The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
Please vote in the Forum Structure Poll. Polling will close at 2PM EST on January 21, 2025.

Making TV Better

MrMonroeMrMonroe passed outon the floor nowRegistered User regular
edited May 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
The topic of piracy has been gone over and over in these forums, and one point sticks out to me as generally uncontested:

People turn to pirated media because it is a more attractive product than the "real deal" to them, and several factors lead them to that conclusion.

With TV, I see there being a few points making piracy more attractive:

I don't want to pay for 24/7 access to a "premium" channel when I only care about one show. Why am I going to shell out for Sci/Fi when all I care about is BSG, or for Showtime when all I care about is Weeds? Even worse, why should I pay for 60-odd cable channels if all I cared about was Emeril and American Idol?

Commercials. TV has 'em, teh interwebs doesn't. 'Nuff said.

Availability: If I get home late and miss 15 minutes, I missed it on TV. It starts whenever I want to when I watch it online.

These are all obvious. What's equally obvious is the downsides: a pirated copy on youku.com isn't going to have the same picture and sound quality. It might be missing part of the file, might have video/audio sync problems, etc.

So here's my question: would you be willing to pay a nominal subscription fee per season to the producer of a show if it meant you could get high-definition downloads of each new episode as it came out and have access to older material at the same time? Let's say you could sign up for maybe $15-$35/season (I suppose it would have to be commensurate with whatever ad revenue they would have expected to generate per expected viewer on TV and I'm not sure how much that is) to get BSG online as it came out, along with access to the archive of the older seasons. Would you throw down the money? I think I'd pay up.

MrMonroe on

Posts

  • shutzshutz Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I'd pay about 1$ per episode. (multiply by the number of episodes in a season for the season price.) Regardless of the show. Any more seems unreasonable. And at that price, there better not be any embedded ads or unskippable trailers for other shows.

    One possible alternative: ask for maybe up to 2$ per episode, but give me a major discount later when I walk into a store and buy the DVDs, as in, half-off, at least.

    Another possible alternative: for a new show, put up a pilot episode for free download (in HD for those who want it.) Then open up pre-sales for the season pass, and announce a minimum threshold under which the show will not be made. Once the threshold is reached, you make the season, and those who paid get the episodes they paid for, possibly an hour or two before "air time" if the show is actually going to be broadcast.

    For returning series, you make the last season's final episode a free download a short while before the new season is up for "renewal" and you open up pre-orders, in the same way this worked for the pilot episode.

    This way, niche shows with die-hard fan-bases can be directly supported by their fans, instead of being hurt by the fact that advertisers are clueless about specialized but die-hard fan-bases. And shows which seem to have mass-appeal, but which, in the end, are only filler for the people who end up watching them, won't get as much direct funding, leading to those shows getting canceled.

    shutz on
    Creativity begets criticism.
    Check out my new blog: http://50wordstories.ca
    Also check out my old game design blog: http://stealmygamedesigns.blogspot.com
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Hulu.

    Adrien on
    tmkm.jpg
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I don't have cable TV, for all of the reasons pointed out in the OP.

    Here's what would turn me into a cable TV subscriber:

    - Allow me to pick and choose the channels I want without raping me in the ass. Right now, I can subscribe to digital cable at 25 - 60 cents per channel. Let me pick and choose my channels at 50 cents each and I'll be happy. I'm not going to spend $60/mo on a 'bundle' that has 90 channels I don't want and 10 channels I do, and still manages to lack 5 or 6 channels I'd really like.

    - Don't charge me per-episode. That is bullshit. Don't charge me per-show, either. If I'm going to spend money on a specific show, I'm gonna buy the DVDs. Sometimes I just want to pop the TV on and see what they're exploding on Discovery Channel today. I'm not going to spend $1 for the latest episode of Mythbusters.

    - I like On-Demand. I would pay a premium for it. I would pay even more if I could, at any time, access old episodes of any of the shows on the channels I subscribe to.

    - Commercials? I can take 'em or leave 'em. That's what mute buttons are for.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2008
    Any sort of pick-and-choose system would sentence 90% of the channels to death.

    That may be a good thing or a bad thing, but it's definitely the case. Right now the popular channels subsidize the unpopular channels. That's why each successive tier of a cable/satellite package includes 2 good channels and 30 channels you've never heard of.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    DVR's get rid of a lot of the issues of particular shows. Besides, telecomms and cable are starting to become the same thing thanks to the internet. TV shows and telephony are data same as anything else, so it's all just broadband in the end. In a half dozen years or so, things are going to sort themselves out and unlock some of the true potential of the interwebs.

    Convergence! or, your television is ringing.

    moniker on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Any sort of pick-and-choose system would sentence 90% of the channels to death.

    That may be a good thing or a bad thing, but it's definitely the case. Right now the popular channels subsidize the unpopular channels. That's why each successive tier of a cable/satellite package includes 2 good channels and 30 channels you've never heard of.

    Oh, I know.

    It just bugs me how there are always one or two channels I can't get unless I buy the $120/mo super deluxe package or whatnot. Like, I'd really like to have BBC America and MTV2, but not if I have to spend more than my car insurance premium to get them.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • caradrayancaradrayan Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    So, instead of dying now from not being picked, 90% of channels die later when cable simply stops being profitable? Seriously, let the market sort it out.

    caradrayan on
  • RandomEngyRandomEngy Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Offer individual episode downloads, or season downloads cheaper than you can get on DVD. Use P2P assists if you have to. Make all TV show pilots free. Don't shove DRM on them, just make them straight up H.264-AAC MP4 files. Allow watching while downloading. Make a thin client that automatically downloads new shows, with a companion website that lists all your upcoming episodes, lists new shows, etc, that contain application links to subscribe to new shows, buy individual episodes, etc. Make a media player an optional component of this client to play back your files. Even better, open the API to let people write their own UI for it.

