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PAX Advertising Scheme: Bring Girls!
RowdyTheDog
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Has anyone else noticed the more girl-centric ads on the site? I have no problem with women, love them in fact (:winky:) but I have noticed the progression from the first couple PAX' that the men to women ratio is falling to a more reasonable level. The only reason I mention this is because it has an effect of the convention in general. The games targeted and played by women, in the majority, are not the games played by more hardcore men (and yes, some women) gamers. Therefore, is this a step towards a new, softer PAX? Is this a good step or bad step?
**Posted much later, to clairify**
Hmm, it seems I'm geting a bad rap for what I started here. Let me first try to explain myself. I shouldn't have used the word hardcore, which splits gamers into a black-and-white categorization. What I was trying to get at is that these advertisements didn't reflect my past experiences at PAX, nor do I think they reflect a wide variety of the experiences available. I think PAX was great for meeting new people and enjoying the atmosphere, but when trying to describe it to others who haven't been, I have great difficulty. Even this site has little to explain it, with many new users jumping on the forum to post "But what IS PAX?" The 2004 PAX DVD was just video of people playing pc and console games on fast forward. The ads give a much different impression, though, no?
The reason I created this thread was because I was nervous about the fact I was bringing, for the first time, my girlfriend and another couple we are friends with to PAX 08. This is a trend, as PAX grows by word of mouth more than advertising. I desperately hope my girlfriend and her friend enjoy the event, as they are not what I would consider gamers. While they play games, they do not put a high priority in them, nor do they play them regulairly or often. I am glad to see posters like Lyanth because this points out my fear. My friends do not play WoW or Halo and don't know to cringe at angry mobs. Personaly, there are plenty of Halo 3 players I can't stand and hope never go to PAX, but they at least would feel at home in the cavernous halls of the Washington State Trade and Convention Hall.
So, long story short: I am not talking about hardcore gamer markets or how girls suck at games and I am sorry for not making myself clearer. What I am talking about is the shift I see in the way PAX is representing itself. Would people who saw these ads and see common ground in them feel at home at PAX? And yes, how does this change the convention I've attended over and over, because it will and it probably should. Now, any respectful thoughts?
Transparent wrote:
There's room for everyone.
Yes, to an extent there is and even if there isn't you couldn't possibly single a certain kind of people out. But everybody includes non-gamers and I kinda don't want them there. I see PAX as a haven for gamers and people who don't respect games, in any form, I don't think are welcome, not that they'd come anyway. But maybe you see my point?
Anyway, since the site is now filled with RSPoD adds, it's hard to verify this, but most of the adds had little to do with gaming, and more with social interaction. Which, as I said earlier, I still enjoy. I was just wondering if others saw this, minded it, and whatnot.
**Posted much later, to clairify**
Hmm, it seems I'm geting a bad rap for what I started here. Let me first try to explain myself. I shouldn't have used the word hardcore, which splits gamers into a black-and-white categorization. What I was trying to get at is that these advertisements didn't reflect my past experiences at PAX, nor do I think they reflect a wide variety of the experiences available. I think PAX was great for meeting new people and enjoying the atmosphere, but when trying to describe it to others who haven't been, I have great difficulty. Even this site has little to explain it, with many new users jumping on the forum to post "But what IS PAX?" The 2004 PAX DVD was just video of people playing pc and console games on fast forward. The ads give a much different impression, though, no?
The reason I created this thread was because I was nervous about the fact I was bringing, for the first time, my girlfriend and another couple we are friends with to PAX 08. This is a trend, as PAX grows by word of mouth more than advertising. I desperately hope my girlfriend and her friend enjoy the event, as they are not what I would consider gamers. While they play games, they do not put a high priority in them, nor do they play them regulairly or often. I am glad to see posters like Lyanth because this points out my fear. My friends do not play WoW or Halo and don't know to cringe at angry mobs. Personaly, there are plenty of Halo 3 players I can't stand and hope never go to PAX, but they at least would feel at home in the cavernous halls of the Washington State Trade and Convention Hall.
