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What are some good knives?
Lardalish
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Ok, so I got a knife set when I started the culinary program but it was the schools choice and I have a feeling that it might be on the cheap side just because its what they gave us. Now, I know what the knives are and how to use them, but I don't really know what makes a knife "good." So if you guys know some suggestions, or maybe someplace where I can read up on what makes a good knife, that would be awesome.
The ones Ive got are from here, they're a combination of the legend and the renaissance series.
The ones Ive got are from here, they're a combination of the legend and the renaissance series.
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Shogun Streams Vidya
The ones you have do look a little bleh... This is my opinion but I was just a fry cook/pantry dude, who wasn't very good to begin with, so keep that in mind.
I paid 90 or so bucks at bed bath and beyond for a 3pc starter set of J.A. Henckels that were identical to the knives he had and only god knows how much he paid for them at culinary school. So always be on the lookout.
Wusthofs are awesome but they are pretty expensive(my price range was not quite there. you CAN spend crazy money on knives if you want to but what the fuck), I wouldn't spend that much but then again I was never in it to make a career. You buy good stuff, take care of it and it will take care of you. That goes for anything really
Sharpest knife I have ever used. Just be careful with your technique; if you're, for example, mincing garlic it's very easy to mince the tip of your finger.
http://www.yoshikin.co.jp/w/products/index.html
These knives... I must have dem.
Basically, they look fantastic for all the reasons a 'good' knife is good.
The entire blade is slightly wedge shaped, with the edge leading back neatly to the body of the blade. It looks forged, though it is most likely machined, with the tang being a solid piece and the body then shaped off of that piece.
'Stamped' blades, or cheapo bullshit blades, are punched out of a thin metal plate, are of even thickness throughout the blade and tang. The edge is then ground out of this stamp, and most often a second 'display' edge is ground off of that, providing temporary sharpness. Thise utter crap technique is usually disgused by adding serations, so that peaks on the edge tear a small path for the body of the blade to further separate.
The suckness of a stamped blade is further enhanced by riviting the handle onto the tang, holes punched through the tang being used to support the grip; sometimes there is almost no blade in the handle at all, only a thin strip to hold the plastic grip in place. These knives might be okay if you are Martha Stewarting up your sunday dinner, due to the many colors of plastics and designs, but wont hold up under any kind of use.
The rivet holes or lack of metal in the grip cause weak points that collapse or disintegrate, meaning the knife wont hold up to high pressures or any kind of twisting, the stamping method is used with high shear steel- easier to stamp, but just as easy to snap. The fakey bullshit edge makes sharpening difficult, any serrations make sharpening virtually impossible. The even thickness compounds this issue by making it more difficult for the knife to hold an edge, and because the handle is separate from the tang, nasty gunk tends to collect in the leading space between blade and grip, so good cleaning is a challenge.
So- if you're looking for a good knife, you want the opposite of this. The blade should be wedge shaped, the leading edge smooth and arced (bone knives are different, they are actually handsaws and judged accordingly), the cutting edge should lead cleanly back to the body of the knife, single ground, not double. The tang should be a solid piece, as thick or thicker than blade itself, with the outside shaped in a way to allow the attachment of a grip. The knife should be more or less balanced, a finger on blade touching the grip should allow the knive to hang evenly. (Longer utilitarian knives like cleavers and machetes are balanced differently, so that the downward chop puts the most weight behind the middle of the cutting arc).
Personally, I love the 'gunslinger' grip on kitchen knives, where the handle is slightly arced towards the leading edge; makes it feel like an extension of the fingers or hand. This is more for tip and point work on longer knives, and requires some experience to use successfully- but with good technique, I beleive it to be superior.
Throwing knives, a slightly different class than 'kitchen' as they are the quintessential pointwork tools, can be thrown more solidly and effectively when the knife as a whole is slightly arced- there is a slight spin applied during the throw, and the arc allows more weight to follow along the penetrating point on distant targets. Again, solid tangs and proper grips (usually nothing but wound leather or tape) will ensure they stand up to the considerable abuse received in use.
This man speaks the truth. My set of knives came with a book that taught me a lot about how to use a knife properly including which knife does what, how to properly hold each knife, and how to properly take the burr off of a blade. I quickly discovered why I had basically destroyed the last set of knives I had.
Shogun Streams Vidya
For serrated knives and anything not used on a cutting board, you are fine with stamped. These would be things like bread and boning/filleting knives. There is no reason to waste money on a forged blade with a serrated edge. Boning knives need to be very flexible, so a stamped blade will help you out here and not just save you money.
Paring knives kind of fall between the two categories. I have a pair of forged ones and a set of super cheap stamped ones. The cheap ones are nice for everyday use and non food prep stuff like opening packages or whatever. They were about $5 for a set of three, so I don't care what happens to them.
