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larry king (gay kid) shooting
Sam
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Registered User regular
I can't find another thread on this here, but the search function does kinda suck balls. uh, metaphorically. 
http://www.newsweek.com/id/147790
anyway, I was wondering what the consensus was on the psycho shooter kid. On the one hand it is technically a hate crime. On the other hand, something technically definable as a hate crime could also be a provoked response.
I mean the kid was 14 (which from my memory isn't much fun, you're not a kid but everyone treats you like you're stupid because, well, you are) and witnessed gun violence in his home between his parents. His dad stole his ritalin to trip on. Add to this the fact that the gay kid had singled him out, and although it wasn't intended as such, ultimately socially assassinated him. It's fucking middle school. I actually find it pretty sick that people are basically calling for a lynching, as though he perpetrated the kind of hate crime where the victim did not provoke the aggressor at all.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/147790
anyway, I was wondering what the consensus was on the psycho shooter kid. On the one hand it is technically a hate crime. On the other hand, something technically definable as a hate crime could also be a provoked response.
I mean the kid was 14 (which from my memory isn't much fun, you're not a kid but everyone treats you like you're stupid because, well, you are) and witnessed gun violence in his home between his parents. His dad stole his ritalin to trip on. Add to this the fact that the gay kid had singled him out, and although it wasn't intended as such, ultimately socially assassinated him. It's fucking middle school. I actually find it pretty sick that people are basically calling for a lynching, as though he perpetrated the kind of hate crime where the victim did not provoke the aggressor at all.
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No joke. I'll go edit my op
I didn't go in and shoot anyone.
You also didn't see your dad shot your mom in the arm to resolve a family dispute when you were a child, or grow up around substance abusers either.
Some people are disturbed. There isn't a logical justification for any murder anywhere. But this guy was being constantly courted by a cross dressing kid who spread rumors about them being together. And when I was 14 and people talked about being together, they got pretty specific.
That's a pretty rare form of emotional bullying, and I could see how someone from a very troubled background could react violently. Murder may be beyond the line, but this is not the same thing as a hate crime.
I don't know for sure, but I think that kids resorting to attempted murder or murder as retaliation for being bullied don't get tried as adults. But no one wants to call it what it was- and again I doubt the gay kid or anyone intended it as such, they just acted without thinking and it became what it was.
This seems a little odd if my above assessment is correct.
Surely kid A goes to jail for murder and people get the hell over their own and social homophobia.
Am I missing something here?
the boy shot him because the victim very publicly courted him, always followed him around and talked about them having a relationship. This culminated in him choosing the shooter for the school valentine day ritual, apparently giving him the card in front of a bunch of people including the shooter's friends, who proceeded to start with the olol fagz.
Okay, look. "Hey, the shooter was from a seriously fucked-up household with an abusive father and guns all over the place" is absolutely a mitigating factor. Nobody will argue that.
"Hey, the murder victim was spreading some middle school gossip" is not, and putting the two in the same paragraph makes you look like you're, again, blaming the victim.
In other words, "gay panic" bullshit. You should be ashamed.
the dispute is over whether he should be tried as a juvenile or adult. At age 14 (which he turned 3 weeks ago) perpetrators of serious crimes can be tried as adults. The "fact" that this was a hate crime lends credence to the prosecutions case.
Either way he's going to jail. But obviously one of them could basically write off his entire life now.
But it seems like gay organizations are basically calling for blood.
Gee, I wonder why? The kid's trying to use a "gay panic" defense.
Which thankfully I never had to deal with, because fuck uniforms.
Rough backgrounds do allow for some mitigating circumstances, but if the place where this crime occurred thinks that at 14 one should be tried as an adult, I would have thought that for such a horrific pre-meditated crime it would apply here.
The kid's home background is bad, but not so bad as to cover over the fact that he murdered someone for either being gay or perpetuating the idea within school that the two might be having some form of relationship. It sucks, but that is, unfortuantly, part of growing up - having to deal with all those crappy rumours and lies that get told about you.
Why? Because I want to see a 14 year old tried as a 14 year old with relevant psychological profiling? He's going to be found guilty of premeditated murder, no matter what. But in a juvenile court, and then in a juvenile rehabilitation facility. I don't see why it should be more than that because the victim was gay. It's already established that he didn't just see the kid being gay and minding his own business and decide to pwn a fag.
But really... no one knows they're fucking gay in middle school. I hardly knew what a vagina was until 8th grade. If you're claiming to be gay and wearing stilettos to school you're just a confused attention whore.
Thats not really true, at all.
For the fem types, who would be more likely to be a 7 on the kinsey scale, I'm sure it becomes apparent very early on.
yeah, he was clearly just asking to get shot, dressing like that.
I dont know man when I was 14 I was pretty horny and downloading Jana Cova wmvs over 56k. I think people know what kind of sex they want, or at least have a general idea at that age.
From Sentry's post:
Do you get the point? If it was any other victim, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The kid himself is the one making it "more than that" by relying on the bullshit "gay panic" defense (something that you have pointed out several times).
I dont think thats what Umaro was getting that, even though he said it with such tact and class....
I am having trouble believeing that a 10 year old has such a firm grasp of his own sexuality, but I have never really pursued the subjkect so I am sure someone will prove me wrong.
I'm not saying he deserved to be shot, I'm saying it's a little silly. Are gays really that feminine just because they're gays or do they act like that because that's how homosexuals have always been expected to act by society and even by many other homosexuals.
Blaaahblaaah.
I dont give a shit about any of the reasons, he's 14.
I'm sure there are other gays at that same middle school who do not feel the need to rub it in people's face the way King did. Just as there are people who are fascinated by and idenity with dark, misanthropic, ominous themes in art but don't become goths.
That doesn't make it a mitigating factor in a murder.
You do understand the concept of mens rea, right? Because if we followed your argument, that would mean that insanity would not be a legitimate defense.
Different situations bring about different feelings. News at 11.
When I was 13 my family let some friends of theirs live with us for a couple of months while they were in the process of moving. That family's daughter (who was 14) was rather interested in me, so there was some exploring that rapidly enlightened me as to what a vagina was while I was in middle school :P Besides, haven't most nosy boys found some of their dad's porn somewhere around the house?
While I don't think most kids would be mature enough to know they're gay, I think some people are underestimating how early kids can develop an interest in sex and/or porn.
Fine, try him as a juvenile. But don't let him use a "gay panic" defense.
But he picked the "he provoked me into shooting him by being so gay" defense, so now he's going to get the book thrown at him.
The only remarkable thing here is that there are people actually defending that second defense there.