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How to stop an unrequited crush from ruining a friendship (UPDATED 08/26)
Nechriah
Chookity!Registered User regular
Chookity!Registered User regular
UPDATED August 26th
I put the update on the second page, after all the replies relating to my original question. I just felt that was an easier way to do it. Feel free to read through all of the original thread if you haven't already, as it may put the second part into greater context.
+ORIGINAL THREAD+
*DISCLAIMER*
Before I begin, I have built a wall of text here, for which I apologise, but I thought if I described my situation in greater detail, people might find it easier to give me helpful advice. I should also warn you, gentle readers, that this is somewhat teen-angsty, so best not bother reading this if you can't stand that sorta thing.
On with the show...
So, my problem here begins with a girl - let's call her Ilene to keep things straightforward. Ilene is one of my friend Jennifer's best mates, who I developed a thing for a couple of years back (early 2006). We'd often catch the same train on our way to university, and so we started talking and came to know each other better. I'd always seen Ilene as Jennifer's incredibly smart, bookish friend with short hair who I didn't know all that well; but now I was seeing her as a very beautiful woman who shared a lot of similar interests to me, who had a sharp and witty sense of humour underneath her awkward exterior, and who I could really relax and be myself around. Even when she found out about my mental health issues (dysthymia and OCD), she wasn't put out - indeed, she was really kind to me and I realised that this was the first girl I'd liked who treated me like a human being despite my crazy. That really meant a lot to me. It seemed we had a connection and I found myself thinking that Ilene could really be perfect girlfriend material. I eventually worked up the pluck to ask her to have dinner with me. Ilene told me that she wasn't interested in dating at the moment because she wanted to focus on her studies; and also because she had a four month trip to Italy coming up the next year (next year being 2007). She took great pains to assure me that she thought I was "sweet, funny†and that she "really loved talking with me", and that it was merely her current circumstances that stopped us from dating. Our strictly-friends relationship continued as normal for the next few months without getting uncomfortable or weird, as is so often the case in these situations. While I was still very attracted to Ilene and really wanted to pursue a romantic relationship, I was content to wait for the moment.
After Ilene came back from her holiday, things started to get interesting. The first time I saw her after her return was when we went out for drinks in the city to celebrate Jennifer's 21st. Ilene spent almost the whole night deep in conversation with me, and when she walked me to the train station to say goodbye, Ilene pressed herself right up against me in a hug that lasted a good minute - during which she stood up on her toes and whispered "It was really good to see you again" right in my ear. It seemed to me that if I could work up the nerve to make a move (again), Ilene and I could finally become a couple, like I'd been wanting to for so long. However, it was a bad time for move-making, because the next week was the beginning of the incredibly hectic time of the university year when we were all revising for exams and finishing term papers. I barely got to see Ilene during the next month, and when I did it was never a good time to broach the one subject I really wanted to talk about. I figured I could always make my move during the summer break, a perfect time for all sorts of romantic shenanigans. This was unfortunately when something truly awful happened - Ilene was diagnosed with Crohn's disease*. Wanting to be with Ilene took a backseat to being incredibly worried about her, but by the end of January she'd started treatment and was doing a lot better. I decided that I'd waited long enough, and since Ilene was getting sick of everybody treating her like a delicate flower, I thought she'd be ready for some fun. So, on Valentine's Day Ilene and I went on our first actual date. Having crap all experience in this arena, I stuck with the classics: we went and saw a quasi-romantic comedy about teen pregnancy, then had dinner at a fairly swish cafe opposite the cinema - at least, that was the plan. Like a mook, I forgot to make reservations for dinner and so just we ended up getting Subway and driving around listening to CDs after the movie. Still, Ilene seemed to enjoy herself, so our first date wasn't a complete and total failure; or so I thought at the time.
