Choose my TV

DJ-99

Ok so I made a thread a little while ago asking about what kind of TV I should get for Guitar Hero and Halo 3. I decided on an LCD, but now that it's time to actually choose a particular model I'm having some problems answering fundamental TV-choosing questions.

I'm looking to spend up to $1,200 I guess. The issues I'm struggling with pertain to size and brand. I can get, for example, a 47" Magnavox for basically the same price as a 40" Sony. Or, I can get a 42" RCA for $300 cheaper than said Sony.

If I'm sitting 6-8 feet away from the screen, is 47 inches going to be too big? I don't want to have to turn my head to see from one side of the screen to the other. I also don't want it to absolutely dominate the room.

Would you guys recommend saving the $150-$300 or so in order to drop from a Sony to an RCA, Vizio, or Samsung?

Also, what's the deal with contrast ratios? I don't know anything about them.

Here are basically the TVs I plan on choosing from.

http://www.walmart.com/search/browse-ng.do?ic=26_0&ref=125875.331180+500748.500764+500920.4293837041&tab_value=26_All&catNavId=3996

Sorry this isn't very focused, but tell me what you think I should buy.

This is the Sony I mentioned, and it looks pretty good I think. Any experience with it? Should I be worried it specifically mentions how well it works with PS3 in the description but not XBox 360?

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9252004

Captain Vash

When I was T.V. shopping a little while back I settled on this LG:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889005013

I've been using it from across my bedroom and I find it's a great size, and since I bought it from bestbuy I picked up the 4 year warranty just in case, not that I'm worried, LG is a reputable brand.

At any rate, in the 40-42 inch size range, save yourself a couple bucks and stick to 720p, I doubt you'd be able to see the difference anyways.

As for contrast ratio, basically the higher the better, it's basically the rating of how many values between black and white can be displayed without any posterization at all.

PirateJon

That 42" visio isn't bad.

dr0neboy

I would recommend samsung. I have a LE40M87BD, It's a LCD with good response and good contrast, it's also full-hd and 40". I paid almost 2000$ for it but that was about 10 months ago so it should have gone down in price by now. I am very pleased with picture quality while playing games as well as watching movies.

MichaelLC

46 might be a little much for 8ft away. Will you be moving before you'll want a new TV? If not, then I'd go with a 40" or 42".

I like the Samsung, as I've been quite happy with mine. It is only 720p, though. I'd recomend taking a look at the differnece in a store before deciding.

dr0neboy

MichaelLC wrote: »

I'd recomend taking a look at the differnece in a store before deciding.

That's some very solid advice for you son.

Djeet

One problem with big tv's is that once you get accustomed to a large primary viewing screen it's hard to go back down in size. I've got a 65" rptv and I'm loth to change it until 60"+ flat panels come down to reasonable prices.

And I regularly sit 6-8' from the screen when watching movies or playing games, and I've 20-20 vision, so I don't think 47" is too big for 8' viewing distance. YMMV of course.

High contrast ratio is nice if you don't have great control of light in the viewing room (which is usually the case unless you have a dedicated theatre room). Lower contrast ratios mean you have less range between black and white, so everything looks a bit washed out compared to a set with higher contrast ratio. You can see the effect of contrast ratio if you place a cheap LCD next to a nice Plasma.

vonPoonBurGer

Generally speaking, I've heard good things about Samsung and Vizio in terms of their combination of competitive price and good performance. Sony tends to make good quality stuff as well, but my sense is that their quality is usually only marginally better for significantly more money. With any TV, though, make sure to check out any prospective units in person before buying if at all possible.

honkymcgoo

I own 2 vizio TVs ( a 37" in my room and the 47" in the living room) and they are both wonderful, plenty of inputs, great picture quality, solid build and easy on the wallet. In fact I post from the one in my room, and Ive got my pc outputting through HDMI at 720p, looks great. So, I can heartily recommend Vizios. Also, check around online and see what company is currently manufacturing the parts, to keep costs down one part will be manufactured at this plant, another at this one. Sometimes brands like Vizio get the exact same screens or lamps or what have you as Samsungs and LGs. The same factory makes the same quality part, it just gets put in a different casing. SOMETIMES. So if you really feel like checking into that, you can usually find it online.

http://www.avsforum.com/

That forum is a GREAT resource for any type of home theater questions. And usually if you post about a specific model you are thinking about getting, there's 20 or so people who have it and can give you reviews.

