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Marvel Noir: Why Didn't They Do This Sooner?

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Posts

  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Cage would be so good. A powerful black guy in the context of 1930s NYC? I'm all over that.

    I'm with you, guy. It's nice to see minority heroes in stories that take place prior to the '70s, like John Henry in New Frontier or the New American in American Way.

    Mostly stories from that era are about white guys fighting in WW II.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Cage would be so good. A powerful black guy in the context of 1930s NYC? I'm all over that.

    oh man

    that would be awesome

    Servo on
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  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Cage would be so good. A powerful black guy in the context of 1930s NYC? I'm all over that.

    I'm with you, guy. It's nice to see minority heroes in stories that take place prior to the '70s, like John Henry in New Frontier or the New American in American Way.

    Mostly stories from that era are about white guys fighting in WW II.

    Yeah, racism is kinda the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. We're finally far enough removed from those times for stuff like Truth: Red White and Black, The American Way, and Adam: Legend of the Blue Marvel to be published without much controversy.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • Toxic ToysToxic Toys Are you really taking my advice? Really?Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Well, the first two Noir books are done this month. I think.

    For me, it has been suck to ok. X-men sucked and I stopped reading it after the 2nd one. Spider-Man was good until Peter became Spider-Man. I'm going to get the last issue to to finish the story. It is a little fucked that the were $3.99 per issue.

    Does any one want to see the rest come out? It was solicited that a Daredevil, Luke Cage, Punisher, and Wolverine Noir books come out. Myself, I think Punisher and Cage could work if the writing was good. I'm not looking forward to the others.

    But I don't know how sales were for the first two, so who knows.

    Toxic Toys on
    3DS code: 2938-6074-2306, Nintendo Network ID: ToxicToys, PSN: zutto
  • StaxeonStaxeon Buffalo, NYRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'd be onboard for Cage, Punisher, hell even an Iron Fist could be written very well into this genre.

    Staxeon on
    Invisible nap is the best nap of all time!
    No man should have that kind of power.
    (Twitter)
  • kfroosterkfrooster Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    X-Men Noir was terrible. I'm disappointed in myself that I have the entire series. Spider-Man Noir is still pretty good though. Thus far, I think I'm not going to go purchase any Noir stories though.

    kfrooster on
  • VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    That's a bummer, it was an interesting concept and quite effective promotion by Marvel leading into it. Ah well!

    Virral on
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  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    They've been okay. I think the Spidey one is definitely better, but only because the X-Men story is way to complicated to be boiled down to just 4 issues. I'd enjoy Spidey more if the art was a bit better. The backup pulp story in X-Men is totally worth it though.

    The remaining books might be good depending on the creators. I'm really hoping Cage Noir will be good.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • stratslingerstratslinger Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    kfrooster wrote: »
    X-Men Noir was terrible. I'm disappointed in myself that I have the entire series. Spider-Man Noir is still pretty good though. Thus far, I think I'm not going to go purchase any Noir stories though.

    I with you on both counts. I finished reading X-Men Noir and realized the only thing about it I found compelling was the pulp sci-fi Nimrod story at the back of each issue. I'm going to re-read them sometime, now that the whole story can be taken in at once, and see if I can make more sense of it. But it never really struck me as an X-Men story, since the X-Men themselves only ever seemed like secondary characters...

    stratslinger on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I think boiling down the whole X-men character cast to "dudes with guns" sort of eliminates a lot of their flavor.

    Scooter on
  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Everyone should be reading Brubaker's Incognito instead. First comic I'm not waiting for trades on, seeing as the back of each comic has a pretty interesting essay regarding Pulp heroes/stories.

    noir_blood on
  • kfroosterkfrooster Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    kfrooster wrote: »
    X-Men Noir was terrible. I'm disappointed in myself that I have the entire series. Spider-Man Noir is still pretty good though. Thus far, I think I'm not going to go purchase any Noir stories though.

    I with you on both counts. I finished reading X-Men Noir and realized the only thing about it I found compelling was the pulp sci-fi Nimrod story at the back of each issue. I'm going to re-read them sometime, now that the whole story can be taken in at once, and see if I can make more sense of it. But it never really struck me as an X-Men story, since the X-Men themselves only ever seemed like secondary characters...

