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A Second Language: Dutch?
starmanbrand
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Alright, so. I am earning a bach in accounting and would like to work for one of the international firms. As such, I think it would be a benefit to learn a second language. I would be doing this on my own time, as I dont want to waste school credits on taking a language.
As for the language, I am thinking of Dutch. Now this is based, mostly, on my personal ties to it. I've enjoyed watching Oranje on the field, I'm half dutch, and I'd like to go to Rot Erasmus to earn a masters. Plus I also enjoy the fact it is a more obscure language.
But is that last point a hindrance or a benefit in the world of business?
If not Dutch, then what? I am suspecting a lot of people to say Mandarin or Japanese, but i would just like to exclude those from the get-go.
Also: Anyone here learn dutch as a second language? From what I can gather it is difficult to learn because of some of the sounds.
Too Boring; Didn't Read: I want to learn dutch to help my accounting/finance career. Is Dutch too small of a language to be of any real use or is there demand because of the limited number of speakers? If not Dutch, then what languages?
As for the language, I am thinking of Dutch. Now this is based, mostly, on my personal ties to it. I've enjoyed watching Oranje on the field, I'm half dutch, and I'd like to go to Rot Erasmus to earn a masters. Plus I also enjoy the fact it is a more obscure language.
But is that last point a hindrance or a benefit in the world of business?
If not Dutch, then what? I am suspecting a lot of people to say Mandarin or Japanese, but i would just like to exclude those from the get-go.
Also: Anyone here learn dutch as a second language? From what I can gather it is difficult to learn because of some of the sounds.
Too Boring; Didn't Read: I want to learn dutch to help my accounting/finance career. Is Dutch too small of a language to be of any real use or is there demand because of the limited number of speakers? If not Dutch, then what languages?
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Most dutch under the age of 50 speak some english, and under 35 it's usually decent enough for conversation. Students and Profs will usually speak it nearly fluently. (Though with bad accents almost all the time) Classes at Rotterdam may even be english (your textbooks almost certainly will be). But if you come over here, an attempt to speak will be applauded, and it may help with every day stuff (The cashier at the supermarket or grocery store will probably not be so fluent, and some government documentation is only in dutch).
Lastly, dutch is a very... gutteral language. If you haven't grown up with it, heavy practice will strain your throat probably, and no matter what you do, your g and ch sounds will always betray you as a foreigner.
Dutch is only spoken in the Netherlands (and Antilles, Suriname), though it's close enough to Afrikaans that you can understand them too.
Some background in french and german will help immensely with learning the language, if only for the vocabulaire, which is about 70-80% borrowed from french, german or english.
Oh and if you wish to see some dutch in action, go to www.uitzendinggemist.nl This is the dutch public broadcasting website, which shows programs made with public funding that aired within the last two weeks.
Immigrants who have been here for years and years (or even "foreigners" born here) will mess up the word genders.. Most speakers don't actively know the "language guidelines" sander mentioned, relying on experience. But for newcomers, those rules are all you have to hold on to, and many fuck those up for the rest of their lives.
The mormon missionaries who come over here from the US seem to be doing a rather good job at the language, however... so if you're serious about it, it's possible.
also, not to nitpick, but Dutch is also spoken in Flanders, the northern half of Belgium.
I had Dutch friends online who would tell me about how much of a pain in the ass the language can be to learn because there are exceptions, and then more exceptions, and exceptions to those exceptions, etc.
In the end, I went with German because it was the closest thing to Dutch my university offered. I loved it, and when I finally visited the Netherlands, I found I was able to understand a word or two here and there when my mom spoke with her aunts/uncles/cousins who spoke no English.
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Now, the problem is that Dutch is not spoken in so many places as English, Mandarin, German or Spanish, so you will be limited in certain way in terms of usage.
I have seen many North Americans learn Spanish in less than two years that makes me think how easy our language is. Now again, Spanish is limited to Spain, Central and South America, and some places like Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic and Cuba.
So, it is up to you, if you really think you will enjoy learning Dutch it and it will be useful, you just need to go for it.
Good luck.
What I am trying to discern, though, is if this language would be useful to have as a second language. Is having any second language as valuable as having another or is there a certain ranking that would make Dutch useless to know? I saw the ranking based on speakers, but that doesn't really seem to apply to financial items.
1. Mandarin (by far the most useful).
2. French
3. Japanese
4. Arabic (seriously, UAE, anyone?)
5. Spanish
I'd say Punjabi, but anyone in India who is involved in business speaks English. French is actually one of the two official languages of international business (English being the other one), and in addition to letting you communicate with the French (as well as Canadians), many countries that are large emerging markets are former French colonies, and so speak a lot of French (Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.). Plus, between French and English, you'd be able to communicate with most of Africa. Cuba and South America are going to be big emerging markets in the future, too, not to mention Mexico (if they ever get on their feet).
These languages are assuming you're looking for more of a language that could apply a lot of places (with the exception of Mandarin, which I mention because the Chinese have a market that dwarfs almost any five countries put together). If you wanted to focus on a specific region with a high growth potential, you could learn something like Bahasa Indonesia or Javanese for Indonesia (though, Dutch would help there, too, and Bahasa Indonesia is a lot like Malay), Farsi for Iran (and a couple other countries in the area), Portuguese for Brazil, or Thai for Thailand.