MushroomStick

Go to your local big box electronics store and just play with all the tvs and see which one looks good to you. Contrast ratios don't always mean a whole lot as there doesn't seem to be a standardized measurement. In my experience a Samsung or a Sony is going to have much nicer picture controls than any of your budget brands. Also, if you intend on hooking anything up through the vga port, make sure it will accept a signal at the native resolution of the screen. A friend of mine got a 42" Westinghouse about a year ago and the picture controls consisted of 5 presets (no fine controls at all) and the vga converted anything you sent it down 640 x 480 and the stretched it to fill the screen. He thought he got a good deal, I didn't agree. If you're trying to keep costs down, Vizio tends to just be one step behind the state of the art.

My votes would be Samsung for a name brand and Vizio for a budget brand.

OremLK

Olevia is better than Vizio for a budget brand, in my experience. I have a 37" and it's been fantastic in every way. Vizio isn't too bad, though.

Olevia uses LG panels in their TVs so their picture quality is really good--I like it better than some name brand 720p televisions I've seen.

Basically I'd do that, if I were you, and save $300-400 bucks. Plus, if you don't already have a system, that saves you some money for a nice home-theater-in-a-box. Onkyo makes great stuff pretty cheap.

Djeet

FWIW, Syntax/Olevia is pretty much dead:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/08/syntax-brillian-waves-the-white-flag-files-for-chapter-11-bankr/
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1032730422

Maybe you can score a good deal, but the warranty isn't going to be worth anything.

OremLK

That's too bad, I hadn't heard about that.

Well, my TV's still going strong :P

Djeet

I'm not trying to spread FUD. The defect rate on flat panels is actually extremely low.

In the unlikely event a panel has problems, some of the "lesser" name brands have strange warranty policies. Like requiring you to ship it back in the original shipping box and charging you a couple hundred to send you out a new box in case you've trashed yours. You don't run into that when getting warranty work on the more well known (expensive) brands.

Kyougu

Another vote for Vizio's. They're a great mid range brand. As long as you're not a videophile they're perfect for their price.
I have a 42, and it was a little over a grand. I can't complain about picture quality, and it has tons of outputs.

Post Blue

If you're buying the LCD primarily for gaming, don't waste your money on a 1080p set that none of your games are natively encoded to utilize. Scaling is this generation's secret ugly stick.

I hate Sony's Bravia LCDs; their image looks like a smeary conglomeration of nail polish and chapstick. If you have to get an LCD, go for Samsung.

Morden

I have to say, my choice came down to Samsung or Vizio. I could have bought a larger Vizio, or a smaller Samsung with better contrast ratio.

I settled on the Samsung and have been totally satisfied with it. If you look at a Samsung vs. other sets in the same palce, there is a clear difference in looks, vibrancy, and color. I lost 5 inches, but I wouldn't take the decision back for anything.

That being said, you'll be paying for that 12,000:1 contrast ratio, so if you're on a budget, and don't particularly think you'll notice much of a difference, go Vizio.

DJ-99

Thanks for the input, folks.

I guess my main remaining question, which has already been touched upon, is does it matter if I get 1080 vs 720? It seems like I can save a good chunk of money if I get a 720, but I've heard from some sources that 1080 is significantly better.

Aside from video games, I will primarily be watching stuff like ESPN and TNT in HD and then stuff like soccer games not in HD. Not a lot of DVDs. Is 1080 significantly better?

MichaelLC

O_oI think HD broadcast only go to 1080i max?

Games will certainly look better in 1080p than 720p, but with as close a viewing ditance as you (6-8ft), it's debatable if you'd notice. Personal example ftw, my 46" 1080p looks crappy standing < 3ft away, and lower quality at < 5ft.

In your case, I would say go with the best 720p you can find, and you'll be happy. Save the cash for allthose Blu-rays you'll want to buy, not

PS: What's with Morden stealing my avatar?

Post Blue

DJ-99 wrote: »

Thanks for the input, folks.

I guess my main remaining question, which has already been touched upon, is does it matter if I get 1080 vs 720? It seems like I can save a good chunk of money if I get a 720, but I've heard from some sources that 1080 is significantly better.

Aside from video games, I will primarily be watching stuff like ESPN and TNT in HD and then stuff like soccer games not in HD. Not a lot of DVDs. Is 1080 significantly better?

There is currently no such thing as 1080p content distributed over the air, satellite, cable, or any of that nonsense.

