Monitor not displaying (Motherfucking Motherboards)

Professor Snugglesworth

So today I sprung for a 500gb SATA to add to my PC. I opened up my PC and connected the hard drive as a secondary storage with my existing drive. I figured everything checked out.

So what's the problem? My PC turns on, but it won't display on my monitor. I've spent the last hour connecting my monitor cable to any port it could fit on the PC, and even tried connecting a different monitor. All I get is a "no display" message on the monitor. I've checked all the cables between my monitor and PC, and everything should be okay.

As far as I know, the PC starts up normally, since the lights on my applications (mouse, speakers, etc) light up. But I can't figure out why my monitor won't display, if perhaps I tripped a tiny cable in my motherboard or graphics card when setting up the hard drive.

Please help me out here, I don't want to resort to shipping it to best buy.

TM2 Rampage

You've installed SATA drives before, right? Uhm, do you have them enabled in your BIOS or anything? If you unplug the SATA drive, your monitor will display stuff, won't it?

Professor Snugglesworth

The only SATA drive I installed was when I was building my PC. Are you saying it's the drive that's keeping my monitor from displaying anything?

As soon as I turn on the PC, nothing is displaying, not even the boot up screen. Nothing at all.

EDIT: Just for testing purposes I unplugged my primary drive as well from the PC. Still no display.

TM2 Rampage

Hmm okay just to check...

1. Your monitor is plugged into a wall outlet, right? Guess it is...
2. Your graphics card is seated in the slot on the motherboard, and has a little power cable attached to it, right? I'm assuming it's one of those new-ish gaming cards...

Professor Snugglesworth

Yes on the motherboard, no on the graphics card.

Anyway, I took the PC to Best Buy today, and they concluded it was most likely the motherboard that was the problem. They removed the graphics card and hooked their monitor directly to the motherboard port. It still wouldn't display, and they said it should at least display something if directly connected.

Fortunately I'm under the manufacturer warranty, so I shipped it back today, and now comes the waiting process. I can only hope the issue really was the motherboard, since I'm unsure what else could be the cause. I'll also have to buy some thermal grease to put the processor back on, and use tweezers to straighten some of the processor's pins (for some reason two or three were crooked when I took it out of the motherboard).

I was also advised by a classmate that I should get a new tower, as he claims Dell towers have a nasty habit of overheating and general unreliability. I'll consider it, just to be safe. I also ordered 2 more sticks of RAM, for 4gb total, since the guy in Best Buy mentioned that the cause for random blue screening on my PC was likely that the motherboard couldn't keep up wtih the ever memory hogging Vista.

bigwah

Professor Snugglesworth wrote: »

Yes on the motherboard, no on the graphics card.

Anyway, I took the PC to Best Buy today, and they concluded it was most likely the motherboard that was the problem. They removed the graphics card and hooked their monitor directly to the motherboard port. It still wouldn't display, and they said it should at least display something if directly connected.

Fortunately I'm under the manufacturer warranty, so I shipped it back today, and now comes the waiting process. I can only hope the issue really was the motherboard, since I'm unsure what else could be the cause. I'll also have to buy some thermal grease to put the processor back on, and use tweezers to straighten some of the processor's pins (for some reason two or three were crooked when I took it out of the motherboard).

I was also advised by a classmate that I should get a new tower, as he claims Dell towers have a nasty habit of overheating and general unreliability. I'll consider it, just to be safe. I also ordered 2 more sticks of RAM, for 4gb total, since the guy in Best Buy mentioned that the cause for random blue screening on my PC was likely that the motherboard couldn't keep up wtih the ever memory hogging Vista.

The bent processor pins sound like the problem. And please take things they say at geek squad with a grain of salt.

bloodr

Professor Snugglesworth wrote: »

I also ordered 2 more sticks of RAM, for 4gb total, since the guy in Best Buy mentioned that the cause for random blue screening on my PC was likely that the motherboard couldn't keep up wtih the ever memory hogging Vista.

That's classic, a motherboard that's not fast enough for an OS. I wonder if we should start a thread about the best stories you've heard from Geek Squad/Firedog employees.

