinda seems like you need to figure out if this is about love or sex for you, because the first has separate implications and if it's only about the second it seems a little silly to get too worked up.
To me this sounds like buyer's remorse, or rather i-didn't-buy that remorse, because it looks like you could have solidified a sexual relationship with Sam at any given point, up to and including the playground conversation, and you chose to pass up on that, for whatever reasons you may have had at the time.
So now some other guy has gone and done what you refused to- and it sucks, because no doubt about it, you so could have been that guy.
Protip: The things we don't do in life can have just as much impact as the things we end up doing.
I don't really believe in I guess the idea of conventional relationships, and while most of my friends tend to agree with many of the reasons I have this position in the subject, Sam and I have talked a lot about it and pretty much agree whole-heartedly on the matter, so that also is affecting my ability to read my own feelings. I mean, essentially, shouldn't a relationship where to people care for, and understand each other to a great extent + sex = some sort of romantic relationship? If someone asked me that I really wouldn't know how to respond, sure, 9 times out of 10 that is going to constitute romantic relationship, but I personally, don't see anything wrong with friends who are close, also being close on a sexual level as well. I'm not sure how to describe this, but I have a very strong intuition that this is all on her mind as well, in the past I often would ask her something, or start a conversation, only to have Sam start off by saying how she has been thinking the same thing for awhile, or something to that effect. It is something that, eventually, I may talk to her about.
BRAWL FC: 0516 6975 3419
Pokeymanz FC:5327 6840 5195
In the above, both are right. You can indeed make a marked change in the relationship, give it clear yet unspoken boundaries, and alter your way of behaving so that the nature of the relationship, the nature of your honest communication changes. It's not hard to do, and many people do it because thats how they think relationships should be.
Other people hate definitions; they don't want some of the more intangible ways of acting, the feelings around hanging out with someone to change, just because there is a commitment or agreement of some level there. For some, a 'romantic' relationship, left undefined, is simply a great friend of the opposite sex you're attracted to and share some awesome sexytime with.
There's no need to be or act differently simply because the natural themes of a relationship are evolving. In good solid relationships, changing relationships, there doesn't have to be some magical switch that gets turned on. We use terms like 'friendship' or 'girlfriend' as if the definitions are black and white, but as you are discovering, they are really just words- the best fit to describe what is in actuality a vast fucking field of gray.
You don't need to be a slave to definition, though a surprisingly large number of people are more comfortable that way, you can choose to let what is be an unspoken mixture of terms and feelings. It's just that if you want to explain your sitch in as few words as possible to a friend, you're going to pick one or the other. Most likely you have several themes; friendship, honesty, commitment, personal value, all floating together, all changing bit by bit. It's very normal to have transitions overlap, or even dissolve if their progress is halted.
Maybe you're not the kind of person who has to put thier emotions into boxes one by one and clearly label them with Contents and a nice neat From: and To:.
What I would consider however, is the fact that her making out and going all the way with some other guy has bothered you. Maybe you should ask yourself if it bothers you more or less than only being able to share those kinds of times with her, giving up other similar opportunities elsewhere.
Love is not just one thing or one feeling- it is a theme, a melange of emotions, decisions, thoughts and feelings moving towards a common end. Sometimes, especially when a person is bright enough to differentiate between these different emotions, recognizing them individually, or rationalizing thier importance, love isn't a feeling at all, but rather a decision that has to be made.
Maybe your feelings are telling you that it's time to make a decision; you can choose to let these types of things go, because they are going to happen again, or you can act personally to do something about it.
As I mentioned in the offhand without explicitly saying, if you choose to do nothing, a random choice will be automatically selected for you. Life is always moving forward, you get stuck on pause and it will simply pass you by.
She is doing her own thing, going her own way, so there's no need to wait and hope.