So, long story short: I am not talking about hardcore gamer markets or how girls suck at games and I am sorry for not making myself clearer. What I am talking about is the shift I see in the way PAX is representing itself. Would people who saw these ads and see common ground in them feel at home at PAX? And yes, how does this change the convention I've attended over and over, because it will and it probably should. Now, any respectful thoughts?
Transparent wrote:
There's room for everyone.
Yes, to an extent there is and even if there isn't you couldn't possibly single a certain kind of people out. But everybody includes non-gamers and I kinda don't want them there. I see PAX as a haven for gamers and people who don't respect games, in any form, I don't think are welcome, not that they'd come anyway. But maybe you see my point?
Anyway, since the site is now filled with RSPoD adds, it's hard to verify this, but most of the adds had little to do with gaming, and more with social interaction. Which, as I said earlier, I still enjoy. I was just wondering if others saw this, minded it, and whatnot.
RowdyTheDog on
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This discussion has been closed.
Posts
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
/thread
Statement: Just a simple droid, here, ma'am. Nothing to see. Move along.
We also look sexy in metroid hats.
I just want to know, are these baseball caps with metroids on them or actual metroid plush hats such that the fangs are hooked into your skull?
In many ways I think that this growing schism will not heal, at least not bilaterally. In the same way that simple board games birthed complex war games and role playing games, and while that hardcore culture that plays the complex often plays the simple, the opposite isn't true. In some ways, the hardcore electronic gamers may need to dig in now to assure that they remain culturally dominant. Casual games by their simplicity are likely to supplant, nay, usurp, the more complex hardcore games because of the immutable nature of the bell curve of human capacity. The more I think about it, the more depressingly inevitable a shift in cultural dominance appears in favor of exclusive casual gamers.
Sigh.
I think if you are willing to travel (long distances, in many cases) for a gaming convention, you certainly earn some "gamer" cred. Isn't it really about finding like-minded people to have a good time?
Maybe the Omegathon is a good example. Last year's first round of Jenga is far from a "hardcore" game, but it was certainly fun to play on stage (and by fun, I mean terrifying). If people want to cop a "better than thou" attitude, I can understand that, because it sometimes sucks to see your hobby/love/addiction turned into MTV-blasted crap, but having the attitude (which I never really encountered at PAX) would take the fun away from the whole convention.
I have to agree with you, as well as most everyone else here so far. Unfortunetly, I consider myself a casual gamer (though not by choice). I am serious about games, and have a great passion for it (while else would I be here?). But to be honest, sometimes "Hard-core" games are uninviting and hard for me to enjoy because I struggle with them so much. For example, I started playing Star Craft about 3 years ago. And I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees that Star Craft is a foundation of that which is considered "Hard-core". I really did enjoy the battles and learning about stratagies and how to avoid that flipping Zurg rush. So much to the point that I would lose track of time. Even with months of effort, though, I felt no real change in skill level and my number of victories was still in the single digits. This was not for lack of trying, trust me. So I turned to rpg games and the like, where you are going to win a least your first few battles, no prob.
It really doesn't have too much to do with genre, though. I really want to enjoy the occasional FPS or RTS as much as the next dude. But I get tired of being frustrated at my lack of improvement and the NPCs constantly kicking my butt on easy mode. Or even my friends, who on various occasions tried to teach me or helped, but in the end, don't change much. Games are supposed to be fun, but the game really isn't fun if you can't shoot the alien in the head.
Does this make me any less of a gamer in my opinon? No. Does this make me feel alienated from "Hard-core" gamers because I can't play the same games as them succesfully? YES. Do I wish with every fiber of my being that this could change and I could play on even a standard level occasionally? Absolutely. Do I feel that the gaming industry is going to focus strictly on games that only a person such as myself could play? No. Why do I think this? Because everyone who isn't playing WOW is still playing Halo 3 on their day off.
And I'm sorry this turned into a long rant.
AGREED.
Honestly, I have something to say about that.
I, as well, am a "soft-core" gamer; but I feel right at home at PAX as if I was at Disneyland.
I know. That was totally irrelevant.
Point is, if you like it there, then wahoo for you! Honestly, I have never heard of PAX nor Penny-Arcade until the Boyfriend mentioned it to me January of '07.
