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Rye
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Edit - Nevermind!
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You handled the situation well enough, from what I can tell. It sounds like you weren't being mean about it, and it's perfectly reasonable to forgive her for what she did while establishing a zero tolerance policy for such antics in the future.
Communication here is key. You need to be able to talk to her, and she needs to be able to listen. You need to be able to tell her, for example, exactly what you told us about your free time gap: how you have much less of it than she does, and how while she feels neglected, you feel a little smothered. Getting something like that out in the open isn't really a criticism so much as a statement of fact, and if she's a good girlfriend she'll be understanding (and hopefully her job will keep her busier).
Speaking of criticism: sounds like she has an inferiority complex, so you'll probably need to be extra super careful to frame "criticisms" as constructive suggestions (e.g. "Why don't we start going to the gym together?", not "You're getting out of shape."). Meanwhile, you need to try to help her get over herself. Tell her that you absolutely refuse to hear her self-deprecate herself around you and that you will believe none of it. My friends and I have a "self-deprecation jar" which we have to donate loose change to whenever we insult ourselves - maybe this would be helpful in getting her to have more self-esteem
And as for the sex: you're not superficial in thinking it important. Her hang-ups are serious ones which have brought down relationships stronger than yours. You really need to encourage her to talk to someone, preferably a psychologist, about some of her problems, because they're probably not going to go away with time.
Finally, don't be afraid to break up with her. I don't think you would have posted this thread if you weren't considering it already. If the girl continually refuses to communicate, empathize with your positions even when she doesn't agree with them, or show you a basic level of respect, then you need to show her the door. Sometimes relationships need to end even if you love the girl, because it's unhealthy to continue being with someone who's such a practical mismatch for you.
I agree with everything he said.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The specific incident of being drunk with older friends I wouldn't worry too much about, since it sounds like she handled herself somewhat well, given how drunk she probably was. But all this other shit you're talking about is a pretty big deal and she would probably do well to have a disinterested 3rd party involved (therapist) to help sort it all out.
It sounds like you really do care about her, but it also sounds like you're putting up with a whole lot of shit and not getting much out of the relationship in return. Gotta say, if I were in your shoes I wouldn't stick around for much longer if things didn't get better.
I'm not calling her a parasite, but what options do you have in this relationship? You see a problem. She refuses to get help for it, either from 3rd party persons, medication, or from you. She says she could forsee herself never having sex with you, or possibly anyone. She's afraid of penises and pregnancy to the point of eliminating her sex drive.
You can tell us, and her, that sex isn't an issue, but if sex wasn't an issue it wouldn't be a part of your conversations with her, or with us. So you should just admit that "sex is an issue." And, more importantly, you should tell HER that.
But seriously dude, is there anything you could do or say to her that would change it? You've gone through a lot with this girl, and taken advice from us in the past, and nothing's gotten better.
I have two bits of advice. One, have sex with the girl. If you won't do that, then drop all sex talk from the relationship. Do not talk about it -- do not bring it up. Kiss her in a loving way, but no making out, no "foreplay without the play." If you're cool with that, you can wait for her to be ready. And if she's cool with that, then you know you can help her work through her problems.
If neither of you are cool with that, then there's a serious problem. In a sexless relationship, you don't talk about sex. That's, you know, the point. Otherwise, you're just sexually frustrated and trying to cover it up. If you were heavily religious, or highly possessive of virginity, or had some philosophical, ulterior motive, maybe it would make more sense. But your post reeks of sexual frustration.
It sounds like this girl has suffered considerable abuse, probably sexual, when she was younger. I've heard such similar things from girls themselves who cry every minute of their stories, saying they do these things and can't help the way they are or the way they feel. They can't bring themselves to tell their SO and usually end up breaking it off because despite the nearly physical NEED to let this person know, they don't feel like they can, and in many cases have had it turned around on them in fights later. They sometimes look for people who are "safe" and will make them feel comfortable, but eventually sabotage the relationship because they don't know how to get help, or how to help themselves, or what to do.
Is this definitely what's going on here? No. She's cheating on you. Her behavior is terrible and she's treating you like a doormat, regardless of the underlying cause. There's no reason you need to put up with this, and she's really not your responsibility.
BUT. She needs help. A lot of help. Much more help than you can be, and you can't just give her all your time and expect it to really help her because you aren't a therapist. She needs to be encouraged to see someone fairly intensively and over a long term. If you feel like you love her enough to be with her on a conditional basis while she works this out (the condition being that she IS getting help), then kudos to you. But that's optional, and you can't force her into therapy if she doesn't want to go.