Now, after our Valentine's Day date, nothing much seemed to be happening - which confused me, since I'd more or less told Ilene exactly how I feel about her and she seemed to be giving signs that she felt the same. We'd call each other up and talk more than we did before, but every time I asked her if she wanted to go somewhere or do something - see a movie, have dinner or whatever else I might think of - she could never make it for some reason or other. At first I thought nothing of it. Ilene is very committed to her studies, more so than before now that she's doing her Honours year this year, and she works a lot of shifts at her job as well - and besides, she was still battling with a severe chronic illness. Altogether it didn't seem unreasonable for her to not have time for dating every so often. However, I started to think something could be amiss the fourth or fifth time Ilene had to work or finish an assignment when I wanted to make plans. When she flaked on my birthday party this month, which I deliberately told her about a month in advance, I was convinced that something was awry. So, last week I cornered our mutual friend Jennifer, and asked her if she could please tell me what was going on. After some coaxing and promises of ice cream, I learnt the following information from Jennifer:
Ilene has in fact been deliberately avoiding me for the past couple of months, as she's annoyed at me for liking her so much when she's not interested in me as anything more than a friend. However, Ilene's not actually told me this herself because she "doesn't want to hurt my feelings". Jennifer and their other friend Abby have actually been fighting with Ilene about this for a while, as they feel Ilene's being a bitch and could have handled this A LOT better. This line of talk put Jennifer in a divulgatory mood, so she went on to say that this is nothing to do with me, apart from my appalling taste in women. Instead, she assures me that this is all Ilene's fault for having ridiculously high standards which no man could ever live up to, as consequence of having watched too many romance movies and reading too many of Jane Austen's books. Nonetheless, Ilene apparently did decide to give me a try on Valentine's Day despite her misgivings about me as boyfriend material, but I was found extremely wanting. Jennifer has told me that she thinks Ilene's being unfair in her expectations of me, and should just accept me how I am. She also thinks that I could do better for myself, and that I need someone more fun-loving and crazy than Ilene who won't make me jump through hoops. Now, Jennifer's known both Ilene and I for most of our lives, and I usually trust her judgement but I'm just not sure about this one. It sounds to me like Ilene was just trying to do the right thing, but she's just as clumsy and inexperienced at this sort of thing as I am, if not more so. I think her having burnt me wasn't Ilene being deliberately malicious; just Ilene being Ilene - ridiculously book smart to the point where she has real trouble with social interaction.
So, the sum of my problem is: I still like Ilene and still want to be in a relationship with her. Since it seem like that's not going to happen anytime soon, I should try and move on. This is something I've never been good at, but I know I need to respect Ilene's wishes about our relationship. Ilene's friendship is very important to me, I love talking with her and spending time with her, and I truly do care about her, so I want this to be right again. At the same time, I know I really need to think carefully about how I handle this, because whatever action I do or don't take could fix things or just make them worse - I don't know which. I guess I'm really looking for advice on how to move on from a girl who I think is everything I've ever wanted, and what to tell her when I finally talk to her about this. Should I apologise for unsettling her? Try and persuade her to give "us" a second try? Am I crazy for still wanting her, or should I actually be angry at her for misleading me? Just how do I handle this situation so that all involved are happy with the resolution? I suppose this is where the good people of the internet come in.
Thanks in advance for advice and helpful suggestions.
~Nechriah
I put the update on the second page, after all the replies relating to my original question. I just felt that was an easier way to do it. Feel free to read through all of the original thread if you haven't already, as it may put the second part into greater context.
+ORIGINAL THREAD+
*DISCLAIMER*
Before I begin, I have built a wall of text here, for which I apologise, but I thought if I described my situation in greater detail, people might find it easier to give me helpful advice. I should also warn you, gentle readers, that this is somewhat teen-angsty, so best not bother reading this if you can't stand that sorta thing.
On with the show...
