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WoW: Wrath of the Bitching [Chat and General Discussion] :

Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
edited October 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
So Blizzcon is this weekend!

Dual specs!

Insider info!

Crazy, huh?

Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Munkus Beaver on
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    WrenWren ninja_bird Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    whats blizzcon?

    Wren on
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Why do people seem to get the retarded idea that you would want 24 healers in raid? Or that you would swap in a person who's gear may not be up to par or doesn't want to heal instead of swapping in a real healer? Holy christ, why is this a hard concept to understand?

    Thomamelas on
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    SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dual specs seems awesome

    Senshi on
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    ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I would love dual specs. Makes my disc priest arena whoring and holy healing all that much easier. Of course I'm not in the beta and completly out of the loop so god knows what spec I'll want come 3.0

    Arrath on
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    MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Why not Bitch King?

    MayGodHaveMercy on
    XBL: Mercy XXVI - Steam: Mercy_XXVI - PSN: Mercy XXVI
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    MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Why do people seem to get the retarded idea that you would want 24 healers in raid? Or that you would swap in a person who's gear may not be up to par or doesn't want to heal instead of swapping in a real healer? Holy christ, why is this a hard concept to understand?

    People hate their healers, apparently.

    Mgcw on
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    BillmaanBillmaan Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    No, see, this is a serious problem.

    Now if I'm in a pug and the healer dies and we wipe, it'll automatically be my fault for not respeccing resto and saving us all. Even if I'm tanking at the time.

    Billmaan on
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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    HEY GUYS DUAL SPECS MEAN THAT ROGUES ARE WORTHLESS HEY GUYS

    Opty on
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    MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Billmaan wrote: »
    No, see, this is a serious problem.

    Now if I'm in a pug and the healer dies and we wipe, it'll automatically be my fault for not respeccing resto and saving us all. Even if I'm tanking at the time.

    I know you were being sarcastic, but just to address it a bit

    I would say with 99% certainty that you can't respec in combat and you can't switch gear even if you could. They've already stated that you can't respec in the middle of PvP.

    Mgcw on
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    DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Why do people seem to get the retarded idea that you would want 24 healers in raid? Or that you would swap in a person who's gear may not be up to par or doesn't want to heal instead of swapping in a real healer? Holy christ, why is this a hard concept to understand?

    It's my understanding that specs can be swapped midfight -- if this is true, then I guarantee that that will be expected, at least in some raids, likely tilted more towards the hardcore. I can't say I really enjoy the notion of having to respect between ret and holy in the same fight, to be honest, with all the troubles that incurs (notably, talented abilities disappearing from your toolbar and having to be reset).

    Basically, whatever advantage players can grab in this game, they will -- and force it upon other people in the same raid for whom it's a pretty giant pain in the ass to do so.

    I don't know exactly how much this will come into play. It might be unnecessary and thus be less relied upon. But from elixir stacking to out-of-raid soulstone swapping, people have heavily abused said tricks any time they can, and I doubt this will be different.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I don't like it because my paladin is ret, and as ret, people will now expect me to heal or tank when we need one. Fuck that!

    Beyond Normal on
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    MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dkarrde wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Why do people seem to get the retarded idea that you would want 24 healers in raid? Or that you would swap in a person who's gear may not be up to par or doesn't want to heal instead of swapping in a real healer? Holy christ, why is this a hard concept to understand?

    It's my understanding that specs can be swapped midfight

    Bzzzzzt, wrong, even if you could you couldn't swap the gear in the middle of combat required to make the move.

    Mgcw on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The dual-spec system will be introduced in a content patch. The goal is to let you switch specs very easily in raid, even between fights ! However it won't be possible to switch specs in the middle of an arena match.
    Emphasis on between. There's no way in hell they're going to let people swap specs in combat.

    -SPI- on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dual-spec isn't making WotLK launch? That sucks.

    Henroid on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I would be amazed if you could swap specs in combat, in a battleground/arena, or for that matter in an instance. I would also be surprised if the swap ability didn't have a considerable cooldown.

