ROUND TWO: FIGHT F: PRE-FIGHT DEBATE

Son of Beyonder

GHOST RIDER – Created by: Roy Thomas. Gary Friedrich and Mike Ploog

POWERS AND ABILITIES: Supernatural strength and durability; rides a mystical flame cycle that can travel across any surface and attain incredible speeds; can project both regular and ethereal flame offensively. He also wields a magical chain which offers many forms of attack.


SHADE – Created by: Gardner Fox

POWERS AND ABILITIES: umbrakinesis (ability to control darkness) - ability to travel great distances in short amounts of time, and create constructs out of shadows;


AZTEK – Created by: Grant Morrison and Mark Millar

POWERS AND ABILITIES: Aztek is at the peak of physical and mental perfection. He wears an ancient helmet and armor (powered by a "4-dimensional mirror"), from which he derives flight, enhanced strength, infrared and X-Ray vision, invisibility, bodyheat camouflage, entrapment nets, plasma beams and variable density


CAPTAIN MARVEL – Created by: C.C. Beck and Bill Parker

POWERS AND ABILITIES: Magically bestowed aspects of various mythological figures which include vast super-strength, physical and magical invulnerability, super-speed, flight, fearlessness, vast wisdom/enhanced mental perception, able to control and emit magic lightning.

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In all second round battles, heroes may choose to prepare only at their own facilities, or at the facilities of their supergroup. Heroes may match video of two of their three opponents. Heroes have TWENTY MINUTES outside of video time to prepare for battle. If a character opts out of the video, he still only has twenty minutes to prepare. Heroes come equipped with their standard equipment, and may equip one special item, provided that item is not a dues ex machina. Weaknesses that are not publicly known to the hero’s home universe/world will not be made available to the heroes during prep time. Heroes who already know of these weaknesses for whatever reason are not caused to forget this information.

VOTING WILL TAKE PLACE IN A SEPARATE THREAD. RULES FOR VOTING WILL BE POSTED UPON THAT THREAD’S OPENING. THE VOTING THREAD WILL OPEN IN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS.



1. Giant forest – trees three times of any redwood
2. Baxter Building
3. the Grand Canyon
4. Alpine mountains
5. Monster Island

Kuribo's Shoe

Captain Marvel and Aztek

woo badasses

woooooo

but seriously Ghost Rider's out of his league

The Luggage

I agree with Shoe.

Although Shade may have the ability to seperate Billy and Mr. Wizard, ala Obsidian.

Fencingsax

Yeah, Plus there's the fuact that none of these guys are going to have the full power of VENGEANCE after them.

Definitely Marvel, but it seems that SHade's and Aztek's powers derive from opposing Natures (i.e. light and dark.) I'll have to decide that one.

Wiki isn't really helpful, can anyone elaborate on the powers/weaknesses of the two? Specifically whether shadow or light, respectively does them harm?

deadonthestreet

The Luggage wrote:

Although Shade may have the ability to seperate Billy and Mr. Wizard, ala Obsidian.

Wait, what?

If he can do that, then I'm going Ghost Rider and Shade.

If not, Marvel and Shade.

Because I still think Aztek is really lame.

The Luggage

deadonthestreet wrote:

The Luggage wrote:

Although Shade may have the ability to seperate Billy and Mr. Wizard, ala Obsidian.

Wait, what?

If he can do that, then I'm going Ghost Rider and Shade.

If not, Marvel and Shade.

Because I still think Aztek is really lame.

Obsidian sucked Billy into some shadow dimension-thing, and while inside, he couldn't use his powers. The Shade later showed up.

So it's a possibility, although not something I'd count on.

Kuribo's Shoe

deadonthestreet wrote:

The Luggage wrote:

Although Shade may have the ability to seperate Billy and Mr. Wizard, ala Obsidian.

Wait, what?

If he can do that, then I'm going Ghost Rider and Shade.

If not, Marvel and Shade.

