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New Webcomic - Deleted Scenes

graffd02graffd02 Registered User regular
edited September 2008 in Artist's Corner
2008-09-01-A_New_Hope.png

Let me know what you think.

Deleted Scenes - A Movie Commentary Webcomic by Dave Graff-http://deletedscenescomic.com
graffd02 on
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Posts

  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    If you had read the rules of the forum, you would have realized that you can only post new threads if you have art in them. Posting links to your websites is just considered sitewhoring.

    If you don't want this locked, I suggest you edit your post.

    NightDragon on
  • graffd02graffd02 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    ack sorry, changed the first post, to follow the rules...

    graffd02 on
    Deleted Scenes - A Movie Commentary Webcomic by Dave Graff-http://deletedscenescomic.com
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    graffd02 wrote: »
    ack sorry, i posted in the wrong area.... please delete... also... where am I supposed to post this?

    You can post it here, this is a critique-based art forum, you just need to post art, and not website links.

    NightDragon on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    graffd02 wrote: »
    I also have project-wonderful adspace available to those who want to advertise any similar comics.

    Why would you want to advertise the competition?

    MagicToaster on
  • graffd02graffd02 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    graffd02 wrote: »
    I also have project-wonderful adspace available to those who want to advertise any similar comics.

    Why would you want to advertise the competition?

    Because I have no problem with helping other people getting started, It will help me as well... monetarily...

    graffd02 on
    Deleted Scenes - A Movie Commentary Webcomic by Dave Graff-http://deletedscenescomic.com
  • MangoesMangoes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    2008-09-05-The_Other_Dwarves.png

    That photo in the first panel has a shocking resemblance with this one, but the characters are arranged differently:

    7dwarfs.gif

    What do you think, guys? Looks like tracing to me.

    Mangoes on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    graffd02 wrote: »
    graffd02 wrote: »
    I also have project-wonderful adspace available to those who want to advertise any similar comics.

    Why would you want to advertise the competition?

    Because I have no problem with helping other people getting started, It will help me as well... monetarily...

    So, you want to help them get started, but you're charging them money. At the same time, you manage to drive your small readership away to another comic. This doens't sound strange to you?

    MagicToaster on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    cap'n it's definitely not tracing of that particular image, none of those characters that he's drawn look to be in the same positions as any of the characters in the pic you provided.

    my biggest complaint is holy god make them a bit bigger, my eyes are getting worse with age, i can't read this you crazy kids!

    beavotron on
  • MangoesMangoes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    It's not direct tracing, but if you look at the faces, imagine all of them rotated/flipped and you can see it. I would do an overlay, but I don't have Photoshop right now.

    EDIT: There are a few that aren't, such as the sleeping guy and the one with the glasses. But they can still be from other references.

    Mangoes on
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    CapnMango wrote: »
    It's not direct tracing, but if you look at the faces, imagine all of them rotated/flipped and you can see it. I would do an overlay, but I don't have Photoshop right now.

    EDIT: There are a few that aren't, such as the sleeping guy and the one with the glasses. But they can still be from other references.

    i think all of them have been ref'd from somewhere, the question is where?

    either way, it's really jarring that those ones were done in the disney style but the other two more of his own style
    look at how gabe treats drawing characters from games and other comics
    it's always completely in his own style, so yeah... disney isn't your personal style, so just draw the dwarves as you would normally draw them, people will still be able to tell what they are

    beavotron on
  • MangoesMangoes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Looks like my guess at the reference was wrong.

    http://graffd02.deviantart.com/art/The-8th-Dwarf-94230858

    That's a picture from his DeviantART, and it clearly has all of the same poses as the one in the comic, so he must've traced some other photo(s).

    Mangoes on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    CapnMango wrote: »
    Looks like my guess at the reference was wrong.

    http://graffd02.deviantart.com/art/The-8th-Dwarf-94230858

    That's a picture from his DeviantART, and it clearly has all of the same poses as the one in the comic, so he must've traced some other photo(s).

    ...or he just drew each character separately, and copy-pasted the same images that he drew for both this comic, and that Deviant image.

    Speaking of, here are the references:
    http://www.philipmrussell.co.uk/dreamweaver/images.htm

    NightDragon on
  • MangoesMangoes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Yeah, that's what I meant.

    I suck at talking.