Just know that giving in to her every whim is not going to help her. She needs therapy, and you can't be therapy. Where you want to go from there is up to you, and should be based on your feelings with the girl tempered by how much you're willing to put into staying with her.
This may sound harsh, but it may be time to move on. I think you two are looking for different things in the relationship. That, compounded with the fact that there are obviously some unresolved mental health issues with your girlfriend. It sounds like she doesn't want to get help for her problems from a trained professional, and that you want to help her. Unfortunately, you don't have the intimacy in your relationship that comes with having sex. Sex is not just about getting hot and sweaty with someone and then getting your rocks off before rolling over and having a smoke. Sex is an integral part of building intimacy in a relationship. Without that intimacy, you may not be able to make the connection you need to in order to actually have any effect at helping her deal with her problems.
You say you don't want to force her to have sex with you. That's very noble, and I applaud you, sir. But it also means that you should probably be taking steps to end this relationship.
EDIT
This makes her sound more like a cock-tease, or a lesbian-in-denial. I don't mean any offense by that, either. I think it's like someone else mentioned earlier. You're the wrong gender for her, but neither of you have been honest about that.
edited to add: aaron sums up what I've been skirting around myself -- having sex is what makes a relationship serious, in my book. There's a bonding that happens (at least, for most people) that doesn't happen when you're just grinding on each other.
Rye, I know from your past threads and our PMs that you've taken this relationships slowly and cautiously, but a relationship is about being happy with someone. It sounds like you're just torturing yourself more and more. What about this girl makes you happy?
There's a difference between a relationship going bad, and the people in a relationship going through a bad spot in their life. A bad relationship eats both of those involved. But a good relationship can weather bad news because the strength of the bond the people share is enough to support them through those bad times. For example, there's a reason that wedding vows typically do the "rich or poor, sickness or health" thing -- because you're there for the person in all times, brightening their day. But no vows include "cutting and OCD and lesbian freakiness" that work only to destroy the actual relationship itself.
8 months isn't super-long, but it's long enough at your age to get a feel for the girl. Could you see yourself marrying this girl? Staying with her for the next 5 years? Do you want to have kids in your future, and could you see yourself having them with her? (Kids usually involve sex, after all) What are your plans? How does she fit?
If your only future together is "hopefully she improves mentally," that's not so great.
But what about her makes more "more than a buddy"? My wife and I are essentially tied at the hip; we do everything together. But that's because we also do everything together even without friends. It's good that you don't have to be different around her, but that sounds like a comment about when you're with a group of people. What about just the 2 of you? You've said above that you self-censor yourself...
I can understand that being virgins make it a sticky situation, but intimacy does not come from sex, or making out a lot, or being alone. It's about understanding how someone ticks. You 'figure them out.' Sex should be icing on an already delicious relationship cake. Yes, by itself it's too sweet to have all the time, but I'm not sure if your cake is any good.
Well, you're barely out of college -- that's what everyone thinks. Do you never plan to have sex with her? Are you not ready yourself? If not, that'd be a great way to thwart these problems. If you are, and with her, then there's something deeper that you're hiding to yourself.
It can take a long time, and for some people you more mentally intimate by becoming more physically intimate first. For others, you become mentally intimate and then that helps you be physically intimate. You can claim that you're mentally intimate, but you also say that she erects barriers to keep you out.
And option one is "have sex" because you say that the plan is to have sex. Which means that, truthfully, a lot of this does stem from sexual frustration. By that, I don't mean "Rye is horny," but that you both seem to have a lot of hangups over a relatively basic act of love, her especially.
The thing is, you can KNOW someone really well, and still just be best friends with them.
Trying to get your girlfriend to go on "the pill" or use some other birth control is an unnecessary head-ache if you do everything else right. It's probably worth getting a "plan B" pill in case a condom breaks. You should get comfortable and familiar with putting a condom on before you use one with her. As per another H/A thread, fumbling with a condom prior to the act is a huge mood killer.
If virginity is a big issue you could highlight that it is about connecting with her physically and emotionally and that your glad you can be each others "firsts" and do this together (first time sex is more often stressful then blissful, but it gets better fast). You should make it clear that you love her and that you want both of you to be ready and not feel pressured. Explain how you enjoy your current sexual encounters and feel they bring you closer together as a couple and you're ready to go further when she is.
