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France accused in Rwanda genocide
Basar
IstanbulRegistered User regular
IstanbulRegistered User regular
Well, I wouldn't wanna be in Sarkozy shoes right now but the fact that he is married to Carla Bruni makes it a little more tempting.
I worked in an international organization where I had the chance to visit Rwanda and even though I am aware of the fact they could be biased, 9 out of 10 Rwandans blamed France for stirring up the heat behind the curtains and firing up the aggresiveness. So what do you think?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7542418.stm
I worked in an international organization where I had the chance to visit Rwanda and even though I am aware of the fact they could be biased, 9 out of 10 Rwandans blamed France for stirring up the heat behind the curtains and firing up the aggresiveness. So what do you think?
Rwanda has accused France of playing an active role in the genocide of 1994, in which about 800,000 people were killed.
An independent Rwandan commission said France was aware of preparations for the genocide and helped train the ethnic Hutu militia perpetrators.
The report also accused French troops of direct involvement in the killings.
It named 33 senior French military and political figures that it said should be prosecuted. France has previously denied any such responsibility.
Among those named in the report were former French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin and late President Francois Mitterrand.
The French foreign ministry told the BBC it would only respond to the fresh allegations after reading the report, which was released on Tuesday afternoon.
Earlier this year France's Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner denied French responsibility in connection with the genocide, but said political errors had been made.
Some 800,000 minority Tutsis and moderate Hutus were slaughtered by Hutu militias in just 100 days in 1994.
Testimonies
The BBC's Geoffrey Mutagoma in the Rwandan capital, Kigali, says the commission spent nearly two years investigating France's alleged role in the genocide.
It heard testimonies from genocide survivors, researchers, writers and reporters.
The 500-page document was presented to Rwanda's government last November, but was not made public until now.
Rwanda has repeatedly accused France of arming and training the Hutu militias that perpetrated the genocide, and of dragging its feet in co-operating with the investigations that followed.
France has maintained that its forces helped protect civilians during a UN-sanctioned mission in Rwanda at the time.
The two countries have had a frosty relationship since 2006 when a French judge implicated Rwandan President Paul Kagame in the downing in 1994 of then-President Juvenal Habyarimana's plane - an event widely seen as triggering the killings.
President Kagame has always denied the charge.
He says Mr Habyarimana, a Hutu, was killed by Hutu extremists who then blamed the incident on Tutsi rebels to provide the pretext for the genocide.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7542418.stm
i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language
Basar on
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Honestly, there are pictures of French troops standing by laughing as women are raped at roadblocks, and then killed and thrown into ditches.
France also helped genocide-perpetrators to escape Rwanda and have sheltered them since, refusing to extradite them so that they can stand trial at the International War Crimes tribunal.
Mistakes were made by the French government in 1994 and the preceeding years and it's time they stood up and took responsibilty for their actions.
And before all this kicks off, yes I do have an idea what I'm talking about - my parents have lived in Rwanda for the past three years and I have been out there four times now.
Is there any reason why the France government would let lose a genocide on an ex-colony? Regardless, this will be used as further proof for African despots that everything that is going wrong with their countries is because of the damned whiteys and that as long as everyone gives all their money to the despot everything will be all right.
I actually don't even have the words to respond to this.
Got an idea for you - why don't you read up on the fucking facts before blasting off ill-informed positions?
I'm sorry, but what is so outlandish about the claim that African despots blame the problems currently in their country on Europe/USA?
What does that have anything to do with Rwandan genocide?
Not much, but I was assuming that is what Cesca was shocked about?
I'm still curious about France's motifs and why this research was not conducted by an independent international team.
the wiki on Rwanda isn't great.
The New Times (the English-language newspaper in Rwanda) ran a brilliant series of articles a year or two ago, extracts I think from a book, which were extremelly detailed. Might still be archived on their website : www.newtimes.co.rw
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Because Europe unnaturally carved up the continent. The result is that many of these nations contain factions that do not like each other, and have not liked each other since antiquity. And since their "nationality" was imposed by an external power, it's pretty much a pretty name and nothing more. Also, one of the favorite techniques of the ruling powers in the colonial period to maintain control was to play groups off against one another, making the situation worse.