You won't be doing any of the current-gen systems a disservice by going with a 720p (768p) set. Never mind what the back of a game’s box says for supported output resolutions; supported doesn’t mean what you’d like it to mean. The reality is that virtually all games (with very few pointless exceptions) for all consoles are and will continue to be natively encoded at 720p or lower. As increasingly sophisticated graphics and software are developed for static technology, the trend is actually going away from higher resolutions, not toward them, and the resulting deficiencies are blanketed with scaling. That means that if you buy a 1080p panel and you play games, even though it still looks fantastic, your are viewing scaled content. Whether the scaling happens in the system hardware or on your TV, some people are finicky enough to be bothered by it. Blu-ray movies – and not even all of them! – are the only feasible means of getting truly native 1920 x 1080p x 24hz content at this time, so if you were serious about watching a lot of movies it might be worth it to spring for the more pricey set and secure a comfy gaming slot in the not-too-distant future (3 to 5 years) when consoles’ and television networks’ technologies catch up to what these TVs are capable of displaying.

Games will not look better in 1080p. They will look debatably worse in their awkwardly sampled and resized state.

Djeet

Yeah, you're not going to notice the difference with ESPN and TNT HD, those are all compressed to hell. I doubt those will improve until they build out fiber everywhere, and they're more likely to use additional headspace to convert SD channels to "HD" over improving existing "HD" channels by eliminating compression.

The first channels you might notice the difference would be the OTA broadcast HD channels, they actually do broadcast in 720p/1080i. They'll also be the first to broadcast in 1080p, whenever that happens.

One reason you might want 1080p is if you plan to use your tv as a monitor often. Then having a native 1920x1080 panel will definitely be better than a native 1280x720 panel.

If you plan to watch a lot of SD content, you might want to investigate how the tvs' upscalers perform. TV's do not necessarily upscale all inputs.

I don't know from the console games perspective.

grungebox

DJ-99 wrote: »

Thanks for the input, folks.

I guess my main remaining question, which has already been touched upon, is does it matter if I get 1080 vs 720? It seems like I can save a good chunk of money if I get a 720, but I've heard from some sources that 1080 is significantly better.

Aside from video games, I will primarily be watching stuff like ESPN and TNT in HD and then stuff like soccer games not in HD. Not a lot of DVDs. Is 1080 significantly better?

There's a limit to your visual acuity (what resolution you can see) given certain distance and size variables. Here's a great chart that might help.

Basically, find your distance and desired screen size. If you're in the gray shaded region then 1080p will show some improvement versus 720p; the closer to the red line you are, the less the benefit. Based on your specs, you probably will barely see a difference between 1080p and 720p if you get a 47" 1080p TV and sit 6' away, but at 8' you're pretty much at the border. For smaller than 47" your viewing distance is too large to observe a difference between 720p and 1080p. Go for 720p, and use the extra money on a kickass set of speakers or something.

EDIT: Actually, here's a much much better chart:http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

Post Blue

grungebox wrote: »

DJ-99 wrote: »

Thanks for the input, folks.

I guess my main remaining question, which has already been touched upon, is does it matter if I get 1080 vs 720? It seems like I can save a good chunk of money if I get a 720, but I've heard from some sources that 1080 is significantly better.

Aside from video games, I will primarily be watching stuff like ESPN and TNT in HD and then stuff like soccer games not in HD. Not a lot of DVDs. Is 1080 significantly better?

There's a limit to your visual acuity (what resolution you can see) given certain distance and size variables. Here's a great chart that might help.

Basically, find your distance and desired screen size. If you're in the gray shaded region then 1080p will show some improvement versus 720p; the closer to the red line you are, the less the benefit. Based on your specs, you probably will barely see a difference between 1080p and 720p if you get a 47" 1080p TV and sit 6' away, but at 8' you're pretty much at the border. For smaller than 47" your viewing distance is too large to observe a difference between 720p and 1080p. Go for 720p, and use the extra money on a kickass set of speakers or something.

EDIT: Actually, here's a much much better chart:http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

Yes, that's a useful chart, but you must apply it to the resolution of the source you are sending to the panel, not the fixed-pixel resolution of the panel itself. Optimal viewing distance for a 720p source sent to a 720p panel is identical to that of the same source sent to a 1080p panel of the same size. The only factors that essentially influence optimal viewing distance in regard to detail perception are display size and resolution of the input source, prior to scaling.

urahonky

Yeah no kidding. Samsung TVs are amazing. My 50" DLP has really held its ground for years, and it inspired me to buy a 27" for my bedroom.

MushroomStick

DJ-99 wrote: »

Thanks for the input, folks.

I guess my main remaining question, which has already been touched upon, is does it matter if I get 1080 vs 720? It seems like I can save a good chunk of money if I get a 720, but I've heard from some sources that 1080 is significantly better.

Aside from video games, I will primarily be watching stuff like ESPN and TNT in HD and then stuff like soccer games not in HD. Not a lot of DVDs. Is 1080 significantly better?

