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  • the cheatthe cheat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    I love how the pro- and anti- abortion people refer to each other using the least preferred nomenclature. "Anti-choice" "Anti-life." Very adult of them.

    the cheat on
    hdm3eeo1dj12.png
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    the cheat wrote: »
    I love how the pro- and anti- abortion people refer to each other using the least preferred nomenclature. "Anti-choice" "Anti-life." Very adult of them.

    You know, I think it is very much fair to call them anti-choice, because when they're asked to support things that actually reduce abortions and make sure children grow up in secure households, they almost always vote NO.

    AngelHedgie on
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  • the cheatthe cheat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    That's not anti-choice, that's anti-logic and that's just them being stupid. I suppose you could argue that it certainly is not pro-life. Still, you don't gotta stoop to their level.

    the cheat on
    hdm3eeo1dj12.png
  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm pretty willing to label myself pro-abortion.

    MrMister on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    the cheat wrote: »
    That's not anti-choice, that's anti-logic and that's just them being stupid. I suppose you could argue that it certainly is not pro-life. Still, you don't gotta stoop to their level.

    The anti-abortion position is based on a lot of paternalizing that holds that the rights of the mother - and in many cases the very competence of a mother to make an informed decision - become irrelevant once she becomes pregnant. Calling it "anti-choice" is very accurate.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • reminderGTOreminderGTO Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Hey fellow Californians let's discuss Prop 2 (caged animals)

    At the moment I've solidified my positions on all the props except for 2 (caged animals) and the one regarding high-speed transportation. My difficulty is Prop 2 stems from our local economy. I'm all for animals being grown in habital, humane environments but can local farms deal with this now with our economy in the tanker? I understand that they have 6 years to conform but if they don't many families will be buying cheap eggs from other states with similar inhumane environments. So this really is hurting small farms and really not aiding the fight for humane treatment of animals right?

    On the other hand 6 years is a pretty long time to get used to breeding animals in humane, cage-free environments right?


    A similar issue is with the proposition on the high-speed transportation bill. That sounds like it costs a ton of money but will it be worth it in the long run? I support a lowering of emmissions with this type of transportation but it sounds like it will take forever to build and quite a lot of money. Add to that CA is bankrupt.

    reminderGTO on
    28qsde.gifZOGBY projects McCain win with 400+ EVs28qsde.gif
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Serious question from a first time voter. Are these regional propositions outlined on your voting terminal or are you expected to be well informed before stepping into the booth?

    Organichu on
  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Your state and local props should be described in your sample ballot. AFAIK there is no detailed information in the voting booth itself.

    juice for jesus on
  • MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Your state and local props should be described in your sample ballot. AFAIK there is no detailed information in the voting booth itself.

    My Ohio (Knox County) early-voting ballot had descriptions on it.

    Mahnmut on
    Steam/LoL: Jericho89
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Hey fellow Californians let's discuss Prop 2 (caged animals)

    At the moment I've solidified my positions on all the props except for 2 (caged animals) and the one regarding high-speed transportation. My difficulty is Prop 2 stems from our local economy. I'm all for animals being grown in habital, humane environments but can local farms deal with this now with our economy in the tanker? I understand that they have 6 years to conform but if they don't many families will be buying cheap eggs from other states with similar inhumane environments. So this really is hurting small farms and really not aiding the fight for humane treatment of animals right?

    On the other hand 6 years is a pretty long time to get used to breeding animals in humane, cage-free environments right?
    I can guarantee you the bulk of the price from humane products is coming from the fact that humane merchants can rip off hippies because they have no alternative. The increased competition will likely lower it significantly. That said, overall I still think they'll cost more, just not near as much as they do now. In fact, I believe the eggs at Trader Joe's are only about .69 more a dozen.

    Quid on
  • KungFuKungFu Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Your state and local props should be described in your sample ballot. AFAIK there is no detailed information in the voting booth itself.

    Sample ballot?

    KungFu on
    Theft 4 Bread
  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Are sample ballots not used in other states? In CA they send you a sample ballot showing all offices and propositions that will appear on the actual ballot on election day, with the back half being arguments for and against the various props. It has bubbles to fill in with the corresponding numbers to be filled in on your actual ballot. The back cover is a form you send in to get an absentee ballot, if you want one.

    juice for jesus on
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    We get voter's pamphlets in the mail in Oregon.

    I would operate on the assumption you should do some research before you get in the booth. There probably won't be much besides a title and short summary if that.