Because I still think Aztek is really lame.

that's a pretty good reason

deadonthestreet

Actually, I hadn't noticed the terrain. I think that'll fuck Ghost Rider up really bad. He is kinda boned.

DharmaBum

I go Captain Marvel and Aztek.

I was origionally Marvel and Ghost Rider but the Terain does not favor Motorcycling at all.

I really didn't want to vote for Aztek but unless his powers are derived directly from the sun or light for the matter Shade probably wont be able to beat him.

DJ Eebs

Dude, he's got a fucking magic motorcycle. That can ride up the side of buildings and shit.

Trees and mountains won't really pose much of a problem, I don't think.

Adaemus1sf

With Marvel's role as Superman for Magic now (unless we decided not to use any aspects of his new book for this, not just his new powers), he's likely to want to get rid of the motorcycle-riding demon pretty quick. Actually, he probably would anyway.
Aztek's being trained to fight the Aztec shadow god, right? Is he gonna go straight after Shade, and is his training going to give him something useful against the guy?

Caveman Paws

Captain Marvel and anyone else besides Aztek. Lets just say Shade.

Aztek has a lame back story, lame power source which makes little or no sense and then to top it off he looks like he chose his suit from the scraps of a discount bin at a costume shop.

Adaemus1sf

The Luggage wrote:

deadonthestreet wrote:

The Luggage wrote:

Although Shade may have the ability to seperate Billy and Mr. Wizard, ala Obsidian.

Wait, what?

If he can do that, then I'm going Ghost Rider and Shade.

If not, Marvel and Shade.

Because I still think Aztek is really lame.

Obsidian sucked Billy into some shadow dimension-thing, and while inside, he couldn't use his powers. The Shade later showed up.

So it's a possibility, although not something I'd count on.

The Shade and Obsidian both get their powers through the Shadowlands, according to Wikipedia, so if Obsidian could do it, the Shade probably could too.

Olivaw

I will not give up on Ghost Rider. I think he could take Shade at least. As for the other two, I don't know. Aztek might actually take out Marvel if he can use his variable density power well.

Variable density is like punching a guy, but that punch has the force of an small continent behind it, if I'm understanding it right. I'd say that could be the deciding factor between them.

Munkus Beaver

First question I ask: how will the terrain affect the combatants.

Second question: how will the prep time and video affect the combatants?

Third question: Does Marvel's powers include the dick of Priapus?

Kane Red Robe

The Luggage wrote:

deadonthestreet wrote:

The Luggage wrote:

Although Shade may have the ability to seperate Billy and Mr. Wizard, ala Obsidian.

Wait, what?

If he can do that, then I'm going Ghost Rider and Shade.

If not, Marvel and Shade.

Because I still think Aztek is really lame.

Obsidian sucked Billy into some shadow dimension-thing, and while inside, he couldn't use his powers. The Shade later showed up.

So it's a possibility, although not something I'd count on.

So, he sucked Billy in before he transformed though right? Because if that's the case, the odds of Marvel coming into the fight in Billy-form are pretty much zilch.

Terrorbyte

Captain Marvel could give Ghost Rider a serious pounding, since they're both essentially magic-based characters and Marvel is the kind of pure o' heart dude that might give a hell-powered dude some trouble.

Shade could possibly pull an Obsidian on Captain Marvel, but that happened when Obsidian was insanely powerful, working with Eclipso and essentially sucking the entire world into darkness at whim. This is also assuming that Shade has access to the magical dimension of Obsidian and Nightshade ... who, come to think of it, may not use the same power source.

The thing is, we have two (possibly three) magical heavy hitters dukin' it out and one dude in a super-spiffy suit as the outside favorite. So, I think The Shade knocks off Marvel and Ghost Rider and Aztek sits back and watches the shit go down.

I'm torn between Marvel, Shade and Ghost Rider here. That's where all the action is gonna go down. Aztek would play it smart and stay out of the magical battle, so he's moving on. It's a toss-up between the three magical characters. I'd like to hear some convincing arguments for all three.