So, my problem here begins with a girl - let's call her Ilene to keep things straightforward. Ilene is one of my friend Jennifer's best mates, who I developed a thing for a couple of years back (early 2006). We'd often catch the same train on our way to university, and so we started talking and came to know each other better. I'd always seen Ilene as Jennifer's incredibly smart, bookish friend with short hair who I didn't know all that well; but now I was seeing her as a very beautiful woman who shared a lot of similar interests to me, who had a sharp and witty sense of humour underneath her awkward exterior, and who I could really relax and be myself around. Even when she found out about my mental health issues (dysthymia and OCD), she wasn't put out - indeed, she was really kind to me and I realised that this was the first girl I'd liked who treated me like a human being despite my crazy. That really meant a lot to me. It seemed we had a connection and I found myself thinking that Ilene could really be perfect girlfriend material. I eventually worked up the pluck to ask her to have dinner with me. Ilene told me that she wasn't interested in dating at the moment because she wanted to focus on her studies; and also because she had a four month trip to Italy coming up the next year (next year being 2007). She took great pains to assure me that she thought I was "sweet, funny†and that she "really loved talking with me", and that it was merely her current circumstances that stopped us from dating. Our strictly-friends relationship continued as normal for the next few months without getting uncomfortable or weird, as is so often the case in these situations. While I was still very attracted to Ilene and really wanted to pursue a romantic relationship, I was content to wait for the moment.
After Ilene came back from her holiday, things started to get interesting. The first time I saw her after her return was when we went out for drinks in the city to celebrate Jennifer's 21st. Ilene spent almost the whole night deep in conversation with me, and when she walked me to the train station to say goodbye, Ilene pressed herself right up against me in a hug that lasted a good minute - during which she stood up on her toes and whispered "It was really good to see you again" right in my ear. It seemed to me that if I could work up the nerve to make a move (again), Ilene and I could finally become a couple, like I'd been wanting to for so long. However, it was a bad time for move-making, because the next week was the beginning of the incredibly hectic time of the university year when we were all revising for exams and finishing term papers. I barely got to see Ilene during the next month, and when I did it was never a good time to broach the one subject I really wanted to talk about. I figured I could always make my move during the summer break, a perfect time for all sorts of romantic shenanigans. This was unfortunately when something truly awful happened - Ilene was diagnosed with Crohn's disease*. Wanting to be with Ilene took a backseat to being incredibly worried about her, but by the end of January she'd started treatment and was doing a lot better. I decided that I'd waited long enough, and since Ilene was getting sick of everybody treating her like a delicate flower, I thought she'd be ready for some fun. So, on Valentine's Day Ilene and I went on our first actual date. Having crap all experience in this arena, I stuck with the classics: we went and saw a quasi-romantic comedy about teen pregnancy, then had dinner at a fairly swish cafe opposite the cinema - at least, that was the plan. Like a mook, I forgot to make reservations for dinner and so just we ended up getting Subway and driving around listening to CDs after the movie. Still, Ilene seemed to enjoy herself, so our first date wasn't a complete and total failure; or so I thought at the time.
