BusterKNegativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered Userregular
edited December 2008
I had to read literary criticism in eaxctly one English class
English 10: Introduction to English
Every other class I was expected to come up with my own ideas
YaYa, you're making an argument that being a well read English major is a bad thing.
Knock it off.
hey read all the critiques you want especially if it'll help your thinking
but using someone else's conclusions to back up your own instead of using the text seems pretty fucking unneccesary, particularly when the point is to analyse the text
YaYa, you're making an argument that being a well read English major is a bad thing.
Knock it off.
hey read all the critiques you want especially if it'll help your thinking
but using someone else's conclusions to back up your own instead of using the text seems pretty fucking unneccesary, particularly when the point is to analyse the text
i need a book recommendation for a 20 year old girl
Honest question: At 20 years old, why would her being a girl have anything to do with what you'd suggest for her to read? I don't know of anything that bit of knowledge would filter out of my queue. Is there something else about her that might be a better metric? Are you looking for a gateway drug out of Sparks territory?
kinda late, but i was looking for something in that broad genre of 'popular literature' that tended more toward the female aesthetic. to say that there's no 'general' difference between male and female aesthetic at any age is being a bit too gender blind.
unless the essay specifically asks for a critique of outside interpretation you can (and probably should) stick to the text for your points
Unless all of your points are completely original and you've never read or heard anything that in any way informed or inspired them, you're using outside sources.
If you don't cite these sources, you either have to defend the information as "common knowledge", or you're plagiarizing.
If you like you can send me this paper and I will show you were you've plagiarized.
You'll get away with it most of the time, but not usually for grad work or any sort of thesis. If you do, there's still always a chance that it'll surface later, and that has ruined careers.
YaYa, you're making an argument that being a well read English major is a bad thing.
Knock it off.
hey read all the critiques you want especially if it'll help your thinking
but using someone else's conclusions to back up your own instead of using the text seems pretty fucking unneccesary, particularly when the point is to analyse the text
do you a) say that the theme of such-and-such is represented by the use of flowers in the text as shown here (quote) here (quote) and here (quote)
or b) say that the theme of such-and-such is represented by the use of flowers because Joe McFuckstick in his McFuckstick literary journal says so (quote)
the question isn't asking you to say what Joe McFuckstick thinks no matter how renowned his literary journal is
it's asking what you think and how you can back it up
seriously I don't see how outside citations can help in any sort of literature analysis, especially because it's all subjective
read some and look at the points they make and see if you agree or can expand upon them, but don't cite them as a point itself
I'll listen to any counter-argument but so far everyone who has disagreed has just called me a dumbass
do you a) say that the theme of such-and-such is represented by the use of flowers in the text as shown here (quote) here (quote) and here (quote)
or b) say that the theme of such-and-such is represented by the use of flowers because Joe McFuckstick in his McFuckstick literary journal says so (quote)
the question isn't asking you to say what Joe McFuckstick thinks no matter how renowned his literary journal is
it's asking what you think and how you can back it up
seriously I don't see how outside citations can help in any sort of literature analysis, especially because it's all subjective
read some and look at the points they make and see if you agree or can expand upon them, but don't cite them as a point itself
I'll listen to any counter-argument but so far everyone who has disagreed has just called me a dumbass
This is using a source. If you do this and don't cite, you are plagiarizing those sources. Even if you don't use quotes, points, conclusion, or any specific material it is plagiarism. Even you don't take any information but use it as part of your research, it has to be cited.
Basically, you're a huuuuge plagiarist, and also a dumbass.
are you saying if you don't know that the thought you have had was previously had by someone else you're plaigarizing
I'm not calling you wrong but that seems a little absurd
Possibly.
If you heard it there, remembered it but forgot the source (or even forgot that there was a source), that is complete plagiarism.
