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[Australia] Opt-out organ donation
Dhalphir
don't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
don't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
been reading in the paper over the past couple weeks about the proposal put forth by the WA government for a switch in the way our organ donation system works.
Currently, the system we have is an "opt-in" system. If you wish to become an organ donor, you register with Medicare, and then in the event of your death, your organs are made available.
What the government is proposing is changing to an "opt-out" system, where everyone is automatically considered to be a donor unless they opt out.
The reasoning behind this is that there are probably a lot of people who, although they would be perfectly happy to donate their organs, just never get around to registering as a donor.
Personally, I think this is a really good idea. I'm registered as a donor, and I know a couple of my friends who expressed idle interest in becoming a donor when I mentioned I was considering it, but they probably never registered.
What do you guys think?
Currently, the system we have is an "opt-in" system. If you wish to become an organ donor, you register with Medicare, and then in the event of your death, your organs are made available.
What the government is proposing is changing to an "opt-out" system, where everyone is automatically considered to be a donor unless they opt out.
The reasoning behind this is that there are probably a lot of people who, although they would be perfectly happy to donate their organs, just never get around to registering as a donor.
Personally, I think this is a really good idea. I'm registered as a donor, and I know a couple of my friends who expressed idle interest in becoming a donor when I mentioned I was considering it, but they probably never registered.
What do you guys think?
Dhalphir on
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I know that I want to donate my organs, I just haven't had the paperwork done. I donate blood and have got the paperwork together to donate bone marrow.
there was a letter, that, paraphrased, said
My body is my own. No government or body has the right to force me to part with my organs, it is one of the few unalienable rights we should have
This seems to be the prevailing argument that all people not in favour of the opt-out favour.
They obviously haven't considered the blindingly obvious counter-point to that.
OPT OUT.
I'm already registered as an organ donor.
a friend of my mother's was ranting to me today, saying "well I WAS going to become an organ donor but if they bring in this compulsory system, I'll opt out just on principle!". I felt like punching her. Instead I asked why she felt the need to deny people life-saving organs "on principle". She didn't respond.
I'd go with this. And include an annoying/guilt inducing 'would you like me to check the organ donor box on the back' question by the bureaucrat at the DMV/courthouse. While the principle is wonderful in theory, there are issues that would arise from people who didn't know to/care to opt out and really liked their kidney. Or are really religious and want to be buried with all their organs. Making it require virtually no effort to opt in avoids all those problems.
And I am an organ donor.
Judaism has some issues with organ transplants. Some sects say it's only okay if it's done after the person is deceased defined by a lack of activity in the brain stem, and some condemn it entirely.
So, to answer your question, fun for whoever has to clean up the mess when people complain that their religion is being persecuted.
Such a morbid practice.
Either way, I hear some people have prosthetic eyes nowadays. Shouldn't your eyes be closed anyway? Can't they just drop a pair of marbles in and flip your lids down and call it a day?
Yes, it'll be terrible for people with religious convictions against donating organs. If only there was some sort of system where, oh I don't know, you could opt out of the whole organ donation thing if they really find it so abhorrent.
As long as people who do wish to opt out can do so quickly and easily I don't see a problem.
Edit: that was in response to road block
(but you probably already guessed that)
Accomodating for religious people has never stopped them from bitching before.
Mind you, that's happened even with opt-in systems. Anyone remember that kid in... Long Island, was it? They thought he'd died of meningitis, and several organs went out to people, and then those people all got what actually killed him - a rapid-onset cancer. At least one of the four died as well
Aren't all donated organs screened already? even with the opt in program plenty of people that try to donate could still have problems that stop them from donating.
I would think the net benefits of having more organs to distribute would outweigh the consequences. Especially if the donor had a decent medical history.
Yeah, but with opt-in you can test further ahead of time, and people who know they have a family history of, say, cystic fibrosis, tend to avoid registering. If the screening tests only took an hour or two it'd be no problem, but I know some of them take up to a full day.
That said, I can't agree with the idea of an opt-out system. Organ donation is a gift, and a hell of a gift at that given that someone has chosen to give up their body an allow it to be given away to others after their death. An opt-in system, by default, respects the wishes of those who, for whatever reason, don't wish to be donars while allowing those who do to make the choice to make a gift.
An opt-out system by default doesn't pay attention to the possible wishes or beliefs of the individual and assumes a right to their bodies from birth, unless that person has chosen to claim their rights to their own body. People shouldn't have to worry about their body being respected after death (both for themself and their relatives), that's a basic right everyone should be entitled to.