Now, after our Valentine's Day date, nothing much seemed to be happening - which confused me, since I'd more or less told Ilene exactly how I feel about her and she seemed to be giving signs that she felt the same. We'd call each other up and talk more than we did before, but every time I asked her if she wanted to go somewhere or do something - see a movie, have dinner or whatever else I might think of - she could never make it for some reason or other. At first I thought nothing of it. Ilene is very committed to her studies, more so than before now that she's doing her Honours year this year, and she works a lot of shifts at her job as well - and besides, she was still battling with a severe chronic illness. Altogether it didn't seem unreasonable for her to not have time for dating every so often. However, I started to think something could be amiss the fourth or fifth time Ilene had to work or finish an assignment when I wanted to make plans. When she flaked on my birthday party this month, which I deliberately told her about a month in advance, I was convinced that something was awry. So, last week I cornered our mutual friend Jennifer, and asked her if she could please tell me what was going on. After some coaxing and promises of ice cream, I learnt the following information from Jennifer:
Ilene has in fact been deliberately avoiding me for the past couple of months, as she's annoyed at me for liking her so much when she's not interested in me as anything more than a friend. However, Ilene's not actually told me this herself because she "doesn't want to hurt my feelings". Jennifer and their other friend Abby have actually been fighting with Ilene about this for a while, as they feel Ilene's being a bitch and could have handled this A LOT better. This line of talk put Jennifer in a divulgatory mood, so she went on to say that this is nothing to do with me, apart from my appalling taste in women. Instead, she assures me that this is all Ilene's fault for having ridiculously high standards which no man could ever live up to, as consequence of having watched too many romance movies and reading too many of Jane Austen's books. Nonetheless, Ilene apparently did decide to give me a try on Valentine's Day despite her misgivings about me as boyfriend material, but I was found extremely wanting. Jennifer has told me that she thinks Ilene's being unfair in her expectations of me, and should just accept me how I am. She also thinks that I could do better for myself, and that I need someone more fun-loving and crazy than Ilene who won't make me jump through hoops. Now, Jennifer's known both Ilene and I for most of our lives, and I usually trust her judgement but I'm just not sure about this one. It sounds to me like Ilene was just trying to do the right thing, but she's just as clumsy and inexperienced at this sort of thing as I am, if not more so. I think her having burnt me wasn't Ilene being deliberately malicious; just Ilene being Ilene - ridiculously book smart to the point where she has real trouble with social interaction.
So, the sum of my problem is: I still like Ilene and still want to be in a relationship with her. Since it seem like that's not going to happen anytime soon, I should try and move on. This is something I've never been good at, but I know I need to respect Ilene's wishes about our relationship. Ilene's friendship is very important to me, I love talking with her and spending time with her, and I truly do care about her, so I want this to be right again. At the same time, I know I really need to think carefully about how I handle this, because whatever action I do or don't take could fix things or just make them worse - I don't know which. I guess I'm really looking for advice on how to move on from a girl who I think is everything I've ever wanted, and what to tell her when I finally talk to her about this. Should I apologise for unsettling her? Try and persuade her to give "us" a second try? Am I crazy for still wanting her, or should I actually be angry at her for misleading me? Just how do I handle this situation so that all involved are happy with the resolution? I suppose this is where the good people of the internet come in.
Thanks in advance for advice and helpful suggestions.
~Nechriah
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My advice, is to just drop the whole notion of being with her, permanently. Its never going to work out, your friend gave you the inside scoop and Ilene just isnt into you. You cant 'persuade' her to change her mind. What you should do is simply quit chasing her altogether. Fuck, i wouldnt even bother making an effort to continue to talk to her, given that she doesnt feel the need to keep you clued in on what was going on, but i can be fairly unforgiving of that sort of thing. But i certainly wouldnt go to any unreasonable lengths to 'make things right' or cultivate a good, close friendship. The easiest and fastest way to get over a girl is the same advice posted in every girl thread : Cut off contact, do other things.
edit: Oh, and when a girl says something like "Its just not a good time for a relationship" or similar, it actually means "I'm not interested." Most of the time they're just trying to spare your feelings, without realising it often makes things worse because you end up thinking "Awesome! All i need to do is bide my time..."
This is true. There are too many women out there to get stuck on one who's not giving you the time of day; Stay friends, but move on for now (If you're able to do that). Maybe much later down the road, she'll wake up, but that doesn't seem anywhere near.
To clarify why I'm so blunt about this, I've been in a similar situation and made the same mistakes.
You don't need to apologize for unsettling her because you didn't do anything wrong. There was a breakdown in communication somewhere and either she didn't send the signals strong enough or you didn't read them well enough. Whatever the cause, it's in the past and you know now. Don't try and persuade for a second try. It's not like you can just sit a girl down for a powerpoint presentation and show her a ven diagram of coincident interests and she'll realize how illogical she was and fall in love with you. You aren't crazy for still wanting her, that's a totally normal human emotion. But you need to realize you probably won't have a relationship with her.