Unless you're going to get a TV in the 60" or larger range, there'll probably be little or no advantage to 1080p. And even then it doesn't sound like you're gonna have a whole lot in the way of a 1080p source.

OremLK

Games this gen don't utilize 1080p.
HD television/cable doesn't utilize 1080p.
Obviously standard def stuff like DVDs will not benefit from it.

The only reason to get a 1080p TV in my opinion is if you have or are planning to get a PS3/blu-ray player. And even then it's not really necessary especially at sub-50" screen sizes.

DJ-99

Ok so I think I'll go with this 42" Vizio

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8477431

I know people have said that I don't need the 1080, but it can't hurt, right? Unless scaling up video games won't look as good.

The reason I figure I might as well just go for this 1080 is because my Wal-Mart here doesn't really have any 720s that are bigger than 37", and the Vizio only costs $996. Looks really good in person, too.

OremLK

Well... is Wal-Mart the only option? Have you looked into any other brick & mortar places or thought about ordering online? (I know it may not be the best idea for expensive electronics, but meh).

DJ-99

OremLK wrote: »

Well... is Wal-Mart the only option? Have you looked into any other brick & mortar places or thought about ordering online? (I know it may not be the best idea for expensive electronics, but meh).

I've looked online a fair bit. The closest brick and mortar other than Wal-Mart is about an hour away, and I've got a tight schedule these days, so I'd rather not have to drive that far.

I'll check out a couple online places first, though. When I first looked at websites I was (apprently foolishly) limiting my search to 1080 sets.

OremLK

Well, I mean, I'm sure that 1080p set is fine for your purposes, I'm just wondering if it might be overkill and you could save two or three hundred bucks getting a 720.

MichaelLC

DJ-99 wrote: »

Ok so I think I'll go with this 42" Vizio

The reason I figure I might as well just go for this 1080 is because my Wal-Mart here doesn't really have any 720s that are bigger than 37", and the Vizio only costs $996. Looks really good in person, too.

If you're happy with the picture, than go for it.

I'm a brand-whore and so would go with the Samsung or Sony, but PAers seem to have had goods luck with Vizio. Stay away from Olevia, though.

Nissl

I also have a Vizio 42". Mostly rebranded LG parts, I believe. Got mine refurbished and it's been great through a year and a half of intense usage (3-4 hrs/day). However, it shipped with a cracked, unusable stand and it took me 6 weeks and 4 45-minute calls to get customer service to send me a new stand. So if you can, I recommend getting a policy where you deal with Walmart and not Vizio if you have to return it.

JohnnyCache

I know two people with large samsung LCDs and they are unreal. The picture on them is so crisp, the best way I can describe it is it makes everything look like it's on PBS. You see things in movies you've never noticed before - almost to the point it's a problem. My old horror movies look terrible on them because you can see the wires holding things up and the lines where makeup was applied and stuff. Samsung LCDs are scary.

DJ-99

I ended up getting a Samsung 40" 720p LCD. This one.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=9124791

I was set on the Vizio, but then I went into the store to check them out, and the Samsungs just looked way better than any other brand, except maybe Sony. The 40" Samsung was the same price as the 42" Vizio (just under $1000) so that's what I got.

Thanks for the input, everybody.

Ein

Out of curiosity

I am television-retarded, but I have also been shopping for a TV within the OP's price range or thereabouts, preferably something I can mount on a wall, though it's not explicitly required.

When I'm in stores looking at these walls of televisions, though...

Well, I thought 1080p was supposed to be a higher definition than 720, but to my naked eye standing about 6 feet from these screens, the 720s always look a lot nicer than the 1080s. I have been trying to figure this out, since I don't really understand what the numbers mean, but I've got a hunch it's because the signal they're feeding to their TV wall is meant for 720, and not 1080? Is this right?

I have one of the first-generation Xbox 360s, so I imagine 1080 isn't much help to me anyhow, but my cable plan does come with HD, so I don't know if that matters.

JohnnyCache

The world of HD television can get retarded faster then a stormboy with no helmet, jam.

More than likely, the video wall at the electronics store is not set up to demo the TVs very well - it's probably pumping out Kevin McDonald from one DVD player in the back hooked to a splitter.

Ask them to play a blu-ray or put the sets on an HD source . . . most places that aren't costco/walmart should do that for a serious shopper.

Pheezer

You can't rely on the TVs that are set up for you. You need to get your hands on the remote and tweak it a bit and have some control over the source feed. Even the lower priced units. They probably look far worse than they really are.