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Need help with Computer.
Chrispy
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I've had it with my existing PC. I built it about 4-5 years ago and I'm looking to build a new one (I built my first one). I made a thread some time ago about getting parts and you guys helped. Well I'm done sitting on my lazy butt and actually going about it now (I have money now =P). Side note: This will be a gaming PC at it's heart.
This is what I have so far:
Case
Motherboard
Processor
RAM
I'm getting the case definitely, so the parts have to be around that. These looked like the best and were decently priced. If you have any experience with any of these or any comments, please state them. If you think something is better, also state it.
What I'm looking for now is a power supply and video card. I don't really know what I'm looking for as far as power supplies go. I know I need enough watts, but what is enough and what is more than I need. I'm also really lost with video cards. I believe something with 512 MB or higher, but outside of that, I'm not sure what I should be looking for. For both of these I'd like to keep it under $200 for each, but I'm willing to go over with the video card.
I'm stealing my sound card, hard drives, disc drives, monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. from my old computer so I don't need to worry about that.
Any and all help is great. Thanks in advance.
This is what I have so far:
Case
Motherboard
Processor
RAM
I'm getting the case definitely, so the parts have to be around that. These looked like the best and were decently priced. If you have any experience with any of these or any comments, please state them. If you think something is better, also state it.
What I'm looking for now is a power supply and video card. I don't really know what I'm looking for as far as power supplies go. I know I need enough watts, but what is enough and what is more than I need. I'm also really lost with video cards. I believe something with 512 MB or higher, but outside of that, I'm not sure what I should be looking for. For both of these I'd like to keep it under $200 for each, but I'm willing to go over with the video card.
I'm stealing my sound card, hard drives, disc drives, monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. from my old computer so I don't need to worry about that.
Any and all help is great. Thanks in advance.
~ Make life how you want it ~
Chrispy on
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Posts
This power supply. I'm a particular stickler for power supplies.
Will Intel be kicking AMD come 3 months from now? Why do you say it's kicking arse? Just looking for reasons.
I was going to stick with XP, but as far as the RAM goes, I know 2Gb would be enough, but on Newegg, I only see one DDR2 1066 stick at 2 Gb and it's almost 10 bucks more than one of the sticks I have currently picked out ($119/2 ~ $60 : or $67). So it's cheaper in the long run. It's also not really going to hurt anything to go 4Gb.
I mentioned the case thing because for a little more money you could get a case/PSU combo like the Antec Sonata III and save some cash.
I'll check out that case. Thanks
Aside from that, I haven't looked at Intel CPUs yet, so I don't have one to ask about yet. Thanks for your help though.
Proof?
Intel is actually hilarious. For years, they did this whole "higher GHz = faster!" marketing stuff and completely kicked AMD's ass, yet AMD steadfastly refused to build ridiculous shit like 31-stage pipelines and replay algorithms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_system) just to artificially pump up the megahertz number at the cost of actual performance.
AMD instead worked on multithreaded cores, a proper 64-bit architecture, and instruction-level parallelism, among other things. People said that AMD was making a horrible decision, and they should just optimize clock speeds to gain a short term business advantage over Intel.
About a year and a half ago, Intel was like "oops, we really messed up here." They hit a barrier on clock speed and realized that clock speed optimizations absolutely eat up power and produce tons of heat for almost no benefit. There are 3GHz Intel processors that are only about 10% faster than 1.9 GHz INTEL (not AMD) processors, but they burn a proportionally higher amount of power.
Now, AMD has the upper-hand with advanced architectures and well-designed chips, whereas Intel has a bunch of really hot, really power-inefficient chips and a research staff that is publicly admitting that they have no idea what to do next. Ironically, Intel's marketing department is now working really hard to undo all of the myths that they put into consumers' minds about clock speed being equal to processor speed. The truth is much, much more complicated and depends on not one, but three variables (that themselves depend on tons of things as well, including how the computer is getting used).
