Yeah, I'd say that's an improvement -- a little more "sticky" or cohesive. Adhesive? Anyway, now that the bass has more "bass," I'd suggest putting it a little lower in the mix, since it's not a bass-driven track.
I think the bass is okay where it is, at least in the earbuds I'm listening to it on.
Vocals could still stand to come down very tiny bit. But at this point, I feel like I'm nitpicking.
I think the bass is okay where it is, at least in the earbuds I'm listening to it on.
Vocals could still stand to come down very tiny bit. But at this point, I feel like I'm nitpicking.
No, I agree about the vocals.
@ Musiqua - If you have a spacial positioner plug-in, like the Waves Stereo Positioner, it could be as easy a fix as just fiddling with where the vocals are in the stereo field. At the moment, when I listen with my studio headphones, the vocals are positioned in my forehead, when I think they'd feel a lot better in front of my nose and back an inch.
If you lack a positioner, I'd say ease back on the compression, drop the ratio a little and lower the gain correction a couple db, or as much as you can comfortably do without losing the vocal in the mix. Reverb would also help a lot with positioning, but I personally like how crisp most everything sounds and would be hesitant to really add more reverb to any of the instruments.
Thanks guys, it has been really helpful. I've done some adjustments, with this result. I've tinkered with the vocal compression, mostly as metaghost suggested, but using automation to slightly (.7db or so) raise the gain during the chorus. Bass lowered about a db, and the electric guitars about 2 db.
I'm pretty happy with how it sounds right now, but I'll test it on different speakers and setup tomorrow before I'm calling it done.
I was just asked to audition for a band that, when I briefly heard their demo CD a few months ago, sounded a whole lot like Killswitch Engage.
I have absolutely no idea how to play that type of music.
I once went for an audition for a band that declined to tell me what vocal style they wanted, and didn't show me demos with their old singer, just instrumentals. And somehow on this information they expected me to perform. Needless to say I didn't end up in that band.
It's different if they want you to bring your own style it's one thing, but if they wanted you to sound a specific style, then that's lame.
Yeah, honestly since they were already an established band I would have expected to be given some direction. Unfortunately I got none and just ended up frustrated, since I can actually do most vocal styles when I know my target.
I should start my own band practicing again. Lately all I've had time for is work and the occasional recording. Playing live keeps you on your toes though. I do have a new "hit single" (as I jokingly refer to these things) to record though... whenever the heck that happens.
Musiqua, I haven't actually listened to your track yet, but you mentioned headphones and I was just curious what you were using, since you said you were having trouble.
I put together a cigar box guitar last weekend. A really fun project that I recommend everyone to try at least once. Hardest part for me was finding an actual cigar box, the rest went just fine. Haven't tried it out with an amp yet, but I'm pretty confident my improvised pickup should work. Will post some kind of track if everything works out. Tomorrow I'll start soldering my Weird sound generator. Hopefully I'll get it done in a day.
Musiqua, I haven't actually listened to your track yet, but you mentioned headphones and I was just curious what you were using, since you said you were having trouble.
I use a pair of Beyer Dynamic DT250. Great headphones, but the main issue with them when mixing is that they're closed, so they're not as natural sounding as a good pair of open headphones. Open headphones are on the to buy list, but I needed something that wouldn't leak too much when recording.
I also have a pair of dB speakers (L160), but they used to be my keyboard speakers, so I've never been sure just how suitable and natural they are for mixing use.
I also have a more portable headphone pair in the Sennheiser PX200. Those I recommend to everybody that wants a new pair of headphones for their iPods. They're mostly used as a sanity check when I mix.
Musiqua, sounds better.
I could say vocals are still a tad to front in the mix, but I get told I mix vocals too low all the time so I'm hesitant to recommend you actually do anything to them.
As an aside, I always thought it odd that I'm told I mix vocals too low since they're usually mine.
I used to mix them too low in my older mixes too, so I know the feeling. But since the lyrics are (IMO) very important to this song, I really don't want to do that mistake with this mix. So I'm erring on the side of caution.
