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Landlord/rent issues
Grundlestiltskin
Behind you!Registered User regular
Behind you!Registered User regular
*Disclaimer - I realize that most of what I'm about to address is directly the fault of myself and/or my roommates. Let's focus on constructive suggestions.*
So basically, we're in the last month of our lease at our current residence. You might recall earlier in the year I'd made a post about my roommates and how they typically weren't the best with rent, which has lead to a somewhat adversarial relationship with our landlord over the course of the past year.
We all got a call from our landlord's accountant last Friday wondering where our rent for June was. This struck us as an odd question, because as far as we could all recall we had paid first and last month's rent at the time of signing the lease (none of us have a copy of our own lease, responsible individuals that we are). The accountant told us no, it wasn't last month's rent, it was a security deposit; this has apparently been verified by the landlord as being the clear letter of the lease, though I won't be sure until I see a copy.
He is now threatening us with notice to quit unless we pay rent for June by the end of the week. I don't really have the money to pay for it, because I hadn't budgeted for it. I could get it though.
The bigger issue is that I'm now concerned with what will happen to our "security deposit." I'm reasonably convinced that this guy is, for spite, going to try and keep as much of it as possible. The thing of it is, apparently by law he is required to provide us with a receipt of the deposit, as well as information regarding where that money is held; he is also required to provide us with a list of the state of the apartment, neither of which he did. The place was a mess when we moved in there, and he admitted that he never inspected it before we moved in.
Do we have any options here? Or am I doomed to lose my entire deposit, which I can't really afford? The place is in better condition now than when we moved in, but obviously that is subjective.
So basically, we're in the last month of our lease at our current residence. You might recall earlier in the year I'd made a post about my roommates and how they typically weren't the best with rent, which has lead to a somewhat adversarial relationship with our landlord over the course of the past year.
We all got a call from our landlord's accountant last Friday wondering where our rent for June was. This struck us as an odd question, because as far as we could all recall we had paid first and last month's rent at the time of signing the lease (none of us have a copy of our own lease, responsible individuals that we are). The accountant told us no, it wasn't last month's rent, it was a security deposit; this has apparently been verified by the landlord as being the clear letter of the lease, though I won't be sure until I see a copy.
He is now threatening us with notice to quit unless we pay rent for June by the end of the week. I don't really have the money to pay for it, because I hadn't budgeted for it. I could get it though.
The bigger issue is that I'm now concerned with what will happen to our "security deposit." I'm reasonably convinced that this guy is, for spite, going to try and keep as much of it as possible. The thing of it is, apparently by law he is required to provide us with a receipt of the deposit, as well as information regarding where that money is held; he is also required to provide us with a list of the state of the apartment, neither of which he did. The place was a mess when we moved in there, and he admitted that he never inspected it before we moved in.
Do we have any options here? Or am I doomed to lose my entire deposit, which I can't really afford? The place is in better condition now than when we moved in, but obviously that is subjective.
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I know in Pennsylvania if it isn't returned within a set period of time, state law guarantees that you get double your deposit back. I had a landlord who went AWOL (wasnt returning calls, emails, etc.) after we moved out until I sent him notice of my plan to take legal action based on the above, and my security deposit showed up express mail a few days later. But once again, this is assuming you pay the month's rent.
If he didn't inspect the apartment, he's got no grounds for keeping it, but he figures that you're a bunch of college kids, so he can get away with it. Tell him that just as soon as he returns your security deposit to you, you'll be more than happy to write him a check for your June rent.
I just wish I didn't feel like the guy was actively trying to screw us over, otherwise I'd have no problem just writing him another check.
This is in Massachussetts, btw.
If there are any problems that require fixing then the landlord will use the security deposit to fix it, he will then return you the remaining money.
Think of it this way, if you don't pay this month he has no money to fix stuff you may/maynot have gotten.
If the dude isn't dodgy you will get everything you are entitled to.
Satans..... hints.....
Satans..... hints.....
That should be setting off all kinds of alarm bells. To my knowledge, that means he isn't entitled to shit as far as the security deposit goes, and that is shady as fuck.
