Massive life drawing dump! (NSFW/56k Critiques please!)

DeeLock

Hey guys!

So this is my first thread in a while, i finally got around to photographing some of my life drawing class sketches. I have some oil paintings that i'd love to post as well but i haven't taken their pictures yet.

For what's here, i'd love a lot of scathing critique. What should my next step be? What should i work on? Are there any glaring anatomical errors? Any kind of feedback would be greatly appreciated.

My teacher is really zen and kinda soft. He's full of praise and love but i really like constructive criticism, i think i develop the most from it, so i'm not really getting my fix.

Thanks a lot

5 minute lay-ins:








25 minutes (mostly chronological):










Once again thanks for visiting

NightDragon

Scathing critique? A man after my own heart.


Your sense of weight doesn't seem so bad. I think you need to work on proportion, and negative space especially. Measure distances and angles with your pencil.

Humboldtsofar069.jpg (along with a few others) has the problem where you're making a few lines too heavy (lines on her abdomen) in relation to how you're using line in other places. If a line on the body is subtle, sometimes it doesn't even need to be drawn (especially if you're using a very fine line weight for the majority of the picture). I'm not sure how to fully put what I mean in words, but...as an example, if you're using a bold, heavy line to outline the figure, "lighter" lines can be used for subtleties within. If you start off with a "light" line to draw the body, every "light" line you make for the "interior", by comparison, is going to be equally as heavy, and demand equal amounts of attention. Using a heavy line for the outside and a "lighter" line for more subtle strokes makes a clear representation between the obvious, bold curves (like the curve of the breast) versus lighter marks that don't have as much "impact" on the figure (like hip-bones, in some cases).

I'm not sure if that made much sense, and I'm not suggesting you use heavy outlines (NOOOOO) on your figures, but maybe just consider the differences in line weight, depending on how "heavy" the line is in real life, on the figure.

Skeleton is much better, proportion-wise.

DeeLock

Ya i think proportion is my main problem right now...gotta work on that.

I understand what you're saying about line quality and i'll try to work on that to.

Thanks Night Dragon

Is there a reason i'm not getting any response? Are they that underwhelming?

NightDragon

Sure thang!

...and maybe try changing the thread title to include "crits?" or "CRITIQUE!" or something along those lines. Sometimes if I'm not really getting any feedback, I do that...which will usually gets me one or two additional replies...but hey, every bit counts!

Greatnation

The way I see it, is that there are two realms of drawing the figure. Drawing from the inside out, or the outside in. The first, you attack with structure and knowledge of proportions and anatomy to figure out the complex form in front of you. The second involves creating shapes and lines that match the form that you see, based on just looking and not bringing in any other given facts to the table. In a way, its pretending to not know anything about what you are drawing. Nobody really falls into these two realms a 100 percent though, and we all draw using a mixture of what we know and what we see.

I bring this up, because it seems you are having trouble balancing these two concepts. In your shorter drawings, things are falling out of proportion, but show an interest in invisible structure in some areas. The very first drawing has architectural lines in the legs and arms, but then it has a large mass of form that looks largely (and inaccurately) eyeballed. Do what your doing, and try to eyeball that form, but then reign it in with your own discussion of the invisible plains that you are trying to see. This will help fine tune your seeing, so you will be able to eyeball more accurately, and help inform your knowledge of proportion and anatomy.

Your longer poses show an interest in the abstract shapes on the figure, which I think is good. All of those forms created by the light and shadow are the keys of creating a convincing figure. Try to draw those as they are, and interlock them with the other shapes. Squint your eyes to see there positions. If your trying to draw in the head, look at the foot. Your going to look at the head anyway, but if you force yourself to look at other parts of the body you will be better off when your trying to gauge size and placement because those are all about relationships. What you are really doing when you are drawing is making a series of relationships, and the only way you can do that is to try and look at everything at once. I'm going to stop rambling now.