Kane Red Robe

And when, pray tell was the last time Aztek played it smart? Unfortunately, the only exposure I've had to him is in the JLA, where he kills himself by destroying his 4-dimensional power source, not once, but twice (alternate future).

Terrorbyte

Kayne Red Robe wrote:

And when, pray tell was the last time Aztec played it smart? Unfortunately, the only exposure I've had to him is in the JLA, where he kills himself by destroying his 4-dimensional power source, not once, but twice (alternate future).

Well, to be fair, Mageddon was a bit out of everyone's league. But, Aztek was J'onn's replacement at tactical on the Watchtower. He'd be able to read this situation in a heartbeat.

Bad Karma

Caveman Paws wrote:

Captain Marvel and anyone else besides Aztek. Lets just say Shade.

Aztek has a lame back story, lame power source which makes little or no sense and then to top it off he looks like he chose his suit from the scraps of a discount bin at a costume shop.

As usual..the logical reasoning.

Servo

shade shade shade

dude's crazy immortal, plus he has a lot more experience handling his powers than any of the others.

someone asked about light harming him so...in starman, there's a couple parts where jack has to hit shade with some big old beams of light energy from his cosmic staff. without giving away too many plot points, it doesn't really hurt him and in fact, it kind of heals what was wrong with his powers. it hurts sure, but he's pretty much ok right afterwards.

Servo

man, aztek's not some sucker just because he's not crazy popular, guys


aztek is badass, and he's gonna be my second vote.

Kane Red Robe

I do like me some Aztek, the kid's got grit, I'll give him that. Do wish he had better taste in costumes though.
To be honest I'd go with Aztek and Marvel here, although I never vote so that doesn't mean much.

Servo

to be fair, he didn't pick his costume

Servo

also, do we know which ghost rider this is?


i assume johnny blaze, but...

Servo

here guys

One of the most powerful heroes of his time, Aztek was at the peak of physical and mental perfection. He wears an ancient helmet and armor (powered by a "4-dimensional mirror"), from which he derives flight, superhuman physical abilities, infrared and X-Ray vision, invisibility, intangibility bodyheat camouflage, entrapment nets, plasma beams and density manipulation.

ghost rider is gonna get his ass beat

Slagmire

A vote that's not for Shade is a vote for communism. Don't be a communist!

As for my second vote, as much as I'd like to vote for Ghost Rider because he has way too many forms of attack and containment, I'd have to give it to Marvel I think. I just think Shazam can get past those and put some hurting on Blaze. Aztek is just going to get embaressed by Shade.

Charmy

Twelve seconds into the fight, Captain Marvel smites them all with his most powerful lightning. It's later revealed he's actually a clone, built and controlled by Son of Beyonder for nefarious purposes.

Seriously, though, this is a fight for who comes second after Captain Marvel. Right now I'm betting on Shade, if for no other reason than that Capt. Marvel would probably go after Ghost Rider and Aztek first.

Yeah, that's pretty terrible reasoning. I'm more than open to better arguments here.

Marathon

Ill have to go with Shade and Captain Marvel. They both just have too much going for them to lose.

I wanted to see Ghost Rider move on to the next round just to see him set MM on fire and laugh his ass off.

Scooter

Marathon wrote:

Ill have to go with Shade and Captain Marvel. They both just have too much going for them to lose.

I wanted to see Ghost Rider move on to the next round just to see him set MM on fire and laugh his ass off.

Same here.

Kuribo's Shoe

it makes me sad that people don't know who aztek is

you grant morrison ass-kissers, you should be suckin' his dick from here to kalamazoo

but anyways I like shade and all but I think Captain Marvel could take him. and really, I just do not see Ghost Rider winning.

Doodmann

Scooter wrote:

Marathon wrote:

Ill have to go with Shade and Captain Marvel. They both just have too much going for them to lose.