So, I say again: proof?
tl dr: I'm an engineer, buy an AMD processor for cost, performance, heat/power concerns, and general philosophy that a marketing department shouldn't be able to dominate engineers until horrible decisions get made
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127325
I feel obligated to temper your enthusiasm. The situation you're describing sounds very much like the state of things in, say, 2005. AMD made a big push forward architecturally several years ago (in the 2004/2005 timeframe) and was clearly dominating Intel, until Intel released the Core 2 architecture chips in 2006. AMD has been playing catch-up ever since, although the new Phenom processors close the gap substantially. Still, Intel is holding its own - though it's a point sample, this article shows a comparison between relatively recent, similarly-priced processors from Intel and AMD (surprisingly, I could find few other recent comparisons). Here, despite being about the same price and only 100 Mhz faster, the Intel-based system was about 10% faster overall than the AMD Phenom.
AMD also lost quite a bit of ground in late 2007 when a bug in the Phenom caused all kinds of havoc. it was fixed, but it delayed wide shipping of Phenom until 6 weeks ago. Meanwhile, Intel has at least six months' lead on AMD in 45nm manufactring. Penryn is shipping.
So basically, up until Phenom started actually shipping in earnest just weeks ago, the Core 2s had really leapfrogged AMD's early advances. Now it's closer race but I think Intel still has the (small) advantage in the near-term.
Of course, all this is purely academic for somebody buying a single computer rather than, say, a datacenter. The heat/power issues are going to be of minor concern. Price/performance ratios are suitably close - see if you can find a specific review or comparison for the chips you're looking at. The elegance of any particular chip architecture is really irrelevant unless you're buying stock in the company - for a person buying a single computer, the only architectural quality that matters is how fast it executes those x86 instructions. And while you may feel better about AMD's treatment of engineers vs. marketing, it doesn't give you any more FPS.
3ds friend code: 2981-6032-4118
I guess I'll just look around some more, reading reviews and price checking.
EDIT: I don't think anyone saw this but: how does a MOBO of size 11x12 fit into a case that's only 7.8 inches wide? The last case link, Apevia, is the one I'm referring to.
Um, where have you been in the past year and a half. The intel Core Architecture (and now the Core 2) is pretty much a completely different chip from the P4, which are the chips that you are describing. AMD *did* kick intel's ass for about a year and a half, but with the Core 2 Duo launch, Intel is absolutely spanking AMD in the performance market.
What you are saying was true in 2005, but i woke up today in 2008.
No. It matters incredibly. For one thing, the processor you selected is slow and has a pitiful amount of cache.
This is an incredible bang for your buck.
Also, are you daft? A motherboard is like an inch wide... of course it can fit in the case.
It's 7.8 inches wide looking at it from the front.
Don't listen to CrystalMethodist, he's been smoking the first 11 letters of his username. An AMD processor is your best bet if your objective is open up your Newegg order and remove obsolete parts.
As a longtime and fierce AMD loyalist, it pains me to agree with the good Mr. Celchuuu, but it's true. AMD's processors are, in many regards, sufficient. My desktop uses an x2 6200+, and I love it. However, with the price cuts Intel is making across the board, there's no real reason to stick with AMD right now. The Phenoms are nice, but the Core 2 Quads are that much nicer.
- If your goal is to minimize cost, go with AMD. They're not currently competitive in terms of speed, so they're competing on price at the moment.
- If your goal is to maximize performance within a particular budget, go with a Core 2 Duo or Quad from Intel. For all but the very low end of the spectrum, Core 2 parts currently outperform Athlon parts at the same price point.
This article, while a little old, has a fairly solid comparison of last-generation parts, and the state of affairs they found is pretty much the current status quo. At the same time, tests of Phenom (AMD's new architecture) have shown that it has trouble outperforming last-generation Athlons in many computing tasks, for the time being at least, which means it's going to fall well short of Core 2 Duos at the same price point.Ok, I think I have a decent configuration now, lets see what you guys think:
Case - I'm going to go with this one. I like the color.
MOBO
CPU
RAM
Video Card
PSU - If I don't take the one out of my current setup.
The prices are in the area I want. Good speed and size for each piece, it seems. Comments and suggestions are welcome.
EDIT: Video Card link fixed.
2.) Unless the video card you selected is absolutely gargantuan, that PSU is overkill.
This one should be all you'll need.
naknaknaknaknak
Power supplies have gone south on me more dramatically than any other component, and more frequently (in the past) than one might think -- I simply cannot in good conscience advise anything else.
I don't have a problem with recommending a reputable brand or something with stable amperage, but if your system won't make use of it there's no real point to having a capability for greater total wattage.
