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Clone Wars

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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Sam wrote: »
    Empire wasn't a fluke. Empire wasn't a fluke at all. You've pretty much just cast aside the careers of both Irvin Kirshner and Leigh Brackett by saying that, when it was, in fact, those two who heavily influenced Empire to be such an outstanding film.

    Those two, mixed with a creative team who knew how to up the ante without repeating themselves, is what delivered Empire.

    Not just Kershner's talent, but the balls he had to tell Lucas to his face that he was a hack and his ideas were shit.

    Wait, what happened here?
    One memorable exchange of dialogue was partially ad-libbed. Originally, Lucas wrote a scene in which Princess Leia professed her love to Han Solo, with Han replying "I love you too." Harrison Ford felt the characterisation was not being used effectively, and Kershner agreed. After several takes, Kershner told Ford to improvise on the spot. Consequently, Ford changed Solo's line to "I know."[8][16]

    One example. Kershner went against instructions a lot and according to a biography of Lucas I read, it nearly drove George insane. I think he used the words "You're ruining my movie"

    Not specifically in reaction to the Han Solo line though, I'm sure even Lucas would agree there.

    You know, I always wondered about that. That's a great line. It's not only perfectly in line with the character of Han Solo but it even helps define him as a character.

    I always wondered how Lucas could have written that and then given us the horrid dialogue that was in every scene between Padme and Anakin in the prequels (and this is coming from someone who overall likes the prequels. Those scenes though...dear god those scenes). That the line he wrote was "I love you too" explains it.

    It's all clear now. He just plain can't write romantic dialogue.

    Well, it's like what Harrison Ford said during the filming of ANH(I think): "You can write this shit, George, but you can't say it."

    I probably got the line kinda wrong, but you get the idea.

    yalborap on
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    Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    While we're slightly off topic from the CloneWars are more about Lucas being too involved....

    One of the main reasons Lucas had to do the prequals on his own is because he's not part of guilds in Hollywood, which means he can't pool into the same actors that everyone else can, or something along these lines... Alot of it relates to how the Star Wars movies were filmed, there's no opening credits with the names of actors being displayed, this apparently breaks some rule the guilds have in place which you get fined for, which is why George isn't a part of the guilds, and why the picks for talent was a bit limited...

    Indiana Jones on the other hand DOES show credits at the beginning of the movie, as such the talent he was able to grab a hold for that one was a little better, however I also believe that Spielberg is the prmiary man behind that ship, as illustrated by the end of the newer Jones movie, which I wont get into....


    But yeah... I'm pretty sure that plays a big part in it...

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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    How'd he get around it for the original trilogy then? Different rules or was he a member back then?

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    Fatboy RobertsFatboy Roberts Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    Empire wasn't a fluke. Empire wasn't a fluke at all. You've pretty much just cast aside the careers of both Irvin Kirshner and Leigh Brackett by saying that, when it was, in fact, those two who heavily influenced Empire to be such an outstanding film.

    Those two, mixed with a creative team who knew how to up the ante without repeating themselves, is what delivered Empire.

    Not just Kershner's talent, but the balls he had to tell Lucas to his face that he was a hack and his ideas were shit.

    Nothing Leigh Brackett wrote ever made it into Empire. And the bigger turd on Leigh Brackett's career is to ONLY remember her as one of the people credited on The Empire Strikes Back. She adapted "The Big Sleep," and worked on "The Long Goodbye," "Rio Bravo," and "El Dorado." Her influence on Empire is pretty much non-existent, and I'm not even certain, if I remember right, that Kasdan even knew what she had contributed when he sat down with Lucas and Kurtz and hammered the script out.

    As far as Kershner telling Lucas he was a hack, that never happened. The famous story of Lucas kidnapping his own print came less from creative differences, and more from money problems. Kurtz basically lost himself producing Empire, lost himself totally, and Lucas was losing money because of it. The production budget almost doubled and the movie was getting later and later. His attempt to play "supereditor" and rescue the movie was spurred almost solely by the money issues. He also later admitted his cut was garbage and gave the film back to Kershner once he realized how poorly he was overreacting, and how shitty and artless his cut was. The "clashes" between Kershner and Lucas were minimal at best, and letting Harrison Ford ad-lib isn't exactly the smoldering thumb in the eye of George Lucas that it's being described as.