    Also, nice job finding the refs.

    Mangoes on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Well, I have Photoshop, and checking the references...yeah, they're pretty obviously traced.

    Protip: don't trace.

    I'd second Beavo's comment about how you should draw the characters in your own style - they'll still be recognizable, in the same fashion that Gabe's rendition of other characters are still recognizable, despite the fact he drew them in his own style.

    You can imitate a style if you want, sure, but tracing isn't going to get you anywhere, especially when it's so obvious that the other two dwarves were done freehand.

    NightDragon on
  • graffd02graffd02 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    CapnMango wrote: »
    2008-09-05-The_Other_Dwarves.png

    That photo in the first panel has a shocking resemblance with this one, but the characters are arranged differently:

    7dwarfs.gif

    What do you think, guys? Looks like tracing to me.

    Not traced, I create my images through adobe illustrator, I do use reference images so that I dont completely screw up the look/color scheme of a character, but I don't trace. Thats the first time I've seen the image above, I actually used individual shots of each of the dwarves to create their pictures and then arranged them together into a group.

    as the site updates (automatically set to update every monday from now till february) hopefully this will be put to rest...

    graffd02 on
    Deleted Scenes - A Movie Commentary Webcomic by Dave Graff-http://deletedscenescomic.com
  • graffd02graffd02 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    That IS my work above (the deviantart piece) I did move the characters that I created around to make it.

    have a look at these images...
    http://graffd02.deviantart.com/art/DELETED-SCENES-14-ET-79347040

    or
    http://graffd02.deviantart.com/art/DS-21-By-the-Letter-V-and-83186299

    i understand the jokes aren't the greatest...

    I DO use reference images, its important to me that people can recognize the movie,
    i dont trace...

    Of course no matter what I say or show I will still have doubters, but hopefully as I continue to create more comics, i will slowly change my style to less realistic, I understand this...

    anyways... thanks for the feedback, negative as well as positive...

    graffd02 on
    Deleted Scenes - A Movie Commentary Webcomic by Dave Graff-http://deletedscenescomic.com
  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    you want to head for less realistic? this is extremely simplified with little to no detail
    doesn't get much more unrealistic looking than over-simplified vectors

    beavotron on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    graffd02 wrote: »
    That IS my work above (the deviantart piece) I did move the characters that I created around to make it.

    I DO use reference images, its important to me that people can recognize the movie,
    i dont trace...

    Of course no matter what I say or show I will still have doubters, but hopefully as I continue to create more comics, i will slowly change my style to less realistic, I understand this...

    ...hahaha, look. I honestly don't have a horrible problem with you tracing the characters, but I think it's kind of shitty that you're denying it. If you had traced somebody's original character, or some unknown's drawing and called it your own, I would have had more of a problem with it. However, these characters are so iconic that it's obvious they're in the "original Snow White style". You're also referring to them as themselves, not your own characters. So, in a nutshell, that's why I don't particularly care that you traced.

    However, lying about it?

    It's obvious that you traced, not only from the fact that your other, non-traced work is obviously not up to the same standard...but because of stuff like this:

    Trace.jpg

    Those are your references (that I found and posted in my previous post), overlaid in Photoshop at 50%. If there were any slight deviations in where the lines were, it would be bloody apparent. Hey, look! I even chopped off half of the reference you used for Dopey, to show your work underneath! Perfect match, and you also eyedrop'd the color, too! The dwarf on the far right is a complete match. If I had a .gif program to show how exactly every line matches up, it would be even more obvious.

    So yes, sorry, "you still have doubters", and I am one of them. And frankly, looking at the rest of your Deviantart gallery, a large portion of those are probably traced, too.

    Don't lie about these things. Honestly, if you really want to improve, tracing probably isn't the best way to go about it, anyway.

    P.S. you can still "trace" in Illustrator!

    NightDragon on
  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I'll trace an outline around your dead fucking body!

    NakedZergling on
  • JimpyJimpy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So would tracing be considered using a reference photo for your own art or would tracing be (literally) tracing a image in photoshop. I'm just wondering because sometimes I'll use a reference photo and draw the defining features on paper and then use that drawing to make my own interpretation of the character (even though it might be really near the original).