You need to look inside yourself if you want to have her in your life as a friend. It's going to be deep and painful. Are you still willing to be her friend knowing there is this unrequited love between you two? Are you sure that you want to be her friend just for the sake of being her friend? Would you still want her to be a friend in your life if you got a perfect new girlfriend tomorrow? Would you still be cool and remain her friend if she were to go and have a boyfriend tomorrow?
Only you can answer if you still should have her in your life.
1: Don't apologise, as the others on here have said, you didn't do anything wrong
2: Don't be the clingy best friend who needs more, if you do it'll get to a point where she'll want to crush you with a large object
Dont go apologizing to her, and dont try to hang out with her. If you see her with other friends - cool. Otherwise dont try and meet up with her, or call/txt/email. Just avoid it, sounds like you're too hung up on her.
This stuff happens, and you may think you wont find someone that can 'take her place' but youre wrong. There are many people out there, and youre bound to find someone who you find just as attractive, but for different reasons.
forget her and go FTOW (f*** ten other women). You will find out, that theres plenty fish in the sea that aren't as smelly as her when it comes to you.
If you do feel a desperate need to talk to her about this, just say that it's become obvious that you two are not working out, and that you'd like to stay friendly but you're going to start dating other women. From what you've said, it sounds like it would be the least painful "breakup" ever.
Don't waste your time being angry with her for being too scared to tell you her true feelings. Though it made your life more difficult, it's not like it was malicious. Just take the experience and apply it to your next relationship.
You can say fuck here, see, fuck fuckity fuck fuck.
Anyway, OP, you need to stop analyzing this girl and this situation. There is no solution, you simply have to stop thinking about her and move on. Crushes are just a trick your mind tries to play on you because your primal brain wants to make babies with them. There is nothing "special" about this girl, I promise you.
1. We've all been there.
2. You just gotta suck it up.
will be the answer.
You're probably right that she's just being awkward and doesn't mean anything by it, but it really doesn't matter anymore.
The other situation, a friend had feelings for me, and I didn't feel them back. Same deal - we took some time away from each other, and now we chat and hang out when we're in the same city, and it's much better than it was before - no weird awkwardness.
I'd suggest taking a step back to allow yourself to sort through this and move on. If the friendship is strong enough, it'll continue when you're both ready.
I host a podcast about movies.
Also, your friends are wrong when they say she should just "accept you how you are" and date you. WTF? She's not OBLIGATED to date anyone, no matter how nice they are.
Stop obsessing over this girl and date other women.
Nail(Hit) + Head = Profit
Stop hoping. Cut off contact and move on. Yeah, it's easier said than done, but you still need to do it.
You'll be happier, she'll be happier. Everyone wins.
Still, I'm finding this difficult. I went through a similar experience with first girl I fell for - and now five years on she's engaged and I can't stand being in the same room as her. I was convinced that things were different with Ilene - she's much more mature, level-headed and nicer than Pam (the other girl), as well as not being a manipulative tease like Pam. I thought it would really work out this time, or if it didn't that I could at least count on Ilene to just be straightforward with what she wanted. I was convinced that she was trying to signal her interest to me, but I read it wrong and now she's not interested at all. I never even considered that her being busy was a passive-aggressive brush off; since coming from Ilene most of her excuses for skipping plans were actually pretty believable...that or I'm a big gullible sap :P
I think in addition to moving on, I need to work at improving some things about myself. How I approach relationships for one, since I seem to be doing something very wrong. Secondly, Jennifer says that I didn't meet Ilene's idea of an ideal boyfriend, so I should probably try and fix some of the areas I'm lacking in. I also definitely need to work on my communication, since I seem to completely misread basic signals that other people has no trouble understanding. All of these things seem to be causing me problems when it comes to relationships, so I think I need to fix them before I poison another perfectly good friendship.
