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Nerdcore Hip-hop: the debate
justininho
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Okay, just for those who only want to discuss the merits (or lack) of nerdcore hip-hop and other nerd-orientated musical genres - this thread is for you.
I started up a thread wanting people to suggest bands or websites but a few have decided to ignore or forget the original post and are offering opinions instead.
This does not help me one iota.
So for those of you who can't tell the difference between an opinion and a suggestion and only want to support or rail against nerd-related music: go crazy.
For myself this is a learning experience. I was never a big hip-hop fan to begin with - I prefer indie rock, blues, alternate country, folk, bossanova, bebop, cubop, zappa, radiohead, film soundtracks, new wave, madchester and others I can't define.
However, as I've played games since PC's only had 8 colour displays and the mouse was something dead in the mouth of a cat, when I heard about a guy called Frontalot rapping about Zork I just had to know more. I'm fascinated from an anthropological point of view.
Here are a couple of quotes from my other thread - the one asking for SUGGESTIONS - that I feel just don't belong there:
Okay, so we have issues of race, demographics and criticism of cultural references already which I never asked for so let's go.
And remember: the other thread is for suggestions only.
I started up a thread wanting people to suggest bands or websites but a few have decided to ignore or forget the original post and are offering opinions instead.
This does not help me one iota.
So for those of you who can't tell the difference between an opinion and a suggestion and only want to support or rail against nerd-related music: go crazy.
For myself this is a learning experience. I was never a big hip-hop fan to begin with - I prefer indie rock, blues, alternate country, folk, bossanova, bebop, cubop, zappa, radiohead, film soundtracks, new wave, madchester and others I can't define.
However, as I've played games since PC's only had 8 colour displays and the mouse was something dead in the mouth of a cat, when I heard about a guy called Frontalot rapping about Zork I just had to know more. I'm fascinated from an anthropological point of view.
Here are a couple of quotes from my other thread - the one asking for SUGGESTIONS - that I feel just don't belong there:
the very idea of nerdcore repulses me
This. It's like a bunch of white kids from the suburbs, whose idea of hip hop mostly came from MTV, decided to reference a bunch of nerdy stuff in their raps thinking they're doing something new. Completely oblivious to the fact that hip hop have always had an affinity for oft-kilter references.
Most of them can't really rap anyway.
Okay, so we have issues of race, demographics and criticism of cultural references already which I never asked for so let's go.
And remember: the other thread is for suggestions only.
justininho on
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I like the song at the end of the Penny Arcade game and Livin' At the Corner of Dude and Catastrophe, but I've hated everything else I've heard of Frontalot's.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
now back to you, jeff
I also laugh at the implementation.
I suppose I had a different viewpoint than most.
Which is fine and all, except that when the novelty fades (or if it's never there), these dudes are just as lame as the guys saying fuck every other word and rotating through the top 40. Only, in the latter case the production is usually better and if you buy an album, there might be a good guest spot or something on it.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Wheres my Pogcore, I need more albums about pogs.
When people say 'Nerdcore', it seems like they usually mean rappers who write about 20 year old tech and video games.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
What do you mean?
First off, I won't listen to someone if their production sucks. (Which alot of nerdcore does)
Second some of my favorite hiphop albums are instrumental, IE DJ Shadow, RJD2, Madlib, J Dilla.
Third, I don't care what people write, sing, rap about it. I care about how they do it. It's kind of like watching only pbs specials on architecture just because you're an architect. I'd rather someone tell me a story, if it's about growing up in NYC, somewhere I've yet to visit, I'm still interested, especially if it pleases my ears and they do it creatively.
But just referencing a bunch of atari/nintendo games for the sake of referencing atari nintendo games seems pointless. It's limiting. It's the same reason I hate alot of people who believe they have to do what their culture tells them. "Oh yeah I wear this hotplate glued to my head because all my relatives do" I mean god, there's alot of sports fans out there, but thank god, there isn't a genre dedicated to basketball, and I say that as a huge fan. (Yes I've heard songs about sports, but no one I know makes it a point to make entire albums dedicated to the subject)
Additionally, I think genres like this tend to have lower quality productions due to smaller publishers or self-publishing.
I think the repulsive part about nerdcore is that it's rap but it's not hip-hop. It bears no resemblance to the hip-hop culture which created rap. I rarely buy the "lets call rap I like hip-hop and everything else rap" argument, but I think it holds here. Nerdcore seems like a very clumsy coopting of certain elements of rap--resulting in something that resembles rap, but has no relationship to hip-hop culture. It's assimilating rap into nerd culture rather than the other way around. It's nerds who rap not rappers (people embedded in hip-hop culture) who are nerdy. Which is fine in its own way, but it's not hip hop. I feel like there's a place for nerds in hip-hop, and there are plenty of super nerdy rappers out there, but there's a difference between nerdcore and the kinds of nerdy rap I consider hip hop. It might just be the core part.. maybe nerdcore is just so extremely nerdy it obliterates any connection to the hip hop culture that was its ancestor.