Yeah, he's pretty much fucked since he didn't take inventory of the wear/tear and damage on the apartment before they moved in. They could contest it as "oh that was there before we got there." which may or may not be true, and also might be as illegal as hell.
It'd be worth it to me, this is a big issue for me. I basically live paycheck to paycheck, budgeting everything carefully, and I did not budget for having to pay rent this month. If I shell out essentially another month's rent for this, I will not be able to afford the deposit on my new apartment. Since he doesn't have to return a security deposit by law for up to 30 days after we move out, this poses a serious problem for me.
for what its worth, you could end up sticking it to the bastard, but end up breaking even (or in the hole). That's what Thanatos is talking about.
This, of course, assumes you're being honest about that; you should not attempt to dick over the landlord with regards to damage you've actually caused, because that's a seriously asshole move, and makes landlords charge more for college students/young renters. If the landlord is not above-board, he will accuse you of having caused damage that was pre-existing, and insist on you paying the rent in addition to hanging on to the security deposit. I seriously doubt the guy can actually kick you out before the end of June.
I am not a lawyer, nor am I familiar with the landlord/tenant laws in Massachusetts, so you should educate yourself on what exactly your rights/responsibilities are, Grundle.
Basically, the place was a mess when we moved in. The counters were a mess, the place clearly had not been vacuumed. There was regular wear and tear on the apartment, plus some things that we wanted fixed that we noted to him; missing light fixtures, no grate on the upstairs shower drain, things of that nature. He fixed none of those.
As for our part, the worst I could possibly consider us responsible for are some minor marks on the narrow stairway walls from moving in. Barely noticeable, at any rate. We've kept the place mostly clean, have had a cleaning crew come once every two weeks, and have maintained the "yard" (it was overgrown with weeds when we moved in, roughly 3 feet high) that was one of the selling points of the apartment.
We think he's pissy because in addition to the rent issues, the place hasn't always been immaculate when realtors have come by to show it. This obviously makes it more difficult for him to rent the place, but we aren't legally obligated to tidy up for prospective renters; he also never asked us to do so.
Do you have a copy of your rental agreement on hand? Sometimes the agreement says not all of the deposit is refundable anyway. Most commonly, they set aside some money for cleaning the carpets.
I don't think it quite works that way....I guess this is dependent on the exact laws of Grundle's area, but as far as i've ever seen (rented 3 places and 2 school dorms), the landlord is responsible for doing the inspection if they want to be able to later claim you damaged something.
Many states have laws regarding renters rights. If you can prove that you left the place in good condition, you can take your landlord to small claims court and, since many slumlords don't document anything about their properties, you usually win. It's easy with digital cameras -- just take a lot of pictures when you move in, and then again when you move out, if you think it's going to be a problem.
Yeah where I live the landlord is required to keep track of that shit. If they don't, the burden is on them. This tends to be the norm for lease agreements, isn't it? Don't they get fined if they don't make an inventory before hand (which has to be signed and dated by both the landlord and the tenant)?
Most of the reason this is ringing all sorts of alarm bells is, again, the "didn't do an inspection when you moved in" thing. If it weren't for that, I'd totally be saying you should pay the rent.
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"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Then again, that would be a situation where it was our word against his. He did not, however, provide a statement of condition.
Although the state of condition on the lease for my new apartment just says "good." That's super helpful.
I'm guessing yes.
I photographed everything. The only issue there that I saw was a dip in the ceiling that they're repairing before I move in...at which point I will photograph everything again.
That is, if I have any money left for my deposit.
I believe I got back no less than 90%, maybe all of my deposit on my first apartment in college, and it probably took no more than 2 weeks, maybe a month. Of course, I cleaned the hell out of that place, but I was surprised that they didn't take a bunch of money out of the deposit from the sizeable holes I drilled to install an ikea bookcase.
To be clear, this guy didn't do an inspection, but did he offer up any paperwork of any kind covering the issue of damage and the state of the place? Maybe it wasn't a full listing but was some line of text in the lease?
