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[Doing it wrONg] Chaos Theory, percentiles, linearity and you.

Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital ConquistadorLondonRegistered User regular
edited June 2008 in Games and Technology
"I put it to you that you would enjoy this game more if they didn't show you those numbers, and that's fucked up".

My name is Flippy, and I'm a perfectionist.


If I'm not winning, I get annoyed. It's a bad character flaw, but nonetheless it's there. Most of the time it's not a problem in games, because unless you plain give up, you will win. Eventually. But sometimes, it causes... issues.

Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory.
wallpapersplintercellchaostheory021280_2.jpg


I quite enjoyed the first Splinter Cell, and SCCT got fairly glowing reviews. So what the hey. I get ahold of it and start playing.

Massive disappointment. Why? Because there is an inherent and irreconcilable problem with the damn thing.

Let me first get this set down clear: I can't allow myself to knowingly fuck up. Right? Bear that in mind.

At the end of each mission, you get a round-up, much like in Hitman, of how well you did. And there's a percentage. The best outcome, is, naturally, 100%. That's fine. Hitman has Silent Assassin, right? Well, there is a bit of a problem: 100 individual percentiles means there are (theoretically at least) 100 little ways to fuck up. In reality it's a bit more leniant. But anyway, the main fact is that your success is quanitfied, very obviously and unequivocally.

I do not want to see that number if it's not 100.

Again, that's fine. I play, and I score the 100s, and feel pretty pleased about that...

... until I realise that, hang on a moment, I'm not having that much fun playing this. It's repetitious in extremis. And why's that? Because there's only one thing that will work.

- Put out the lights
- Split up the guards
- Grab
- Interrogate
- Knock out

And you just do this over and over again because there are no other viable options. You can knock people out with an airfoil to the head every now and again, and very occasionally a sticky shocker is useful, but really you're going to be repeating the above process ad nauseum, because although the game designers give you a lot of tools, almost none of them are worth it. For example:

I'm crouched in a corner having snuck into a missile base. Three guards are here. It's a cramped room and I'm reluctant to start dicking around as there seems to be a small margin for error. So I take a look at my stuff - all this equipment I've had no need of - and find I have some knockout gas for my launcher attachment. Perfect. I lob it at the feet of the guards.... and nothing happens.

See, turns out the cannister has a timer on it. It takes a couple of seconds to blow. A couple of seconds that is plenty of time for the alarm to be raised.

I'll cut to the chase: the issue is that one cannot, simultaneously, play openly and get 100%. This seems like a terrible design flaw to me. You have to either avoid guards (made impossible much of the time), or do the darkness-sneaky-grab-KO. Over and over. And over.

Is this my problem for not being able to enjoy the game unless I get 100%, or am I right to accuse the game of double standards - or at least inconsiderate development?

It seems pretty clear that I should loosen up, right?

I'd just like to counter though, with that greatest of games, and still the very best stealth game that exists:

Hitman: Blood Money
hitman_2_04.jpg


Featuring:
- Multiple ways to get Silent Assassin!
- Mix-and-match approaches to levels!
- A variety of equipment that is actually useful!
- A scoring system that still allows you to play how you like!

etc.

Whilst Hitman exists, is it really that unreasonable for me to be disappointed with Splinter Cell, where I'm forced to approach every encounter in the one, workable method?

p8fnsZD.png
Flippy_D on

Posts

  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    This sounds like more of a problem with you than the game. Although I will admit that I didn't like the Splinter Cells because of the trial/error gameplay.

    EggyToast on
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  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    When I saw the thread title I thought it was about this game: http://steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=app&AppId=16500

    Peewi on
  • limitbreakerxlimitbreakerx Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Try playing without knocking out guards. Or play Double Agent. Knockouts/kills count against your stealth score. Also, in hard mode, you don't start with any bullets for your rifle or pistol.

    Keep in mind.. Splinter Cells are sneaking games and thus should not reward your for being un-sneaky. If you don't like what's involved, you should play something else. On that note, I agree with you that it does get repetitive after a while and the trial and error sucks.

    limitbreakerx on
  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    It's not so much not liking what's involved - more that there are so few options open for people who want to play the game in the way that the developers are deeming correct.