Thoughts, advice and other suggestions are still very welcome; and thanks again to everyone who's posted so far, I really appreciate the help guys.
~Nechriah
If you are worried about ruining friendships, you're probably waiting too long to make your move. As soon as you find that you think you'd like to date a girl, ask her out sooner rather than later. Its a lot easier to recover from a 'no' at that point and build a normal friendship. If you wait months, build the friendship, THEN ask her out, things can get awkward real fast. This is often because the best way to get over a broken relationship is to cut off contact... which isnt very conducive to keeping a friendship
And stop building these girls up in your head. Mentally whip yourself when you catch this happening. It sounds like you'd built Ilene up to be this perfect girl that totally gets you, and you're such a perfect fit you're absolutely bound to be together forever... Whack! Stop that! She's just a person you think is cute and fun to be with. No more and no less. You want to work on stopping yourself from becoming so emotionally invested in a relationship that hasnt even started yet.
Keep your chin up, business tends to work out for the better in the end, so long as you keep working at it. This one's not for you, doesn't mean the next one isn't.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. "
-Aldous Huxley
Also, just a random insight: do you have any interest in your friend Jennifer? Because usually (and I stress usually) when a girl says something like, "You deserve better than her!" there's at least some sort of interest there. At least that's been my experience. Either way, Jennifer is a great friend for sticking up for you and you should thank her for it.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that read that and thought the same thing. The only thing I would say though is not to seem like you are doing some sort of rebound from Ilene. Even if it was just one date, shifting from having feelings for her to Jennifer would probably make things awkward for all parties. Still, she seems like a very good friend for sticking up for you.
If you're resorting to only asking female friends out, You're Doing It Wrong.
Here's what I think: it should not be difficult to find friends and potential relationship girls that don't treat you like shit. It should not be surprising to you when a girl treats you normally, after finding out you have OCD and depression. You should expect that of everybody, and just don't talk to anyone thinks those issues define you. No, not every girl will suit you, but this shouldn't rule out 99% of the female population either. Most people understand that we each have flaws and if you are being appropriately treated for any conditions, thats all you can do.
I think you don't think highly enough of yourself and are assuming you'll "never find someone that was cool with my OCD ever again". Rubbish, this girl didn't even treat you that nice. The older you get, the more people you will find that have finally matured and understand that we're all imperfect. Until then, just be confident and don't give the time of day to anyone that doesn't treat you 'nice and human', never even mind about as g/f material, just on a day to day basis. Geez, everyone should expect humanity from their fellows.
As for Ilene, well, I think you should just give yourself a break from her. Personally I'd just stop phoning, doesn't sound like she's going to be making a huge effort or force you to even 'discuss the issue'. Maybe that's too passive aggressive for some people here on this board but I don't think going to Ilene and saying "Hey that wasn't very nice, I'm not going to call you now because I need to give myself time to move on" achieves damn near anything. She'll still avoid you and you're still working through things on your own, plus she still doesn't like you and isn't going to change. Whats the difference? Just save yourself the hassle. If you can cut off contact and move on, you can always hang out in the future. You'll KNOW when you're ready to see her again without wanting more. If you're not sure, you are NOT ready.
Self-improvement? Sure. It's an ongoing process. Do some thinking and reading and talking to friends or your therapist and work on what you can.
....But. You aren't going to be Ilene's boyfriend. Don't try to mold yourself into her (apparently crazy and impossible, according to your other friends) fantasy. This may surprise you, but different girls like different things in guys. ;-) The next girl you get into will like and dislike different things about you.
Work on things that bug you about yourself, strengthen the things that you like, and don't worry about Ilene's or Future Girl X's preferences.
I think he's talking about improving himself to meet women, not just Ilene. Judging from what I've read, he hasn't been successful in creating any sort of romantic relationship with a woman, and Ilene was, well, the last straw so to speak. I don't think he is going to try to win over Ilene or anything, but is just trying to find a way to attract women to him romantically, be it something physical or mental.