    Medopine on
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Oh yeah I'm personally aware of what's going on in my state, I wasn't looking for advice. I was just curious in terms of whether it just says "Prop 8, Prop 29, Prop 48" and just has a 'yes'/'no'. Considering how many people are uneducated about the presidential candidates I can only imagine how many people would effectively flip heads or tails for prop. votes.

    Organichu on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    MrMister wrote: »
    I'm pretty willing to label myself pro-abortion.

    Prolonged exposure to pro-lifers makes this all the more true

    nexuscrawler on
  • DalbozDalboz Resident Puppy Eater Right behind you...Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Organichu wrote: »
    Serious question from a first time voter. Are these regional propositions outlined on your voting terminal or are you expected to be well informed before stepping into the booth?

    The way it is in California, at least, is that the voting booth machine is identical to the sample ballot, layout and all. If you are using paper ballots (still calculated using computer), in California they now use inkdots, and I don't know if any place still uses the punch card after the hanging chad fiasco but they still generally work the same way. With the paper ballot, it is aligned in a series of boxes in rows and column, each one numbered. These numbers correspond to the numbers that are next to the spots for the candidates or the yes/no's on propositions. For example, on my sample ballot, Yes on Prop 7 has a 110 next to it, and No has a 111 next to it. So if I vote No on Prop 7, I push the ink marker into the corresponding hole in the voting machine, and it marks box 111 on the paper ballot.

    With the paper ballots, it is always a good idea to check your ballot after you mark it and take it out of the machine to be sure that the correct boxes are actually marked. The first year I voted, the pages on the machine were misaligned and out of order, so the ballots were being marked incorrectly (this was also back when they still used punchcard ballots.

    Note that I'm talking about the California voting system, but a lot of areas use very similar systems.

    Dalboz on
  • the cheatthe cheat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    the cheat wrote: »
    That's not anti-choice, that's anti-logic and that's just them being stupid. I suppose you could argue that it certainly is not pro-life. Still, you don't gotta stoop to their level.

    The anti-abortion position is based on a lot of paternalizing that holds that the rights of the mother - and in many cases the very competence of a mother to make an informed decision - become irrelevant once she becomes pregnant. Calling it "anti-choice" is very accurate.

    Uh huh.

    And they would argue that you are for the killing of a baby. So, that's anti-life.

    All I'm saying is that it's childish. Ironically.

    the cheat on
    hdm3eeo1dj12.png
  • reminderGTOreminderGTO Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Quid wrote: »
    Hey fellow Californians let's discuss Prop 2 (caged animals)

    At the moment I've solidified my positions on all the props except for 2 (caged animals) and the one regarding high-speed transportation. My difficulty is Prop 2 stems from our local economy. I'm all for animals being grown in habital, humane environments but can local farms deal with this now with our economy in the tanker? I understand that they have 6 years to conform but if they don't many families will be buying cheap eggs from other states with similar inhumane environments. So this really is hurting small farms and really not aiding the fight for humane treatment of animals right?

    On the other hand 6 years is a pretty long time to get used to breeding animals in humane, cage-free environments right?
    I can guarantee you the bulk of the price from humane products is coming from the fact that humane merchants can rip off hippies because they have no alternative. The increased competition will likely lower it significantly. That said, overall I still think they'll cost more, just not near as much as they do now. In fact, I believe the eggs at Trader Joe's are only about .69 more a dozen.

    From what I've seen, the price is somewhat negligible for better eggs at Trader Joes. And from what I'm gleaning it shouldn't be too difficult for farms to shift to humane habits. I guess I could vote Yes on 2 then.


    On another note I find it odd that my local paper has written editorials that oppose Prop 8 but endorse McCain.

    reminderGTO on
    28qsde.gifZOGBY projects McCain win with 400+ EVs28qsde.gif
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    We need an artificial intelligence to handle our redistricting.
    AI's are used. They just have completely unnecessary things plugged into them prior to them spitting out maps.

    WHAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED: City limits, population density, solve for maximum compactness (don't split up cities if you don't have to).
    WHAT SHOULDN'T: Age, gender, race/ethnicity, education level, income level, locations of incumbents' homes, voting tendencies for the love of God what the shit.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Gosling wrote: »
    We need an artificial intelligence to handle our redistricting.
    AI's are used. They just have completely unnecessary things plugged into them prior to them spitting out maps.

    WHAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED: City limits, population density, solve for maximum compactness (don't split up cities if you don't have to).
    WHAT SHOULDN'T: Age, gender, race/ethnicity, education level, income level, locations of incumbents' homes, voting tendencies for the love of God what the shit.

    Change city limits to "natural and political boundaries." - ie, county lines, city limits, etc, but also rivers, mountain ridges, etc.