I think the reason it's so easy for us singers to mix ourselves too low is that we already know the lyrics, so we parse out the words anyway and feel the levels are fine, while others go 'what the hell are they singing?'. That's my theory, at least.
I used to mix them too low in my older mixes too, so I know the feeling. But since the lyrics are (IMO) very important to this song, I really don't want to do that mistake with this mix. So I'm erring on the side of caution.
I think the reason it's so easy for us singers to mix ourselves too low is that we already know the lyrics, so we parse out the words anyway and feel the levels are fine, while others go 'what the hell are they singing?'. That's my theory, at least.
I can probably agree to your theory there. I know I find drumming and bass mistakes easier than I find guitar and vocal mistakes. Which is why we mix as a band, take home that mix, listen to it over and over, make notes, and then come back and make the changes, repeat that whole process until we either think it's close enough to perfect, or we're tired of doing it and just want to release it already.
Gentle people, I have returned for three weeks, after my month and a half stint in the Basque Country. More info and stories soon, but I'll leave you with some pictures
I know the beginning is a little off, we just got to the point of not caring by the time we where done with it all. We might end up going back and fixing it later. How's she sound?
Made with a large amount of Fruity Loops and a dash of Audacity.
The drums are way too low in the mix, and they sound very artificial. Overall the recordings are very dry and muddy. Eqs and reverbs are your friend! The transition into the harder part was pretty jarring for me. That needs a drum fill, or something. Right now it feels like two completely different songs.
I suggest recording the intro with two guitars instead of trying to play both the chords and the lead-up at the same time. And then you can pan the guitars to opposite sides, add reverb to the chords, and fade in the lead-up guitar, or whatever you might fancy.
Performance-wise, I like the play between the bass and the distorted guitar at the end. It sounds a bit like an old 8-bit NES tune adapted to a rock band.
We re-did that intro so many times before finally sticking with that one. And as we were rendering it and listening to it, we came to the conclusion that it sucked, but we were done for the day. Waayy to much time spent on that minute 8.
The drums probably sound artificial because they are just stock Fruity Loops drums. I'm working on saving up some cash to get a new kit and some drum mics, so I can hopefully fix that issue. I get what you mean about the jarring change, though. We actually had it pretty decently timed, but ended up swapping something out and lost the timing as good as we had it. We were pretty over trying to work on it at that point and said screw it.
Planning on touching it up later though, so we'll hopefully get a better sound out of the whole thing.
You can have good sounding drums without spending vast amounts of money on a drum kit and mics (unless you actually want to buy a good kit). EZDrummer and Superior Drummer from http://www.toontrack.com/ are easy enough to use and to get good sounds from. I used a SD preset on My Dear, for example. MIDI all the way, baby.
If you're not doing electronic dance music, you (IMO) should always randomize the velocity and timing of the drum notes slightly, unless you're going for the drum machine sound. That way it will sound more human, even if it really isn't.
Yeah, I'd love to have a kit myself, but living in an apartment where the walls are paper thin makes that pretty impossible at the moment. And I still suck at playing drums, so I'd have to use MIDI in my "real" productions, anyway. Might get a MIDI set just for fun later down the road, though.
Yeah, I'd love to have a kit myself, but living in an apartment where the walls are paper thin makes that pretty impossible at the moment. And I still suck at playing drums, so I'd have to use MIDI in my "real" productions, anyway. Might get a MIDI set just for fun later down the road, though.
Spend a thousand bucks and invest in a Roland V-Drums T-3KW kit. It parts are good enough that you could spend another grand-ish (or less if you got used) later and upgrade the module and it would be able to take advantage of the new features. It's the only kit I've seen in that price range (and even compared to some more expensive kits) that allows you enough flexibility that it feels (and sounds) basically like playing acoustic drums. Also, mesh snare = rolls.
Anyway, you said you lived in an apartment so I figured it would be the only way you'd ever get to practice, let alone record. Using ANY kind of kit changes to feel of a song.
Yeah, I'd love to have a kit myself, but living in an apartment where the walls are paper thin makes that pretty impossible at the moment. And I still suck at playing drums, so I'd have to use MIDI in my "real" productions, anyway. Might get a MIDI set just for fun later down the road, though.