God damn this is the most rational response I have ever seen regarding this situation, bar none.
Perfect answer, listen to this man
Asking Jennifer out had never even crossed my mind - it'd be weird. I've known her since I was six and she's said that I'm the little brother she wishes she had (she does have a little brother, but he's an unbelievable jerk). Likewise, I've always seen her as the cool big sister I wish I had who always looks out for me and gives me good advice. If either of us were to try and shift the dynamic of our relationship to anything else, things would just get creepy...I'm talking incest levels of creepy here. While she's a great friend, I can't see us working together.
Yeah, I was talking more about improving myself in general. Believe me, I know that trying to change myself so that I fit Ilene's fantasy to a 'T' is a stupid move and not likely to do me any favours. Most of the things she disliked about me as boyfriend material are, I think, general things that most girls would also find unappealing: my less than impressive physique (I'm tall and scrawny like a praying mantis), my lack of self-confidence, and my inability to provide financial security (i.e. I am poor) are a few that spring to mind. These are things about myself that I too feel could do with a significant overhaul; whether because I'm dissatisfied about those aspects, or because I feel they're detrimental to my success with romantic relationships. I guess the two are kind of linked - I mean, if I fix the things I hate about me then I'll feel more confident, and confidence is sexy, right? For one thing, I really need to get in shape - something I've already started working on, helped by the excellent fitness thread in this same forum.
This is another thing I need to work on. I'm incredibly introverted, especially in social setting that make me uncomfortable...which tends to be MOST social settings, particularly typical parties. I'm incapable of relaxing around new people unless I've had a few drinks first...but I'm really not supposed to drink while I'm on my antidepressant medication. I hardly ever know what to say to people I've just met, so unless I have a friend doing the introductions or the other person starts a conversation with me, I generally just hide in the corner with the people I already know, which is not a good way to meet new people. I have even more trouble knowing how to approach an attractive woman I've never met before...I mean, won't she know that I'm talking to her because I think she's cute? Like I said, I suck at this so it's something else I need to practice.
Jennifer, and indeed most of my female friends, would have me believe I'm this sweet, funny, intelligent and clumsily romantic guy who just keeps falling for the wrong sort of woman; but I'm having a hard time seeing it. Most of the "funny" things that I say are either inside jokes which are lost on people who weren't there, or the long, rambling anecdotes I tell when I'm nervous. Somehow I don't think that stories about how I joined and broke up a Christian death metal band on the same day, or how my friend Jay got so drunk he had a fist-fight with a tree and lost make good ice breakers. Likewise, my "sweet" or "romantic" gestures tend to be viewed as me either coming on too strong, being creepy, or just not having a pair by the girls they're directed at. And I completely fail to see why people think I'm so smart - I'm only good at English, history, philosophy and similarly abstract (read: useless) subjects. My GPA is a minimum pass for fuck's sake - how does anyone get "smart" out of that?! Then of course there are my hobbies: I'm a movie nerd. I like reading fantasy novels and webcomics. I play pen and paper RPGs and tabletop wargames (hell, I never even told Ilene about that for fear of how she'd react - even if she did say she likes geeks). I think this is why I've only ever attempted to start a deeper relationship with female friends - they're at least inured to my crazy, and share some of my less mainstream interests.
So, now that I've come to the realisation that I need to move on and try not to think about Ilene, I actually need to start doing that. I also need to make a start on this self improvement, as that will probably help with the aforementioned moving on. Suggestions and advice for either are still very welcome; and thanks yet again to everyone who's offered an opinion - you guys rock! Especially Cryogen, I can't believe I didn't spot that problem before.
~Nechriah
(The flipside of the coin is that you have to know when to shut the hell up about your interests so the other person can talk. Some of my gamer friends have trouble with that part.)
Regarding "romantic gestures", I would avoid them unless they're for someone you're actually in a relationship with.
I don’t want to live in a world where drunken man on tree violence isn’t a great conversation starter.
