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How do you deal with racism?
electricitylikesme
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I had an interesting experience the other night at my 5 year high school reunion. I was talking to a girl who had always been a bit, well, "yabbo", for want of a better word and naturally the usual commentary of what uni and what degree did you do proceeded and I mentioned I went to UNSW.
This triggered the quite disturbing comment of "I bet you were like the only white person there" and was followed on with "yeah there are asians everywhere at my uni. I hate 'em". I was pretty drunk at the time but I believe there may have also been a requisite "go back to their own country" thrown in there as well.
Now, this is not actually a surprising sentiment unfortunately - it gets scrawled on public bathroom walls around the campus with retarded regularity, what has given me some reflection though is how do you react to something like this? I feel like in retrospect I should've been more angry about these comments then I was - in person I went for deflecting comments and said something to the effect of "well they do work hard to get their, but you did graduate so you can obviously compete".
Was this the right thing to say? I don't know. On the one hand there's no real value starting a pretty venomous argument at an event like that, on the other hand that idea is far too prevalent and incredibly damaging to what I want Australia to be - we have a massive hangover of the White Australia Policy still.
And so I'm conflicted - on the one hand I want to be angry, I feel like I should've been but on the other hand I also know that by and large the attitude expressed was just ignorance, which I feel is why I went the route I did - emphasize that we're all colleagues and people. I mean what do you do about that sort of thing?
Hence I pose the question to you D&D - it is easy for us to disparage racism, but how do we prevent it becoming an idea in the first place? This might be a slightly culture specific thread - racism against the asian community in Australia has always seemed incredibly fucking perverse to me because it starts from the precept of "these people are smarter then us", to my mind. I just, I don't know how to react to that when I encounter it - the only thing my reflection has come up with is while I should feel more irritated, I'm not sure being confrontational would've really helped.
Opinions, reactions, comments?
This triggered the quite disturbing comment of "I bet you were like the only white person there" and was followed on with "yeah there are asians everywhere at my uni. I hate 'em". I was pretty drunk at the time but I believe there may have also been a requisite "go back to their own country" thrown in there as well.
Now, this is not actually a surprising sentiment unfortunately - it gets scrawled on public bathroom walls around the campus with retarded regularity, what has given me some reflection though is how do you react to something like this? I feel like in retrospect I should've been more angry about these comments then I was - in person I went for deflecting comments and said something to the effect of "well they do work hard to get their, but you did graduate so you can obviously compete".
Was this the right thing to say? I don't know. On the one hand there's no real value starting a pretty venomous argument at an event like that, on the other hand that idea is far too prevalent and incredibly damaging to what I want Australia to be - we have a massive hangover of the White Australia Policy still.
And so I'm conflicted - on the one hand I want to be angry, I feel like I should've been but on the other hand I also know that by and large the attitude expressed was just ignorance, which I feel is why I went the route I did - emphasize that we're all colleagues and people. I mean what do you do about that sort of thing?
Hence I pose the question to you D&D - it is easy for us to disparage racism, but how do we prevent it becoming an idea in the first place? This might be a slightly culture specific thread - racism against the asian community in Australia has always seemed incredibly fucking perverse to me because it starts from the precept of "these people are smarter then us", to my mind. I just, I don't know how to react to that when I encounter it - the only thing my reflection has come up with is while I should feel more irritated, I'm not sure being confrontational would've really helped.
Opinions, reactions, comments?
electricitylikesme on
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At least they arent doing it around me I guess.
but they're listening to every word I say
Also what I truly enjoy is being called Mexican when I'm not. But that can't be helped...we all look the same
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Problem solved.
That's retarded. Mockery is better.
Hate everyone equally.
Dismissive mockery.
Shogun Streams Vidya
But then, I've seen, like, two black people, ever, so dealing with it is not that much of an issue around these parts.
But you just know that if it ever came up when talking to someone, chances are pretty good that I wouldn't like what I'd be hearing.
How is that not a perfect example of racism?
I'm at a loss.
Just what is your point, here?
A) Being a racist.
Instead I just said, "dude, that's pretty racist" and walked off. He was very quiet and somber the rest of the day. I think maybe my cool reaction somehow made him feel worse than if I had become visibly upset.
This.
Yeah, slavery couldn't have been that bad. God he's dumb.
It's generalizing a subset of a larger generality? Not all asians are assholes, all asians who attend my college are assholes.
When people deal day in and day out with people who are a) a pain and b) impact their educational quality in a number of ways, they tend to say mean things? Its still a problem, but its not a case of 'hurr hurr iggerant yobbo generalising about the whole population'.
Admittedly, he did not last long at our store.
Also, it's not uncommon to see insular trends among significantly different cultures. There's a lot more seperating a native Chinese student and Aussie student than a native British.
It's one thing to say, "Damn, I have some dumb-ass motherfuckers in my group," (which I said about my white group members basically every time I had to do group work), but it's quite another to say, "Damn, because these people are <ethnicity x> they are causing problems."
I understand cultural differences amongst ethnic groups, but when you start pointing the finger and saying ethnic group so-and-so is causing problems because, essentially, they're unlike me, then it gets a little messier.
And another whole thing is that while white people often feel comfortable discussing common trends amongst minority ethnic groups, I've found few things piss off white people more than making broad generalizations about whites, so...