    Empire's story is Lucas and Kurtz. Empire's script is Lucas and Kasdan. Empire's pace is Kershner. Empire's look comes from getting Peter Suschitzky, usually Cronenberg's Director of Photography and probably the best DP to work on a Star Wars film. Couple that with one of Williams' best scores ever, and Frank Oz, and you get what Empire is: A double edged sword of an awesome film, responsible for elevating Star Wars beyond pulpy fun into "Great Film" status, and also responsible for the most annoying fanboy trend of the past 15 years: Thinking the sole reason a piece of genre entertainment is good is directly proportional to how "dark" and "adult" it is.

    Fatboy Roberts on
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    Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    VoodooV wrote: »
    How'd he get around it for the original trilogy then? Different rules or was he a member back then?

    He was a member, and I think he paid the fines, and shortly after the release he said "Screw you guys" and stopped being a member...

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    GimGim a tall glass of water Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    VoodooV wrote: »
    How'd he get around it for the original trilogy then? Different rules or was he a member back then?

    He was fined out the wazoo.

    Gim on
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    Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    To preserve the dramatic opening sequences of his films, Lucas wanted the screen credits to come at the end of the movies. Though more common now, this was a highly unusual choice at the time. The Writers Guild and the Directors Guild had allowed it for the first Star Wars, but when Lucas did the same thing for the sequel, they fined him over $250,000 and attempted to prevent the film from reaching theaters. The DGA also went after Irvin Kershner. To protect his director, Lucas paid all the fines to the guilds. The resulting feelings of frustration and persecution caused him to drop out of the Directors Guild, Writers Guild, and the Motion Picture Association.[8]
    Lucas was fined by the Directors Guild of America for refusing to have a standard title sequence in his Star Wars films. After paying the fine, he quit the guild. This made it hard for him to find a director for some of his later projects. According to some, he wanted his friend Spielberg to direct some of the later Star Wars movies, but as a member of the guild Spielberg may have been unable to do so. Spielberg has repeatedly stated that Lucas consciously did not let him direct any Star Wars films, despite the fact that Spielberg wanted to. Other directors Lucas pursued to aid him were David Lynch and David Cronenberg, both of whom declined

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    FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Lynch and Cronenberg? Wow, a SW film directed by either of them would certainly have been an interesting experience, to say the least.

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    GimGim a tall glass of water Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Lynch was in the running for Jedi for awhile. He declined to do Dune.

    Sadness soon followed.

    Hadn't heard about Cronenberg before, though.

    Gim on
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    Fatboy RobertsFatboy Roberts Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Lynch was approached to direct Jedi, and Cronenberg's DP shot Empire.

    The rumor I remember swirling about in 97-98, one that got lost to the ether of the internet unfortunately, was that Lucas was looking to pursue the prequels in the same way he tackled his sequels: Farm out the writing and directing, and just handle the story and production.

    According to the rumor, which sorta disappeared, and was never proven or disproven, that before he decided he'd just write and direct all over again:

    Prequel 1: Directed by Joe Johnston
    Prequel 2: Directed by Frank Darabont
    Prequel 3: Directed by David Fincher

    The rumor had him abandoning this after a few preliminary talks resulted in people telling him he should just write and direct it himself. Once Episode I was underway, he decided to do all the prequels in the same manner. The Fincher rumor kept popping up, but was divorced from the other names typically.

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    Ashy LarryAshy Larry Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Back to Clone Wars.

    Saw it about an hour ago. It wasn't terrible. It played faithfully to the television series in most ways. Of the 98 minute movie, probably 80+ were mindless battles and duels. Which is what you are going to see. If you're expecting Citizen Kane from this film then you're fucking deluded.

    The main detractor is the fact that the movie did have 15 minutes or so of speaking. The new characters are annoying as shit when they aren't busy killing something.
    Transvestite Hutts also really took me off guard

    There were a lot of things I did like about the film though. I really dig the art style. It's easy to hate it when you've seen all of 3 minutes intercut from trailers. Once you get into the thick of things, it is a very easy design for your eyes to follow in the midst of a purely action movie. I also enjoyed how much more fleshed out the droid armies were.

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    tofutofu Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Gim wrote: »
    Lynch was in the running for Jedi for awhile. He declined to do Dune.

    Sadness soon followed.

    Hadn't heard about Cronenberg before, though.
    Sadness? Really?

    tofu on
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    GimGim a tall glass of water Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    tofu wrote: »
    Gim wrote: »
    Lynch was in the running for Jedi for awhile. He declined to do Dune.

    Sadness soon followed.

    Hadn't heard about Cronenberg before, though.
    Sadness? Really?

