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Do you want consoles to embrace home-computer tasks?
Ego
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We all know that consoles and computers are the same thing, just like routers and computers are the same thing.
The hardware limitations always tended to preclude them being used for 'average' computer tasks, however: lack of input devices, inability to store data, inability to transfer data, lack of video output with suitable definition for text (last big problem with computing on a console, IMO). A 68000 sitting in your d-link doesn't mean you can plug in a keyboard and get some retro visicalc action going, after all.
Most of these problems are gone or will be, soon (probably by the next generation of consoles):
-consoles support keyboards
-consoles have storage or support it
-HD is making it's rounds replacing SD sets, the digital-only switch in 2009 should encourage this trend.
-the internet is quickly becoming the new way to transfer or acquire data.
-USB means printer support is just a software implementation away.
So, do you think the next generation of consoles should embrace some computing tasks? Do you think someone should be able to grab AbiWord (or an equivalent) for a console, pick up a 10$ keyb and 20$ printer, and pound out a paper for university? Do you think this would add something to consoles, or take something away from them?
I can't be specific, but if you imagined one of the next consoles as being a lot like it's current iteration, with a minor processing power increase, a large amount of storage automatically built in, and a heavy integration with a DRM'd online tv-show/movie/software distribution network (complete with on-demand streaming of tv shows and certain movies with spliced in advertising), I don't think you'd find yourself too surprised. Oh, and with a clever device to replace mice as an effective cursor control system, also doubling as a 'remote' for watching shows/dvd/movies.
Anyways. To reiterate the question: since consoles are soon to ditch low-definition output, do you want the option to be able to do computer-esque tasks on your console?
The hardware limitations always tended to preclude them being used for 'average' computer tasks, however: lack of input devices, inability to store data, inability to transfer data, lack of video output with suitable definition for text (last big problem with computing on a console, IMO). A 68000 sitting in your d-link doesn't mean you can plug in a keyboard and get some retro visicalc action going, after all.
Most of these problems are gone or will be, soon (probably by the next generation of consoles):
-consoles support keyboards
-consoles have storage or support it
-HD is making it's rounds replacing SD sets, the digital-only switch in 2009 should encourage this trend.
-the internet is quickly becoming the new way to transfer or acquire data.
-USB means printer support is just a software implementation away.
So, do you think the next generation of consoles should embrace some computing tasks? Do you think someone should be able to grab AbiWord (or an equivalent) for a console, pick up a 10$ keyb and 20$ printer, and pound out a paper for university? Do you think this would add something to consoles, or take something away from them?
I can't be specific, but if you imagined one of the next consoles as being a lot like it's current iteration, with a minor processing power increase, a large amount of storage automatically built in, and a heavy integration with a DRM'd online tv-show/movie/software distribution network (complete with on-demand streaming of tv shows and certain movies with spliced in advertising), I don't think you'd find yourself too surprised. Oh, and with a clever device to replace mice as an effective cursor control system, also doubling as a 'remote' for watching shows/dvd/movies.
Anyways. To reiterate the question: since consoles are soon to ditch low-definition output, do you want the option to be able to do computer-esque tasks on your console?
Erik
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I agree about the media stuff though. I'd much rather have access to Netflix, etc via consoles.
I dunno. Seems like 6 one way, half a dozen the other. On the one hand, consoles are popular because they're cheap and not nearly as complex as computers. On the other hand, PCs are better suited for certain tasks for the reasons you stated that consoles would require to have to compete.
I think the biggest obstacle to consoles taking over the role of PCs is perception. I think the general public sees consoles = games and PCs = internet/work. Maybe this new generation of people will see it differently, but that's not really for another 20 years. I mean, WE know that the DVR, router, console, PC, and hell even our iPods are more or less the same thing, but the general public doesn't.
Finally, I don't know if the console is necessarily an evolution of the PC, or merely a parallel entity. For example, I think word processors are an evolution of the typewriter. It performed the same task better. However, is the Kindle an evolution of the book? I think those are parallel entities. Similar in task and function, but not necessarily an improvement.
So I guess it comes down to, can a console eventually perform the tasks of a PC better and easier. That's where all our technological innovations lie. We went from LP->8Track->cassette->CD->mp3 because each medium, arguably, performed the task better. Also, if the a console ever does perform those tasks better, will it still be a console, or is it a PC?
Now, TiVo/DVR functionality? Sign me up. There have been rumors of a 360 and/or PS3 with that capability for a long time, and I'd be all over it.
But most people who buy a PS3 have no idea that you can do this.