But you and I both know they were jerks because they were asshats, not because they were black. Which actually means because caucasians are the in the majority, we most likely have a larger number of asshats. I guess it would be like an asshat per capita deal.
It actually is a case of "hurr hurr iggerant yobbo generalising about the whole population." How is it not?
"Yeah there are asians everywhere at uni. I hate 'em."
See, the problem is with "I hate 'em." That's a racist statement. It's the perfect example of racism.
But that largely works because people don't want to piss me off.
Goddamn palefaces.
*The only major group I can't trace a direct marriage-based or blood relation to is "Black," but much of my family was raised in a black neighborhood, such as my father, and they conform to most of the stereotypes for that background.
Guess who didn't say that.
She didn't say that.
I'll see your ass in court. Don't judge me on my inability to obtain and maintain a tan.
Was the intent of the claim by ELM's drunk person that they hate all asians, or that they hate a subset of asians, those who are at her school? The two mean markedly different things, and I'd find it difficult labelling the latter as true racism. At least, in a vacuum. It may just be the easiest descriptor to label the recipients of her ire. Same as 'frat boys' or 'those fuckers on the 3rd floor.' Or she may be a racist bitch.
Oh, sorry. Heh.
So their English skills weren't as good as hers -- big surprise? It's something you have to work with in a diverse environment. She also says they were more quiet than her Aussie counterparts. Considering I've done group works with plenty of semi-mute, stupid-ass white kids who didn't say much because they didn't have a single useful idea in their head, I don't see how the Cat's complaint is necessarily a function of their ethnicity, yet because their skin is a different color, it becomes one. Moving beyond that, maybe they were more quiet and shy around an Aussie, because they've had a surplus of experiences where white people give them a hard time about their speech (speaking in a second language can be really, really scary, because it's often difficult to "be yourself" (as I'm sure you probably know) when you're not fully fluent), or else white people just pester them about the cultural differences, or whatever the hell else it is that white people do instead of just relaxing and letting them be themselves, because they're judging them on how well "integrated" they are, so on, so forth...
So I agree that "integration" is something that people traveling in other countries should make some concessions toward, but that's all too often used as a cop-out for white people to act boorish, ignorant, and ultimately racist in the end. The majority also has some responsibility to help the minority integrate as well, and also to allow for harmless differences where they present themselves, something the majority can often struggle with.
Irish need not apply.
(Because if it's not Scottish it's crap)
--
One of the important thing is to know the difference between a race, a culture, and an individual.
Genetics are meaningless outside of the doctor's office.
Culture can be a pretty big deal -- I have a low opinion of pretty much all of them.
People of any cultural background will regularly completely fail conform to the standards of that culture.
Exactly.
No no, I didn't have a problem. Full-fee foreign students from china and india do business/law/medicine as a rule, because they're the degrees marketed heavily to overseas students and they're perceived as having the high returns on investment that justify travelling so far (which is true). What I'm describing is what I've heard from other people. You can see how the attitude arises, and my point is that its not starting with 'dang furriners, they're all funny colours', its starting with 'argggh these guys are a pain to deal with' plus overextrapolation. Still, I never saw one of those frustrated students freaking out about the general asian population, just the students they had to deal with.
Also, totally called it on Cat not being a bigot.
On the rare occasions when I do run into legit racist statements, my reaction varies from an uncomfortable response to disgust, largely based on how well I know that person.
The thing with America is that there's like this . . fog of racism, or something, that kind of throws this air of unpleasant understanding over white-black interactions. Malcolm X talked about it at length in his book, and I definitely noticed it when I went abroad for a year . . . and it was just not there. Its like . . . that history of slavery and jim crow and all that horrible shit just isn't there to hang over everyone. Its like everyone comes to the table expecting the same from everyone else.
And I really wish I knew how we could move past our history. Its rough.
Still -- people can surprise you. I mean, shit -- of course I harbor some racist generalizations, not just about minorities, but obviously white people as well, just like I will form negative generalizations about a guy with a polo and his collar popped up. The issue ultimately is how much you allow these generalizations affect your treatment of others. I think I do a pretty good job of not letting them unnecessarily cloud my judgment and prevent me from interacting positively with groups of people unlike me. Am I perfect? Of course not, no one is, but when you take someone in ELM's example who's just saying some stupid, generalizing crap about a group of people largely because they are non-white-euros, then that's crossing a line, and is rightfully demonized by most.
Generally as far as racism is concerned i'll often have left discerning individuals ask me questions like "Why aren't you, you know, black?" or when people use a racial slur they'll quickly amend their comment with something similar to "Not like Ed, he's just black. I mean if they were all like Ed. . .". Alternatively from the black community I'll often simply be told that I am not black.
To assess the point of the topic I deal with racism simply by not dealing with it. It's irrational and faulted. I suppose my position has just lead me to take a more humanistic stance on individuals. When I do encounter it I attempt to point out logical fallacies and mistakes and unfortunately I've seen examples that help to perpetuate all sides of racism. Really I just do my best to explain why perceived differences in cultures exist and underline basic humanity whenever I encounter racism.
Oh and I do have to say that coming from a white community (as weird as that sounds) and never encountering a single Asian throughout my scholastic career the integration at university was actually a little shocking at first.