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Girl/pregnancy - advice needed
dbx indy
Registered User new member
Registered User new member
So, my current girlfriend is pregnant, neither of us have any interest AT ALL in having a child at this point, but the situation is a complicated mess due to some other factors. I'm hoping to get some viewpoints from outside observers.
Here's some background (as brief as possible): I'm a mid-20s dude, still very much a bachelor, no desire to change that any time soon. Dating a woman who's nice enough, but it's a casual relationship for me - I like to see her once a week or so on the weekend, sometimes once or twice during the week. She wants more than that, and I've told her (pretty bluntly) it's not going to happen, but we continue to see each other. I suspect she's just convinced she's going to "change my mind".
Anyway, this woman is fairly fun and interesting, but she has some issues. Big issues. She's a little older than me, has two kids aged around 6, is stable in certain ways but a total basket case in others. She's on a billion prescription meds, Xanax, mood stabilizers, I'm not sure what else. She has (and has had for years) a severe eating disorder where she simply doesn't eat at all; I don't know exactly what it is, but it's one of those things where your stomach doesn't have bacteria in it anymore, etc. She does eat dinner and such when I'm with her, and she's been working with a nutritionist, but it seems she still often doesn't eat anything at all in between weekends when I see her.
As if that weren't bad enough, the thing that CAUSED all of these issues around six years ago was a huge mental breakdown, the result of (you guessed it) - pregnancy. She basically can't stand pregnancy, having children was her worst nightmare and the only reason she had children at all was that she couldn't stand up to her psychotic husband. Who she's still married to, by the way (but separated).
She was at the hospital today because of some bleeding, and I guess the pregnancy is close to 4 weeks in by now. They didn't even let her leave the hospital without a blood transfusion; she had a blood hemoglobin level of 1.7, which is significantly less than healthy (apparently you must have a hemoglobin level of 8 to even get an abortion in Michigan).
Request for help/TL;DR: A woman I've been seeing is pregnant, not healthy enough to have an abortion, and likely to go stark raving mad if she sees the baby to term (since the mood stabilizers that keep her sane generally aren't prescribed to pregnant women). I have zero interest in being a father, and certainly no interest in being involved with someone crazier than she already is, but I'm not sure what to do about it.
Here's some background (as brief as possible): I'm a mid-20s dude, still very much a bachelor, no desire to change that any time soon. Dating a woman who's nice enough, but it's a casual relationship for me - I like to see her once a week or so on the weekend, sometimes once or twice during the week. She wants more than that, and I've told her (pretty bluntly) it's not going to happen, but we continue to see each other. I suspect she's just convinced she's going to "change my mind".
Anyway, this woman is fairly fun and interesting, but she has some issues. Big issues. She's a little older than me, has two kids aged around 6, is stable in certain ways but a total basket case in others. She's on a billion prescription meds, Xanax, mood stabilizers, I'm not sure what else. She has (and has had for years) a severe eating disorder where she simply doesn't eat at all; I don't know exactly what it is, but it's one of those things where your stomach doesn't have bacteria in it anymore, etc. She does eat dinner and such when I'm with her, and she's been working with a nutritionist, but it seems she still often doesn't eat anything at all in between weekends when I see her.
As if that weren't bad enough, the thing that CAUSED all of these issues around six years ago was a huge mental breakdown, the result of (you guessed it) - pregnancy. She basically can't stand pregnancy, having children was her worst nightmare and the only reason she had children at all was that she couldn't stand up to her psychotic husband. Who she's still married to, by the way (but separated).
She was at the hospital today because of some bleeding, and I guess the pregnancy is close to 4 weeks in by now. They didn't even let her leave the hospital without a blood transfusion; she had a blood hemoglobin level of 1.7, which is significantly less than healthy (apparently you must have a hemoglobin level of 8 to even get an abortion in Michigan).
Request for help/TL;DR: A woman I've been seeing is pregnant, not healthy enough to have an abortion, and likely to go stark raving mad if she sees the baby to term (since the mood stabilizers that keep her sane generally aren't prescribed to pregnant women). I have zero interest in being a father, and certainly no interest in being involved with someone crazier than she already is, but I'm not sure what to do about it.
dbx indy on
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There's no more to be said as far as I can tell. He's spot on. You probably didn't want to hear that advice, but it's the best (as in most true) advice you could get at the moment.
There is one more thing to be said... have you been steadfast in your use of condoms and other forms of birth control? If not, get ON that. This pregnancy is as much your fault as it is hers, and if you didn't want it to happen you needed to take some serious precautions... so once this reaches whatever conclusions it will reach, make sure that you understand how to use birth control properly, and use multiple methods if you are truly scared of it (or don't have sex at all... though that tends not to be practical). Did you use protection, and/or was she on birth control? If the answer was no to either of those, consider the usage of the missing one(s) seriously before having sex again, with anyone.
Do be prepared to call CPS if her mental condition goes downhill, because her kids really don't need to be around that.