    Phew, I thought I was the only one that liked that weird side story they included. On one hand it was so ridiculous reading how they described Nimrod's ancestry, from his eyes to his physique. But at the same time, I just decided to accept the writing style and had a few laughs along the way as well as the interesting aspects of the Marvel universe that could have been found in the story.

    kfrooster on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    noir_blood wrote: »
    Everyone should be reading Brubaker's Incognito instead. First comic I'm not waiting for trades on, seeing as the back of each comic has a pretty interesting essay regarding Pulp heroes/stories.

    I just hate buying single issues, now. I only buy trades.

    I wish I could pre-order them in a way that announced my support to the publisher (so they'd get "credit" as they go along, instead of suddenly getting it after the run finishes), but I can't find a way to do that.

    mattharvest on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    You won't get the back pages though, and they really are worth the extra $0.50. I learned a hell of a lot about noir from Criminal.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It's not that I object to the price, but rather that I just don't want individual issues...the paper is lower quality, is bound more poorly, and not to put too fine a point on it, but they're individual. I want story arcs bound into a single volume, so I can pull that arc out and read it together. Fables is perfect for this.

    If I could pre-order KickAss, Incognito, etc. in trades so that there sales would be appropriately high, I would.

    mattharvest on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Spider-man: Noir comes out in hardcover format in May at 20 bucks so I'll just wait then.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It's not that I object to the price, but rather that I just don't want individual issues...the paper is lower quality, is bound more poorly, and not to put too fine a point on it, but they're individual. I want story arcs bound into a single volume, so I can pull that arc out and read it together. Fables is perfect for this.

    If I could pre-order KickAss, Incognito, etc. in trades so that there sales would be appropriately high, I would.

    I'm with you there. I really do love trades, especially cause they look better displayed in my apt on shelves rather than longboxes.

    But at the same time, I haven't felt ripped off after finishing an Incognito issue, and I can't say that about a lot of comics nowadays.

    noir_blood on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    noir_blood wrote: »
    It's not that I object to the price, but rather that I just don't want individual issues...the paper is lower quality, is bound more poorly, and not to put too fine a point on it, but they're individual. I want story arcs bound into a single volume, so I can pull that arc out and read it together. Fables is perfect for this.

    If I could pre-order KickAss, Incognito, etc. in trades so that there sales would be appropriately high, I would.

    I'm with you there. I really do love trades, especially cause they look better displayed in my apt on shelves rather than longboxes.

    But at the same time, I haven't felt ripped off after finishing an Incognito issue, and I can't say that about a lot of comics nowadays.

    I don't want to repeat myself, but I should amplify one point: if I were, hypothetically, to buy individual issues and trades also, obviously I'd be over-spending (not to mention having twice the volume of stuff to store...), which means it's an either-or proposition. Basically I'm trading off timeliness along against all the added-value of trades.

    It makes me think of novels. Most (all?) novelists these days write and publish complete novels, as opposed to publishing the stories serially. So, that prompts a question for anyone who might have the answer for me: if, say, Incognito were just published as a trade instead of individual issues (meaning more lead-time before publication), wouldn't the same people still buy it? Or are so many people either splurge-buyers or test-buyers (who will buy an issue, but not a trade, to try it out) that the income would disappear?

    mattharvest on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The economics of comics makes it hard to do trade only books. Between the materials and printing costs and the labor costs, the projected sell through has to be pretty high. For established creators making high profile books, that's not too hard to justify (see The Black Dossier). But on a new property, even by established creators, there's no guarantee that it'll catch on. The serialized nature of comics means that there's less uncertainty in the projected audience.

    Additionally, you'd be hard pressed to find any artist that will commit to drawing 100 to 130 pages (about the size of a six issue arc), a task that would take at least 5 or 6 months full time to complete, without paying them up front. Which is basically what you'd be asking of them with creator owned stuff. With a monthly schedule, the artist can get paid earlier in the process.

    The problem with comparing novels to creator owned graphic novels (or even work for hire GNs) is that usually the publisher will sign a contract with the creator to write 1 or more novels with a guaranteed minimum payment. Creator owned comics are mostly self-financed, and work for hire GNs will not pay out nearly enough for creators to devote all their time for 1 or more years to creating the GN. Basically, the comic industry looks an awful lot like sci-fi publishing did from the 30s until the 60s.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So, that prompts a question for anyone who might have the answer for me: if, say, Incognito were just published as a trade instead of individual issues (meaning more lead-time before publication), wouldn't the same people still buy it? Or are so many people either splurge-buyers or test-buyers (who will buy an issue, but not a trade, to try it out) that the income would disappear?