I don't know what you guys get up to, but cuddling or giving her a back/foot message both during sexin time and when you're just chilling out and talking can go a long way to building intimacy. I'm not sure what yard stick your girlfriend uses to measure intimacy. By my reckoning if you're been spending all your free time with her for 8 months and are already performing sexual acts together you probably have enough intimacy for intercourse. Does she want you to meet her parents and go through photos of her growing up or something?
I really feel for ya, man. I guess if the happiness she brings outweighs the shit she brings, keep working at it. But personally, I'm not feeling a whole lot of happiness here. Honestly, nothing you've said makes me think she cares about your feelings or happiness in the slightest.
I don't disagree with this per say, but we are only hearing one side of a story and he seems fairly happy with her so I don't want to point fingers. I think it is safe to say that 90% of the time a guy posts about his girl problems on H/A, it's because there are relationship problems that could justify simply ending the relationship.
And here the other thing you don't have to accept it. Relationships are about compromise yes, but you have to stand up for yourself. Sometimes you have to ruin the other person's day because you need to talk about something that is important to you. I'm not saying be a dick but having your needs that need to be met in the relationship is normal. Just because she has issues doesn't mean you should give her a pass on any bad behavior on her part either.
I'm curious but is this your first serious girlfriend?
He may be like Pokey said and have some sort of "I can fix her!" thing going on, or maybe they were happy in the beginning and he's subconsciously hoping to get that back somehow.
I guess my point is that this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship and she doesn't seem to be willing to do anything about it. In a situation like that you can either keep pounding away at it, or cut your losses and wait for someone that matches you better to come along. Because no matter how happy you think you are right now, I guarantee if it doesn't work out you will meet someone else that makes you just as happy or happier eventually and it will be even awesomer.
If the sex does not happen then at least you have gotten some interesting reading done and are prepared for future sex. I recommend sex for dummies. Seriously.
but they're listening to every word I say
Girlfriend gets it on with another chick while you are nowhere around = cheating
That seems like an incredibly specific circumstance, but it has happened with a coworker of mine. I've never been in that position, but my gut tells me it wouldn't be a big deal to me. Definitely wouldn't fly with every couple though.
I've been going out with my girl for a bit over 2 years now, and at first she was exactly like your girlfriend.
She too didn't want to have sex until after marriage. Not because of any religious issues, but because she was extremely paranoid of pregnancy. She flatly stated this to me several times and as you can imagine I didn't take it too well. This led to lots of arguments, some crying, near break up, lots of painful times, but looking back it was something that we had to go through so we both understood where each other stood on the issue.
For her, it was essentially the fear of pregnancy. Pregnancy meant having to care for a child and a derailment of her life's plans. She comes from a relatively low-income neighborhood and saw first hand many of her high school classmates become pregnant and what that was like. Additionally, pregnancy meant that her parents would know that we've been having sex, which to her was a big deal and something she did not want them to know about, even though she was already legally an adult. (This was also the reason she couldn't do birth control, because her parents would find out and presumably be very angry)
For me, sex was about, well... basically me being horny :P Yeah, that sounds horrible, but as a guy in a relationship with a girl who he finds amazing and attractive on so many levels, there's that sexual urge that you can't fully suppress, no matter how hard you try. I also had an undercurrent of inadequacy, due to me being a virgin and that gnawing fear that everyone else is doin' it except you, and somehow that makes you less of a man.
In the end we conveyed to each other our fears and our needs and we came to an agreement. We talked about it a lot, and I recommend you do the same. Get your thoughts out there, but remember to give it time. It took us a month or two until we had an agreement, and we hardly argue about anything. The majority of the time we are really similar and mesh so well. Also be aware that they will be difficult arguments. At times she would get really mad at me and say that she felt I was just using her for sex, and it took a lot of effort to not get really offended and convince her that we are trying to work though this for the betterment of our relationship. That I loved her and wanted to come to a compromise that we could both agree on, because relationships are based on compromises.
It seems like you and her get along really well, so if this is a big issue to you don't hide it. I'm sure she will be willing to work it out with you. Bring it up, but definitely don't make it about anyone being at fault. There simply is an issue in your relationship, as there always are in all relationships, and you want get rid of it to make things better for both of you.
Also, I feel like sex is something that will naturally come about in a relationship. The compromise in my relationship was that we would continue non-intercourse :winky: and that intercourse simply wasn't going to happen due to the small but real possibility of pregnancy. I agreed and dropped the whole sex thing, but guess what happened anyways a couple months after this agreement? Sometimes we look back and laugh about how big of a deal we made everything. It seems so silly in retrospect, but at the very least we know now that we can communicate to each other and settle whatever problems we have. And that's really the most important thing.