She's likely not healthy enough to carry a pregnancy to term; anoretics usually can't, because they don't have enough body fat to support themselves + the pregnancy. Once you remove the idea that she might be able to keep you around with a baby, she might actually wise up and do the right thing by getting herself in shape for an abortion.
i'd suggest another medium then 'random internet forum' for this kind of serious advice..
I think the OP was implicit that the baby is his.
And it's going to be a vote for counseling from me, and here's why.
a) You shouldn't have been with this girl. You know that, we know that.
b) You've now created a bond to her, unless an abortion comes on the cards (or some of the things that Trowzilla outlined transpire).
c) Your mental health will be improved if you don't carry her as emotional baggage, but this would mean running out on a pregnant girl.
d) You haven't said whether you want the kid or not, but your tone seems resentful that this has happened at this time, with this girl. You might also be thinking about skipping out on the kid as well (but paying child support), and you might feel you'll be happier that way.
I'm not advocating any course of action. I'm not going to try and communicate a moral or logical argument to anything. This is just the things in front of you.
The unhappy conclusion is that whatever happens, if the baby is born, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it's guided by your conscience alone. You should talk to a counselor, who will help you straighten your own thoughts on what to do from here. It's something you need to do for yourself, so you know you made the right decision for you.
Third time is a charm.
First of all, stop being her boyfriend. She's waaaaaay too crazy to be in a relationship, and she may be keeping herself too unhealthy to get an abortion in an attempt to keep you around. Tell her you'll support the kid if she has it (and I would suggest suing for custody if she does, because there's no way that woman should be raising kids at all. Talk to a lawyer about this if she does keep the pregancy). Stop dating her, stop fucking her, stop everything. Offer to take her to the doctor if she needs you to, because you have a stake in the pregnancy, but otherwise, no more relationship things.
The only other thing I can think you could consider is to take time off work, bring her to a doctor for advice/councelling, and eat every meal with her making sure she does eat and it is healthy food that will make her strong enough to get an abortion. (I think some good old red meat is good for building up hemaglobin but don't overdo it, 1 steak a day is enough, also, I am not a nutritionist...)
And yeah, not healthy enough for an abortion...doesn't sound like it would be a very healthy pregnancy either. I wouldn't count on a miscarriage though, lots of underfed people all over the world carry their child to term. As embarrassing as this kinda thing is, I would totally go to my parents for advice right away if it was me. You're in a rough spot, you need all the help you can get.
She's not eating just because she is deciding "oh hey, not eating is easier." She has mental/physical illness.
I also don't think the OP should be looking to get more involved with this woman's issues.
She needs to appeal to the doctor very clearly that there is likely a far greater risk to her health in going through with the pregnancy (I know that there are jurisidictions - not in the U.S. - with even stricter abortion prohibitions that will accept "suicide" as a reason for why a pregnancy endangers the mother's health and can be terminated). If that doesn't work, be researching abortion laws/policies in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio or even Ontario; or possibly consulting with a lawyer.
Well, I can't say if it would work or not, but my understanding is that she does eat when she is with him, so I figured it might be worth a try. Getting more involved probably is not the best answer, but if eating properly for a week or two would get her the abortion she wants it could work.
She's pregnant with his child, and it looks like she's carrying it to term. He's directly responsible for this situation, and for the child's wellbeing. He has three options on the table right now:
- They decide to attempt an abortion. In which case, he needs to proactively work to get her healthy enough for one, because obviously she can't be trusted to do so herself.
- They decide to (or are forced to) have the child, and he chooses to do the right thing and be in the kid's life. In which case the whole situation is infinitely smoother for having a qualified relationship counselor involved from the start.
- He bails out, she has the child anyway, and the kid grows up without a father. If that's what you think the OP should be doing, at least advise him to get counseling for himself and a good lawyer.
I think encouraging him to turn his back on a situation that he's responsible for is horrible advice. He needs to be a man here and do right by her, and if she can't have an abortion, he needs to do right by his child, too. Does it suck? Yes, it sucks. But this is real life, and he knew what he was getting himself into.Also, I'm not really sure why no one has mentioned adoption. Being forced to carry the pregnancy to term for one reason or another doesn't mean being forced to raise him/her. Even if she doesn't want to keep the baby, if she absolutely cannot get an abortion due to poor health, you can give the child up for adoption. I know that there are safe places to drop off a newborn if needed.
Let me step in right now to give some brief information with regards to the law.
One, if she has this child, unless you live in a horrible horrible country, you are legally responsible for providing continuing financial support for that child until he/she turns 18 (21 in some places, YMMV). Whether you're only involvement with the child is the money directly taken out of your paycheck every month, or you hoist the 'World's Greatest Dad' trophy in the future, you have to provide financial support. Don't think otherwise.
Second, If you want to be involved with the child, that's great, but being you're unmarried and seem reluctant to change that status, it would be my recommendation for both of you to seek out an attorney about filing a custody action, even if the two of you are in complete agreement over the who/what/whens of taking care of the child. Handshake agreements are great and all, but it will only lead to trouble the second one party breeches the agreement and you have nothing to fall back on.
Other than that, I think everyone whose suggested you are three stages beyond PA Forums help are absolutely correct. You need professional help. She needs professional help. Get professional help.