    Probably. But that seems irrelevant since Incognito, Criminal and pretty much everything Brubaker writes is specifically or highly suggested to be written with the goal of selling floppies.
    Staxeon wrote: »
    I'd be onboard for Cage, Punisher, hell even an Iron Fist could be written very well into this genre.

    Except that there is an Iron Fist for the era, and he is decidedly Pulp. Like OJ with added pulp Pulpy.

    Crimsondude on
  • kfroosterkfrooster Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So the conclusion of Spider-Man: Noir was pretty good. I definitely wouldn't mind a sequel.
    Especially with the ending panel showcasing Doc Ock in a newspaper article.

    kfrooster on
  • descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    If the next run of Noir books are as bad as x-men and spider-man both were, count me out. I was really fired up on the idea, too.

    desc on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hm. I bought and enjoyed the first issue of X-Men Noir, crappy art aside, with the intent of purchasing the TPB later. I'm now a bit hesitant.

    Munch on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Aunt May continues to deserve to die in every universe.

    DarkWarrior on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I hate when the hero spares the villains life only for the villain to die anyway. It robs the hero's decision of all its implications, essentially allowing the hero to eat his cake and have it too.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • stratslingerstratslinger Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I hate when the hero spares the villains life only for the villain to die anyway. It robs the hero's decision of all its implications, essentially allowing the hero to eat his cake and have it too.

    Ya know, there was something that just felt off about that ending, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Robos, you just did!

    Spoilers just in case:
    What exactly is the point of a hero sparing a villain's life, only for the villain to get dropped by some other means. It's even worse when it happens as quickly as it did here. I mean, if Spidey spared Goblin, then three days later something similar happened, that's one thing. But here, Spidey decides to let Goblin face justice, and within _30 freakin' seconds_ of making that call, along comes Kraven to kill Goblin (with NO explanation as to why, unless I missed that in an earlier issue) while Spidey stands there with his thumb up his ass and does nothing!

    Way to go, hero...

    stratslinger on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I finally read the last issue of X-Men Noir. It was a nice twist, but I was really bummed at how so many people got offed. There's definitely room for a sequel in there.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • guruslothgurusloth Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    the X-men Noir was much closer to the inspiring material than the Spider-man one, IMO

    gurusloth on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    What exactly is the point of a hero sparing a villain's life, only for the villain to get dropped by some other means. It's even worse when it happens as quickly as it did here. I mean, if Spidey spared Goblin, then three days later something similar happened, that's one thing. But here, Spidey decides to let Goblin face justice, and within _30 freakin' seconds_ of making that call, along comes Kraven to kill Goblin (with NO explanation as to why, unless I missed that in an earlier issue) while Spidey stands there with his thumb up his ass and does nothing!

    About Kraven and Goblin:
    Kraven was pissed about his brother being dead and blamed Osborn.

    Crimsondude on
  • StaxeonStaxeon Buffalo, NYRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm surprised this thread didn't jump back with upcoming:

    Daredevil Noir #1 Apr 8, 2009
    Wolverine Noir #1 Apr 15, 2009

    Staxeon on
    Invisible nap is the best nap of all time!
    No man should have that kind of power.
    (Twitter)
  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Did anyone read Daredevil #1?

    Is Punisher Noir out yet?

    Yeah, I know, I'm going with the easy ones. But theoretically, they should work the best, right?

    Hopefully Wolverine will be pretty cool, as well.

    HadjiQuest on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Punisher's not out. DD is. Didn't pick it up because it's just... Eh. Why bother?

    Crimsondude on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I picked up DD Noir, read it late last night. My take on it:

    Daredevil is already a very noir book. Reading the special brand of Noir did not feel any different to me than reading a normal issue of DD. Honestly, this felt more like a period piece than anything.

    One of the defining aspects of this Noir series so far has been a grittier, grainier art style. But they already have this in DD so the style was nothing new. In fact, DD Noir's art seemed like it was trying to mimic Alex Maleev. This whole thing is all a bit redundant. Sure, I might continue to buy it simply because I love Daredevil and the story wasn't bad, but the whole premise isn't really anything new.

    Lucascraft on
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