    Jragghen on
  • DalbozDalboz Resident Puppy Eater Right behind you...Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    CNN has an article on Prop K in San Francisco for decriminalizing of prostitution. Proponents say it will free up police to take care of more serious crimes. Opponents say the measure will make it difficult to crack down on trafficking.

    I hadn't heard of this measure. Anyone from there know more about it? It's sounds somewhat similar to Santa Monica "legalizing" marijuana via ballot measure by putting reported incidents at the bottom of the priority list for the police. Maybe I should go to San Francisco more often. :winky:

    Dalboz on
  • the cheatthe cheat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Hey fellow Californians let's discuss Prop 2 (caged animals)

    At the moment I've solidified my positions on all the props except for 2 (caged animals) and the one regarding high-speed transportation. My difficulty is Prop 2 stems from our local economy. I'm all for animals being grown in habital, humane environments but can local farms deal with this now with our economy in the tanker? I understand that they have 6 years to conform but if they don't many families will be buying cheap eggs from other states with similar inhumane environments. So this really is hurting small farms and really not aiding the fight for humane treatment of animals right?

    On the other hand 6 years is a pretty long time to get used to breeding animals in humane, cage-free environments right?

    According to my mom, that shit is already illegal. This would just be punishing them more for infractions.

    So, they've already had their time to rectify the situation. Six years more is way too long. :/

    the cheat on
    hdm3eeo1dj12.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dalboz wrote: »
    CNN has an article on Prop K in San Francisco for decriminalizing of prostitution. Proponents say it will free up police to take care of more serious crimes. Opponents say the measure will make it difficult to crack down on trafficking.

    I hadn't heard of this measure. Anyone from there know more about it? It's sounds somewhat similar to Santa Monica "legalizing" marijuana via ballot measure by putting reported incidents at the bottom of the priority list for the police. Maybe I should go to San Francisco more often. :winky:

    We had a thread on it about a month ago.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Hey fellow Californians let's discuss Prop 2 (caged animals)

    At the moment I've solidified my positions on all the props except for 2 (caged animals) and the one regarding high-speed transportation. My difficulty is Prop 2 stems from our local economy. I'm all for animals being grown in habital, humane environments but can local farms deal with this now with our economy in the tanker? I understand that they have 6 years to conform but if they don't many families will be buying cheap eggs from other states with similar inhumane environments. So this really is hurting small farms and really not aiding the fight for humane treatment of animals right?

    On the other hand 6 years is a pretty long time to get used to breeding animals in humane, cage-free environments right?

    I'm leaning no on this because I'm unconvinced it would represent a good cost/benefit analysis, but this is just based on skimming the summary and arguments for/against. I haven't looked into it much.

    A similar issue is with the proposition on the high-speed transportation bill. That sounds like it costs a ton of money but will it be worth it in the long run? I support a lowering of emmissions with this type of transportation but it sounds like it will take forever to build and quite a lot of money. Add to that CA is bankrupt.

    I tend to oppose all bond measures unless it's for something we really, really need, like, yesterday. Government wants something, they can fucking well allocate funds for it out of existing tax revenue, and if the tax revenue isn't there, raise the fucking tax rate. Bonds are the government's way of deciding they want to spends them some money they don't have, so they'll just sell some bonds and force us to find a way to pay for it down the road.

    And when our economy sucks, this logic applies doubly. High speed transport is nice, but I ain't fucking paying for it right now.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • MahnmutMahnmut Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Isn't that backwards, ElJeffe? The economy is bad, so you spend bond monies to get it moving.

    Mahnmut on
    Steam/LoL: Jericho89
  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Plus rah rah public transport. A high-speed train from SF to LA would be sick.

    I am sad-face that it might destroy parkland though.

    MrMister on
  • the cheatthe cheat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    LA to Vegas would be sweeter. And there's nothing but miles of crappy desert in between.

    the cheat on
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  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    the cheat wrote: »
    LA to Vegas would be sweeter. And there's nothing but miles of crappy desert in between.

    Boo needs stop in the bay area.

    Then it can go to Vegas too.

    MrMister on
  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    the cheat wrote: »
    LA to Vegas would be sweeter. And there's nothing but miles of crappy desert in between.

    There's some group that's been trying for years to build a Las Vegas to Anaheim maglev.

    juice for jesus on
  • edited October 2008
    This content has been removed.

  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    mcdermott wrote: »
    You know, I was thinking about it and I have a question for all you dudes.

    Constitutional amendments by simple majority on a ballot initiative...bad idea, or worst idea?

