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Sharp learning curves in video games.
Meiz
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
DwnFwd, Bk, DwnBk, Dwn, DwnFwd, Fwd, DwnBk, Fwd + HK + LK
This is Laurence Blood's desperation move from a little gem called Fatal Fury Special. It is the one move, the only move that I have never been able to master to the point of getting it to work when I wanted to.
What got me to make this sort of reference was this little article on Kotaku:
http://kotaku.com/5026780/bionic-commando-has-control-issues
Yet, when I see the trailer here, my mouth waters:
http://kotaku.com/5026548/new-bionic-commando-trailer-screens
Personally, I like to have a challenge. I enjoy having to press buttons and make some sort of a conscious decision of movement and angle when performing acrobatics. What I don't like is holding down a button and seeing my character play the game for me. Assassin's creed, I'm looking at you.
The point I'm trying to make here is that I'm never going to give myself the impression that I can't do anything. I am however aware that there are such things as bad control schemes and cameras. But if someone's right there in front of you showing what can be done, what's your excuse on the matter? I wouldn't have one. I'd simply try to overcome my shortcomings or admit defeat, plain and simple.
So what are your thoughts on this matter? What games have seemingly been plaguing you for so long due to problems attaining a level you're comfortable with playing and avoiding total frustration?
This is Laurence Blood's desperation move from a little gem called Fatal Fury Special. It is the one move, the only move that I have never been able to master to the point of getting it to work when I wanted to.
What got me to make this sort of reference was this little article on Kotaku:
http://kotaku.com/5026780/bionic-commando-has-control-issues
Yet, when I see the trailer here, my mouth waters:
http://kotaku.com/5026548/new-bionic-commando-trailer-screens
Personally, I like to have a challenge. I enjoy having to press buttons and make some sort of a conscious decision of movement and angle when performing acrobatics. What I don't like is holding down a button and seeing my character play the game for me. Assassin's creed, I'm looking at you.
The point I'm trying to make here is that I'm never going to give myself the impression that I can't do anything. I am however aware that there are such things as bad control schemes and cameras. But if someone's right there in front of you showing what can be done, what's your excuse on the matter? I wouldn't have one. I'd simply try to overcome my shortcomings or admit defeat, plain and simple.
So what are your thoughts on this matter? What games have seemingly been plaguing you for so long due to problems attaining a level you're comfortable with playing and avoiding total frustration?
Meiz on
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That shit is almost vertical.
Just because someone can do it doesn't mean it's not bad design. I mean, I've seen speedruns of the NES Ninja Gaiden, but that doesn't mean that I'll feel bad for not beating it, because it's broken.
And it was all worth it because pile driving opponents is the best goddamn feeling.
Vertical?
F-Zero GX: Going from the increasing difficulty of Grand Prix to the increasing difficulty of Story Mode.
Ikaruga: Let me break it down for you:
I WILL NOT BE DOING 3DS FOR NWC THREAD. SOMEONE ELSE WILL HAVE TO TAKE OVER.
Spoiler contains Friend Codes. Won't you be my friend?
More Friend Codes!
Mario Kart Wii: 3136-6982-0286 Tetris Party: 2364 1569 4310
Guitar Hero: Metallica: 1032 7229 7191
TATSUNOKO VS CAPCOM: 1935-2070-9123
Nintendo DS:
Worms: Open Warfare 2: 1418-7870-1606 Space Bust-a-Move: 017398 403043
Scribblenauts: 1290-7509-5558
Was just about to post this. Just picked up the game a few days ago with some leftover MS points and it's been kicking my ass.
In short, the game is so difficult you actually TRAVEL BACK IN TIME over a horrible underside of a cliff, then after you can climb atop it's smooth sailing.
I think.
Well, there was the training room and firing range and such.
Portal is my best example for this. The only time Glados really comments on what your doing is with "flinging" because it is a little more advanced than the other gameplay elements. Even then, she does it a unique, funny way so most people don't even realize it.
It's one of those games where even the developers aren't sure how some of the stuff works.
Really everything up until L14 in portal is a tutorial. If I recall, that was pretty much the main goal they had with the gameplay, from what was said in the developer commentary
I know (knew) that guy. He's the greatest gamer I've seen in my entire life at everything he touches. It's ridiculous. That said, I was never happier in my life than when Ninja Gaiden was kicking my ass, roadblocking me for hours at a time. Being able to see myself improve and really have to try to do well at the game is what I had been wanting for a long time. So, yes, full interactivity and as much surmountable challenge as possible.