How about this one or this one, then?
Those look fine to me, assuming his video card selection is reasonable (I imagine it's either an 8800 GT or an 8800GTS 512 mb). Personally I've never used a PC Power & Cooling PSU, but I'll take your word for it that they're reputable.
Let me check on the power supply I have. I'll edit this when I get that information.
EDIT:
Thermaltake PurePower
ATX 12v
AC Input
115v 10a
230v 5a
Frequency: 50-60Hz
Max Load 420w
I'm pretty sure it's a 420w. It looks kind of difficult to get out, but I'm sure I could use it.
What you want is 500+ watts on a Quality Brand Name power supply that is affordable. Personally your rig looks good to me for a budget gaming rig. Currently graphics cards are the fastest advancing technology and get out-dated the quickest, but it still might be cheaper & better to get the 9600gt and just upgrade your video card in a couple years rather then get an expensive one now.
I bought myself a more expensive 9800gtx (512mb), but only because it was on sale for $275, I was going to go for an 8800gt.
from best (and more expensive) to less expensive
9800 x2
9800gtx = 8800 ultra (personally I went with the 9800gtx because its cheaper)
8800gts (make sure its the 512! the 640mb version is worse then an 8800gt!)
8800gt (512)
9600gt (512)
1gig ram on a cheap video card is only useful if your gonna SLI it, 9800 x2 has 1gig because its basically 2 cards in one.
At the time of your purchase, I would check what the best offers are on these cards. if the next one up is on sale for only like 20 bucks more then the one your looking at i'd consider it.
An 8800gt will run anything including Crysis on a 19inch monitor with no problems, I expect the 9600gt would do so also. If you have a 24 inch monitor you might want to go with a beefier graphics card.
As mentioned, a 32bit operating system can only use 4 gigs ram total, including Ram, Videocard ram, and devices....so really only 3gigs of your 4 gigs will get used by windows xp 32 bit (normal windows xp). $100 for 4gigs of fast patriate ram is a good deal tho, even if you only use 3gigs. If you want to save a little money though, 2 gigs of ram is enough for any game out right now if your using windows xp.
I'm only using 4gigs of ram because:
Vista is bloated, but honestly I got it solely because I wanted Directx10, and I haven't had any problems with my Vista 64bit. Vista is not the devil incarnate, its just not compatible with all old software, so between being bloated and being incompatible, no one wants to use it on their slow ass work computers. I'm guessing you already have an operating system tho, so I would not bother buying vista if you can load an xp OS for free.
I have used AMD graphics cards and processors and they work great, but right now I think Nvidia and Intel have the lead in graphics and CPU's respectively. 3870 is an ok graphics card, benchmarks well, but FPS doesn't seem as good as nvidia's cards for the same price. I checked out the phenom processors and went with a q6600 instead, I looked at the 9450 but it was too expensive for me, I can just overclock my q6600. Quad core might be more hype then substance right now, but I figure multi-threaded games will be coming just like DX10 games will be coming.
Snob though I am, I used a Thermaltake for a long time without issue. If you're using the 9600GT, it should be fine, the 8800 requires a bit more juice, so you might want a new PS for it.
if your running a single hard drive, one cd/dvd combo drive, one video card 8800gts/8800gt/9600gt or similar then 420 watts should be fine. If you've got lots of stuff to power you might need more, but its your computer is just the basics 420 watts is fine.
MOBO
CPU
RAM
Video Card
PSU - No link, it's a moot point at this point. I'll deal with it later.
Lets try this, all the links are correct. The Vcard is now an 8800GT.
The set up will be normal. I have a DVD and a DVD burner drive. Also my sound card is an Audigy that came with a front panel thing that will be in one of the 5.25 bays. I'll look into a PSU later, something around 500w and is a big name brand, got it.
HDD : 160(M) and 200(S). I was thinking of getting a 500 or 750 and replacing the 160. Maybe even two of them and replace both.
Monitor: 17 inch. I'd like a 21 inch or, when I get the money, a 24 inch.
Keyboard: It's a keyboard. Nothing special really.
Mouse: See keyboard
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy, there was a platnium and possibly an X in there some where. I can't recall off the top of my head. It came with a front 5.25 panel thing. I don't see a new to replace it.
Enjoy!