Professor Snugglesworth

I told two other people about what they said, and they confirmed that it sounded plausible, although they were mainly speaking about their hatred of Vista.

It hardly matters anyway since I already bought the 2 extra sticks of RAM.

The thing about the processor is that the pins were crooked when I took it out of the motherboard. Would this likely mean that I inserted it incorrectly the first time, and thus may be the reason I was getting blue screens?

I'm using a toothpick to carefully and meticiously align the pins back to normal, but do they really all have to be perfectly aligned? What can I do to make sure I insert it correctly so there won't be any bent pins on the new motherboard?

EDIT: I worded things incorrectly, when I was talking about bent pins, I didn't mean the processor, but the heatsink.



A friend told me in that case, it didn't matter, so maybe more RAM is the solution after all.

ASimPerson

Why are there pins on your heatsink? That's a crappy photo, but it kind of looks like that the processor stuck to the heatsink?

LaCabra

Has nobody told you to reseat your RAM? It's got to be the number one cause of this shit. I had to do it twice today at work over insignificant things like throwing in extra optical drives.

EDIT: Your processor is stuck to your heatsink, this is bad, it means it wasn't installed correctly, someone didn't put that lever down when they put it in. I did that once.

taliosfalcon

I'm actually somewhat surprised it was running at all like that, not just blue screening.

LaCabra

Yeah, someone fucked up.

Tofystedeth

Also are you wearing sweatpants and kneeling on cloth while digging around in your computer?
That seems like a recipe for ESD.

Professor Snugglesworth

Okay, some clarification is in order. Upon closer inspection, I was actually correct the first time when I was talking about the processor's pins. That is indeed the processor stuck under the heatsink, due to the thermal grease I used before. Here's a clearer photo.

(note: that's not my bed)

I followed the instructions to a T before, first gently setting the processor on the motherboard, putting thermal grease on the top of the processor, sitting the heatsink on top of it, and closing the lever afterwards. The processor info showed up on my PC, so I really don't think I did anything wrong. What you see now is the processor stuck to the heatsink after removing both before shipping in the (supposedly) defective motherboard.

The only thing I don't get is why some of the pins are off, but maybe I just removed it too fast, too hard, or both. Anyway, I'm doing my best to setting the pins back in order with a toothpick, so hopefully it shouldn't be a problem when the motherboard gets back.

And by the way, those aren't sweatpants. They're cotton pajama pants.

meeker

I suspect maybe you aren't very technical. Problems I see:
- You installed a SATA drive and your monitor quit working.
- There is so much thermal paste there that the processor is stuck permenently to the heatsink.
- You "yanked" the heatsink out with the processor stuck to it.


Possible solutions:
- Did you test the monitor on another PC to be sure it wasn't the problem?
- Did you remove the SATA drive you installed to get back to the original configuration?
- Thermal paste should be smoothed on with a credit card. Thickness should be a sheet of paper.
- As you yanked the processor out without pulling the release for it, it may be shot.

Professor Snugglesworth

I admit I'm not the most versed in these things, since this was the first time I built a PC from ordered parts, but...

-I tested a different monitor on the PC, and the guy at the Geek Squad used his own monitor as well.
-I did remove the SATA drive to get it back to the original configuration.
-I suppose I overdid it with the thermal paste, but since it's going to back into the same motherboard anyway, I don't see the problem in having the processor stuck to the heatsink.
-I'm certain I pulled the release before yanking out the processor, but the PC was unplugged regardless, so I don't think it would be shot.

wunderbar

Professor Snugglesworth wrote: »

I admit I'm not the most versed in these things, since this was the first time I built a PC from ordered parts, but...

-I tested a different monitor on the PC, and the guy at the Geek Squad used his own monitor as well.
-I did remove the SATA drive to get it back to the original configuration.
-I suppose I overdid it with the thermal paste, but since it's going to back into the same motherboard anyway, I don't see the problem in having the processor stuck to the heatsink.
-I'm certain I pulled the release before yanking out the processor, but the PC was unplugged regardless, so I don't think it would be shot.