    Well, I'd rather he had done Jedi than Dune.

    Gim on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well, should Ashoka die a horrible death eventually at the hands of Vader, Stormtroopers, or the Apprentice?

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    bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    Well, should Ashoka die a horrible death eventually at the hands of Vader, Stormtroopers, or the Apprentice?

    well yoda's heavy handed foreshadowing leads me to believe she will die before the tv series ends. I'm guessing ventress, who is then killed by anakin.

    But i don't follow the EU anymore, so there already may be a cannon death for Ventress.

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    i n c u b u si n c u b u s Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I actually liked it a lot. My gf and I are huge Star Wars fans so it was pretty much a must and I even brought my 9 year old little sister who loved it too. I like the style of the animation and it pretty much felt like a SW's movie to me. Was it the best ever? No of course not but then again this one wasn't really made to alter the storyline in any major way. For me it was a cool addition/take to the series and I enjoyed it.

    PS- Best part was seeing all kinds of kids in the theatre dressed as full blown storm troopers. So badass.

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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Dac wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Man, Lucas needs to be stopped, and possibly waterboarded until he tells me the exact location of the original prints of Star Wars.

    This had me thinking, shouldn't fans have some sort of legal rights? I mean, we made Lucas rich so we hold him to keeping the franchise awesome. Now he has failed and I think fans should hold him accountable. Yeah, sure he made rich and we can boycott but when someone fucks up something as big as Star Wars then he should be let go and let someone like the boys in Bioware take over the legend. Just a thought.

    Are you honestly saying he shouldn't have creative control over his own franchise?

    Are you high?

    A parent that continually whores out their children and exploits them for money doesn't deserve to be a parent, and can have their children taken away from them.

    Same logic applies.
    Yes except in this case we are not talking about human beings but movies which actors can decide whether or not they take a role.

    So really it's not the same logic whatsoever.

    The Muffin Man on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    Well, should Ashoka die a horrible death eventually at the hands of Vader, Stormtroopers, or the Apprentice?

    well yoda's heavy handed foreshadowing leads me to believe she will die before the tv series ends. I'm guessing ventress, who is then killed by anakin.

    But i don't follow the EU anymore, so there already may be a cannon death for Ventress.

    I think Ventress is good now from what I remember reading on Wookiepedia.

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Huh. Reading on it, apparently Quinlan Vos had a death scene written in ROTS and then got it removed at the last second and the comic writers were asked to spare him.

    Live action series appearance anyone?

    Bloods End on
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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    FUCK droid comic relief.

    Local H Jay on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Well, this movie appeared to be pretty awful.

    I say "appeared" because I didn't finish it. It's the first movie I've straight-up walked out on in...well, years.

    Luckily we got our money back. We were just there because it was ninety degrees in our house (no, really) and we wanted to soak up some AC. After about 45 minutes we decided we'd rather be sweating our asses off at home.

    I may throw it into my Netflix queue, so I can see if it gets any better without dropping fifteen bucks.

    mcdermott on
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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Or you could just watch it when it airs on Cartoon Network (or whatever channel the series is running on).

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Or you could just watch it when it airs on Cartoon Network (or whatever channel the series is running on).

    Oh, yeah, don't get me started on charging theater prices for what is basically a TV pilot. That takes balls that go clank right there.

    mcdermott on
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    FUCK droid comic relief.

    It was fun in the old series. Mainly because C3P0 was everyone's bitch.

    yalborap on
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    bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Or you could just watch it when it airs on Cartoon Network (or whatever channel the series is running on).

    Oh, yeah, don't get me started on charging theater prices for what is basically a TV pilot. That takes balls that go clank right there.

    I finally realized that is why I didn't enjoy it. If I had watched it on TV, it would have been fine. But if I'm going to the theater and paying $10+ (plus another $12 on drinks and snacks), I want something better.

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    That looks rather good. A lot better than the movie.

    Plus, Plo Koon!

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Fuck Plo Koon. It's all about the mother fucking Kit Fisto.

    If they have a Quinlan Vos appearance, I will literally shit my pants.

    Bloods End on
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    Nakatomi2010Nakatomi2010 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    If you look at the movie as a TV pilot it really isn't that bad... I'm sure they'll air it on TV before the actual series begins...

    Need to remember though, it is for kids, not adults... When I sat down to watch with that in mind it was actually pretty entertaining to watch...

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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Were those Y-wings with their entire outer hull? neat.

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