I wanted to see Ghost Rider move on to the next round just to see him set MM on fire and laugh his ass off.

Same here.

I've wanted MM to be on fire since the start of this thing.

manaleak34

Marvel and Shade.

Marvel would go straight for Ghost Rider, being from hell and what not. Marvel I think could easily overpower Ghost Rider.

While the Azteck vs. Shade fight would be interesting but I think Shade could pull it off by doing something really sneaky. This guy is basically immortal so he's been fighting for some time.

And besides Azteck only lasted ten issues :P

Olivaw

I think Marvel would go for Aztek since he would know (with the Wisdom of Solomon) that he was the biggest threat.

Meanwhile Shade and Ghost Rider fight and Ghost Rider gives him the Penance Stare and since Shade is a villain Ghost Rider wins.

Aztek has intangibility and density manipulation, so he might actually beat Marvel if he uses those properly. More than likely Marvel walks away with this one though.

Marvel and Ghost Rider move on, Ghost Rider fries Martian Manhunter next round, laughs.

robosagogo

I looked it up for his first bout, and the Ghost Rider who's competing doesn't have the Penance Stare. Besides, it works on everyone and would be an instant win.

"Unlike Blaze, the Ketch Ghost Rider possessed a Penance Stare which made the target experience all the pain and suffering they've caused others."

You think the supervillains who get beat up and put away don't feel pain?

Terrorbyte

Olivaw wrote:

I think Marvel would go for Aztek since he would know (with the Wisdom of Solomon) that he was the biggest threat.

Why would two former Leaguers attack each other?

Caveman Paws

It sounds like there is a logical way to vote for marvel and shade, true it has nothing to do with my initial knee jerk "omg I can't stand aztek" train of thought but I'll take what I can get.

Marvel and Shade. This was one of the quickest pair of fights when it comes to voting for moi.

Wake me up when the next round starts.

Olivaw

robosagogo wrote:

I looked it up for his first bout, and the Ghost Rider who's competing doesn't have the Penance Stare. Besides, it works on everyone and would be an instant win.

"Unlike Blaze, the Ketch Ghost Rider possessed a Penance Stare which made the target experience all the pain and suffering they've caused others."

You think the supervillains who get beat up and put away don't feel pain?

No Penance Stare? Well, shit

I also did not know Aztek was in the League. So that makes it Marvel and Aztek versus a known DC villain and a guy with a flaming skull for a head. Shit.

Servo

if shade was a villain, he wouldn't be in the contest

jack knight vouches for him now

Mai-Kero

Doodmann wrote:

Scooter wrote:

Marathon wrote:

Ill have to go with Shade and Captain Marvel. They both just have too much going for them to lose.

I wanted to see Ghost Rider move on to the next round just to see him set MM on fire and laugh his ass off.

Same here.

I've wanted MM to be on fire since the start of this thing.

Tony will do it.

This fight is Shade and Marvel. I'd give Marvel an edge over Aztek because he's so awesome. ARMAGEDDDON HAS ARRIVED

Shade is the best person in the DC universe. Does anyone have the link to that blog or whatever with the top ten most badass Shade moments?

"Oh, I'm shaking in my boots.

How about you?"

Guek

Olivaw wrote:

robosagogo wrote:

I looked it up for his first bout, and the Ghost Rider who's competing doesn't have the Penance Stare. Besides, it works on everyone and would be an instant win.

"Unlike Blaze, the Ketch Ghost Rider possessed a Penance Stare which made the target experience all the pain and suffering they've caused others."

You think the supervillains who get beat up and put away don't feel pain?

No Penance Stare? Well, shit

I also did not know Aztek was in the League. So that makes it Marvel and Aztek versus a known DC villain and a guy with a flaming skull for a head. Shit.

the current jhonny blaze can do the penance stare. apparently, according to wikipedia, he pwned doc strange with it. fuckin badass. personally i think he might be too powerful for this tourney...but hell, ghost rider is fuckin awesome so i don't really care