Then of course there's the potential for "accidents". Someone dies, their organs are needed urgently and lest we not forget that there is a very small window availible to harvest a person's organs. The relatives of the deceased can't be contacted immediately and there's no opt-out card on the body. Organs are taken, the person's possible beliefs are ignored by default, and then when the relatives do arrive they find their loved one's body mutilated.
If you want to increase donations, then you need to make is easier for people to make the choice to donate and better highlight the value of doing so. Organ donation should always be a choice, not an obligation.
On the other hand, I'm sure all my internal organs will be ravaged by diabetes-related complications by the time I die, so either way, I'm likely going into the ground whole.
But surely it is still a choice, when you have the option to opt-out? I just can't wrap my head around the weird idea that after I die I still require all my bits, because otherwise I wont fill the entire urn, or whatever. Accidents, woop-de-doo, the potential benefits surely outweigh the potential risks?
I'm kind of in the same boat with you. disease-transfer concerns aside. Filled out the form, signed it, felt squicky, 'forgot' to mail it. Granted, no one will want my liver for anything but government-funded scare ads, but that's still me sucking right there. And now the form isn't handed to you with your driver's licence anymore, so its all too much effort. This is one of the few ways the government can actually force me to be less of an asshole without me losing anything :P
Here's a thought: do you think its logical to extend this to mandatory blood donations, or is that too different? You're not dead when they happen, for one thing.
Even then sometimes they have to go through my hand.
First i just want to say Opt out is bullshit. I should not need to tell you to keep your hands off my organs. As previously stated, what if their is a situation where organs need to be harvested NOW, and there is no way to determine the status of the body. Under Opt in they leave you the hell alone, under Opt out, they harvest and apologize.
Second if your an organ donor, situation depending, they may not work quite as hard to save your life. I am not saying its common, but i am saying it happens. With this policy hospitals will actually be rewarded for failing to save lives. If someone dies suddenly they have this crop of organs that they can charge insurance companies to extract, store, and transplant. When someone has to make a decision whether to undertake a risky treatment that might save the patient but render certain organs non viable for transplantation it becomes a conflict of interest. Under the system you knew the patients wishes and would act to either save their life, or their organs. Under the new system saving the patient will cost the hospital money.
My mother knows my wishes on organ donation. Since if there is ever a case where it comes up they are going to ask her I know my wishes will be respected. If I do not live long enough for them to locate her, oh well. Better that than being let die because someone needs a liver.
Pro-tip: medicos don't get a free case of beer for every cornea yanked from a motorcycle accident victim.
Not quite. It is only given that your body is yours as long as you live, but no choice is taken on your part to give the organs after death - instead they are claimed. No cognitive choice is made on your part and unless you are made distinctly aware of the organ donation program and it's implications for you, then no choice is ever made.
The choice is instead, that you have to lay claim to your own body and in turn choose not to "donate". I put donate in quotes because donation requires a choice to give, rather than a choice not to deny which is what a opt-out system comes down to.
Additionally, whereas the choice at present is considered a noble and admirable action, under an opt-out system the choice becomes stigmatized and selfish, regarded as backward and ultimately placing a pressure on people not to choose. In turn the organ donation system takes on a image of grave robbing, state interferance and cold opportunism rather than it's current one of respect and goodwill.
As for what you do with your own bits - that's your choice and one which under the current system you don't have to take until you're comfortable with it. There's nothing wrong with holding an attatchment to your bits and you don't need any specific reason to want to keep them. They're yours to give or they're yours to keep and nobody has any claim better than your own.
That's some hardcore paranoia there man.
You're basically saying anyone in an opt-in system will receive a lower level of treatment, do you have evidence of this happening?
At least that's the vibe I'm getting, regardless of the 'other' reasons that get stated.
Oh, boy.. here we go.
I'm always uncomfortable with this argument, because it means that pool of transplant organs available is being deliberately limited to those who have actually sat down and thought about what they want to happen after they die. Given the scarcity of organs, I think it's reasonable to say that the proportion of people who do is pretty small.
I'm hesitant to raise the question, because I can see a lot of high-horsery and appeal to emotion stemming from it, but I think it's reasonable to ask if your organs, once you die, are still yours?
But that's exactly what they're doing.
Hell, I don't see how opting-out would be any harder than going to a government website, printing out a form, and mailing it in.
Those who aren't donors can be kept in a database that hospitals can check beforehand so as curb mistakes.
Hell it could be something even their GP knows so they can be contacted.
And if no identification can be obtained well just default to 'don't harvest' if you want to ensure people's rights aren't violated.