If you've never been exposed to the source, it is not plagiarism, but if it's a common source you will likely be suspected of it.
that's fine then I misunderstood
but I'm saying you generally don't need to seek out outside sources to write an English paper and everyone bar Buster is calling me wrong
as long as I don't steal an idea from a source, unwittingly or no, then you're good, right?
e: okay just read your other post
I concede that point but the truth is I almost never look at outside sources for English papers
if I did I would cite them
YaYa on
0
BusterKNegativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered Userregular
edited December 2008
Perhaps you guys are correct but I can only speak from experience
I was an English major for four years and got a legitimate degree from the University of California
I must have wrote close to hundred essays, many five, ten, even fifteen pages long
And in none of them, absolutely zero did I ever cite sources other than the literary work I was writing about
Not ever, in all that time did any Professor or T.A. ever saying anything like, "You should cite outside sources."
It never happened
are you saying if you don't know that the thought you have had was previously had by someone else you're plaigarizing
I'm not calling you wrong but that seems a little absurd
Possibly.
If you heard it there, remembered it but forgot the source (or even forgot that there was a source), that is complete plagiarism.
If you've never been exposed to the source, it is not plagiarism, but if it's a common source you will likely be suspected of it.
that's fine then I misunderstood
but I'm saying you generally don't need to seek out outside sources to write an English paper and everyone bar Buster is calling me wrong
as long as I don't steal an idea from a source, unwittingly or no, then you're good, right?
No, it doesn't even have to be a complete idea. "Inspiration", "guidance" and any other such words you might use to try to justify using a source in any way without citing should also be cited.
I guarantee you are using unoriginal ideas and information. These should be cited. Even if you have to find a source for something that you already knew, you should cite it.
If it's not original research, it's someone else's research and should be properly cited, even if it doesn't seem like research. "Common knowledge" is the only exception.
Generally, everything you write should be cited at least once- either to your research or to an outside source.
Perhaps you guys are correct but I can only speak from experience
I was an English major for four years and got a legitimate degree from the University of California
I must have wrote close to hundred essays, many five, ten, even fifteen pages long
And in none of them, absolutely zero did I ever cite sources other than the literary work I was writing about
Not ever, in all that time did any Professor or T.A. ever saying anything like, "You should cite outside sources."
It never happened
I guarantee you plagiarized something on most, likely all, of your papers.
It's not like it's something you're ever going to get caught on with any paper short of a thesis, but it's still incorrect for an academic setting.
Perhaps you guys are correct but I can only speak from experience
I was an English major for four years and got a legitimate degree from the University of California
I must have wrote close to hundred essays, many five, ten, even fifteen pages long
And in none of them, absolutely zero did I ever cite sources other than the literary work I was writing about
Not ever, in all that time did any Professor or T.A. ever saying anything like, "You should cite outside sources."
It never happened
I guarantee you plagiarized something on most, likely all, of your papers.
It's not like it's something you're ever going to get caught on with any paper short of a thesis, but it's still incorrect for an academic setting.
So I plagerized all of my papers
And no one ever mentioned it?
Perhaps you guys are correct but I can only speak from experience
I was an English major for four years and got a legitimate degree from the University of California
I must have wrote close to hundred essays, many five, ten, even fifteen pages long
And in none of them, absolutely zero did I ever cite sources other than the literary work I was writing about
Not ever, in all that time did any Professor or T.A. ever saying anything like, "You should cite outside sources."
It never happened
I guarantee you plagiarized something on most, likely all, of your papers.
It's not like it's something you're ever going to get caught on with any paper short of a thesis, but it's still incorrect for an academic setting.
So I plagerized all of my papers
And no one ever mentioned it?
Yes.
The most common kinds of plagiarism are completely innocent ad harmless and most of the time no one really cares or even notices, but it's still plagiarism and in certain environments it can really screw you over.
laughingfuzzball on
0
BusterKNegativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered Userregular
edited December 2008
So I'm looking through my bookshelves trying to fnd the only pieces of Literary Criticism I have on hand
Anne Charter's The Story and Its Writer has several famous essays on literary works from authors who are notable in their own right.
There's Janice H. Harris on "The Rocking Horse Winner", D.H. Lawrence on "The Cask of Amontillado", Vladimr Nabokov on "The Overcoat" and Salman Rushdie on "The Bloody Chamber"
Guess how many citations from outside sources all of these include?