I'm sorry, but are you kidding? Too much thermal paste is actually worse than having no thermal paste at all. Too much means that it actually INSULATES the processor, causing MORE heat, not dissipating it faster. Also, pulling the heatsink out with the processor STILL ATTACHED could quite easily kill the processor. Zero Insertion Force processor sockets were invented for a reason.

You will be a very, very lucky man if you ever get this PC to work again.

Zilla360

Yup, way too much paste there. You only really need to apply just enough to cover the die, not the surrounding area.

Professor Snugglesworth

In that case, let me try to consider what options I can take.

1. The processor can be separated from the heatsink. All I had to do was use a screwdriver to slightly pry it. The thermal paste wasn't fully dry, so it was easy to just slide it off the heatsink. Suppose I merely wipe out most of the thermal paste, then applied a tiny smidge of new paste before setting it back in the motherboard. Would that work?

2. Is there a way to test the processor out before the replaced motherboard arrives? Maybe Best Buy again?

3. Assuming it is borked and there's nothing I can do about it, the worst case scenario is to just get another one, right? All other PC components shouldn't have been affected if I really did remove it incorrectly, correct?

4. And if it does require replacing, does AMD usually have a warranty for motherboards?

EDIT: Looks like they have a three year warranty plan.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_867_1034,00.html

I'll have to give them a call, but it looks like I should be covered, as long as I don't mention any of this being my fault. Since I have to wait around for the motherboard, I might as well ship out the possibly-faulty processor as well.

bbmartini

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prcd2wqIgVQ

Hopefully you followed it almost exactly like this video. You see the part in the video at about 1:30 with the lever? your processor should be seated to the socket and shouldn't umm come out like that basically. You said you followed it to a T but something is fucked up there and the CPU and or the mobo may be toast. and best buy kinda fucked you there with that advice.

ASimPerson

Your CPU looks like it's missing pins.

You can try to get it to work again, after cleaning up your mess (use q-tips with rubbing alcohol) but I would be very shocked if that CPU will ever work again.

Anyway, as someone else mentioned, the problem most likely was that you just need to give your RAM a good push back into their sockets, but at this point, well...

Professor Snugglesworth

Unfortunately I didn't have that video handy when setting it in the first time.

But again, new motherboard+new processor+instructional video=no problems next time, right?

taliosfalcon

There is pretty much no way the extra thermal paste hurt the processor. Worst case scenario it would have caused your computer to overheat and shutdown randomly. What could have damaged it is the extra pressure on the pins from being removed/inserted while attached to the heatsink. The main red flag to me is looking at the size of your heatsink, I don't see how you could have hit the processor release lever without removing the heatsink first, its big enough the lever would hit the heatsink. Which seems to indicate the lever was never used in the first place, which would mean there was more extra pressure on the pins.

edit: yeah, if the processor is damaged, and you have a new mobo on the way, a new processor should in theory have you up and running again

wunderbar

ASimPerson wrote: »

Your CPU looks like it's missing pins.

a lot of CPU's have spaces in them where there are no pins.

Here is a good picture of that:

But ya, assuming the processor is dead after you get the new mobo, you can just buy a new one.

Also, pleaes, for the love of god, read some instructions on the proper installation of a CPU.

ASimPerson

Ah, fair enough, wunderbar.

Professor Snugglesworth

Well again, it says my processor is under a 3 year warranty, and I purchased it this January. If I make the call and everything checks out, I'll just ship the processor. It's better than waiting for the motherboard to ship back, testing it out, then waiting some more to ship the processor.

wunderbar

Professor Snugglesworth wrote: »

Well again, it says my processor is under a 3 year warranty, and I purchased it this January. If I make the call and everything checks out, I'll just ship the processor. It's better than waiting for the motherboard to ship back, testing it out, then waiting some more to ship the processor.

Pretty sure what you did to it will not be covered under warranty. Warranties cover normal wear and tear, not tearing it out in a way it was not designed to work.

EDIT: Also, bent pins probably won't be covered under warranty either, seeing as under normal operaion there is no reason for them to get bent.