So yeah, your doing it right. Try to get in over your head. Draw in a way that you wouldn't think to. Like I said, if you are trying to place the left hand, look at the right hand.

rts

I think you need to look at the big shape of the pose first and foremost. Mark the top, bottom, left, right and middle of your composition (where you think the top of the head, bottom of the feet and left and right sides of the pose will be in your drawing then find the middle of the sort of invisible rectangle you have created). Then put down one big, accurate triangle that will contain the entire figure before you even start drawing anything else. Most poses will fit into a triangle, though you may need to get a bit more complex at times. You should still keep it as simple as possible though. Once you get the basic shape of the pose down you will be less likely to stray from the big picture.

Next I would work on your edges, there is almost no variation.

And third, if you are going to put a value into your shadows dont dick around. You dont need to open up a portal into the void but right now you are being incredibly timid about blocking in your shadow shapes with value. It's just a drawing, if you fuck it up you do another. In fact, you are going to do another even if it is the greatest drawing ever so what does it matter?

I would like to give more of a visual representation of what I am talking about but I am in LA for a couple of weeks and do not have access to the proper tools.

DeeLock

Wow, ok, it looks like i've got a lot to think about.

I'm planning on spending all day today practicing, so i might have some more to put up later tonight.

@Greatnation:

I am having a bit of a problem finding myself as an artist. I'm not sure what works the best for me, either shape analization or building the model from guidelines or what...this method is from Cambiaso, he would block out the figures in blocks...i'm not sure if i especially like this method but it's what my teacher has the whole class doing. It should look a bit like this:



But i'm just not comfortable with breaking down a person into such a simple abstraction...I guess i just need to keep working on it.

As far as what you're saying i totally agree and i understand what you mean about relationships. Too often i get lost in one feature (like the head or torso) and then remember that arms come out of bodies, so i slap them on really fast...by far not the best way to draw.

Thank you, i'll try to keep what you've said in mind.

@Cakemikz:

I do need to work more on abstraction...that's a fact. I'll try that placement method next time i'm drawing. I don't think i focus enough on the big picture and that's a problem i need to work on.

What do you mean variation in my edges? Could you show some examples...i don't really understand what you're saying.

Whenever i try to go balls out with value it always goes straight to black...i've been trying to work on a more subtle gradation...i'm not sure i'm in the right frame of mind about that. My teacher's drawings are barely whispers on the paper and they look amazing (for the most part). I'm not saying i want to be doing that but i don't want to rush myself into destroying a drawing with such heavy shading. I just need to practice i think...and do some long poses...ug lots of stuff to do.

I would love a little visual coaching or something if you ever find the time

rts

Here is an example of what I am talking about with edges:



On this drawing look at her left forearm. The core shadow running from her wrist to her elbow is entirely consistant. In reality her arm froms more of a cone leading into the box of the wrist. At the widest part of the cone (near the elbow) the edge should be softer, near the wrist where it is more of a box than a cone, the plane changes are more dramatic and so the edge gets harder. By hard and soft I mean how quickly the form moves from dark to light.

This is why people often start drawing simple three dimensional shapes before they go to the figure, and why people break the figure down into simple three dimensional forms. By keeping these simple forms in mind we can quickly get down the three deimensional form of a pose quickly and accurately. I personally do not like the way Cambiaso works because the figure is not made up of boxes, at least I do not see it that way. I suppose if you are going to simplify everything into cones boxes spheres and cylinders there isnt really any reason it cant be simplified to boxes, but I just feel it doesnt help anything at that point. It seems like more of a design choice (which is fine) than a real practice for learning to draw the figure accurately.

We usually consider edges in four different types at my school, but in reality they are of course infinite. But as with almost everything else in drawing there is a simplified approach to help us achieve something nice quickly. These four types are hard, firm, soft, and lost. A hard edge is essentially a line. You will see it most often in cast shadows on the figure, below the chin/breasts etc. A lost edge is essentially not an edge at all, it is a transition from light to dark which is very subtle. Firm and Soft edges are somewhere in between. Here is a little page on edges from one of my instructor's tutorials: http://www.erikgist.com/images/forum/Page19.jpg the full tutorial can be found here.

Hope that helps.

DeeLock

oh wow that makes a lot of sense!

Thanks a lot for clarifying

I have class again tomorrow, i can't wait to practice everything that's been said.