Spend a thousand bucks and invest in a Roland V-Drums T-3KW kit. It parts are good enough that you could spend another grand-ish (or less if you got used) later and upgrade the module and it would be able to take advantage of the new features. It's the only kit I've seen in that price range (and even compared to some more expensive kits) that allows you enough flexibility that it feels (and sounds) basically like playing acoustic drums. Also, mesh snare = rolls.
Anyway, you said you lived in an apartment so I figured it would be the only way you'd ever get to practice, let alone record. Using ANY kind of kit changes to feel of a song.
Seconding this. I picked up a TD-9 kit, which uses those same triggers, about a year ago and it's really nice to have a kit that I can play in my apartment.
Yeah, I'd love to have a kit myself, but living in an apartment where the walls are paper thin makes that pretty impossible at the moment. And I still suck at playing drums, so I'd have to use MIDI in my "real" productions, anyway. Might get a MIDI set just for fun later down the road, though.
Spend a thousand bucks and invest in a Roland V-Drums T-3KW kit. It parts are good enough that you could spend another grand-ish (or less if you got used) later and upgrade the module and it would be able to take advantage of the new features. It's the only kit I've seen in that price range (and even compared to some more expensive kits) that allows you enough flexibility that it feels (and sounds) basically like playing acoustic drums. Also, mesh snare = rolls.
Anyway, you said you lived in an apartment so I figured it would be the only way you'd ever get to practice, let alone record. Using ANY kind of kit changes to feel of a song.
Seconding this. I picked up a TD-9 kit, which uses those same triggers, about a year ago and it's really nice to have a kit that I can play in my apartment.
Yeah, I'd get something like that in the future, but right now I don't have enough time practicing/writing/recording as it is, so getting a kit and learning the drums will have to wait until I don't work as much. In the meantime, the Rock Band drums will have to do for my drumming urges.
Besides, these are home demos. After I have enough new good songs, I'll probably go into a studio to record them again, and then I'll get my drummer friend to do the drum parts.
I finally got my acoustic guitar back from repair after half a year, and so I was screwing around for a while and came up with this song. The recording is surprisingly good for using a USB mic I got with American Idol Wii (don't ask).
Made a new mix of the song I posted before. I messed around a ton with panning everything seperately, added reverb to a few parts, as per advice on this thread, fixed the timing in the beginning, and re-EQ'd the whole thing.
Anyone have an experience with a Dan Electro U2 reissue?
Not the last batch of reissues, but the ones with the stacked pots, vinyl binding, and the logo silk screened onto the pick guard.
I might can pick one up SUPER CHEAP. It's beat to hell and back, but the guy says it plays perfectly. No holes or anything like that.
And if anyone has any opinions on a Brian May Red Special, I'd appreciate them.
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NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
My this thread has been quiet lately. I'm not sure if I'll get any advice, but I've been toying around with the idea of getting a looping pedal to make live performances easier for me (i.e. I don't need a band since that seems to be impossible to come by where I am)
I want something that's able to make different length loops and have some loop repeatedly while others loop say, every 4 measures or something...
Does that kind of thing even exist?
Also, since I don't think I've ever done it before, here's the guitars I'm currently playing.
spoiler for 1 HUGE picture and 2 other normal ones
My this thread has been quiet lately. I'm not sure if I'll get any advice, but I've been toying around with the idea of getting a looping pedal to make live performances easier for me (i.e. I don't need a band since that seems to be impossible to come by where I am)
I want something that's able to make different length loops and have some loop repeatedly while others loop say, every 4 measures or something...
Does that kind of thing even exist?
Yes. I've seen them used. Not really sure what to recommend though since I'm not personally familiar with them. Unless someone here has some recomendations, just go to a store and play with some if you can. Just look for things like "loop station" in your searches. That should return quite a few products to look over.
Or you could just pre-record certain things and use a laptop maybe? I guess that would depend on what you're trying to do in the live situations.
Yes. I've seen them used. Not really sure what to recommend though since I'm not personally familiar with them. Unless someone here has some recomendations, just go to a store and play with some if you can. Just look for things like "loop station" in your searches. That should return quite a few products to look over.
