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So on a scale from cool to Morlock where does this belong?

RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
edited June 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
Friend of mine just sent me a few links about a demonstration of a cold fusion reaction May 22nd in Japan.

Gizmodo
PhysicsWorld
New Energy Times
Atomic Motor Blog

Anyone have any more info about this? I hadn't heard of it previously but it certainly would be cool if it pans out.

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  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Oh god not again.

    These stories pop up every year, some one claims to have done it and the results always turn out false in the end.

    Kagera on
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  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Eh, if nothing else the debunking should prove interesting.

    That aside, this isn't some hick in his garage playing with magnets. I only posted at all as the dude making claims actually has relevant credentials and is showing his work.

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  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    So...first reported on some 1990s looking, pro-cold fusion blog rather than in a scientific journal, with claims that the scientist in question is planning a 'demonstration' and 'lecture' rather than again, publishing his results in a scientific journal. And then followed up on by four more blogs with still a distinct lack of papers published in journals.

    Yea, this be a hoax.

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  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited June 2008
    Aegis wrote: »
    So...first reported on some 1990s looking, pro-cold fusion blog rather than in a scientific journal, with claims that the scientist in question is planning a 'demonstration' and 'lecture' rather than again, publishing his results in a scientific journal. And then followed up on by four more blogs with still a distinct lack of papers published in journals.

    Yea, this be a hoax.

    Not to rain on your parade, but their data was published, apparently in two consecutive issues of some Japanese journal, and then they held a demonstration producing identical data in front of a live audience.

    I'm still not buying into it being cold fusion just yet, but you know, I'm pretty sure they've done everything that they're supposed to have done thus far.

    Aroduc on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    There's been quite a lot of published stuff about cold fusion (specifically, apparent radiation release from the deposition of deuterium from D2SO4 onto palladium electrodes) but the problem is since no journal really wants to be associated with it unless you're report was something like "after 24h the lab was obliterated by a small thermonuclear blast" then the major ones don't care.

    The heating of the test cell is nothing special though - there are a bunch of things which can cause this, the big one being a phenomenon called Faradaic efficiency (if the experiment was performed with electrolysis - these sorts of things usually are, only using pressure is well, something new).

    From what I can tell it seems like they're implying they are doing electrolysis, which means there is a huge question as to whether any radiation was actually emitted - especially when they're compressing gases and the like.

    EDIT: Also, there is actually an argument that the external chemical environment can effect nuclear activity, but it's kind of weird and not really related to fusion (the guy who reduced the half-life of something).

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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I live in Japan, and I haven't heard anything about this, despite being only a short distance away from Osaka. If this was actually big 'we've gotten cold fusion to actually work!' situation, I expect that there would've been something mentioned about it over the past week.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • FalxFalx Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I live in Japan, and I haven't heard anything about this, despite being only a short distance away from Osaka. If this was actually big 'we've gotten cold fusion to actually work!' situation, I expect that there would've been something mentioned about it over the past week.

    They're totally keeping it secret to build their giant robots dude.

    Falx on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Gizmodo wrote:
    But a Japanese scientist was supposedly able to start a cold fusion reaction earlier this week
    I'm no scientiest, but I'm guessing there's a difference between starting and maintaining a reaction, and furthermore turning it into something useful.

    Malkor on
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  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Malkor wrote: »
    Gizmodo wrote:
    But a Japanese scientist was supposedly able to start a cold fusion reaction earlier this week
    I'm no scientiest, but I'm guessing there's a difference between starting and maintaining a reaction, and furthermore turning it into something useful.

    Now you're talking all that fancy book LARNIN!

    At best this appears to be a proof of concept demonstration, which would be very exciting in and of itself. But refining this into a viable energy source would be tricky indeed. Unless they've got Robert Downey Jr. in a cave working on it.

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  • symonswsymonsw Registered User new member
    edited June 2008
    Aegis wrote: »
    So...first reported on some 1990s looking, pro-cold fusion blog rather than in a scientific journal, with claims that the scientist in question is planning a 'demonstration' and 'lecture' rather than again, publishing his results in a scientific journal. And then followed up on by four more blogs with still a distinct lack of papers published in journals.

    Yea, this be a hoax.

    If you think that one looks old ..check this one out, you might like the content :
    http://www.boingboing.net/sex/

    symonsw on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    These threads no fun when everyone is as skeptical as I.

    electricitylikesme on
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I'm dumb but shouldn't it be pretty easy to say 'hey look! helium.' or at least 'hey look less hydrogen'?

    shouldn't there be any evidence other than, 'well, it's slightly warm.' Chemical containment is kinda a neat idea if it has any merit.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    That's really the big one - unless he generated a spectacular amount of heat, 70 degrees Celsius or so is easily something you can do by a whole lot of means completely accidentally. I mean the pressure of forcing D2 into a complex would likely generate some heat.

    EDIT: Also I've just been having a look at the two linked papers from PhysicsWorld and they are very difficult to follow (which isn't surprising for a number of reasons). The problem I have with all these things is that I naturally can't believe the experiment is being viewed through the right lens, and the structure of those papers is pretty poor.

    It's that whole situation where I want to believe, and there's some tantalizing evidence that the chemical environment can effect nuclear reactions, but there's just so many questions to ask.

    From that I can tell they seem to be implying that you get some kind of locally hot fusion similar to a fusor - somehow the electric field "overpressures" the particulated palladium and fuses. Or at least, this is the only version I can conceive of as being likely to give actual fusion (since fusors do work, but don't give more energy out).

    electricitylikesme on
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