I'm not encouraging him to do anything with regards to the child. I think that she is toxic, but the child is anything but. Like I said, I don't think it's my place to make any sort of moral judgement about how he handles things with regards to the child from here. It's easy to play moral superiority, but the OP seems to be in a really bad place.
I wouldn't dare try to place any sort of moral weight on any decision taken without having been in the situation myself. I have my own feelings about it, but I don't think that me giving those opinions is helpful to the OP working out what is best for him.
not the end of the world, but being a responsible parent is the end of a lot of your personal life if you like to you know, often go out to places where drinking alcohol/smoking/picking up the ladies takes place. even if the places where you choose to go are baby-friendly, it's still a much bigger deal to actually go there.
unless you have a lot of local family or others who you trust to care for the kid while you do your thing. the poster is "a mid-20s dude, still very much a bachelor, no desire to change that any time soon."
if you're gonna be a father, be present at least.
A pregnancy is like a billion times more rigorous than a simply (if somewhat invasive) medical procedure.
The OP already explained clearly and concisely that she is indeed too anemic to have an abortion. I would hate to see him go to his partner and say, "Somebody on the internet tells me you CAN'T be too anemic for an abortion, so grab your jacket and get in the car".
Look, guys, this is literally a matter of life or death. His girlfriend could die from the abortion. She could die from carrying the child to term. I'm not even a regular here anymore, but I've watched this thread all day because it's really serious stuff. I don't feel like any advice we could provide beyond "seek qualified help immediately" can be constructive. In fact, I think it has the potential to be incredibly destructive. Please consider the reality that the OP's girlfriend could die as result of this pregnancy, and think carefully about your replies.
Yes, this didn't make sense to me either. Given her mental state, are you sure she's being honest about 'can't have an abortion'? It is the very very very very obvious next step, so you need to hear a doctor say that before you believe it. Obviously if she is lying about it (or self-deluded) you can't make her have one, but you will be more knowledgeable about your situation.
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Limed for truth.
Also, for God's sake, use a rubber next time.
"I had a baby and I live with the mother" is radically different than, "I had a baby with someone I don't live with"
Depends on the type of anemia, there are several kinds, there is no real "cure," as most think of the word for most forms of anemia. Some, like aplastic, are close to terminal.
I'd go back to the place you checked, because I think you got some bad information.
buy warhams
Less bad than incomplete, but yes, thank you.
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I will, however, comment on the lab values you mentioned. Did they really tell you that her hemoglobin was 1.7 - because if so, she'd be dead. Female hemoglobin values are around 12.5 to 16.5. My last severe GI rupture patient that bled out on my bed and died had a final hemoglobin of 4.2. I think you may have misheard, or the person you spoke to was confused. I mean, how much blood did they give her before letting her leave? It'd have to be something like 10 units at least (10 bags). And even then they would have put her in the ICU overnight.
Also, the reason they require a Hemoglobin of 8.0 is because of the risk of bleeding out during an abortion.
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Also a hemoglobin of 1.7 is in compatible with life. Like, dead people have more hemoglobin than that. At a hemoglobin of 1.7 you're deader than dead. If she is healthy enough to be outside a hospital carrying on activities of daily living then most certainly she has enough Iron to have an abortion. I smell bull crap on the part of whomever told you her hemoglobin is too low to have her go through an abortion. Might be someone twisting the facts to make you do what he/she believes is the 'right' thing.
Seriously, get a second medical opinion. Again I will vote for planned parenthood. Them peoples know what they are doing.
re: the hemoglobin thing - I know it is extremely low, I may have been thinking of ferratin (ferritin? it's something related to iron, I read the lab results but I don't know anything about it.)
Either way, last night she had a miscarriage, which was fairly messy physically and emotionally. In the end I think it's a bullet dodged for both of us, though. I haven't ended the relationship yet, but I will very shortly - I want (for better or worse) to give her a little breathing room between the miscarriage and a breakup.
Consider this story over and myself a little bit wiser (I hope).
Aw, come on. Not to be too critic of the guy, I'm sure he's having a tough time, but... come on!
I mean, is your advice really to run away in the opposite direction of the deppresive woman with bad health you just got pregnant the moment she's not pregnant anymore? Come on!
If anything, it's her who worries me. He's fine. He's healthy, doesn't claim to be insane and he's not fucking sick and pregnant. I agree with others that this is no place to sort his life out since, well, we don't even know who he is, but from his story it doesn't seem he's the one in need of help or advice at all, much less THAT piece of advice.
I mean, come on!
Wow, I'm so sorry you had to go through all this.
I am sorry you had to go through this as well... but please, make sure that you are very careful in the future. Use protection if you don't already, and use multiple forms of it if at all possible... and if you find the possibility of having a child with a given woman to be extremely undesirable, you may want to consider the fact that there's always a slim but possible chance of it happening. It's worth thinking about before you do The Deed(tm). It'll save you a lot of trouble.
Yeah, it was a shitty situation from beginning to end, but OP was well aware he shouldn't have been messing around with this woman.
Hopefully this experience will mean he'll be more careful next time.