As far as brands go, I really like Wusthof. Most of my knives are from them and I also have a couple from Kai/Kershaw. They have their line of damascus look blades like what alton brown uses, but they have another line called the Shun Pro. I have this one and really love it. Very comfortable and easily outperforms anything else I've ever used.
Excellent knives. Getting to be harder to find in stores though because they're not as trendy as they were a few years ago. Still excellent though.
I buy stuff like Henckels and then sharpen or replace them as needed. If your going to do some serious cooking those global knives look pretty hawt although I've never used one before. Be sure to get a nice cutting board or two anyways, you can easily dull even the titanium stay-sharp-forever knives easily by cutting on ceramics/metals.
Shogun, what book did you get? Maybe I can find it without the knives.
Judging by what has been said about forged and stamped, it sounds like my chef's knife and the paring knife are forged, and the carving, boning, and serrated knives are stamped. So I guess they did that much for me.
I do have a crappy little cutting board for home use, its a flimsy plastic thing, but its better than cutting on metal. At school we have nice cutting boards for us to use so no problem there.
Those Global knives look nice but that handle looks weird. I guess I'd have to find them in a store and hold it before I knew if I liked it.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
And it's Alton Brown. You gotta love Alton Brown.
Shun is created by Kershaw. I have two Kershaw regular old pocket knives and they're the best I've used so far.
And if you're looking for even more advice, he did an entire episode of Good Eats devoted to picking and using good knives properly, titled "American Slicer".
Shogun Streams Vidya
Yeah this is something I need to do, it just so happened that my desire to get something new sparked up right when my quarter ended. So I figured I would ask you guys until classes start back up.
Shogun: Thanks! Ill probly try to pick that up.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
Except this knife. I hate this spreader with a fiery passion. I haven't used it in 3 years.
My mom uses these as well, and ever since I move out to an apartment during school, she lends me one. I plan on stealing it when I permanently move out.
I honestly love this knife. I share the apartment with three other dudes, and I'm ok with them using anything that's mine, but I won't let them anywhere near my knife.
As for sharpening, my grandfather did a really fine job of sharpening knives, but now he's very old and lives far away, so my mom goes to the local butcher and asks them if they can sharpen it for her twice a year. They always have no problem doing it because it only takes about 10 minutes, and she always tips them afterwards. As for honing, the Good Eats episode goes into detail about that, and it's something I do every time I pick up the knife to do some cutting.
This is the first half of the episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9Qzz8R_J1c
This is the second half of the episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT2EHRqcO2U&feature=related
[Edit] I just got done watching these episodes, and it has nothing to do with knife care, just a little at the end. It just teaches you how to properly cut food. I'll look for the correct episodes. Watch them though! They're fun and informative.
Also, I think Good Eats is bad for my social life. There's so much I learn in there, so when my friends are talking about cooking, and I hear something different in Good Eats, I have to butt in and be all "Well, Alton Brown says blah blah blah blah blah."
[Edit] Whoa all I did was give the link and it shoves it into the web browser without actually having to go to the link. That is awesome. I always thought it involved some coding or whatnot.
My family loves that one, despite my mom learning how sharp it is the hard way.... multiple times. They made that thing much sharper than most bread knives really have to be.
They really are great. I'm not a chef or anything, but I do love to cook and this is the knife I use for basically everything.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Global-GS-3-13cm-Cooks-Knife/dp/B00005OL3S
Love it.
On recommendation from Cooks Illustrated I went with a Forschner with a fibrox (better-than-wood) handle by Victorinox. Buy it from from amazon or your local restaurant supply place.
http://www.amazon.com/R-H-Forschner-Victorinox-8-Inch-Fibrox/dp/B000638D32
I've never found a cheap knife that can hold an edge as well as a forged one, but maybe that is just my luck. I don't mind stamped cutlery for things like bread or boning knives, but for a chef's knife or santoku that gets used every day I'll invest more money in something that performs much better. You can spend around $130 on a 8" Shun Classic and be set for years to come.
I while I was googling I see a lot of this Santoku knife around, is it basically a chef's knife? They look similar but I figure it must be at least kinda different, I just don't know how.
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
Santoku blades have a nearly straight cutting edge, while the spine curves down toward the tip instead of the edge curving up like a chef's knife. Often you'll find cullens ground into the blade of santokus to minimize friction. I really like the straighter edge for chopping and dicing vegetables, while I use a chef's knife for cutting up meat. Some people prefer it the other way around - it's really just nice to have both options.
This is what I have now (at least it looks pretty much identical from the picture)
From what you guys have said I think its stamped and its got those little grooves (which KalTorak called cullens). So should this one stay stamped?
Jordan of Elienor, Human Shaman
This is the best bread knife I've ever used. It's a Cutco slicer and has a really great edge. However, you could probably go with a stamped blade for a bread-knife if that's all you're going to use it for and you take good care of it. I have had a cruddy Henckels bread knife for about a year and it still works pretty well. It doesn't do great cutting really thin slices but it works.