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of essays in here
And some of them do have citations
But even then, even in the ones that are several pages long have at most two or three
And these are all published essays from prominent authors including some professors
Citations are part of your work to show that you have done the reading and where your ideas are coming from, to keep you from repeating work that's already be done, or to build on that. It's not just pointless bookkeeping, it's demonstrating research skills and that you're not a crazy person making stuff up in your head.
Citations are part of your work to show that you have done the reading and where your ideas are coming from, to keep you from repeating work that's already be done, or to build on that. It's not just pointless bookkeeping, it's demonstrating research skills and that you're not a crazy person making stuff up in your head.
that makes sense to me
when I hear "cite outside sources" for some reason I've been taught to think direct quoting
I didn't know you had to cite something that you used simply as inspiration or to start the train of thought
So I'm looking through my bookshelves trying to fnd the only pieces of Literary Criticism I have on hand
Anne Charter's The Story and Its Writer has several famous essays on literary works from authors who are notable in their own right.
There's Janice H. Harris on "The Rocking Horse Winner", D.H. Lawrence on "The Cask of Amontillado", Vladimr Nabokov on "The Overcoat" and Salman Rushdie on "The Bloody Chamber"
Guess how many citations from outside sources all of these include?
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of essays in here
And some of them do have citations
But even then, even in the ones that are several pages long have at most two or three
And these are all published essays from prominent authors including some professors
"Published" does not mean "academic".
In publishing, everything short of copyright infringement is kosher. A publisher doesn't really care about plagiarism because it isn't a crime in and of itself.
Academia has different standards. Copyright infringement isn't really an issue unless it's done in a way that's also plagiarism. It might harm your career as an ethics violation, but it doesn't taint your work itself the way plagiarism does.
Most work of this kind published anywhere except through a college, university, museum, scholarly journal, or similar make a show of following academic guidelines, but they rarely follow them very closely at all because they don' have to.
There's also some extra leeway when he author can call themselves and "expert". When that happens and how much leeway hey get varies based on he field, purpose and scope of the paper, publishing environment, and so on, bu it's generally a person well established and reputably published within a field and never extends to significant or controversial claims. It's not formal and really isn't supposed to happen at all, but it's the way things go.
Posts
unless the essay specifically asks for a critique of outside interpretation you can (and probably should) stick to the text for your points
Knock it off.
English 10: Introduction to English
Every other class I was expected to come up with my own ideas
Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
hey read all the critiques you want especially if it'll help your thinking
but using someone else's conclusions to back up your own instead of using the text seems pretty fucking unneccesary, particularly when the point is to analyse the text
you're sooooo dumb
kinda late, but i was looking for something in that broad genre of 'popular literature' that tended more toward the female aesthetic. to say that there's no 'general' difference between male and female aesthetic at any age is being a bit too gender blind.
Unless all of your points are completely original and you've never read or heard anything that in any way informed or inspired them, you're using outside sources.
If you don't cite these sources, you either have to defend the information as "common knowledge", or you're plagiarizing.
If you like you can send me this paper and I will show you were you've plagiarized.
You'll get away with it most of the time, but not usually for grad work or any sort of thesis. If you do, there's still always a chance that it'll surface later, and that has ruined careers.
That's not what citation mean, at all.
In fact, that would often also be plagiarism.
here's the question:
Analyse the theme of such-and-such from Book X
do you a) say that the theme of such-and-such is represented by the use of flowers in the text as shown here (quote) here (quote) and here (quote)
or b) say that the theme of such-and-such is represented by the use of flowers because Joe McFuckstick in his McFuckstick literary journal says so (quote)
the question isn't asking you to say what Joe McFuckstick thinks no matter how renowned his literary journal is
it's asking what you think and how you can back it up
seriously I don't see how outside citations can help in any sort of literature analysis, especially because it's all subjective
read some and look at the points they make and see if you agree or can expand upon them, but don't cite them as a point itself
I'll listen to any counter-argument but so far everyone who has disagreed has just called me a dumbass
are you saying if you don't know that the thought you have had was previously had by someone else you're plaigarizing
I'm not calling you wrong but that seems a little absurd
Possibly.