    I guess I just didn't realize that all Prop 8 needed (and all Constitutional amendments in most states need) to pass was a simple 50%+1 vote. That's fucking insane. You'd think they'd at least require some kind of comfortable supermajority, like 55% or 60%.

    Terrible terrible idea. Why have a Republic if you're going to do this? It probably doesn't have to be as hard as it is in Mass but simple majority is ass backward. It takes successive joint legislative sessions (petitioner based ones only need to garner 25% though) AND a ballot initiative here. This is what happened with same sex marriage in MA and the controversy died away.
    Massachusetts State Rep. Paul Loscocco, a Republican, was one of several dozen lawmakers who changed their minds on the vote, deciding to vote against a ban. The change, he says, is reflective of society at large.

    "I can't tell you how many calls I got from people saying, 'I called you before and now my grandson is gay -- now they're a couple -- now I've changed my mind and I want you to vote the other way,' " says Loscocco.
    Yes, even a decent number of Republicans in Massachusetts largely don't want to outlaw gay marriage anymore. The joint session the second time did not pass (45 for, 151 against) which means it would be at least 2012 before a ballot initiative could be voted on.

    PantsB on
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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I like Mass's way of doing it. Look at what it takes to pass an amendment to the US constitution. Yet in CA, it's the same as passing a bond measure.

    juice for jesus on
  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I like Mass's way of doing it. Look at what it takes to pass an amendment to the US constitution. Yet in CA, it's the same as passing a bond measure.

    The CA government is a long shallow money trench in which pimps and thieves run free and good men die like dogs. /thompson

    Do not think on it overmuch or you will go mad.

    Speaker on
  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yes yes yes let's all make fun of California and their silly ballot system. Well, turns out we're not its hugest fans either.
    Initiative reforms get strong backing – Page 21
    As they prepare to vote on a ballot that includes 10 citizen initiatives, just 9 percent of likely voters are very satisfied with the way the initiative process is working in California, while 55 percent are somewhat satisfied with it. Majorities favor proposals to reform the process.

    MrMister on
  • The Raging PlatypusThe Raging Platypus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Man, we just have some boring props here in NJ. Revamping how municipal and regional judges are appointed (actually, this one's pretty interesting for me), and deciding if approval on the issuance of state bonds should be a public vote or a legislative one.

    The Raging Platypus on
    Quid wrote: »
    YOU'RE A GOD DAMN PLATYPUS.
    PSN Name: MusingPlatypus
  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Man, we just have some boring props here in NJ. Revamping how municipal and regional judges are appointed (actually, this one's pretty interesting for me), and deciding if approval on the issuance of state bonds should be a public vote or a legislative one.

    We were several billion samoleons in the hole last I checked, so I guess for once in history they might be averse to spending cash they don't have, but not so much that they're going to try to get out of the hole. We've got some hilariously crooked politicians in this here state.

    Jersey politics are weird this election, though. I'm actually thinking about voting for a Republican for Congress.

    Typhoid Manny on
    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Man, we just have some boring props here in NJ. Revamping how municipal and regional judges are appointed (actually, this one's pretty interesting for me), and deciding if approval on the issuance of state bonds should be a public vote or a legislative one.

    We were several billion samoleons in the hole last I checked, so I guess for once in history they might be averse to spending cash they don't have, but not so much that they're going to try to get out of the hole. We've got some hilariously crooked politicians in this here state.

    Jersey politics are weird this election, though. I'm actually thinking about voting for a Republican for Congress.

    Is the Republican candidate a decent guy who will get shit done?

    I'm still on the fence about Reichert/Burner in WA for this very reason.

    Taramoor on
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    2966627712_e706be1a4d_o.png

    Should be reposted here.

    Jragghen on
  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Man, we just have some boring props here in NJ. Revamping how municipal and regional judges are appointed (actually, this one's pretty interesting for me), and deciding if approval on the issuance of state bonds should be a public vote or a legislative one.

    We were several billion samoleons in the hole last I checked, so I guess for once in history they might be averse to spending cash they don't have, but not so much that they're going to try to get out of the hole. We've got some hilariously crooked politicians in this here state.

    Jersey politics are weird this election, though. I'm actually thinking about voting for a Republican for Congress.

    Is the Republican candidate a decent guy who will get shit done?

    I'm still on the fence about Reichert/Burner in WA for this very reason.


    He's a decent guy (classical conservative type. Wants to sort our shit out fiscally whilst simultaneously not giving a shit who's fucking who), but based on that he's probably not going to get elected, let alone get shit done if he did make it to Congress.

    Typhoid Manny on
    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Can someone who's into MA politics tell me if there's really any chance of Question 1 passing?

    Adrien on
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