I really like that the PS3 runs linux without the need for modification of the unit itself, and the open source library is good evidence that software development costs are no longer a valid reason to restrict certain software types from the console markets.
So here's another question: do you think the developer of a console should have the right to dictate how the console is used or what software is run on it?
On the other hand, PCs fill a role as versatile, open, modular, and upgradeable systems. They can be customized to fill whatever role you need them for and cost only as much as that ability is worth, at a price determined by a very large and competitive free market. And since no one "owns" the PC standard, like Nintendo owns the Wii or Microsoft owns the 360, it is a fairly egalitarian medium. You don't need to meet Microsoft's standards or pay them any fees to write and distribute software for Windows. The world of creating and distributing software for PCs is open to pretty much anyone with the desire to learn how to do it and an internet connection.
edit: When I say PC, I mean Macs as well.
How can the ability to make use of the hardware already present (in all consoles released this gen so we can figure on it being there in all next gen consoles) to run software be considered a superfluous feature? This isn't about different hardware configurations at all, rather that the current hardware of consoles is already a 'configuration' capable of a high degree of computing.
In short: No.
I have a desk in an office area for doing all of my pc-related tasks, be it office work, home work, internet tasks, or whatever else is typically used on the Pc for.
I have several consoles hooked up to my television. I cannot fathom a situation in which I'd prefer pulling out a wireless KBAM to do the sorts of things that I do at my desk that I'd rather go through even theoretically small hoops just to do via my console. It just doesn't seem like something at all necessary.
Now, there is an exception of course. I wouldn't mind being able to do some basic web surfing on the consoles (which is a feature I occasionally use), but I wouldn't be spending a lot of time on it. I don't mind using consoles for the occasional media usage, but usually I'll listen to music or watch videos/movies by some other means. But that's not a feature I wouldn't mind having and keeping on consoles even if I rarely use them, because at this point, there's no reason not to have these features.
Almost everything else, bleh, leave it for the PCs and laptops.
Now, the funny thing here, is that I actually have a media-center PC hooked up. However, I don't even use that machine for the purposes that I use a desktop for. I use it almost exclusively as a Tivo style box, but with a lot more options (as in, it does tivo funcitonality with a tv guide, pause, record, record series, rewind live tv, etc etc.). It has options for other things like music and DVDs and digital video and "online content" as well as browsing sports stats and a bunch of other crap; but I rarely use these other features. It's nice and all but I really just use the media pc as a Tivo box that I can occasionally burn recorded shows onto DVD to take with me sometimes, or keep series' episodes on. If the consoles integrated Tivo and tv-watching functionality and the sorts of uses I have with my media center, then yeah, I'll take that.
I guess what I'm saying is this: even with a full fledged windows vista machine hooked up to my television, I still prefer the working environment of a desktop for most things traditional to the PC. And when I'm on the go, I have a laptop as well.
Consoles, by and large, I really just get because I want to play games in my media area. Even with the abilities of my PC media center I have never had much desire to use it outside of media and other certain specific aspects. To that extent I'd definitely use a console thus integrated.
Beyond that, I doubt it'll ever replace my PC/laptop.
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Just nitpicky - but I know some people who HAVE written keyboard apps for the m68k.
Haha, and here I thought someone was going to nail me on how the integrated 68000-based chip they use in d-links is called something else.
This would be pretty much impossible unless you had really specialized hardware that somehow could not do anything but run games.
The question isn't if consoles can branch out and do more since geeks with too much time on their hands have showed that they can install linux and BSD on anything, but if there's actually demand for such. The answer to which is generally no. Not all hardware we associate with PCs has to be used to function as a PC. We put CPUs into a lot of things now, doesn't mean that we want our sedan to run a word processor or a Boeing 747 to allow the pilot to watch Youtube from the cockpit.
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I dunno which exact varient of m68k they use in the d-link (probably the 68001) but they're forwards and backwards compatible, are they not? Thus, it wouldn't be inaccurate to simply claim it has a 68000 chip inside.
Depends. I guess in so far as the law is concerned, they certainly have the right to dictate how the console is used or what software is run on it. That's pretty much how Apple operates it's PC market. Hell, now that I think about it, that's how most content providers run their business.
I guess it's about as fair as the kid who won't let you play basketball on his hoop unless you buy him an ice cream bar or something. Maybe that guy is being a dick, but it is his after all.
I suppose that's true though I was thinking more from the non-modding point of view. The PS3 is really the exception rather than the rule here (darned good exception though).