*Prepares to hide from the flying controllers from angry mob*
I play video-games...I suck at a good amount of them; but I like it for the story-lines and the either awesome or awesomely-bad graphics.
Does not help that I have Video-Game ADD.
But I contribute my money to buy the games. Even when I have not even passed the tutorial level of Halo 3.
*Seriously hides from the angry mob*
I don't play WoW or any of that sort. I don't play DnD--never understood the concept of dice. I play RPG-Type of games (I know, kinda typical for a girl.) I TRY my best with FPS and RTS. I actually do text-based RPGs. Have been for like twelve almost thirteen years now. I am just a gamer in a different way than folks expect.
I feel at home with the rest of the gamers--because we just are gamers. Even if you are two achievements away from completing Mass Effect or you are actually done with Precipice of Darkness or, Hells, still have yet to open up the box for Bioshock. We are what we are.
Gamers.
...Okie. Soap-Box done.
I go now.
Of course we want the casual gamers and female gamers to attend! Why wouldn't we? I agree that there are some out there who get their underwear in a bunch thinking of hanging out with "lesser" gamers. Thats just stupid elitism. Don't let them get you down! PAX is about gamers, of all shapes, sizes, genders, skill levels, and genres.
And I think is will always be that way.
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
That right there is the problem. There is nothing wrong with breaking something into categories but when you try to make them exclusive you create a social divide.
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
I think that is very true that the subculture doesn't need one but it does exist. As in all other blocks of life people strive for a way to show they are better than someone else. Hence things such as gamertag points (the so called E-Penis factor) that are used to show who's is bigger.
I really think that hardcore, casual, and softcore are not defined by amount played but by what is played and also knowledge. So what if you play for 20 hours a day if you don't even realize that it was due to Miyamoto that the face of gaming has changed forever.
I mean you can argue it anyway you want but I feel hardcore is when you do play games to 100% completion, you strive to find and play the more off-beat games (Ico/Skies of Arcadia/It's Mr. Pants/God Hand/Kartia), you follow the industry and cry when dev houses break up (
You apparently ignored the whole point of what I said. Subcultures do that to themselves. Perhaps you would like to force casual gamers to play Supreme Commander? Maybe force some Civ fanatics to play Boogie on the Wii? Subcultures select what they value and exclude other things, through that exclusion of concepts/activities those who appreciate said concepts/activities are similarly separated. It's the nature of social behavior.
Edit: Furthermore, I agree with MaoChan. Very insightful.
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
I propose a toast to Tasteticle!
Thank you. :^:
These concepts don't reconcile. If there are more casual than hardcore gamers, the industry will cater to the majority with most of their offerings, it's pure mathematics and economics. Industry will find whatever medium serves them best between the casual majority and the hardcore, multi-purchase minority. I don't think that the minority that buys more games will ultimately outweigh the majority of buyers. Worse, industry prefers to shoot for the middle, so they'll make shallow offerings in the FPS, RTS, RPG etc. markets, which has already been happening and why most of my genre favorites are from years in the past.
My analogy with tabletop/boardgaming applies to the industry side as much as the socio-cultural side, except that we've reversed the chicken and the egg. Rather than the hardcore segment being the outcast minority from the beginning as with tabletop, the hardcore of electronic gamers are used to being the focus, and eventually it won't be, and the only people who will serve it effectively will be a couple large of publishers (analogously WoTC and Avalon Hill) and a bunch of independents competing for a niche market. Sad really.
While your analogy is quite accurate, there one thing just to also consider is that back when things such as tabletop and CCGs were starting up, there was no internet. The internet will still help the hardcore gamers band together and make companies realize there is still a viable market there. Look at companies like Atlus, they solely make a living off of the uber Jap-hardcore player.
What I see happen is the current state of affairs more distilled. The Maddens and Halos and Marios will be there but then the niche studios will hang around but will be looking not to push the technology envelope so much in order to keep cost down but will instead focus on gameplay, which is what we all really wish would be the focus of most games.
I think there isn't much to worry about but that the dynamic will change and so will the gamers.