    Jimpy on
  • Sentinel XIVSentinel XIV Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Jimpy wrote: »
    So would tracing be considered using a reference photo for your own art or would tracing be (literally) tracing a image in photoshop. I'm just wondering because sometimes I'll use a reference photo and draw the defining features on paper and then use that drawing to make my own interpretation of the character (even though it might be really near the original).

    I wouldn't consider that tracing. I think tracing is opening a picture in, say, PSD and tracing over the image with a paintbrush. I'm trying my hand at drawing now, and I constantly use pictures and images on television as reference.

    Sentinel XIV on
    F**K C*N**RS**P!!*!
  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Using an image as a reference is in no way tracing. People get mad when images line up virtually pixel for pixel. It's honestly lazy and something that virtually anyone can do, making it that much more insulting in an art related thread/book/convo...etc.

    If you need to trace something to help you lear...to make your mind understand something that's cool, but don't pass it off as your original work.

    Lots of comic artists will do loose thumbs or pencils and "trace/ink" over them either traditionally, or digitally, or with a light box. Since it's the artist work being "traced" it obviously doesn't count.

    Basically tracing or painting over is artistic plagiarism.

    NakedZergling on
  • KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2008
    If you're following the lines, you're tracing.

    Anything else ain't tracing.

    Kazhiim on
    lost_sig2.png
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    What a depressing thread

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • MangoesMangoes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The idea of you tracing images alone could be forgiven, because you could really only be trying to get your jokes out with something mildly pleasing to look at behind them. But the fact is, you came in to the Art section to post them. Meaning you really only came for website hits and asspats, because you clearly wouldn't take any feedback we gave you, because you couldn't even put out the effort to make your own art in the first place.

    Mangoes on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I can barely read any of the text in the comic in the OP. Needs to pick a more legible font if you're going to be setting it that small.

    DarkPrimus on
    usnTyq4.jpg
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • The_Glad_HatterThe_Glad_Hatter One Sly Fox Underneath a Groovy HatRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    the font is awfull. In the first post it's too small to read, and in the dwarf comic it's big enough to read, but it just shows it's a rather bad font. THe doube "S" in depressy just creates a big unsightly gap in the word, and generally the font has an unpleasent-to-read wobbly flow.

    in the dwarf comic; the "things that didn't make it to product X" joke is incredibly unoriginal.. There's one webcomic that does this lame unending line of failed megaman bosses... and it's not the only one doing comparable stuff. Just turning someone female/ skanky and calling it funny is not new anymore, and general anti-emo jokes are so... well.. 2007...

    On the tracing issue: if you want a comic to get respect for its art, even if you're just a beginning artist, try to do SOMETHING with the originals.. yes, it's important that people recognise all the dwarves but:
    1) a comic is text + images. the text already says it's the 7 dwarves, so it would take a special kind of special for people not the realise that the seven dwarves you just drew are, in fact, the 7 dwarves.

    2) try to do at least something of your own hand in the dwarves... perhaps just draw them in pencil while looking at the screen reaaaally good, and trace that drawing of them. Even if it's virtually identical to the original, it wont be the same, it will have come from your hand, drawn in your style and shape. Why not adapt their eyes or nose shape to the shapes you regularly use to draw noses/ eyes.

    The_Glad_Hatter on
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Jimpy wrote: »
    So would tracing be considered using a reference photo for your own art or would tracing be (literally) tracing a image in photoshop. I'm just wondering because sometimes I'll use a reference photo and draw the defining features on paper and then use that drawing to make my own interpretation of the character (even though it might be really near the original).

    Tracing/copying your own work is fine, but directly tracing a photo or someone elses illustration is wrong. I trace my own images all the time in photoshop. Your method is probably a good way to create your own interpretation of the original photo reference.

    winter_combat_knight on
  • Castle_BuilderCastle_Builder regular
    edited September 2008
    The argument as to whether this is "tracing" is IRRELEVANT

    because what it IS, is the visual art worlds equivalent of plagiarism

    if you use a reference and produce something that is a total replica then its no better then tracing

    to then call the "artwork" original is nothing more then a lie

    and to call it your own is just another lie

    STOP LIEING and STOP BEING BAD AT ART

    Castle_Builder on
  • NibCromNibCrom Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The text in your first comic is really hard to read. I would use a different font and make it larger.