    Then, put every single show/movie you can possibly think of on the service. Don't get lazy, go into back archives and have everything.

    Then make a set-top box that you can hook up to your network that acts live a Tivo on crack. Have it automatically offer a share of all the downloaded episodes so people can back them up.

    A man can dream...

    RandomEngy on
    Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I think the television model could use some revamping. Show subscriptions at $30 a season for an HD, DRM-free direct download seems like it'd be fine, as does the option of paying $2 a channel (or more for premium stuff like HBO). The model they have will not continue to work for long, and it's been around for a hundred years.

    Salvation122 on
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    I don't have cable TV, for all of the reasons pointed out in the OP.

    I don't have cable either; I think non-subscribers are in the extreme minority in the U.S., most people will go ahead and pay $50-100/month for cable eventhough they are only really interested in 10 or 12 channels. There's no reason for the cable companies to do a-la-carte cable just so they can capture the tiny revenue stream from those who've opted out of cable entirely. Add to that a bunch of existing subscribers would probably cut their plan down (cause they'd have that ability with a-la-carte cable).

    Assuming the average cable watcher is only interested in 10-15 channels, the going rate per channel for a-la-carte cable is likely $3-5.

    edit: non-subscribers who are interested but opt out, as opposed to non-subscribers who just aren't into TV or cannot afford cable.

    Djeet on
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I just checked out Hulu for the first time. I found the interface, especially the search function, severely lacking.

    TL DR on
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    What about 8$ a month for your favorite channel, with all of the episodes catalogued and free to download to your computer? What if you throw in (just for you, because we want to keep you as a valued customer!) a one-time-only 4$/ month for access to these 3 related channels over here?

    The porn model is probably where the business will go

    MikeMcSomething on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Really? I've had no trouble with it.

    Quid on
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Basically what this is demonstrating is that a single model won't service everyone. Multiple delivery methods would be the best direction to move in.

    And yes, I would probably also pay a nominal sum per month for one particular channel straight to my PC. The thing is, TV channels have two sources of income: advertising + the payments of cable providers. In order to offset that as a direct to drive internet service, it would have to cost enough to offset both of these expenses.

    Now quick, someone get promoted to CEO of NBC, Showtime, HBO, and Time-Warner. GO!

    MrMonroe on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    What about 8$ a month for your favorite channel, with all of the episodes catalogued and free to download to your computer? What if you throw in (just for you, because we want to keep you as a valued customer!) a one-time-only 4$/ month for access to these 3 related channels over here?

    The porn model is probably where the business will go

    Porn and poker, eternally blazing a path forward on the internet.

    moniker on
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I like the alacarte system. The way I envision it is this:

    *Start with the 'free' stations: the networks, PBS, and any network provided free (and there are some- C-SPAN is an example).
    *You get this catalog of channels, with the prices asked for each channel. The networks are appealing to you directly instead of the cable company, so it pays for them to not artificially inflate prices. (Most channels, from what I see, would come in at under a buck a month, and there's the occasional gem that comes in under a quarter a month. It's the ESPN empire, mainly, as well as a few others, that are causing the pain. The more ESPN you can cut out of your life, the better off you'll end up.)
    *Total up the prices of the channels, add in whatever taxes and stuff need to be added (which would have to be mentioned in the catalog) and that's your cable bill.

    EDIT: Dammit, I know I saw a chart somewhere, I can't find it again.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • MikeMcSomethingMikeMcSomething Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The porn analogy wasn't a joke, it's a good example of how much it would cost for a network to provide episodic (is that a word?) content, with a discount for paying related networks.

    If you were to remove most of the infrastructure behind, say, HBO, you would suddenly have to pay significantly more than (monthly bill divided by number of channels) for just HBO. You would pay even more if you didn't want commercials.

    MikeMcSomething on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    It doesn't seem unlikely that it could lead to what netflix has now, only larger scale. You pay so much a month and you can download so many hours of IPTV. You can choose to watch one episode of every series ever, or all the episodes of a handfull of series that you actually like.

    moniker on
  • TreelootTreeloot Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Let's say you could sign up for maybe $15-$35/season (I suppose it would have to be commensurate with whatever ad revenue they would have expected to generate per expected viewer on TV and I'm not sure how much that is) to get BSG online as it came out, along with access to the archive of the older seasons. Would you throw down the money? I think I'd pay up.

    If it weren't for sports programming, I would consider doing this if it ended up being cheaper than cable.

    Treeloot on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2008
    I'd say the best way is an all-points hybrid relying on the long tail. Cable will have to change to a la carte, but channels will stick around because time is money, so people will buy at a roughly equal rate to that aty which they watch, so that any channel that can now get advertisers will stay around. Th pricing model would be a flat basic rate plus additional costs for each channel and expanded "bandwidth" (the extra equipment needed for larger numbers of channels).
    Over the internet, there will be two options: a free, advertisement and merchandise based one, which will have good but not great quality. It would be delivered via streaming video (that's what YouTube is, right) on sites with advertising banners at a quality level generally a bit better than YouTube, but not so high as to take too long or choke up computers (I've noticed that, at least on my computer, the video will register as fully loaded at random points, especially on high quality videos [although it might just have been the video]).
    The second internet option would be to pay to download a full-quality version, essentially the same thing as on T.V. w/o the commercials.

    I should note that my preference is partly shaped by my lack of credit card and my unwillingness to give out my hypothetical credit card number.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
Sign In or Register to comment.