I've never had the renting agency inspect apartments with me, and the last place gave me a sheet that said that everything in the apartment was assumed to be in perfect condition unless I noted otherwise.
well some states, the landlord needs to do a walkthrough inspection before renting, usually after you go through and note all the dficiencies yourself. since he didn't do that, you havea leg up on him should it go legal. that being said since you are college kids, before he goes to do the exit inspection, make sure you go through and clean it super well and photodocument the condition of things. when i moved out of my first apartment to move out to CA, i cleaned it super well, and left it at that, the rental place pretty much tried to take my entire deposit for "cleaning charges". they tried to take advantage of me being young. they also pulled the same shit on my friends who lived in the same complex. what they didn't count on was havinga pissed off jewish mom fighting them. though i secretly think my mom payed the charges for me. but i didn't worry about it since i moved to CA and didn't think they would try and track me down
that being said and probably irreadable.
cover your ass before leaving the apartment, photodocument etc.
do your walkthrough with the landlord/rep. if you don't they will mark you down for things that is ridiculous especially if they are trying to screw you over. my last landlord tried that on us and her cursed her out in front of everyone. it was great considering i don't ever raise my voice. i have a lot of horrible stories about that landlord.
make sure you get an itemized invoice for any and all repairs/cleaning the landlord needs to do/has done with copies of the receipts. it has to be a fair market price. from the apartment above, they tried to charge me over 300 dollars to clean my kitchen which basically consisted of the fridge less than 8 sq. feet of counter space and some cabinets.
some states vary but you have up to 30 days to get your deposit back.
From my experience, in every house/apartment I've lived in the landlord has done an inspection and recorded any damage and provided me with that information. It is always advisable that you also check things out when you move in to make sure they didn't miss anything (or "miss" something that they will later fuck you on.) In the case of the dorms that I have lived in, you were given a checklist and expected to do a damage check yourself and then submit that and keep a copy for your records. I would say in your case, since he didn't do an inspection AND he did not inform you that you were expected to do an initial inspection that would be verified by him when you move out, you are in the clear. Again, this is assuming that there is no language like that in your lease.
Check the lease. If it says "first and last month's rent," then fuck him. If it doesn't, then you may have a problem, but you may just be able to do nothing if your security deposit is equal to the month's rent.
Also, remember that if you are going to pay and then he is going to give you a security deposit back, he owes you the deposit + interest.
this. its all in the wording of the lease, you should re-read it.
also for the second part, that depends on the state i think, though its been almost 2 years since the landlord from hell.
As far as my experience has been the security deposit has to be kept in a completely separate account expressly for that purpose.
Also, if he is going to take your security deposit for "damages," he is REQUIRED to provide you with an actual receipt/proof of estimate and he MUST BE SPENDING THE DEPOSIT FOR THAT PURPOSE. The landlord cannot just say "I'm taking $500 for the damage you did" and then not repair that damage.
Just as further encouragement, tenant laws are for the most point rock-solid and designed to prevent tenants from getting fucked by assholes. If you are in the clear then the law is most definitely on your side, and there are people who will fight for you if your landlord decides to screw you. The reason college landlords fuck their tenants over was outlined by Than:
1. It's probably their parents' money
2. They (tenants) are lazy/leaving
3. They (tenants) don't know their rights.
Your city/state tenants association have people who are willing to help you if your landlord digs his heels in. But most likely, if he tries to pull some crap over on you, a stern conversation over the phone or in person making it clear that you are not going to put up with bullshit will make them back off if they know what they're doing has no legal standing.
EDIT: I'd just like to point out my shitty landlord story, which is why I know about this stuff. I lived in a total dump house in college - one of those places that was neglected by the landlord and every tenant who had lived there. My friends and I treated the place incredibly well - we gave it a complete and thorough cleaning and scrub down before we moved everything in, and kept it clean. When we moved out we scoured the place again. During the time we were living in the house, it was almost foreclosed on, and was sold to a couple who were obviously first-time landlords. The wife appeared to be the one in charge, and they knew what they were getting into when they bought the house (that it was a dump.) We were present when they looked at the place. When we moved out she proceeded to try to charge us over $1500 for "cleaning" the house, which was complete and total bull as the house looked better when we left than when we moved in. The previous landlord had made a video of the house as it was before we moved in, when we asked to watch it with her and compare, she balked, saying she "didn't have it" (too bad for her as that was her responsibility to work it out with the previous owner.) Eventually we talked her down to just taking a tiny fraction of what she originally wanted (mostly because I was sick of dealing with her, and split up between the tenants it came to $10-$15 apiece.) The best part was that during this experience she vowed never to rent to college students again. Being a college neighborhood, the only people she could get to move into that craphole were total deadbeats, who ended up completely wrecking the place. Karma's a bitch.
tl;dr: Fight for your rights.