Or you could just pre-record certain things and use a laptop maybe? I guess that would depend on what you're trying to do in the live situations.
I guess going out and messing around on one would be my best option- I've heard their complicated and the pamphlet is more or less a necessity, but I haven't gotten anywhere by asking around yet.
The loops would be a problem for 2 reasons. The one is that I tend to change songs up (not quite at will, but a mood will strike and I'll take the song a different place) and the other is that, if I do start playing live, I want as much of it to be live as possible.
It's a tall order i guess, but hopefully I can get something worked out.
Yes. I've seen them used. Not really sure what to recommend though since I'm not personally familiar with them. Unless someone here has some recomendations, just go to a store and play with some if you can. Just look for things like "loop station" in your searches. That should return quite a few products to look over.
Or you could just pre-record certain things and use a laptop maybe? I guess that would depend on what you're trying to do in the live situations.
I guess going out and messing around on one would be my best option- I've heard their complicated and the pamphlet is more or less a necessity, but I haven't gotten anywhere by asking around yet.
The loops would be a problem for 2 reasons. The one is that I tend to change songs up (not quite at will, but a mood will strike and I'll take the song a different place) and the other is that, if I do start playing live, I want as much of it to be live as possible.
It's a tall order i guess, but hopefully I can get something worked out.
There's probably two ways you could go about it, getting some sort of loop station as you've been looking to do (but sounds like a ton of work live to me), or going ahead and getting a full featured sequencer. I've seen a few bands going that route lately, probably most obvious of late is Animal Collective, who practically run their whole show off of sequencers, and I know for awhile Hot Chip's percussion section was just one guy on a sequencer too. Probably could accomplish the same type of effect with a laptop and a good audio program as well, but it does kind of kill off the "live" element of it.
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NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
Though, i don't really know if what he's doing is as complex as I one day would like it to be, it still sounds fantastic. I'm wondering if he might just have two cheaper-ish looping pedals...
Also, i'm primarily a guitarist (saxophonist on the side), I wouldn't really want to throw that away just to be able to do complex things live
Jerry Garcia type jazzy stuff. I've been trying to learn Help on the Way, and I'd like to learn some similar scales.
As someone taking jazz lessons on double bass, I'm a bit confused. You know all of the major scales in 2 octaves already, right? And practice them regularly?
Jerry Garcia type jazzy stuff. I've been trying to learn Help on the Way, and I'd like to learn some similar scales.
As someone taking jazz lessons on double bass, I'm a bit confused. You know all of the major scales in 2 octaves already, right? And practice them regularly?
Once it comes to jazz, its more about the notes than the scales in my opinon... I played 1st tenor in my schools jazz band for 2 years and what I played was mostly based around the notes in the particular chord being played, not the scale/s they belonged in.
Jerry Garcia type jazzy stuff. I've been trying to learn Help on the Way, and I'd like to learn some similar scales.
As someone taking jazz lessons on double bass, I'm a bit confused. You know all of the major scales in 2 octaves already, right? And practice them regularly?
Once it comes to jazz, its more about the notes than the scales in my opinon... I played 1st tenor in my schools jazz band for 2 years and what I played was mostly based around the notes in the particular chord being played, not the scale/s they belonged in.
Um
well
Yeah, I don't have another way of saying it, that's completely and utterly wrong and you should've studied your scales more.
Posts
Vocals could still stand to come down very tiny bit. But at this point, I feel like I'm nitpicking.
PSN : Bolthorn
No, I agree about the vocals.
@ Musiqua - If you have a spacial positioner plug-in, like the Waves Stereo Positioner, it could be as easy a fix as just fiddling with where the vocals are in the stereo field. At the moment, when I listen with my studio headphones, the vocals are positioned in my forehead, when I think they'd feel a lot better in front of my nose and back an inch.
If you lack a positioner, I'd say ease back on the compression, drop the ratio a little and lower the gain correction a couple db, or as much as you can comfortably do without losing the vocal in the mix. Reverb would also help a lot with positioning, but I personally like how crisp most everything sounds and would be hesitant to really add more reverb to any of the instruments.