    Also: I think "Deleted Scenes" is probably too focused for a comic. It's not going to lead to much variety.

    NibCrom on
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Its nice to see people calling other people out on tracing.

    I traced photos once, someone called me on it...and I dedicated the next four years of my life to learning to draw.

    I have been avoiding calling people out on tracing on this forum for awhile, but this brought back some important memories. I think I will start again.


    also, I find this hilarious: http://graffd02.deviantart.com/art/DS-21-By-the-Letter-V-and-83186299

    Even if elmo and v are traced. The concept is solid.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • EdmanEdman Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Even still, it's a semi-rip of this: C for Cookie

    Edman on
  • mullymully Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    for the comic posted in the OP:

    "your not hobos"

    you mean "you're not hobos"

    this kind of simple error is something that can really ruin a comic and distract away from everything else
    for me, anyway

    need to watch stuff like that dude

    mully on
  • YogYog Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I like the Star Wars stuff, but the font is so small on the Jawa one.

    Yog on
    IA! IA! IA!
  • Jake!Jake! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The argument as to whether this is "tracing" is IRRELEVANT

    because what it IS, is the visual art worlds equivalent of plagiarism

    if you use a reference and produce something that is a total replica then its no better then tracing

    to then call the "artwork" original is nothing more then a lie

    and to call it your own is just another lie

    STOP LIEING and STOP BEING BAD AT ART

    Actually, I think Picasso would disagree with you there, Warhol too, and probably even Isaac Newton. This isn't high art, but you should probably have a think about what art is.

    Jake! on
  • SpongeCakeSpongeCake Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Mully wrote: »
    for the comic posted in the OP:

    "your not hobos"

    you mean "you're not hobos"

    this kind of simple error is something that can really ruin a comic and distract away from everything else
    for me, anyway

    need to watch stuff like that dude

    It took far too long for someone to point this out!

    SpongeCake on
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Jake! wrote: »
    The argument as to whether this is "tracing" is IRRELEVANT

    because what it IS, is the visual art worlds equivalent of plagiarism

    if you use a reference and produce something that is a total replica then its no better then tracing

    to then call the "artwork" original is nothing more then a lie

    and to call it your own is just another lie

    STOP LIEING and STOP BEING BAD AT ART

    Actually, I think Picasso would disagree with you there, Warhol too, and probably even Isaac Newton. This isn't high art, but you should probably have a think about what art is.

    I have to agree with the first guy. It reminds me of all these jackasses taking photos of architecture. Its like cheating, the architect designed it to look cool...so you shouldnt get credit for taking a photo of it. Its like me taking a picture of a statue in italy and pretending like its anything more than a photo to remember the trip by.

    Reference is great, but it should be interpreted loosely, or you should have taken the reference yourself.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • YogYog Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    cakemikz wrote: »
    I have to agree with the first guy. It reminds me of all these jackasses taking photos of architecture. Its like cheating, the architect designed it to look cool...so you shouldnt get credit for taking a photo of it. Its like me taking a picture of a statue in italy and pretending like its anything more than a photo to remember the trip by.

    Reference is great, but it should be interpreted loosely, or you should have taken the reference yourself.

    Wait, but isn't photography an art form too? Wouldn't you get credit for a cool picture?

    Yog on
    IA! IA! IA!
  • Jake!Jake! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    cakemikz: Ignorance is running round the forum today isn't it? You might want to study photography and/or architecture, then reassess your assumption. It's like saying all painting is crap, because you can doodle on a napkin with a crayon.

    Jake! on
  • JimpyJimpy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Yeah... what I am getting out of this conversation is that the only art is art that is completely new... and that simply isn't the case. Art is inspired by art. We don't go around knowing every piece of art we will ever create before we make it, because we are inspired by other art. If I were to perfectly re-create the Mona Lisa using the exact same tools as Da Vinci, I wouldn't consider myself a hack at all. Even though it is a duplicate and most likely will never be as famous as the original, it still took incredible skill to pull off. If the only pieces of art we had today were caveman drawings, then with this logic we would all be drawing caveman drawings and calling each other hacks for copying the other's head circle. Art is expression, and by mimicking another artist's style we simply show our appreciation for that art and how it has influenced us.

    (That doesn't mean I like the tracing of the dwarfs, I do consider that a hackish move.)

    Jimpy on
This discussion has been closed.