*e
book We wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our family
Catherine André and Jean-Philippe Platteau: Land relations under unbearable stress: Rwanda caught in the Malthusian trap (1996) in Journal of Economic Behavior & Organization Volume 34, Issue 1, 1 January 1998, Pages 1-47
Abstract: This paper reports the findings of an in-depth case study of a highly densely populated area in northwest Rwanda which has been conducted during the period 1988–1993. It demonstrates that acute competition for land in a context characterized by too slow expansion of non-agricultural income opportunities has resulted in increasingly unequal land distribution and rapid processes of land dispossession through both operation of the (illegal) land market and evolution of indigenous tenure arrangements. It is also shown that pervasive incidence of land disputes and the threat of landlessness have led to rising tensions in social relations and even within the core of family life, thus paving the way for evermore overt expressions of disharmony and violence. A connection between these ominous conditions and the civil war that broke out in 1994 is established.
I suppose we in the west and east are happy as a clam to sell them a shitload of guns to - and then loaning them the money to buy the guns from us.
You know I just am trying to figure out where personal responsibility enters the picture but goodness it sounds like we've really screwed these people up.
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When Victims Become Killers - Colonialism, Nativism, and the Genocide in Rwanda by M Mamdani (2000),
Silent Accomplice: The Untold Story of France's Role in the Rwandan Genocide by Andrew Wallis (2006),
The Role of France in the Rwandan Genocide by Daniela Kroslak (2007).
Well, we did. That's just the simple, plain, and brutal truth.
So in short: France delivered weapons and gave support to maintain their influence in this ex-colony. It is still unclear for me what they had to gain from this, Rwanda doesn't have oil or delivers cheap labour to France, right? I'm just confused what the hell Mitterand was thinking.
What options do we even have to fix this? All I can think of is a patronizing and demeaning total intervention by western powers...
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I'm not sure. I think the idea that supporting the Hutu-dominated government was better politically for France. Maybe he really liked his coffee? Whatever, they were there, they armed them, and for some reason stuck around to help.
I recall some of this being discussed in A Problem From Hell: America and the Age of Genocide (Samantha Power, 2002). It's a great book, though it focuses more on the U.S. role in various genocides over the past 100 years.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
i'm going to go ahead and say that would probably make things worse
yeah, go IBM
No kidding. Duh.
But what solutions do we have?
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i don't know if there is any
we could pretend to conquer the whole area and unite them against a greater foe, maybe
Probably because France had colonial possessions nearby.
Not really.
Let China and Russia fix it?
They seem to be investing in Africa a lot of these days, and Africa doesn't have the same reasons to hate them as they do against Europe...
i am going to requote:
What's outlandish is you making generalizations about what Africans do.
I would point you to the case of China re: Darfur, since that's been getting pretty heavy press coverage what with the Olympics. It's obviously not all China's fault since really the international community's response in general has been sorely lacking, but they've played a pretty significant role in allowing genocide to continue unabated.
right, if i want to do it that way i should probably just construct a fake alien body and make it explode in a large, important city
"I say, the one thing we've succeeded with in Iraq is in uniting the world against a common foe, ourselves. It's as if the entire world has become one single nation united in their hatred against us!"
"That's true. We even have our own flag."
"Oh yeah? What is it?"
"Same one as yours, but on fire."
How do you fix what basically amounts to the rape and pillage of a continent and it's people?
I strongly recommend botht eh book and the documentary. I do know there is a movie coming out with the same name losley based on the book but have not seen it. Also Colonel Oliver, NIck Notles charecher from Hotel Rwanda was loosley based on Lt-General Dallaire.
...we may have done some shit.
France trained troops and delivered weapons to the government troops under the pretense of safeguarding the stability of the region. Even Kourchner (current foreign affairs minister and in the region around the time of the genocide for Médecins Sans Frontières) admitted that the France government had " made mistakes". This new report goes further and states that French soldiers raped and murdered civilians and demands that ~33 French politicians and high military guys appear in court.