Professor Snugglesworth

I could always say the pins came bent out of the box....Or better yet, fix the pins, clean the grease, and say the thing simply didn't work or stopped working.

wunderbar

Professor Snugglesworth wrote: »

I could always say the pins came bent out of the box....Or better yet, fix the pins, clean the grease, and say the thing simply didn't work or stopped working.

Honestly, you can try, but usually they are pretty stingy about inspecting those processors. You can try to bend the pins back, but they'll likely be able to tell they've been tampered with. Saying they were bent out of the box will not fly because you've already been using the processor.

You can try, if you get a nice person on the phone, and the person who recieves the part when you RMA it is in a good mood, you might get lucky and get another part, but really, imo, you fucked up, you should be paying for it.

Professor Snugglesworth

Well it's still unknown if I really did fuck up, at least to the point that the processor won't work anymore. I'm just going to give it a shot (they're closed now, calling tommorow), stick with the "it wouldn't work" story (and fixing the pins beforehand). If they reject me, I'll have no choice but to buy another. Even though $60 isn't a huge loss, I am on a very tight budget, so if I can get a replacement for just shipping cost, I'll do it.

Professor Snugglesworth

Just wanted to provide an update on my situation. The good news is I was able to convince AMD to take back my (possibly) faulty processor, using the "wouldn't work" excuse I mentioned before. Not only did they e-mail me a printable FedEx form that allowed free shipping of the processor, but I just received a brand new boxed replacement today in the mail, less than a week later. Very fast, very reliable.

I'm still waiting for Gigabyte to ship back the motherboard, though, since I won't be able to bring my PC back to life without it. I just got off the phone with them, and they said the motherboard is in the "final testing phase", and that the cause was a single faulty chip, which they replaced. I was hoping for a brand new motherboard just to avoid any further problems, but if they're certain that only one chip needed to be changed, I guess that'll be enough. In the meantime, I want to take steps to ensure there won't be any problems once I reattach the parts.

For reference, here's the amount of thermal paste I used on the processor the first time.



So as most of you said, I put way too much paste here. My friend told me beforehand to put a "poop stain's worth" on top, hence why I emptied the whole syringe's worth of paste. So this time, I should only put a tiny smear, only a small dabble that doesn't cover up the processor label, correct?

AMD told me to leave the heatsink behind, so I thoroughly wiped it with a cloth, and it looks good as new.



And aside from using a can of compressed air to clean out the tower, are there any other steps I should take on this second attempt?

Mr_Rose

Thermal grease is for filling the minuscule gaps between the heat-sink and the processor die caused by temperature variations, machine tooling and the codes they etch on the top. Generally, much more than a grain of rice's worth is overkill; you just have to spread it out. I'd expect one of those 5ml tubes to last several years unless you change processors for a living.

Also, the ZIF socket lever beside the CPU socket is different from the compression arm that holds the heat-sink in place - when you install your new CPU, you should be able to just drop it in. If that doesn't work, you are doing something wrong; either the ZIF lever isn't up or the processor is the wrong way round (check out the locator arrows - thy should match the ones on the socket). You should never have to 'yank' the CPU in or out of anything; those pins are far far too fragile for that.

wunderbar

ya, the ZIF lever that Mr_Rose mentioned is the lever just below the CPU in your last picture. when putting the CPU in or taking it out, you raise that lever, put the CPU in, and then lower the lever. This is ZIF, and keeps you from breaking your processor. ZIF = Zero Insertion Force and means you should never, ever feel any resistance when you are taking it out or putting it in.

looks like you have a good idea of how much thermal paste to use now. Emptying a whole tube is nuts. I've had the same tube for 5 years.

So ya, just follow the advice in this thread and you should be fine.

TM2 Rampage

Yeah that's way too much paste, and it's way too uneven. I've heard that it's recommended to use an old credit card or something to spread the paste evenly in a thin uniform layer with no uneven-ness or air pockets.

Actually the newer instructions on applying thermal paste to my Intel Core 2 Duo (the instructions were on the Arctic Silver site http://www.arcticsilver.com ... and yeah I have an old paste of theirs called Ceramique) said to lay down a line of paste in the middle... specifically it had to be oriented a certain way. Then it said to just put the heatsink+cooler on it straight down and it would get spread out. Most likely instructions for your processor will differ.