I'm pretty happy with how it sounds right now, but I'll test it on different speakers and setup tomorrow before I'm calling it done.
Yeah, honestly since they were already an established band I would have expected to be given some direction. Unfortunately I got none and just ended up frustrated, since I can actually do most vocal styles when I know my target.
I should start my own band practicing again. Lately all I've had time for is work and the occasional recording. Playing live keeps you on your toes though. I do have a new "hit single" (as I jokingly refer to these things) to record though... whenever the heck that happens.
Musiqua, I haven't actually listened to your track yet, but you mentioned headphones and I was just curious what you were using, since you said you were having trouble.
I use a pair of Beyer Dynamic DT250. Great headphones, but the main issue with them when mixing is that they're closed, so they're not as natural sounding as a good pair of open headphones. Open headphones are on the to buy list, but I needed something that wouldn't leak too much when recording.
I also have a pair of dB speakers (L160), but they used to be my keyboard speakers, so I've never been sure just how suitable and natural they are for mixing use.
I also have a more portable headphone pair in the Sennheiser PX200. Those I recommend to everybody that wants a new pair of headphones for their iPods. They're mostly used as a sanity check when I mix.
I could say vocals are still a tad to front in the mix, but I get told I mix vocals too low all the time so I'm hesitant to recommend you actually do anything to them.
As an aside, I always thought it odd that I'm told I mix vocals too low since they're usually mine.
PSN : Bolthorn
I think the reason it's so easy for us singers to mix ourselves too low is that we already know the lyrics, so we parse out the words anyway and feel the levels are fine, while others go 'what the hell are they singing?'. That's my theory, at least.
I can probably agree to your theory there. I know I find drumming and bass mistakes easier than I find guitar and vocal mistakes. Which is why we mix as a band, take home that mix, listen to it over and over, make notes, and then come back and make the changes, repeat that whole process until we either think it's close enough to perfect, or we're tired of doing it and just want to release it already.
PSN : Bolthorn
Also our CD is now for sale at http://www.lauralost.co.uk if anyone wants a copy
However, I am here to redeem myself with some better sounding recording.
Woohoo!
I know the beginning is a little off, we just got to the point of not caring by the time we where done with it all. We might end up going back and fixing it later. How's she sound?
Made with a large amount of Fruity Loops and a dash of Audacity.
The drums are way too low in the mix, and they sound very artificial. Overall the recordings are very dry and muddy. Eqs and reverbs are your friend! The transition into the harder part was pretty jarring for me. That needs a drum fill, or something. Right now it feels like two completely different songs.
I suggest recording the intro with two guitars instead of trying to play both the chords and the lead-up at the same time. And then you can pan the guitars to opposite sides, add reverb to the chords, and fade in the lead-up guitar, or whatever you might fancy.
Performance-wise, I like the play between the bass and the distorted guitar at the end. It sounds a bit like an old 8-bit NES tune adapted to a rock band.
We re-did that intro so many times before finally sticking with that one. And as we were rendering it and listening to it, we came to the conclusion that it sucked, but we were done for the day. Waayy to much time spent on that minute 8.
The drums probably sound artificial because they are just stock Fruity Loops drums. I'm working on saving up some cash to get a new kit and some drum mics, so I can hopefully fix that issue. I get what you mean about the jarring change, though. We actually had it pretty decently timed, but ended up swapping something out and lost the timing as good as we had it. We were pretty over trying to work on it at that point and said screw it.
Planning on touching it up later though, so we'll hopefully get a better sound out of the whole thing.
If you're not doing electronic dance music, you (IMO) should always randomize the velocity and timing of the drum notes slightly, unless you're going for the drum machine sound. That way it will sound more human, even if it really isn't.
I'll look into that site, though. Thanks again.
Spend a thousand bucks and invest in a Roland V-Drums T-3KW kit. It parts are good enough that you could spend another grand-ish (or less if you got used) later and upgrade the module and it would be able to take advantage of the new features. It's the only kit I've seen in that price range (and even compared to some more expensive kits) that allows you enough flexibility that it feels (and sounds) basically like playing acoustic drums. Also, mesh snare = rolls.