Try X2 with no manual.
Also, 632146 on the Xbox d-pad can go to hell.
Ninja Gaiden and God Hand are great at kicking your ass in the beginning but forcing you to improve, to the point that you can go back and destroy earlier bosses without much effort.
I asked some top ranking Geometry Wars players how they do it. Other than pausing the action for the occasional break, one of the big things for staying alive was reacting to the sound of enemies that may be on or off screen, and then going through the motions required to avoid them and survive.
That's pretty much the same concept with Space Giraffe. Everything makes a unique sound, so all you have to do is react properly.
I'll second the hate for required tutorials. Bleh. No thanks.
I tend to play a game without even readin the manual or in-game control diagrams. if I can't figure something out, then I'll go back.
I thought it was hilarious when people couldn't fire the cannon on Mass Effect.
It's a giant tank and you didn't IMMEDIATELY press every button to see what it did?
Are you winding it up in the air or doing it while you're on the ground. Once I found out there was a way to do it without the windup, I practiced. Now I have it down pat.
Are there any programs that make a tutorial out of a few levels for FPS games? I'd love to get my fiancee playing, but trying to use the mouse to look around is sometimes just too much.
Another game with a humbeling learning wall is Warhawk. Basicly the tutorial for the game is a text box that pops up for a breif moment when you pick up any weapon, get in any vehicle or play a new game mode. Problem is you can't realy read the protip's cause your too ocupied with the guys from the other team trying to give you a tow missle enema. God I love that game.
Real man use Bridget.
For target practice.
:winky:
I believe that is reserved for Johnny.
After reading the Kotaku article!
Ah man.
That writer,Mike Fahey, oh man. Give me a fucking break.
Old games you had to master the controls before learning to master the game? Sorry, that's just wrong. Most of the oldest games I can think of, arcade games and games before and including the NES, the controls were extremely simple. They often boiled down to "point where you want to move with the pad/stick, click this button to jump, this button to shoot." That was it. There was no difficulty in learning the controls. Most of the difficulty of many of the games came from memorizing the levels or patterns, or from mastery over keen timing and hand eye coordination, or from getting some tough part into muscle memory.
He talks about how hard it is to get into this new Bionic Commando.
Remember the first bionic commando? Or, ever play Ninja Five-0?
Both of these are extremely good games. Controlling these games took some getting used to, and become a ninja master flying through the levels efficiently with the swing mechanic really, actually, took some serious time getting used to and getting good at. You didn't pick up either of these games and instantly become good at them.
But that's not to say the controls were bad in either of these games. They were intuitive - you pressed a button to shoot out the grappler, and it would swing you in the appropriate arch. But the mechanic of swinging through the levels was a challenge that you mastered over the course of the game. And it was fun and rewarding in doing so.
Kind of like what the Capcom rep was saying about "skill based controls."
And it makes perfect sense.
To give a person complete freedom in a game like Bionic Commando is going to require that the controls be a little bit more sophisticated than what Mike Fahey is apparently expecting. If he wants something that he can just jump into and not have to 'learn' at all to play, they probably would have had to seriously limit the ways in which the grapple/swing mechanic works. It would have been simpler and the game would probably suffer for it.
What would they have done, make the game control like the recent Spiderman games? Wherein you press a button to shoot a web that attaches randomly to the nearest completely indiscernable thing off screen? That's not what Bionic Commando is about. And Bionic Commando doesn't have the luxury of being in a completely open city that just having the bionic arm randomly attach to something off screen would really work (rather it's sort of a war torn city that's falling apart). Assassin's Creed like the OP suggests is also a great example of how simplification might be less rewarding, and in fact, perhaps closer to hand-holding.
Man whatever. I think a lot of reviewers these days are coddled on three types of games with three very basic types of controls; third person shooters, first person shooters, and action games. Most of these genres games use essentially the same sets of controls in general within their respective genres, and most of these reviewers are so trained on them, that they know what they're doing as soon as they pick up the controller. But should something ever come their way that they have to learn something new, control wise, to make use of a new mechanic, they freak out like Fahey does. Thus games with very rewarding controls that make sense for a game, once you get used to it, a lot of people just can't come to grips with.
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