Also, in some places they are required to pay you interest on the security deposit. Though in the one place I lived where this was the case it depended on the number of units in the building -- had to be at least 25 I believe.
Try being nice to him explain the situation and invite him round and show him that you have not damaged the property.
Try being nice first, if not then you are going to have to play hardball.
Satans..... hints.....
"(c) Any lessor of residential real property, or his agent, who accepts a security deposit from a tenant or prospective tenant shall, upon receipt of such security deposit, or within ten days after commencement of the tenancy, whichever is later, furnish to such tenant or prospective tenant a separate written statement of the present condition of the premises to be leased or rented. Such written statement shall also contain a comprehensive listing of any damage then existing in the premises, including, but not limited to, any violations of the state sanitary or state building codes certified by a local board of health or building official or adjudicated by a court and then existing in the premises. Such statement shall be signed by the lessor or his agent and contain the following notice in twelve-point bold-face type at the top of the first page thereof:
'This is a statement of the condition of the premises you have leased or rented. You should read it carefully in order to see if it is correct. If it is correct you must sign it. This will show that you agree that the list is correct and complete. If it is not correct, you must attach a separate signed list of any damage which you believe exists in the premises. This statement must be returned to the lessor or his agent within fifteen days after you receive this list or within fifteen days after you move in, whichever is later. If you do not return this list, within the specified time period, a court may later view your failure to return the list as your agreement that the list is complete and correct in any suit which you may bring to recover the security deposit.'"
As far as any of us can remember, he failed to do this. He certainly did not inspect the house.
"(3) (a) Any security deposit received by such lessor shall be held in a separate, interest-bearing account in a bank, located within the commonwealth under such terms as will place such deposit beyond the claim of creditors of the lessor, including a foreclosing mortgagee or trustee in bankruptcy, and as will provide for its transfer to a subsequent owner of said property. A receipt shall be given to the tenant within thirty days after such deposit is received by the lessor which receipt shall indicate the name and location of the bank in which the security deposit has been deposited and the amount and account number of said deposit. Failure to comply with this paragraph shall entitle the tenant to immediate return of the security deposit."
He most definitely did not give us any receipt or information of this nature.
"(6) The lessor shall forfeit his right to retain any portion of the security deposit for any reason, or, in any action by a tenant to recover a security deposit, to counterclaim for any damage to the premises if he:
(a) fails to deposit such funds in an account as required by subsection (3);
(7) If the lessor or his agent fails to comply with clauses (a), (d), or (e) of subsection 6, the tenant shall be awarded damages in an amount equal to three times the amount of such security deposit or balance thereof to which the tenant is entitled plus interest at the rate of five per cent from the date when such payment became due, together with court costs and reasonable attorney’s fees."
I think what people have suggested is right; this guy is probably hoping we'll just cowtow and give him more money. We're going to let him know that taking legal action probably isn't in his best interest, as indicated by the cited passages. Hopefully he decides to be reasonable at that point.
That said, and statute of limitations aside, it looks like you're in the clear if you had to proceed in court. You might want to get the opinion of one of our local lawyer peoples first though.
So my roommate who's the point of contact for the lease talked to the landlord on Tuesday of last week. He said that of the conversation, the landlord was going to come and look at the place on Saturday and verifying that in fact no damage had been done to the unit. Come Saturday, the landlord didn't show up, and didn't call.
I got home today and there was an envelope filled with notices to quit sticking in my door.
Thoughts? I'm really ticked off at this point.
As far as I can recall, the notice to quit is supposed to be served, they're supposed to verify that we received it, and it's supposed to be on some kind of official form. These are printed on the landlord's stationary, and they were delivered in an unsealed envelope with no postage and an "ominous" stamp which would appear to indicate that the envelope is from the city of Boston constable's office.