Most places where Dutch is a main language, though, English is going to be a primary language, too. I mean, you can learn it if you want, but as far as usefulness in the business world goes, it would be near the bottom of the list.
However, if you do want to learn it, it would help if you have some experience with German. The languages really are very similar and the German students that come to study over here (I live just over the German border) usually learn to speak Dutch fairly quick if they're dedicated to learning it. Two of my German flatmates even managed to do it almost without any accent within a year.
I am going to agree with Thanatos on this: French is a very useful language in large parts of the world. It is really complex as well, although mostly because there's just a lot of rules. Thankfully there aren't really any exceptions to these rules, so if you learn all the rules you will not make many mistakes.
If you are really serious about learning the language I'd advice you go to an African country (preferably one not thorn apart by internal strife), the French there is a lot slower and better pronounced than that spoken by people in France (and I guess Canada as well).
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Oh and if anyone is wondering why so many Dutchmen write and speak nearly perfect English: we come in contact with it a lot, TV is all subbed and not dubbed, videogames are hardly ever translated and we learn the language in school from age 9 and up.
Also, if you know English and German, you can get pretty far learning Dutch. It's this weird kind of the two languages mixing together. If you were to watch the news there, you could get 50% of what they're saying right off the back. It's pretty cool actually, just watching Dutch TV and you get the idea without even having to look at the screen to follow along with, and you're so happy that you learned something you didn't even expect to learn.
Dutch would be nice as a third language, not a second. It kind of sucks, really; the Netherlands teach English and their contact with the UK/US pop culture is so constant that they're kind of making it not necessary to learn Dutch unless you are a Dutch citizen. They're too good. Other countries should follow their lead in learning English.
English is the lingua franca. What I would suggest - since you're doing this on your own time - is to learn English well, and study some of the nuts and bolts of it and other languages. It can be extremely difficult to learn a foreign language when you don't have a foundation of basic linguistics to build up from. Do you remember what a subject is? Do you know how that relates to the nominative case? Do you know the difference between a direct object and an indirect object? A transitive verb and an intransitive?
These sorts of thing are intuitively picked up by native-language speakers - just like a car, you don't need to know how the engine works to be able to sit behind the driver's wheel. That said, it becomes helpful when learning new languages (more so with those that have a completely different structure than English), especially if you are not a wunderkind with languages or are getting past the age where, for many, learning new languages becomes more intellectual than intuitive.
This is if you intend to go truly international. If you want to regionalize, than you'll be okay just with your English and the most widely spoken language in your area. If you really plan on working in Holland, then your ability to speak Dutch as a second language probably won't be as important as you think. You will likely pick up enough to get by just by being there, and I would venture that if it is anything like the Scandinavian nations, the populace will probably want to speak English with you anyway the second they detect that you are a foreigner.
Kind of depends on where you are and who you are talking to. In tourist areas or with people with a bit of education behind them it won't be a problem or they want to exercise, but otherwise you might just get rude replies in Dutch or people going "dun ssshpeek englissshh".
Not to mention that an American accent will probably get you rude replies in every language in the world these days. :P
If Than pokes his head in here again: Any reason why German is not on your list?
Oh, Russian is another fun language to learn, by the way.
Here in B.C., there is a very large Sikh community, with the result being lots of Gurdwaras and really tasty food. If you can find yourself a Gurdwara, go and check it out, because they offer free lessons in Punjabi which are usually open to everyone, and they also give anyone who comes by a full meal of the best Indian cuisine you'll find outside of the subcontinent.
If you want to stick with a European language, definitely go with French. And don't listen to Thanatos - there's nothing wrong with a good joual. The Parisians are just pretentious.
The four biggest economies in the world are the USA, Japan, Germany, and China (China has surpassed Germany if you look at it from different economic angles). China is going to be #2 in 10 years, possibly #1 in 20 years.
Germany is the largest economy in Europe. French, while nice and idealistic for the aspiring artist, is not what it once was, especially when it comes to business. Germany is also expanding more and more into the US because of the weak dollar. Some of the world's biggest financial institutions are based in German speaking nations.
In business, you can't go wrong with English and German.
Also, Joual is awesome, bloody Parisians don't know what theyre missing, Tabernac!
But true, german is a strong financial and industrial language. German is spoken in all of eastern europe, all the way up to the balkan. With both english and german you can talk to anyone from europe, apart from some french/spanish/italian people who refuse to learn any foreign language at all. German is also very structured, and while that means there is a lot to learn, it's also understandable. (Unsurprisingly, the germans appear to have rules for everything).
Aus Außer Bei Mit Nach Seit Von Zu (Gegenüber)
Also, their English quirks are funny, like "I'll see it through the fingers" or "I like to give the word to". One time I've heard a Dutch person thank the cock for the lovey dinner.
And for you Québécois: I speak French, and while I've lost a lot of it, I can inevitably get a good idea of what someone is writing in French; the way I can tell something is Québécois is I see it, and I don't have a clue what in the world it's saying, even though it looks vaguely French. :P