Anyway, you said you lived in an apartment so I figured it would be the only way you'd ever get to practice, let alone record. Using ANY kind of kit changes to feel of a song.
Yeah, I'd get something like that in the future, but right now I don't have enough time practicing/writing/recording as it is, so getting a kit and learning the drums will have to wait until I don't work as much. In the meantime, the Rock Band drums will have to do for my drumming urges.
Besides, these are home demos. After I have enough new good songs, I'll probably go into a studio to record them again, and then I'll get my drummer friend to do the drum parts.
http://www.myspace.com/josephelliottmusic
What do you think?
http://www.ueak.net/Crash/Music/QuarrenHillExperiment.mp3
Any better?
http://www.mediafire.com/?jmwzzdzvlzk
(consider it a "sketch")
Not the last batch of reissues, but the ones with the stacked pots, vinyl binding, and the logo silk screened onto the pick guard.
I might can pick one up SUPER CHEAP. It's beat to hell and back, but the guy says it plays perfectly. No holes or anything like that.
And if anyone has any opinions on a Brian May Red Special, I'd appreciate them.
I want something that's able to make different length loops and have some loop repeatedly while others loop say, every 4 measures or something...
Does that kind of thing even exist?
Also, since I don't think I've ever done it before, here's the guitars I'm currently playing.
spoiler for 1 HUGE picture and 2 other normal ones
the schecter ultra III
The Schecter 006
And this plain but awesome bad boy:
Martin DX 1
http://www.myspace.com/thebenjamindamned
i don't know if this is a thing for you, but danelectro donated heavily to the pro-prop 8 folks during the election last year
hitting hot metal with hammers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETPEtqAE1-A
But those lipstick pickups and plyboard wood have kept me from ever picking one up.
Yes. I've seen them used. Not really sure what to recommend though since I'm not personally familiar with them. Unless someone here has some recomendations, just go to a store and play with some if you can. Just look for things like "loop station" in your searches. That should return quite a few products to look over.
Or you could just pre-record certain things and use a laptop maybe? I guess that would depend on what you're trying to do in the live situations.
PSN : Bolthorn
Jerry Garcia type jazzy stuff. I've been trying to learn Help on the Way, and I'd like to learn some similar scales.
I guess going out and messing around on one would be my best option- I've heard their complicated and the pamphlet is more or less a necessity, but I haven't gotten anywhere by asking around yet.
The loops would be a problem for 2 reasons. The one is that I tend to change songs up (not quite at will, but a mood will strike and I'll take the song a different place) and the other is that, if I do start playing live, I want as much of it to be live as possible.
It's a tall order i guess, but hopefully I can get something worked out.
There's probably two ways you could go about it, getting some sort of loop station as you've been looking to do (but sounds like a ton of work live to me), or going ahead and getting a full featured sequencer. I've seen a few bands going that route lately, probably most obvious of late is Animal Collective, who practically run their whole show off of sequencers, and I know for awhile Hot Chip's percussion section was just one guy on a sequencer too. Probably could accomplish the same type of effect with a laptop and a good audio program as well, but it does kind of kill off the "live" element of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFmfncE-jD0
Though, i don't really know if what he's doing is as complex as I one day would like it to be, it still sounds fantastic. I'm wondering if he might just have two cheaper-ish looping pedals...
Also, i'm primarily a guitarist (saxophonist on the side), I wouldn't really want to throw that away just to be able to do complex things live
True story.
Oh man, that sucks.
What guitar was it?
As someone taking jazz lessons on double bass, I'm a bit confused. You know all of the major scales in 2 octaves already, right? And practice them regularly?
Once it comes to jazz, its more about the notes than the scales in my opinon... I played 1st tenor in my schools jazz band for 2 years and what I played was mostly based around the notes in the particular chord being played, not the scale/s they belonged in.
Um
well
Yeah, I don't have another way of saying it, that's completely and utterly wrong and you should've studied your scales more.
The chord type influences the scales to use.