    Flippy_D on
    p8fnsZD.png
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    I'm crouched in a corner having snuck into a missile base. Three guards are here. It's a cramped room and I'm reluctant to start dicking around as there seems to be a large margin for error. So I take a look at my stuff - all this equipment I've had no need of - and find I have some knockout gas for my launcher attachment. Perfect. I lob it at the feet of the guards.... and nothing happens.
    ?

    That brings you down to 95%. Good luck enjoying this thread :lol:

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    DAMMIT.

    Flippy_D on
    p8fnsZD.png
  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    If perfection is what you're looking for, you should throw the score out the window and aim above the limits of the scoring system and explore all of the game's possibilities and skillsets. (Namely, effective use of all of the tools.) When you screw up, you'll know it. When you don't, you'll know it.

    I'm not saying don't try for the best--I'm saying don't let some limited scoring system tell you what the best is.

    Darlan on
  • tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Too bad you'll never get 110%.

    how does that make you feel

    tofu on
  • KogareruKogareru Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    If you're not playing Chaos Theory for the 2vs2 multiplayer you are doing it wrong. Single player was fun and all. but this game truly shines in it's multiplayer mode. I'll never forget sneaking around with a good buddy and setting traps for the mercs taking them out or hacking an objective while a friend hacks another. Alternately running around as mercs and fragging spys is great fun as well.

    Kogareru on
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  • ChildrenChildren Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    developers are deeming correct.

    I think you are looking into this a bit too much.

    Children on
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  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Children wrote: »
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    developers are deeming correct.

    I think you are looking into this a bit too much.

    Not... not really? It's a grade on a 1-100 scale and you have to fulfill a set of parameters in order to get 100. 100% = success = the right way to do it. Who makes that decision? The developer.

    Maybe I misunderstand you.

    Flippy_D on
    p8fnsZD.png
  • RhakaRhaka Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I have this issue, kind of. I also greatly enjoy the Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents series. But moving on to the next stage is hell D:

    Rhaka on
  • ChildrenChildren Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    100% = success = the right way to do it.

    This is the part I disagree with.

    Beating the level = success

    the right way to do it = however you want to, it's supposed to be fun.

    Children on
    360 tag: A Blue Mushroom
    skate, halo 3
  • DaxonDaxon Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Rhaka wrote: »
    I have this issue, kind of. I also greatly enjoy the Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents series. But moving on to the next stage is hell D:

    As of yet I have still not gotten a single S-rank. I feel horrible.

    On-topic: I had the same problem, in fact I never finished the game because I could never be happy when I screwed up. I did play and finish co-op with a friend; that was fun, like really fun. Sadly the co-op was way way too short.

    Daxon on
  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    This kind of thing is why I lost interest in the Megaman Zero series. WHAT DO YOU MEAN E RANK? FUCK YOU

    BlueBlue on
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  • ImpersonatorImpersonator Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I loved this game, especially the multiplayer portion of it but yeah, Flippy, you should maybe try and forget about achieving a perfect score. You're just forgetting to have fun, which is the primary objective of playing games, and instead have turned it into a chore.

    I just felt joy whenever I got a score above 90% as long as I was having fun :)

    Impersonator on
  • DaxonDaxon Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Rhaka wrote: »
    I have this issue, kind of. I also greatly enjoy the Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents series. But moving on to the next stage is hell D:

    As of yet I have still not gotten a single S-rank. I feel horrible.

    On-topic: I had the same problem, in fact I never finished the game because I could never be happy when I screwed up. I did play and finish co-op with a friend; that was fun, like really fun. Sadly the co-op was way way too short.

    Daxon on
  • T-BirdT-Bird Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    the 'only one way to get 100%' thing is exactly why I don't play Splinter Cell, far to linear and just repetition all the way.

    T-Bird on
  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Oddly enough I felt it was more fun to get a lower score in this game as that meant you could just dick around , and blatantly shoot shit up and crack some necks for fun. It's to bad it has to be that way

    Dixon on
  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    T-Bird wrote: »
    the 'only one way to get 100%' thing is exactly why I don't play Splinter Cell, far to linear and just repetition all the way.

    Wha? The other Splinter Cell games may be quite linear but Chaos Theory usually gives you options. Most levels have a at least a few alternate paths. Some objectives can be completed in more than 1 way and you have secondary objectives that can be completed right away or saved for a later mission. You also have a choice of different loadouts to fit your playstyle. It's not that linear as far as stealth games go.

    Fireflash on
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