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The girl is crazy hot, also she's crazy
Raziel078
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I work at a bar. Last night a girl who is AMAZINGLY HOT was talking to me. The conversation went from casual conversation to religious/political debate to intensely personal. I was at work so I couldn't just sit and talk to her and her friend kept pulling her away to go dance but we did talk for quite awhile. So anyways I got her number and asked if I could give her a call when I got off work. Usually about 3am. So I give her a call leave a message and she calls me back we are then on the phone for almost two hours. During this time she spent about 30 minutes telling me how sexy it was that I'm intelligent and well spoken and that while talking I looked her in the eyes and not in the chest and how she was really attracted to me. Oh and she's stupid rich. Boo Hoo a really hot girl who is actually interesting likes me. What's the problem right? Remember the intensely personal part of the conversation? Well here's the wonk, she is a recovering addict. You name it she's done it. I've worked in bar's and restaurants for 5 years I know what people who do lots of drugs look like. I never ever would have guessed she did drugs if she hadn't told me. So shes in rehab right now sober for almost 3 years. Also she was sexually abused as a child. What do I do. I like this girl. But even minus the other stuff I'm aware of myself enough to realize that shes probably not the girl I'm going to marry. While the conversation was still sexy and not really serious she said that shes really not looking for anything serious either so maybe that's not a thing. But I have like 4 thousand other things in my mind. Like the health question if we do do something together how do I bring up the whole "hey you used to do IV drugs so have you been recently tested for a broad spectrum of VD's as well as HIV and AIDS?" There's other stuff too but that and the fact that I am a fat nerdy guy who doesn't get into situations like this...ever. Is sort of fucking with my head.
P.S. I don't think she's actually crazy per se, but she definately has problems and it made for a catchy title
P.P.S. I don't find it odd that she told me so much so quickly as people have been doing that to me for most of my life. Just telling me everything about themselves after only like an hour of conversation. I typically find it to be a burden I know it makes other people feel better but it weighs on me as I don't know what to do with the information
P.P.P.S. Also this isn't the first time that I've been really attracted to a girl who has a lot of these types of problems. Am I attracted to emotionally damaged women? I'm really worried about that too.
P.P.P.P.S. Sorry for the novella
P.S. I don't think she's actually crazy per se, but she definately has problems and it made for a catchy title
P.P.S. I don't find it odd that she told me so much so quickly as people have been doing that to me for most of my life. Just telling me everything about themselves after only like an hour of conversation. I typically find it to be a burden I know it makes other people feel better but it weighs on me as I don't know what to do with the information
P.P.P.S. Also this isn't the first time that I've been really attracted to a girl who has a lot of these types of problems. Am I attracted to emotionally damaged women? I'm really worried about that too.
P.P.P.P.S. Sorry for the novella
I would like to put something clever and about me but I fear my company will find it
Raziel078 on
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Obviously you're interested in this girl and it's good that you've discussed how serious (or lack thereof) you would be about the relationship. I would say follow this up with limited expectations. Just because she's had a history with drugs doesn't mean she isn't a person that's worth your time.
You don't want to sit around regretting what could've been a fun oppurtunity. You don't have to marry her. You and her both seem like you just want to have fun. So seriously, just go have fun. Everyone is damaged, in some way or another. You can't hold the past against her.
thanks for the advice guys if anyone has any knowledge to drop though it would still be appreciated
where is she on the hot/crazy scale?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYrZSjpiIK4&feature=related
also, in seriousness, it seems like she's trying to get over her past. I say try and do so as well.
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Also, yeah, I think as a recovering addict she should probably understand if you express some concern about disease. If she didn't understand that concern, that'd be a deal-breaker for me.
Here's hoping for the best.
Something about that seems way off to me, there are just too many red flags. If she had been drinking, then yeah, it would be entirely plausible for her to get a little loose-lipped, and start talking about some personal stuff... but who tells a complete stranger "So hey that last Cosmo was delicious and by the way my uncle Jerry raped me repeatedly when I was eight years old and ever since then I've had these major intimacy issues and I can't reach orgasm without a teddy bear. Anyway, could you get a girl another drink, big boy?" Also, she said she's been sober for three years, so she shouldn't even have that as an excuse. Unless it's one of those "Oh, I totally quit doing any drugs, I'm clean, but oh God do I love me some vodka, I can't function without half a dozen shots!" deals.
So, pick your poison, man. Either she's an honest emotional wreck who can't hold her liquor and thinks that switching from hard drugs to alcohol counts as sobering up, or she's a manipulative emotional fucking minefield who uses sob stories and her own hotness to play mind games with guys too desperate to notice that things don't add up.
Also, the best way to suggest she get an STD (or STI, whatever they're calling them now) test is for you to offer to get one too. It's not like getting tested is ever a bad idea.
Be hopeful and excited about this new relationship you've developed with this person that came basically out of nowhere. Proceed with ease, but also remember to look out for yourself and sensitize yourself to who this woman really is as things develop with more dates and conversations.
So your advice here is, "ignore the people who gave advice based on what the OP has told us about the situation he needs advice on. There could be body language that explains away her drug problem, alcohol abuse, and codependent behavior". Awesome.
Alcohol Abuse - Where in the OP does he state that she has problems with alcohol abuse?
Codependent behavior - Seriously, are you all fucking professional psychiatrists? How in the hell did you come to this conclusion?
You guys are way too fucking confident with your judgments. Fuck off.
And I shouldn't have picked on kaliyama since he did suggest the option to give the girl a chance.
But Kate has gone to the extreme of "RUN AWAY!" and how in the fuck can that be good advice?
Classy!
If the girl is bad news, it's pretty damn solid advice, I think.
Look, we know that this girl:
All of this adds up to "avoid" in my mind, but hey, if the OP wants a fling at the expense of a vulnerable girl's emotional health (at best) or putting himself in the hands of a manipulative barfly (at worst), that's his call. He asked for advice, and people have every right to advise him that, "hey, there are some red flags here".
Like I said, he should see where it goes with a hint of caution. Not dive into it obliviously.
And Jesus Christ, it may just be the minimal availability of conveyed tone in internet text or something, but you seem like one smug, self-satisfied motherfucker.
If she's into you, and you are into her, you should go for it. Just make sure to define the bounds of the relationship if you are nervous about commitment or anything like that. Oh, and make sure you both get tested for STDs (especially HIV/AIDS).
I don't think Kate or I thought she was a bad bed because of drugs - I think you're projecting your own issues onto the narrative.
We know
A) the girl has talked to the guy for a sustained period, once
c) claims/is wealthy - given her past, this is probably hereditary, accidental, or gained through unskilled labor. Money + any of those combinations indicates even more instability. Or she's not wealthy and is a compulsive liar.
d) Has said 'she's not looking for anything serious'
e) He met her at a bar - and he's the bartender.
These things, put together, tells me she's not the kind of girl who is seeking out a nice, attentive, safe guy like the OP. I think she wants excitement, and someone who will challenge her/seem dangerous (the typical trope is that a girl wants a jerk, which I don't think is true). A lot of people with emotional or physical abuse seem to seek people who can be authority figures/express disapproval. Most likely, she wants to be on good terms with a bartender at a place she likes, so she can be treated well... having the approval of authority/establishment figures wouldn't hurt, either. Especially because OP gets people to open up, which is a good skill for a bartender to have.
I assume Kate reached a similar conclusion for similar reasons - drug use might make sense with this pattern, but minus any concerns about disease from needle-sharing, it isn't because she used to be an addict, it's because she seems to have the same bad behaviors as manic depressives or drug users.
My advice boiled down to: you can try, but she's crazy, so don't expect much out of your efforts.
If we were to continue this, it would be more of a D&D thing as I can already tell that our disagreements are the result of our own philosophical projections and perspectives on humanity. Whatever the case, it's up to Raziel's actions and we can piss our mouths all we want, but shit, what's the point?
She has a past, that's been drawn out. You know all about it, and she's made herself VERY vulnerable by allowing you, someone who in my eyes, has already judged her, to come into her world, hoping for some understanding on your part. She's been sober, what, 36 months? That's a moth-er-fuck-ing astounding feat. It's time to move past that, and worry about the bigger things in this relationship.
a.) Are you attracted to damaged goods? In a word, yes. But, all guys are. Everyone wants to be the knight in shining armor, and everyone wants to be the one to rescue the damsel, to be her escape route, to be the good part of her life. Even if you don't realize or don't think that's how you behave, it's true. It's hardwired into us. Knowing that, we move on to...
b.) Is she really attracted to you? Some people are much easier to talk to than others. I'm much like you - many of my friends, colleagues, relatives, and strangers (this is a huge one, I learned this in college...) find it extremely easy to open up to me, to become vulnerable, in search of of a way to release pent up tension and strife, or, on occasion, for advice. This is one of the reasons why I am pursuing the vocation of therapist/psychologist.
Keep in mind, it is rarely that anyone is searching for advice - more than anything, people search for a pillow and a shoulder, not a self-help book. Often times you do more for a person by remaining quiet, listening, showing acknowlegment...than by giving your 2 cents.
So with that in mind...is she attracted to your Pillow-&-Shoulder qualities, or you and your personality? These are things you need to sort out before you take advantage of a crucial situation. While she talks about her life, bring up things that are not about her past. Talk about the things you share in common, what you both enjoy. If you can have a real meaningful discussion without her going on about her past, than maybe you've just hit something really special with this lass.
c.) If you DO decide to get involved with her, dont bring up the Disease/STD thing up on a date or right before intimacy. You talk on the phone, right? You've had long conversations, right? Bring it up then, when it's easier to be open about personal health, when it isn't in a situation of infatuation. How has she been in these past 36 months? How has her recovery been? Has she been to the clinic, checked out her health status? These are questions you can ask her in this moments of close discussion that AREN'T about self-service, but about caring for her health, rather than yours.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
You are pretty unsure about this, right? Or you wouldn't be coming to H/A asking what to do, right?
There are probably plenty of women in your life that aren't major drama with huge, gigantic, airport rental carts full of baggage, right?
So why her? Why not one of the many available women you undoubtably know or meet during the course of your job?
quick and easy?
I'm going to be the only logical person in this thread:
wear a condom, let it ride.
just see where it goes, see if the next time you talk to her she says more or less batshit crazy stuff. Finally, make good use of her money while you can. Also, if you're just going to pump and dump, wear chainmail or some other knife-proof vest to work for the next few weeks. . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There's nothing wrong with going for a couple of dates with someone with the full knowledge you're not looking for something long-term. I'm not advocating a "pump and dump" strategy, that's just offensive, but there's nothing wrong with something turning out to just be a fling, as long as you're honest about your intentions.
If there's something there you find interesting and you enjoy her company, then go for it. Dating isn't for establishing the basis of a relationship, it's for finding out more about the other person - who they are, what makes them tick, and do you want to pursue this any further. The only way you can find out what might happen is by giving it a try. It might be a disaster, so keep your eyes open and be prepared to get out of there if it doesn't work - but you regret the things you don't do a hell of a lot more than the things you do.
I agree with what they've said too. Seems like a pretty level headed analysis of the situation, at least from the information given so far. You may not "like" what they're saying, but for better or worse it's most likely true. If you don't mind wading through the intense psychological problems that being sexually abused brings about that's your business, but don't get upset because the rest of us see it for what it is and are telling him it's nothing but trouble.
Yeah there are red flags, but are you holding out for ms perfect to fall into your arms? Everyone is going to have some sort of problems or sob stories. So hers are throwing up more red flags then normal, who cares? You don't have to marry her before even going on a first date! Just enjoy yourself. As you get to know her more you can figure out if its something you want to pursue.
And yes, I like trowzilla's idea of suggesting you both get tested, but that isn't something you have to do on a first date. Even if things get hot and heavy you can get each other off without having intercourse. Condoms do offer good protection against most things...but they also break on occasion. And if you have intercourse even once before you bring up getting tested, won't it just make it harder to bring up?
I say chill out and go for it.
There is no need or reason to wait for someone "better", people should not be so judgmental.
And with regard to yourself.
I like to solve problems, I like to make people happy, and I understand the whole I'm gonna be your superhero baby and make everything better mentality that lands you a crying girl in your arms. If you're aware of this then your fine. If you fell madly in love with dying or extremely tragic women it would be a problem, but clearly you recognize whats going on and see a tough situation before you get sucked into it. You are probably just easy to talk to, and thats not a bad thing.
I'm sure you would be happy with a strong independent woman who doesn't need you. But those women don't fall into your arms so easily and can be intimidating to approach. You have to introduce yourself to them. (also, these women are less likely to be at a bar in my experience).
That said, be aware of her past. Yes, it's very awesome that she's in treatment, and good that she was up front and honest with you. She's gotten help and is hopefully moving on with her life. But don't put up with any shit. If it seems like her entertainment revolves around getting wasted, or she keeps breaking agreements to meet up with you or anything annoying like that, then you know she's still crazy. She's done you a favor by letting you know what she was capable of. At the first sign of anything like that happening now, get out.
Still, don't let your imagination go crazy. If she really does seem kind and together now, then go for it.
Also, some advice from a (formerly) fat guy to another. Stop doubting yourself. Now. No, stop. It's not unusual for a beautiful person to be attracted to a larger person. Many beautiful girls find themselves in a paradox, since it's still generally the guy who has to make the first move. They get hit on by slobbering, egotistical dumb jerks, and the genuinely good guys are too intimidated to talk to them. No, really! It's not uncommon for beautiful girls to have a hard time finding a decent person to date. She wants someone intelligent, someone who can give good conversation, someone who doesn't treat her like meat. Believe it or not, that's more attractive to many beautiful girls than a set of massive pecs. You sound like you have a LOT going for you, honestly. Don't doubt your attractiveness.
I've seen some negatives on having this person open up to you a lot during your first conversation, but I don't see it as a huge red flag. I think thats just a green flag for you, not the other way around. Personally, I have one of those demeanours that people open up to, and they end up telling me crazy shit first time out that they haven't spoken about in years. I'm unshakeable, impossible to offend, and so without judgements and seeing a person who is actually, genuinely interested in what they have to say, they say things. Man do they ever.
Also, some people like to try and find the shock line, the things that go on in their lives that ordinary people would just be all aghast at. As their story falls down deeper into the rabbit hole, it isn't long before they realize they can tell me anything- I've seen and heard it all. I'm not the type to bail just because someone has had an interesting life or made some strange decisions. Maybe you're like this as well, you seem easy going enough; you might just be a great listener. Doesn't mean she's this open with everyone, there's a very real possibility it could just be you.
The two hour chat? This bodes pretty well for mutual attraction. It's not just that your a good listener, I think your actually interested in finding out more. You like what she has to say, and vice versa. You're talking too, and she's picking up what you're putting down. Good stuff.
So here I see the 'Things you need to get out of the way' conversation. Sure, you might be attracted to each other, but if you can't deal with the life sitch, you should probably part ways. Blam, she's had a drug problem and by her words, wont be doing drugs with you. She's got family issues, so bbq's in the backyard with her folks and creeper brother/uncle/whomever are not going to happen. Baggage dude, everybody's got it. You've got some to no doubt. What matters here is whether or not that shit is a deal breaker- looks like you're thinking about it.
Think hard. I can deal with baggage because whoever is with me has to deal with my baggage, which I can assure you is pretty fucking extreme. If you are relatively baggage free, you may want to seek someone similar. There's a balance that needs to be hit, and although theres some leeway, baggage needs to be mostly even because hauling an unbalanced load puts strain on the relationship.
Commitment issues. Try it on, see how it fits. If shit is too crazy, bail- no hard feelings. She thinks its worth a shot. Maybe you do to. I'm not suggesting a hit and run, I don't think you're that type. But explorering life and mutual chemistry for a bit, maybe a few months, could be a good plan before commiting to anything deeper, or even thinking about commiting to anything deeper. 'Let's keep things light' is a solid plan for anyone with serious life issues or a heavy past.
Okay, so that a pretty retarded thing to say. But the issue is valid- troubled pasts make for troubled futures and sexual safety is fucking important. My advice here is too helmet up/ no oral for a while and see how things go. If you're interested in a month or two, check out what she's doing for brith control, and then mention that you really interested in monogamy and suggest that both of you get checked for STD's.
Doesn't matter if you know you're clean, get checked. Doesn't matter if you're a goddamned virgin, get checked. The point of the excercise is to say 'this is what responsible people do before they get really truly hot and heavy with each other. I will do my part, you will do your part.' It's an expectation, non-negotiable, and needs to be handled, no exceptions. Birth and disease control is a shared responsibility - the first responsibility you'll share as a couple. It is a very reasonable and intelligent thing to suggest, and even comforting to each other to know that you both are capable of taking these things seriously.
Heh, this was buried, and I only read it after I had written the above. You're a good listener, bonus. I had thought as much. What I find helpful, is too realize that being there and listening is doing something. It weighs on you because that burden is now shared. You feel a bit heavier, but I guarentee you they feel that much lighter. That's the gift. You don't need to 'do' anything beyond that.
People need to be understood, they need to have someone hear thier story and know that it happened to them. They also need people to be able to listen and not judge them by what happened, and I think you've got a talent for that. Don't treat them differently as a person because of the past, treat them as they are right now. It's a great feeling to have someone who knows you've been through the shit and still treats you like a normal human being. Those kinds of people are rare and meaningful. Small wonder she likes those qualities in you and finds them attractive.
I often say I have a thing for 'crazy' girls, and I've been with my fair share. 'Crazy' is just a term I say in jest though, I don't actually think these girls are mentally defective. What I like is complicated people. I am a complicated person. People I can read and figure out in a heartbeat are just not that interesting. They make good friends, but I can't hold a deep personal interest in them. I need that complexity to feel that that person is a good match. I have an ability to be with and understand complication, and I feel unneeded when those abilities are not in play. I like to, I need to, be able to put that effort into another person.
I don't see this as a bad thing. There are simple people everywhere, they are the majority. They will be happier in the long run finding people like themselves. Extremely complex lives need others who can understand and empathize with that kind of life; understanding each other on a basic and intuitive level is an important foundation for any relationship. You're going to be attracted to the people who can resolve that need for understanding in yourself, such a thing is healthy and natural, and there is absolutely no reason to be concerned about that.
Whatever you decide, good luck. An interesting life is a double edged sword, to be held and managed with care.
seriously, I don't think you're going to get any better advice than that.
I have a history of sexual abuse, and with a close family member, no doubt.
So uh, fuck you?
And Sarcastro, I like you, man.
At the risk of making a broad generalization here (because it's impossible not to, since none of us actually know this girl) relationships with people who have serious issues are, to say the least, hard. Even relationships that are casual. Maybe especially relationships are casual. In any case, one shouldn't take lightly getting intimate with someone who is emotionally fragile. You should examine exactly why you're pursuing this girl.
If the answer is that she seems really interesting, and seems like a nice person who you'd like to get to know better, than by all means pursue her. But do so with the understanding that it's going to be hard, and in the end might be more trouble than you're willing to deal with. If your answer is that you really want to bang her because she's hot, well, I don't really need to spell out how shitty that is.
There's lots of hot chicks out there who aren't recovering addicts and most likely emotionally fragile who you can bang. This girl doesn't need another person added to her most likely long list of people who have used her.
I still think the OP should go with it. It's a new experience, and if anything, it'll help him in future relationships.
Sarcasto's whole post deserves to be limed.
If this girl has a long history of abusive, addictive behavior, why is she hanging out for hours on end at a bar? That's what's raising the most red flags for me. I've spent a lot of time around addicts (and I've had a couple of my own demons to purge over the years), and when you've recovered from that, you don't get to just substitute one vice for another.
Well, not unless you don't mind relapsing multiple times.
Man I don't know if this is a mistake you've made yet or not, but if you've been there, you'd probably know that it's not usually worth it to go and make a stranger's problems your own. You're unlikely to be able to help because you lack the foundation of trust and intimacy necessary to really make a breakthrough anyhow, and you're going to be miserable for probably quite a good while as a result of trying and (almost certainly) failing.
Try to ignore the fact that you want to do sex on her when making this evaluation, because you'll pretty quickly find yourself in a situation where it's no longer (or never going to be) happening. If this is purely one of those "man I should do her but she's a mess is that worth it" things, then dude, move on. She probably doesn't need that and trust me, it's not.
Basically I'm saying it's hard to give advice here without knowing the situation better than you could possibly be expected to explain. As a result I can only suggest that you move on. Safer than sorry, etc.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
1. Sarcastro: You officially win. Best most level headed advice and you read my whole post congratulations
Honorable Mention goes to: Kate of Lokys: The worst case should always be considered and like some brutal phantasm, gore covered and born from while inspiring nightmares anew you did that with a complete and utter disregard for the kid gloves.
2. cooljammer00: I love that show and that scale will now inform every single conversation I have for the rest of my life.
3. Here's how it went: Not really anywhere. I called her we talked a little more. I picked a time when I knew the call would have a time limit and I would have to go. So after 30 minutes of talking I told her I had to go and asked her to give me a call back the next day. That was Thursday of last week. I know right, all that angst-ing and it amounted to nothing. Oh well, it was kinda exciting while it lasted.
Just to clear up a few things. I am a very cute fat guy. I get hit on a lot at my bar but since my bar has an older crowd (mid-30's and up typically) it isn't exactly what I'm looking for even in a hookup. So having a young chick talk to me was nice. I work security not bartender and even when I'm not at work I do not buy strange women drinks, it's a waste of money and time either she liked you before you bought the drink or she didn't if she likes you because of the drink she's not worth the time. I have, in the whole of my life, bought a girl a drink 5 times.
So, was it all just cod shit? Maybe, I don't know. Was she really just some nut bar who get's her jollies off of getting people to believe her lies? Maybe, I don't know I've never fallen for that before and I've caught people trying to do that too. Did anything bad happen to me as a result? Nope. Did anything good come out of all this? Nope. Would you call it a zero sum game? Yeah, yeah I would.
On the plus side some mildly punk rock 34yr old made out with me and touched my peep while at work this past weekend. So that was nice.
Thank you all for your advice every little bit helps.