Professor Snugglesworth

My motherfucking motherboard finally came back today, and after two hours of careful insertions and a smidge amount of thermal paste (although even that might have been too much, as the heatsink was sealed tightly on top of the processor; took a good five minutes of gentle nudging to remove it from the processor, then used tissue paper to gently wipe the top of the processor and the bottom of the heatsink), I plugged everything back, turned on the PC, and prayed.

The good news: It turned on, the BIOS screen is fully visible. The bad news? It doesn't seem to be detecting my primary HDD, only the 500gb secondary drive I purchased before this mess happened. I inserted the Vista disc, and chose the startup repair option. It's been running the startup repair for a good 30 minutes, and it says the operation can't be canceled. How long should I let it run, or should I just turn it off and do a full Vista install on the secondary drive? Is there a chance the other (original) drive will display once Vista is installed on the new drive?

Fartacus_the_Mighty

In the future you may wish to try a thinner thermal paste that uses a brush applicator. I use the Zalman Super Thermal stuff that came with my 9700 cooler, and it's uber easy to get the right amount on. One (maybe 1.5) fully-saturated brushes worth on the processor and the heatsink is all you need.

Professor Snugglesworth

Well I tried changing the cables for over two hours, but no matter what I did, the PC would recognize the 500gb hard drive, but not the original vista-installed one. So I installed Vista on the 500gb one, along with a few programs and Firefox 3.0, and here I am talking to you guys back in my room. Everything seems to check out in the system specs, including the extra RAM (4gb total). Of course if anyone knows some system numbers for Vista that I can look up to see if my specs are in accordance, let me know.

Right now I'm wondering if my previous hard drive is okay, but I won't be able to find out until my replacement power adapter for the USB HDD plug arrives (the previous one exploded when I plugged in the original HDD to it. Yes, I'm aware that might have short circuited it), and I'm out of town until Sunday. I don't suppose Best Buy has a hard drive recovery option, and if so what would the cost be?

It's not the end of the world if I lose the hard drive data (especially since most of it was rolled back from my still functioning IDE hard drive), but I hate to lose a 250gb hard drive over a stupid accident.

bloodr

Professor Snugglesworth wrote: »

Right now I'm wondering if my previous hard drive is okay, but I won't be able to find out until my replacement power adapter for the USB HDD plug arrives (the previous one exploded when I plugged in the original HDD to it. Yes, I'm aware that might have short circuited it), and I'm out of town until Sunday. I don't suppose Best Buy has a hard drive recovery option, and if so what would the cost be?

Hard Drive data recovery services are very expensive. They usually start around 500 to 1000 USD and go up from there depending on the condition of the drive. In your case it sounds "easy". The drive electronics got fried when the power adapter blew up. The data on there is probably still intact. I'd try the drive in a different computer and see if that's a go just to be sure.

This company does data recovery. I'm not endorsing them in anyway, I just know they are out there.

The other solution is to find a way to replace the drive electronics while keeping the same drive. You'd need to find the exact same model of drive and swap the electronics part. So say maybe if you found a drive of the same model that had a physical media failure, it's very likely the electronics part is ok.

Dunadan019

if i were you id just abandon whatever was on that drive unless its REAL important.

there is, after all, a reason you make backups of valuable data

adam

Try making it a slave.

Professor Snugglesworth

I'm not really sure how to make a slave drive out of a SATA drive (it doesn't have those pins like IDE drives), but I tried multiple combinations with the internal cables, and no luck.

Anyway, I just came back from my trip, but my replacement power cord for the USB HDD Adapter hasn't arrived, so I'll have to wait to test the HDD externally. Meanwhile, I took a screenshot of my PC's performance for you to look at. Everything looks fine to me, but if you spot any problems, please address them to me.

The only issue so far, well I'm not even sure it's an issue. It's been weeks since I used my PC, but the fan may or may not be louder than I remember. I can't say with absolute certainty, but if it's normal for the fan to spin louder after being off for a while, then let me know. If not, the fan has an adjusting dial in the back, so if you think I should adjust it, let me know too.