Shiiit...I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: nerdcore is just too damn White. It's a dilution or removal of the Black elements of rap and a replacement with something more palatable to the nerd (read: usually White/Asian) audience. It's just too different from hip-hop created rap in content, form, style and cultural origins. This doesn't mean White/Asian people can't be hip-hop or anything like that, but when you remove every recognizable element of a culture from a piece of music, you can't say the new product reflects the culture anymore. It's like saying you want to make Chinese food but insisting on using fetuccini and proscutto instead of lo mein and bok choy. You still made some tasty food, it's just not Chinese food.... I don't even necessarily think rap has to reflect the "Black experience" to be hip-hop, there's a lot of good rap out there that doesn't, but nerdcore crosses the line for me for some reason... crap, I'm a racist aren't I??
Yeah, and what about The Minibosses, The OneUps, and The Protomen?
Can't begin to say how tired I am of all the Megaman, Castlevania, and Mario covers.
Yes. But I know what you're saying and agree whole heartedly. However your chinese food metaphor is really bad. But nerdcore is like white kids who like videogames but are really fucking scared of Busta Rhymes. But yeah theres tons of rappers who are nerdy, but don't make nerdcore. MF Doom comes to mind, as does Vast Aire of Cannibal Ox and a few members of the Wu-Tang Clan.
You said it perfectly. It's like would you eat shitty food because Mario was on the front of the restaurant? Nevermind don't answer that.
So because Nerdcore isn't black (?) enough it isn't real Rap? It's just music you mean?
I have no problem with it beyond that. I kind of suspect that most nerdcore rappers would be rather bemused at people having a debate about their artistic and cultural merits in any other context.
It's like discussing the underlying political and cultural motivations of Weird Al doing another Britney Spears cover. He's just doing it because 'lol ugly geeky guy is singing brittany!11!'
My favorite rap group ever is Bone Thugs N Harmony. For those of you that have heard of/listen to them, you know that they aren't the same as the Ying Yang Twins or Lil John (who made a career out of yelling yeah, what, and okay). To me, BTNH are true artists in the industry of shitty rap beats and lyrics.
Aside from BTNH, other rap/hip hop artists/groups I listen to would be DMX, 2Pac, Biggie, Run DMC, Outkast, Eminem, and D12, just to name a few.
With that being said, I can safely say that I'm fairly "educated" in the genre of rap/hip hop. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I know what I like. Nerdcore is not to be compared to the maintream rap/hip hop. It's like comparing a Weird Al album to Queen (my favorite band). You can't do it because the focus is entirely different. Sure, they both aim to entertain their listeners through their music, but they appeal to different tastes. I don't feel that the nerdcore genre as a whole takes itself seriously enough to try to compare MC Chris or Frontalot to 2Pac and Biggie. Optimus Rhyme isn't quite the same as Run DMC. So why are there people here saying, "If you wanna buy nerdcore, why not just buy real rap?"
Another thing to note is that a lot of people don't like listening to mainstream music that would play on the radio cause, well, radio sucks. Plain and simple. I hate it. I hate turning on the radio and hearing the shit they play now. Pop music has and always will suck. I remember when I was just starting high school I would listen to bands like Korn, TOOL, Pantera, Limp Bizkit (before they sold out), Godsmack, Disturbed, and Megadeth to name a few and these are bands that are still around and popular. This was the time when you turn on the radio and would hear Backstreet Boys, N Sync, 98 degrees, Brittney Spears, and shit like that. Bands/groups that aren't together with albums that no one listens to anymore because we finally realized it's shit and have moved on to the next abomination.
I assume people that listen to nerdcore are looking for this. Something that they enjoy for what it is.
When I think about what it was when I first started on this, based on Frontalot's "It is pitch dark" was the humour.
To quote the frank Zappa title: Does Humor Belong in Music?
Well? Does it?
Although I do agree that nerdcore rap is probably a more appropriate title
Christian Industrial? You're lying, right? Just thinking about that makes my skin crawl.
Hiphop music might have grown out of other genres, but that doesn't mean you have to like all those other genres to like hip hop music. Heck, hiphop music itself is as much a product of rejecting those genres as evolving from them. For the last 25+ years there's been the whole R&B vs Rap thing. Does KRS have an R&B phobia as well, just because he uses it far less than a Snoop Dogg?
You don't have to like all that stuff to like hip hop music. You don't have to like griots or dub or jazz or heck, disco, either.
If you're into video games I'd rather you rap about that than add to the ever-growing list of studio gangstas talking about some street life they never led. If you know video games, then rap about video games. If you're interested in video games, then spray video games - that's real.
You don't become a "real" rapper just because you got a record deal.