If you heard it there, remembered it but forgot the source (or even forgot that there was a source), that is complete plagiarism.
If you've never been exposed to the source, it is not plagiarism, but if it's a common source you will likely be suspected of it.
This is using a source. If you do this and don't cite, you are plagiarizing those sources. Even if you don't use quotes, points, conclusion, or any specific material it is plagiarism. Even you don't take any information but use it as part of your research, it has to be cited.
Basically, you're a huuuuge plagiarist, and also a dumbass.
that's fine then I misunderstood
but I'm saying you generally don't need to seek out outside sources to write an English paper and everyone bar Buster is calling me wrong
as long as I don't steal an idea from a source, unwittingly or no, then you're good, right?
e: okay just read your other post
I concede that point but the truth is I almost never look at outside sources for English papers
if I did I would cite them
I was an English major for four years and got a legitimate degree from the University of California
I must have wrote close to hundred essays, many five, ten, even fifteen pages long
And in none of them, absolutely zero did I ever cite sources other than the literary work I was writing about
Not ever, in all that time did any Professor or T.A. ever saying anything like, "You should cite outside sources."
It never happened
Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
No
Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
No, it doesn't even have to be a complete idea. "Inspiration", "guidance" and any other such words you might use to try to justify using a source in any way without citing should also be cited.
I guarantee you are using unoriginal ideas and information. These should be cited. Even if you have to find a source for something that you already knew, you should cite it.
If it's not original research, it's someone else's research and should be properly cited, even if it doesn't seem like research. "Common knowledge" is the only exception.
Generally, everything you write should be cited at least once- either to your research or to an outside source.
Naw
Santa Barbara
Still I've never heard anyone suggest what Fuzzy is suggesting
Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
I guarantee you plagiarized something on most, likely all, of your papers.
It's not like it's something you're ever going to get caught on with any paper short of a thesis, but it's still incorrect for an academic setting.
it was a joke about how merced doesn't have a lot of street cred
ha ha
So I plagerized all of my papers
And no one ever mentioned it?
Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
I guess it's not the real academia
Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
Yes.
The most common kinds of plagiarism are completely innocent ad harmless and most of the time no one really cares or even notices, but it's still plagiarism and in certain environments it can really screw you over.
Anne Charter's The Story and Its Writer has several famous essays on literary works from authors who are notable in their own right.
There's Janice H. Harris on "The Rocking Horse Winner", D.H. Lawrence on "The Cask of Amontillado", Vladimr Nabokov on "The Overcoat" and Salman Rushdie on "The Bloody Chamber"
Guess how many citations from outside sources all of these include?
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of essays in here
And some of them do have citations
But even then, even in the ones that are several pages long have at most two or three
And these are all published essays from prominent authors including some professors
Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
that makes sense to me
when I hear "cite outside sources" for some reason I've been taught to think direct quoting
I didn't know you had to cite something that you used simply as inspiration or to start the train of thought
I concede the point then
"Published" does not mean "academic".
In publishing, everything short of copyright infringement is kosher. A publisher doesn't really care about plagiarism because it isn't a crime in and of itself.
Academia has different standards. Copyright infringement isn't really an issue unless it's done in a way that's also plagiarism. It might harm your career as an ethics violation, but it doesn't taint your work itself the way plagiarism does.
Most work of this kind published anywhere except through a college, university, museum, scholarly journal, or similar make a show of following academic guidelines, but they rarely follow them very closely at all because they don' have to.
There's also some extra leeway when he author can call themselves and "expert". When that happens and how much leeway hey get varies based on he field, purpose and scope of the paper, publishing environment, and so on, bu it's generally a person well established and reputably published within a field and never extends to significant or controversial claims. It's not formal and really isn't supposed to happen at all, but it's the way things go.
Everyone, knock it off.
I might get to hang out with my favorite author tomorrow
SO EXCITED
If it's not properly cited, yes.
Stop plagiarising
Stephen Graham Jones!
Man that guy rules. I am genuinely excited.
Back when I had a podcast, I interviewed him. He was very cool.