Well, one weekend I was coming home to houston from austin, and I needed a computer in order to keep up with my work. My actual tower weighs like 60 lbs and is HUGE, so I didn't want to lug it around, so I brought my PS3 instead. I cannot tell you how useful it is to have a built in webbrowser and the ability to print crap out.
Throwing in stuff like that, for me at least, really helps.
Plus, it's cool to be able to read ESPN.com on the toilet from my PSP.
EDIT: I'll even go one step further and say that, as a portable computer, my PSP gets way more use than as a portable game player. I use it every day to surf the web, listen to music, watch movies, and occasionally play games. I ESPECIALLY approve of portable systems being crammed to the brim with computer-like features.
Since cloud computing is taking off, and most apps are available online, it would be very feasible for someone to get by with most basic computing tasks with only the PS3.
After rereading this post, I sound like a goddamn plant. If you've seen some of my other posts, you'll know this is quite the opposite.
As for the point of the thread, do I want that? I dunno, I personally don't care, though I admit it's nice if I want to use my TV as a nice large screen, or my computer is having issues. With more toned down interfaces, it might help less computer literate people get online and networking. It's debateable whether that's a good thing or not.
Thats exactly what I'm talking about. My PS3 replaced my computer WITHOUT linux installed. It was great.
There are stories of people hooking up USB keyboards to the PSP as well, but I dunno if it supports it out of the box as I don't have a USB adaptor.
Also, how do you load printer drivers onto the thing?
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
It comes preloaded with thousands of printer drivers, and those which are not supported can use generic drivers.
You can print anything. Webpages, documents, photos, still shots from your camera, etc.
It doesn't, and dear god I wish it did.
I'd settle for a popup QUERTY keyboard. I can't stand the dial-in method it uses.
They should allow the PSP to accept that as keyboard input.
I have a foldout keyboard for my PocketPC, but it uses the infrared port. But although it's extremely compact when folded, it works extremely well as a keyboard for typing out long things when I need it.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
This consistancy of experience is very important for the success of closed electronics platforms. This is what allows such devices to be successfully marketed and sold as conveniences, and toys. This, in turn, has shaped perception of their role in people's lives. Interestingly all current games console makers are struggling to break down these perceptions in order to reach broader audiences.
So, game consoles are already expanding their roles and utility, but have you considered that whatever be said here, your question may not be for us to answer? What is the demographic shaping the the expansion of games console roles? For the most part, we on this board represent the people most likely to buy a games console if the one and only thig it did was play video games.
Therefore Ego, I don't know that we're the right people to ask if you're trying to gauge the possibilities.
If this is just an academic excercise, I unfortunately have no preference to contribute.
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Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
Web? check. HL2? check. Changes to the website? check. Downloading torrents of high def porn while watching porn while having sex in a comfortable position from which we can both watch the screen? Check. Remote desktop to the office to write some code while flipping between a dozen different programs? Nope. 1080p just doesn't do it.
What I like about consoles is that they just work every time without checking and debating requirements, googling a fix, updating drivers, hanging, rebooting, etc. RROD and disk read errors aside, consoles just work. Hit the power button and play every damn time.
As much as I enjoy blurring the lines between consoles, PCs, TVs, and entertainment systems, there are cases when one option is clearly the best. An option to do something is fine, but a console should cost $400 and play games really well, not cost $800 and be a weak, limited PC.
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I was also assuming it would be easier to develop for consoles because they do not have those infinite permutations of possible hardware configurations. I thought the lower occurrence of bugs in console software might be related to that, but I guess that might be more due to developers for computers deciding they can patch it later and start selling the product sooner vs. developers on consoles not really having the option of patching.
The driver/hardware issue thing was what I was originally thinking as to why there has (historically?) been a big difference in the bugginess of released software between consoles and computers.
The Atari E.T. game screws up the graph, though.
Yeah, you can probably divide this into two categories, multiplayer balance andenhancement patches which have been pretty ubiquitous thanks to the hard drives with the 360/PS3.
And then there's been a lot of games that have had pretty serious problems, from the mono only Guitar Hero for Wii, the major performance issues on Bully 360, GTA IV not loading on PS3s, R6:Vegas 2s. Bioshock caching problems. To general clusterfucked games like Frontlines.
Still, nowhere near as bad, but a lot of shit creeps through even in high budget, respected devs.
The consistancy of consoles is means to a similar, but different end: ease for users.
Game consoles are already changing/expanding both their functionality and usability. If you can tell me where you can see them going and meeting with success right now, you have found where the near future lies. Everything else will be a surprise, as always.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra