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Unquenchable Anger
Regolith
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm a jealous guy. I realize this fact and never try to deny it. I try not to have girlfriends because I realize I don't want to subject them to the unrealistic demands of my jealousy. Also, I'm in college, so I'm busy enough. However, currently I've been going out with this girl for a year and a half or so. What can I say, she was very convincing.
She's never done anything except kiss with any of her previous boyfriends. She is extremely into me (possibly too much for her own good), so I don't even have to ask her to not do things that would make me jealous. She doesn't hug her guy friends, because she knows it'd make me jealous. I know that's sort of extreme, but she doesn't even mind. She just wants to make me happy. I trust her almost 100%...which is remarkable for someone who gets as jealous as I do.
Everything is basically excellent with her. Then recently she told me that she was molested by an acquaintance when she was younger. I can't describe my anger. As I've been writing this I've already had to get up and pace several times. I'm normally very pacifistic, but when I think of what happens I'm filled with unending rage. She told me exactly who he is. I hate injustice, and the fact that he was able to touch her like that and get away with it drives me insane. Her family basically kept it quiet and told her to forget about it, because they said it'd do her more harm if it were revealed (this is also why I'm keeping this post vague. she doesn't want people to know).
I'm probably more angry about this than she is, at this point. It keeps me up at night and makes me physically ill. Whenever I try to forget about it, the memory just eats away at the back of my mind until it finally comes bursting out and fills me with impotent rage even greater than before. I haven't told her any of this; she would be devastated. I just told her it doesn't matter to me what happened to her.
Right now we're away from each other for work and vacation, but soon we'll be back together. When it comes time for us to do sexual things, though, I don't know what's going to happen. It might bring up the memory until it becomes too painful to continue and jealousy overwhelms me. It's hard to explain. I'm close to her, so I almost feel like it happened to me. OK, that sounds very pretentious, like I'm trying to pity-whore off of her misfortune. It's more like I just can't stand the thought that he was able to do that to her and get away with it. Punching things doesn't help. Nothing helps.
I know what the right answer is. I shouldn't be so bothered about this, and I should just stick with her because she's great. I can't control these reactions, though. My brain is telling me to break away from her because getting close just makes me angrier.
What should I do?
She's never done anything except kiss with any of her previous boyfriends. She is extremely into me (possibly too much for her own good), so I don't even have to ask her to not do things that would make me jealous. She doesn't hug her guy friends, because she knows it'd make me jealous. I know that's sort of extreme, but she doesn't even mind. She just wants to make me happy. I trust her almost 100%...which is remarkable for someone who gets as jealous as I do.
Everything is basically excellent with her. Then recently she told me that she was molested by an acquaintance when she was younger. I can't describe my anger. As I've been writing this I've already had to get up and pace several times. I'm normally very pacifistic, but when I think of what happens I'm filled with unending rage. She told me exactly who he is. I hate injustice, and the fact that he was able to touch her like that and get away with it drives me insane. Her family basically kept it quiet and told her to forget about it, because they said it'd do her more harm if it were revealed (this is also why I'm keeping this post vague. she doesn't want people to know).
I'm probably more angry about this than she is, at this point. It keeps me up at night and makes me physically ill. Whenever I try to forget about it, the memory just eats away at the back of my mind until it finally comes bursting out and fills me with impotent rage even greater than before. I haven't told her any of this; she would be devastated. I just told her it doesn't matter to me what happened to her.
Right now we're away from each other for work and vacation, but soon we'll be back together. When it comes time for us to do sexual things, though, I don't know what's going to happen. It might bring up the memory until it becomes too painful to continue and jealousy overwhelms me. It's hard to explain. I'm close to her, so I almost feel like it happened to me. OK, that sounds very pretentious, like I'm trying to pity-whore off of her misfortune. It's more like I just can't stand the thought that he was able to do that to her and get away with it. Punching things doesn't help. Nothing helps.
I know what the right answer is. I shouldn't be so bothered about this, and I should just stick with her because she's great. I can't control these reactions, though. My brain is telling me to break away from her because getting close just makes me angrier.
What should I do?
Regolith on
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Now that you only have anger to deal with, Why should you be any angrier than her? She went through it. Your writing doesn't make her sound traumatized or bitter.
At a guess? Because he feels he owns her body.
Well I would think She's hugging that guy
Her chest is pressing against his. That makes it less special when I touch her chest. I'd probably be more sad than jealous or angry. Maybe I'd be angry at him if it were against her will.
I realize as I'm typing this that that is a completely ludicrous description of something as innocuous as a hug.
As for why am I more mad then her, well she is actually still a bit bitter about it. I can tell which parts of her personality are reflections of the event. Also, she's had many years to cool off. I guess I'm just more emotional than her when it comes to these things too.
One thing that strikes me as being completely awful is your attitude towards what happened to your girlfriend. On one hand you make it sound like you`re angry due to the injustice your GF has experienced but then you go on about jealousy - like you`re pissed off that some guy "knew" your GF sexually before you, like it somehow undermines you.
You're completely missing the point of the situation. You should be helping her deal with this, not fuming with rage over it. I think the metaphor of "adding fuel to the fire" is apt here. Seriously, get help or have a good long look at yourself.
You don't have any power over her. That's the first thing you need to get through your head. Just because you're an item doesn't mean either one of you "owns" the other. You need to completely illiminate that kind of thinking.
I know I'm sounding like an asshole but I'm moreso trying to be firm. The way you're thinking is completely wrong and is the sort of thing that becomes abusive over time - whether it is physical or mental.
If you're not willing to get help then everytime you get that feeling you have to say to yourself "Stop thinking like that. It's crazy.".
Also, if what had happened had been something consensual with a previous boyfriend, I would probably not be bothered. Mostly the injustice and the inability to do anything about it is what gets me.
Certainly you have experienced injustice at one point in your life (if not, well good for you). Now imagine an injustice happened to someone close to you. That's basically what my anger is.
edit: also I realize it's destructive. that's precisely why I want to fix it before I'm close to her where she can notice the anger, which would lead to her being hurt.
Life is far too short to spend long periods of time alone if you can avoid it and do enjoy the company of others (in reference to your comment at the start about avoiding people due to acknowledging your anger/jealousy issues).
Edit: also, this isn't going to be a quick fix. The sooner you seek help the better, but this is part of who you are. For now at least.
There's plenty of injustice in the world to go around, but if you let it all keep you up every night, you're not doing them or yourself any good. You don't have to be a heartless, cold robot of a bastard that lacks even a hint of empathy to not let things eat at you constantly.
I mean, on paper I'm very forgiving. I'm against capital punishment and yay go batman for not killing the villains. When it happens to someone close to me though, I can't think like that.
Also, i've been to a therapist before, for a separate, unrelated issue. It was a waste of time and money (eventually the problem was fixed with time).
Being angry at someone who did something wrong to someone close to you is fine, just deal with it rationally. If it was a long time ago she is likely over it. Not everyone dwells on the past. If she is over it, you should be too.
The way you talk is a little bit scary. I'd go get therapy.
Think about it this way. I'm sure most of you believe in monogamous relationships, right? Both partners agree to not have sex with other people, kiss other people, etc. What is wrong with both of us not hugging other people? It' s not like I told her "don't hug other people or I'm going to break up with you" or even pressured her. We both just told each other we wouldn't.
I do think you could use some help getting over this anger issue you have. If you're unwilling to see a therapist think about anger management classes or something.
Having a nearly uncontrollable desire to physically harm someone, for any reason, for an extended period of time isn't healthy. It's consuming you, by your own admission. Is this really what you want to define you?
And that's kind of nuts. Relationships are about personal exploration with a like-minded person. If you're closing things off for oneanother it's not a positive relationship.
This right here should make you give your head a shake. Putting on a show to be a tough guy is all well and good when your with her, but you need to show some empathy as well.
If you don't want to seek professional help to attempt to reason through this I would suggest you go out and get yourself a heavy bag. Beat the hell out of that thing and vent. It's not the best answer, but it's better then destroying things if you happen to get really mad... and after the workout of beating that thing senseless, you might just be able to sleep.
Well, hugging isn't sex. It's usually a harmless display of affection/friendship.
People are fixating on it because from what you've said it sounds as if you have deeper problems than the anger that you're asking about.
As to the anger, you probably should talk to a professional about it if it's as extreme as you say. If you refuse to do that, then you need to get over it on your own. It is irrational. It's not up to you to deal with this person for your girlfriend. If she's over it, then fine. If not, then you should be there for her to comfort and help her through it, but that's it.
Someone close to me was abused by a relative, and the family pretty much buried it to avoid tearing the family apart. I think that's bullshit and wish it had been handled differently, but I wasn't directly involved and I didn't find out about it until after the abuser had died. Sure it upset me that it happened, but I had to deal with that and realize that it wasn't really up to me to do/say anything about it.
?
We are like-minded on this issue. By your same reasoning I shouldn't close her off from kissing other people or having sex with them.
As for the whole holding hands thing, don't try to use a slippery slope argument. Everyone draws their own lines. Some people have open relationships where both partners can have sex with other people. We both drew the line at hugging.
Also, to clarify, I don't have anger issues in general. This is the only thing I've ever gotten angry about to such a degree, by a large margin.
If your girlfriend was molested by a guy, and you knew who he was and were able to see he lack of even a modicum of guilt and yet were unable to do anything about it, would you not be angry? I'm just completely crazy for being angry about this?
I think you're misinterpreting what I said. I told her it wasn't her fault, and that I wouldn't think differently about her because of it. I didn't brush it off as if it were nothing or something.
While I understand your anger, I honestly find your response a little weird - you say that "the memory" might become too painful. What memory, exactly? You weren't victimized, your girlfriend was. If you allow what happened to her to negatively impact your relationship, you are allowing this already awful thing to hurt her again. I do not believe that is what you want.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
No, it doesn't matter that you're like-minded on the issue. Hugging and kissing are not the same thing as sex and if you view them that way there's a problem. There's also a difference between you guys having a conversation about hugging and her agreeing to not do it because it bothers you. You're on a slippery slope with that line of thinking. If hugging is bad, what about holding hands? What about a kiss on the cheek? What if a friend accidentilly walked in on her changing? What if she flashed some guy?
It's fine that you're angry about what happened to her but the degree to which you're angry is inappropriate.
Also, I don't understand why you're back-peddling on the anger/jealousy issue. You mentioned it in your OP and then even went as far as to describe your thought process when there is an "offense" and now you're saying it doesn't exist.
I'm not sure what you wanted from the people here. I think it's clear to everyone what the issue here is but you say you refuse to get help. Did you expect us to tell you that you were completely justified in your rage and that you should go kill the guy? Because I doubt that's going to happen.
Lets gets serious, she was molested in her youth. That's a reasonable thing to be angry about. Anger is a desire to do something- usually when one is prevented from doing so.
There's a couple of things you could do. Let's focus on the appropriate ones. Most of this stuff is handled by channeling. Your brain is built to be able to do this. Ever hear of 'misplaced anger'? That's what happens to anger out of control. When you do it on purpose, it moves to using or channeling your anger.
Do you work out? Picture buddy, fill yourself with rage, and then use that to fuel your run or your kickboxing session or whatever. After a while, those thought will stop having the same intensity, the same reaction, and they wont seem as big to you. Call the problem, think about it, allow yourself to react physically, yet appropriately.
You can try to move from rage to a place of understanding. These things happen, and its a big problem. Arm yourself with how these things happen, why they happen, what should be done, what actually happens and why. Try to prevent the situation from happening to others (not with this one individual, but on a grander scale). Move the focus from within, to helping in the outside world. Be more willing to give drunk freinds rides home, keep an eye for bad situations forming, and do your best to help in them, dedicate a part of yourself to taking a stand in what you can do in real life.
As I mentioned, anger builds because you can't do anything about it. But that's not exactly true. You can do something. You can be a better guy. You can make her life just that much better. You can treat the people in your life better. When you get angry, ask yourself what you have done recently to restore that balance in her life. Have you told her she's beautiful? Have you done something nice for her? Have you made her day?
Be the balance. That bad thing happened, but you can be the good. Experiences like that bring us to where we are, make where she is worth it. Put your energy into that. Put your heart into that. You can't do a damn thing about the past, but you sure as hell can shape the future. That is the something you can do, and doing something will make it better. Promise.
She also gets jealous of me with other girls. It's a mutual feeling. I wouldn't care if she held hands with the guy. I'm not saying I don't get jealous, I'm saying that's not a problem really because she doesn't really do anything that would make me jealous (and I don't do anything that would make her jealous). Everyone has a line that they draw in their relationships. We drew it at holding hands. Maybe you draw it at your girlfriend making out with a guy. Maybe you have an open relationship. As long as it's mutually consensual and not hurting either person, i'm not going to judge you. Either way, I've already said that's not really the reason I'm angry.
I'm angry about the injustice. Are you saying that I'm NOT justified in being angry at a a guy who molested my girlfriend?
I will try some of these things. Honestly, though, I'm not sure how well they'll work with me. I'm thinking that I'm just going to keep thinking it's bullshit that I have to punch some bag to try to get my rage out will this unrepentant bastard got to do whatever he wanted and for all I know is still doing that stuff to people.
As for making her happy, I usually do a pretty good job of that, despite everyone seemingly thinking I'm some crazy jealous asshole. The jealousy thing almost never comes up. She doesn't know that I'm angry about this issue. I just don't want to hurt her, which is why I'm trying to deal with it.
My current contingency plan if I'm not able to deal with it is to gradually break it off with her in a way unrelated to this issue, because she probably deserves someone better than me anyways.
Injustice happens all the time. Do you become apoplectic with rage when you see those United Children's Fund commercials, or when you pass homeless people, or hear about human rights abuses? Probably not. The difference here is that injustice happened to someone you know. That is regretable, but at some point you have to ask yourself what exactly being so angry has accomplished. So far, all it's done is make you lose sleep and question whether or not you can be with your girlfriend anymore.
Stop allowing yourself to be ruled by your anger. Make a real effort at some of the things Sarcastro suggested - don't be so defeatist.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
You say that some other guy being in contact with her chest (during a hug, mind, no hands-on contact) makes it less-special when you touch it. That seems unreasonably possessive and restrictive. Now you keep drawing parallels between that kind of possessiveness and the sort that causes people to restrict their partners from having sex with other people, but the reality is that there are worlds of difference between a friendly hug (an act devoid of sexual content or excitement - would you be insanely jealous if she hugged a gay guy? What about another girl?) and having sex or making out. You can't just apply the same terms to both actions like they are analogous. Treating any sort of contact with your girlfriend beyond the wrist as a slight on your own relationship with her is not healthy.
Getting back to the past molestation. Considering the signs of possessiveness, it's not that much of a leap to infer that a large portion of your rage comes from not the fact that someone else hurt your girlfriend - in any case she's gotten over it, the injury has more or less healed - but that someone else did something sexual with your girlfriend. See how the possessiveness is relevant? How angry would you be if she had had consensual sex with a past boyfriend and told you about it? If you can shrug that off without any trouble, then I'm probably wrong. If not, the motivation for your anger is misplaced, and getting professional help to deal with it might be something to look into.
I already mentioned on the previous page that I would probably not be nearly as bothered by that scenario.
Dude, it doesn't matter that it's mutual. It's completely irrational. And, you're ignoring my point that there's a huge difference between a hug and making out. I have trust in my relationship and that's why it's lasted more than 8 years. In that time she's been hugged, kissed, held hands, whatever and it doesn't bother me because we trust each other. Making out with other people is a non-issue because I know it wouldn't happen.
Also, I said you were justified in your anger - not the other way around. It's just that the level of anger you're feeling is inappropriate. Next time read my post.
You can either give over your life to the actions of this guy, or you can take control over your own life. Right now, you are giving him control over your thoughts, your emotions, even your relationship. Anger literally makes you stupid, and the choice and reactions you have under the influence of anger will also be colored by that. I'm not suggesting you make the problem go away by punching a bag. I'm suggesting that if you're going to be temporarily made stupid, go be stupid on an inanimate object with no feelings and no lasting consequences.
After a while, and I mean quite a few sessions here, your anger will run 'cold', and you'll be able to think calmly and cooly about the situation you're in. Anger closes off the ability to take in the big picture, to make wise decisions. Right now, you can't think about the problem without getting emotional, and that prevents you from thinking about the problem effectively.
Because this:
is (no offense) fucking retarded man. You're letting this guy fuck her over twice. That is twice fucked for no other reason than being around the wrong people. That's injustice. Making her pay twice for something that isn't even her fault. Think about that, because if you let this other guy control your reaction, you are taking his side.
Is that the side you want to be on? I thought you were angry at this guy. What are you doing helping him out like that? If your upset about the issue, the damage done to your girlfriend, why not choose to limit that damage instead of making it worse?
I don't really think you want to make it worse, I'm just giving you the gears a bit to point out how badly this is affecting your decision making process. I wouldn't make a plan of action until you get past the emotional reaction, or you might wind up regretting it. And that would suck for you man, because once the anger fades (and it will, eventually) you're going to look back with regret. I'd hate to see that happen, being in that I truly think your heart is in the right place, it's just breaking a bit.
But you need to realize that what is a fresh wound for you is an old scar for her, and you need to not involve her in it by picking at it. The important thing is for you to be able to be there for her if she ever accidentally rips it open herself.
Second, while it's okay to be angry, you do NOT get to be jealous. It's absolutely nothing to be jealous about, and just.. don't be that inflamed asshole.
It sounds like you really need to take a step back and look at some of your reactions. I realize that's what you're trying to do here, but maybe you need to take a step further back now so you can see why these aren't reasonable. Your responses here aren't even all that reasonable. If you're angry at her, or when she's around, you're doing it wrong. It's fine to be angry at the guy, even angry at her family, but then you have to get over it, as she has chosen to try to do.
Let me say it again: You do NOT get to be jealous about this. As someone said, YOU weren't molested. This is painful for her, and you're being selfish. She obviously feels safe enough to tell you now.. but she's probably had to deal with this bullshit (and it is bullshit) from too many other people she's told.. people who don't believe her, people who will say it's her fault, people who can't look at her the same way. If you let this get to you even a little bit, you're hurting her in a very direct way that believe me, future words will never fix. This is not a debatable point.
When it comes to sexual things, don't act different, but be gentle with her, listen to what she's telling you, etc. If she says stop you stop. If she doesn't, don't worry about it.
As for jealousy, that's a tricky subject. Jealousy tends to come out of two things: possessiveness and/or insecurity. Pretty much everyone likes to justify their jealousy, which is what you're doing with "I guess I should just let her have sex with other people, right?" What you're ignoring is that sexual monogamy is common and fairly expected in our culture, where forbidding someone from hugging other people (or just other guys) is very, very extreme. Your reasoning, that her chest touching someone else in a friendly, platonic way devalues you touching her chest in a romantic and sexual way, and that smacks very hard of possessiveness. You're acting as if you own her body and someone else touching it is stealing from you; that's not how it works. That's why other posters are suggesting that part, maybe even an unconscious part, of your anger is that someone else touched your girlfriend sexually before you even met.
Personally, I feel that the jealousy is something you need to grow out of. Before you make a snarky comment, I'm not saying you should have an open relationship. There are plenty of good reasons for monogamy, such as disease prevention, not having the time to spend with other people without neglecting your partner, stability, and even just plain personal preference. Monogamy is not a bad thing. The kind of jealousy you're talking about doesn't strengthen your relationship, though, it weakens it, because either you're insecure and you don't trust her, or you're possessive and feel like her body belongs to you. Neither one is a good emotion to foster, and by not working on getting past that, you're encouraging yourself in your bad emotional habits. Jealousy tends to escalate, too; what are you going to do when your girlfriend hugs a guy whose father just died and you go into a rage? What happens when you're in a crowded elevator and your girlfriend's chest brushes against some guy's arm? The super-jealous boyfriend isn't a romantic idea in real life, he's scary and controlling.
I know you feel that your previous experience in therapy was a waste of time. Please don't generalize that all therapy is a waste of time; that's like saying "I ate at a restaurant once and the food was bad, thus, all restaurants serve bad food." From your post and your defensiveness with your follow-up posts, I think this anger and jealousy is so far ingrained in you that you really do need professional help. If you're in school, you can probably get free or very cheap counseling through Student Health; if you're out of school and money is a problem, try your county's health services.
I am amazed at times how you don't have more people putting your quotes in their sigs Sarcastro.
Never the less, I whole heartedly agree with him and many others. Finding an outlet like say boxing or something where you can get a bit of physical exertion can certainly help rather then letting this build up and become even more unhealthy for you. A lot of folks have had some really good advice in regards to this.
In regards to the contingency, again I'll agree with Sarcastro. You would be punishing her for his actions which she was an unfortunate recipient of. If anything it only adds more weight to what he did and in the end could make her end up feeling like she is someone who doesn't deserve to be cared for in a loving way by a person she feels she can trust. You would be punishing both of you if you broke it off for that reason and frankly, though there are some issues you should deal with, I think both of you deserve the best oppurtunity to be happy with one another.
You seem to be reading all the responses, but brushing off the advice somehow. You may agree it's "good advice", but you'll say you don't think it will work for you. You may just flat out say "no", like the therapy suggestion(s). Aside from therapy, punching an inanimate object, channelling your anger, and/or reassessing the situation to a point where you can solve your problem...I'm not sure what else is left to suggest to you. You seem (from what I've read) adamant that your problem does not necessitate therapy, however, you clearly have some issues you need to work out, and therapy is probably one of your best choices...especially if you seem incapable of figuring out a solution on your own, which seems to be the case. I don't mean that to be offensive - it's just that frequently, a therapist may be able to suggest a strategy, or make a destructive train of thought apparent to you, when you could not get the second-perspective to see it on your own.
I would highly suggest you at the very least try some of the advice that's been suggested. Therapy seems to be the most often thing suggested, and there's a reason for that. We're not brushing off your problem and telling you to "go see a therapist". We're suggesting to you that, based on what you've told us, talking to a professional on this matter would be highly beneficial to you (AND, as a result, to your girlfriend), and is probably one of your best options.