I have always considered a hardcore gamer to be a game enthusiast, wether they play them reguraly or not. A hardcore gamer is someone who buys them to either beat them into a bloody pulp, or play them to just have a sheer enjoyment of games. Casual Gamers, to me, are what someone equated to as "Normal People". They are those people who just go get an xbox and 3 games, and play them when they either A) Are bored or
I would like to consider myself a "Hardcore" Gamer as I am a game enthusiast, although its not my life goal to try and beat every game in existence (because, honestly, not all games are good). I just play games for fun, not to get the highest rank or all the acheivements.
I think we should just turn the term "Hardcore Gamer" into "Game Enthusiast", and "Casual Gamer" into "Boring/Normal Person". I think that would clear up a lot of misconseptions that people have about these sort of things.
All hail the Hypno-Spode!
I'm ttly 1337 yes?
Edit: Yes I am just teasing... don't hate and/or stab me with pointy things)
for the record i love girl gamers and will agree with whatever to keep the peace.
http://papercrafted.com
yet another outlet of my creative goods
QFT
What about the one with all the lame pickup lines?
Also, I can't find it anymore.
I'll help and restart it:
"Baby, it's time that I'm going to invade your galaxy.
First stop, URANUS!" :winky:
The reason I created this thread was because I was nervous about the fact I was bringing, for the first time, my girlfriend and another couple we are friends with to PAX 08. This is a trend, as PAX grows by word of mouth more than advertising. I desperately hope my girlfriend and her friend enjoy the event, as they are not what I would consider gamers. While they play games, they do not put a high priority in them, nor do they play them regulairly or often. I am glad to see posters like Lyanth because this points out my fear. My friends do not play WoW or Halo and don't know to cringe at angry mobs. Personaly, there are plenty of Halo 3 players I can't stand and hope never go to PAX, but they at least would feel at home in the cavernous halls of the Washington State Trade and Convention Hall.
So, long story short: I am not talking about hardcore gamer markets or how girls suck at games and I am sorry for not making myself clearer. What I am talking about is the shift I see in the way PAX is representing itself. Would people who saw these ads and see common ground in them feel at home at PAX? And yes, how does this change the convention I've attended over and over, because it will and it probably should. Now, any respectful thoughts?
Yes, to an extent there is and even if there isn't you couldn't possibly single a certain kind of people out. But everybody includes non-gamers and I kinda don't want them there. I see PAX as a haven for gamers and people who don't respect games, in any form, I don't think are welcome, not that they'd come anyway. But maybe you see my point?
Anyway, since the site is now filled with RSPoD adds, it's hard to verify this, but most of the adds had little to do with gaming, and more with social interaction. Which, as I said earlier, I still enjoy. I was just wondering if others saw this, minded it, and whatnot.
You realize that this makes you kind of a hypocrite, yes?
A lot of different 'types' of people go to PAX. I can't claim to understand them all, but PAX is not, by and large, an intolerant place by any means. Nobody is going to interrogate somebody about their reasons for being there and demand proof of their 'gamer cred' or e-peen or whatever. So the question becomes sourced in the potential attendee: 'Why do *I* want to go? What am *I* going to get out of this?' My wife used to be all-up-ons Sega especially Genesis, and she likes remixes of classic console music, and generally likes the people at PAX. She's not interested in most games that have come out in the last decade, and the few she likes I wouldn't touch with a proverbial ten foot pole. What brings PAX attendess together is a common spirit that appreciates the role that new and old games have played in our lives. In my opinion, most 'casual' gamers don't have that perspective. You can't get attached to gaming culture per se by playing a few minutes of some tarted up java-based game on your phone now and then. It just doesn't give the same emotional context that spending hours on an NES every day for years or Quakin' it all night long at a LAN party will give. The sense of meaning and community and shared experience just isn't there. This lies at the core of my belief that 'casual gamers' are something of a shallow, soul-less cancer usurping the focus of the gaming industry from the loyal serious gamers who actually have feelings about this stuff. (This of course is a scope limited to consumption in the gaming industry, it's not like I feel somebody is sub-human because they play bejewelled.)
Anyway, if your potential companions have no appreciable context, they could be bored. That's about the worst case scenario.