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She probably does have some unrealistic expectations, because you sound pretty normal. The only way she's getting this is as a trophy wife, and she's probably not that hot.
Funny is different to different people, and it's likely that you not thinking that your funny is what, indeed, makes you funny. Good on you, even if you don't see it.
Those may not be awesome conversation starters, but they do make you unique and if I'm follow that business right, very interesting. Interesting is always good.
Like humour, smart is quite subjective also. Just because you're not making good marks doesn't mean you're not bright. I could cite some famous smart people that failed at things, but it's a bit more cliche than I mean.
As LadyM said, you have to be who you are. But don't bore everyone with it. That's not to say you shouldn't talk, just be aware of the moment when someone's eyes glaze over. There's no one on earth that's worth hiding yourself to impress them. Despite what you may have convinced yourself.
Movie freaks are never bad. And everyone knows at least one I think. They're a valuable resource. Our mate's name is Casey. We call him anytime we can't decide what to see, or anytime we don't have a movie. Plus his passion for movies doesn't dictate who he is, it's just PART OF IT.
It's the same with games and that sort of "nerdiness." I don't know if you realize the people you're talking to. We're on a web-comic's forum. I'd be willing to say that 90% of us game, some more than others, but it's there none-the-less. I'd even be willing to say that no small number of us know of several girls that are into that sort of thing. So you're not alone and it's not a hopeless fight. There are people that like you for who you are.
I think also maybe you're approaching this whole relationship the wrong way. "Trying" for deeper relationships usually will lead to pushing too hard for one of the parties. It stresses anything that might have happened. So relax, let things happen. To use a horrible cliche, "crawl before you walk". When you hit it off with someone, let it happen, don't think about it TOO much. That's when the negativity or the thoughts to push will happen. It'll probably work out, it usually does. Effort is necessary in all relationships but not so much at the beginning, at least in my experience.
So that's what I've got for you. Take it for what you will.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. "
-Aldous Huxley
Seriously.
The key is not to "self-improve" so that you score high on some objective "Potential Mate Rate-o-Meter (TM)" The key is to be comfortable with who you are yourself, in your own skin, on your own terms. (So long as you aren't a dick, which it sounds like you aren't.)
If your future self time traveled back 50 years and said, "You know what, it's not in the cards for you, Younger Self. You aren't going to find your Soul Mate. Sucks big time, but there you go." what would you do? Would you throw in the towel? Or would you set about doing the things that you and your friends like and find worthwhile. It is deeply unfortunate, but true, that if you dislike yourself or big aspects of yourself, you fundamentally will find fault with anyone who likes you.
Your intense desire to apologize here is heart-breakingly familiar. As counterintuitive as it seems, it is okay if someone, even a bunch of someones, out there doesn't want to hang out with you, even if it's for what you perceive as mistaken 'reasons.' Wanting everyone to like you, and especially feeling the need to correct people who may not, is a trap where the person you are really trying to convince is yourself.
Lots of great advice in this thread. Figure out what you like about yourself and your friends and what you like to do on your terms, try to relax (not easy to do), and then go out in the world without an agenda to interact with new people and have a good time. Sooner or later someone, or even a bunch of someones, may dig your brand of funny stories. But if they don't, you'll still be having a blast.
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
At this point, I'm always unsure if I'm beating a dead horse, but just in case you have no clue what to say, these work fine for a college party:
Hi.
What are you drinking?
Who's house is this? I just saw an open door and walked in.
What's your major?
What do you want to do after you graduate?
Did you see that guy in the hallway puking on himself? Yeah, gross.
Hey, I'm empty here, going for a refill.
Done. Congrats, you just had a conversation with a lady. Repeat once for every chick at the party.
OH NO, hot chick knows that you think she's hot! What's the problem here? Your self confidence must be insanely low if you think you're somehow not allowed to talk to women that you're attracted to. That would make it kind of hard to meet women you're attracted to, no?