    This change is much more about letting people who pay 100g+ on a weekly basis to swap between pve and pvp spend less money than it is about raid comp, or swapping during fights.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Diablo II (and other games of the genre) allows you to equip two sets of gear and switch between them with the press of the button. Switching specs in this manner to me seems to be a natural extension of that practice.

    delroland on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    <--- Called it.

    [/Colbert]

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dyscord wrote: »
    I would be amazed if you could swap specs in combat, in a battleground/arena, or for that matter in an instance. I would also be surprised if the swap ability didn't have a considerable cooldown.

    This change is much more about letting people who pay 100g+ on a weekly basis to swap between pve and pvp spend less money than it is about raid comp, or swapping during fights.

    Midcombat, I don't think so. Instance however, yes. I believe they also made a point to mention it will not be usable in an Arena.

    EvilBadman on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    There isn't much point to making it mid fight, unless they intend to let us swap gear mid fight too. This would primarily affect tanks, of course, but even with the spellpower change, I have doubts that it'd be overpowered for healers (though I'm sure it'll save raids/wipes now and then), and few pure dps classes would have much of a reason to swap, and even then there are gear differences between, say, a combat rogue and a mutilate rogue.

    However, as I pointed out so very long ago, they could incorperate the ability to switch specs within encounters where you drop combat between phases.

    Nothing too harsh, like absolutely requiring BOTH specs to be proper raid specs (though if given the chance, I'm sure some raids would do as much), but perhaps fights where you need 25 dps at a given point, or other such encounter mechanics.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Yeah, I don't expect to see it anytime before the first major content patch after the xpac at the very least. I wonder what kind of cooldown they'll put on it? The example GC used was "if you like to tank on the weekend and DPS during the week, this is perfect for you", so I'm thinking 24 hour CD or thereabouts. I doubt it'll be something you can pop on and off at will throughout the day, but who knows.

    Halfmex on
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    TheEmergedTheEmerged Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Well, it's officially the weekend, so I'm going to get 2 chances to finish off the Swift Flight Form quest. Let's hope I can get a group together...

    TheEmerged on
    Sometimes, the knights are the monsters
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2008
    "Hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"
    "So...why isn't it part of the expansion launch?"
    "...hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"

    What the fuck.

    Sterica on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Halfmex wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't expect to see it anytime before the first major content patch after the xpac at the very least. I wonder what kind of cooldown they'll put on it? The example GC used was "if you like to tank on the weekend and DPS during the week, this is perfect for you", so I'm thinking 24 hour CD or thereabouts. I doubt it'll be something you can pop on and off at will throughout the day, but who knows.

    I can't see it being any longer than a 1 hour cooldown if it's going to be usable in raids (in combat?). Why would it matter if you could use it during a raid if you could only do it once, and then were stuck in your second spec?

    I'm thinking more like 5 minutes, and possibly less than 30 seconds. It can't be done in arenas, so if they want to allow people to swap 'on the fly' for pve content, having a lengthy cooldown is completely counter productive to that end.

    I could be wrong, but it just seems like it'll be something doable multiple times per day, if not per hour, otherwise you might as well just have people go back to respec'ing as needed for encounters.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    "Hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"
    "So...why isn't it part of the expansion launch?"
    "...hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"

    What the fuck.

    Pacing. TBC front loaded a lot of content, people burned through it and got bored.

    Thomamelas on
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    "Hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"
    "So...why isn't it part of the expansion launch?"
    "...hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"

    What the fuck.
    Pacing. TBC front loaded a lot of content, people burned through it and got bored.
    People didn't burn through it. They got cockblocked by stupid trash and poorly tuned bosses. Oh, and the Hyjal attunement process (Vashj/Kael dropping ONE vial). When 2.1 hit PTR, they actually tested Hyjal because nobody had gone there before. People are going to rifle through content...it's pointless to make them wait on finished stuff.

    This is Blizzard taking finished content and delaying it so they can pretend they have a patch cycle that doesn't have players sitting bored for a couple months.

    Sterica on
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    mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    "Hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"
    "So...why isn't it part of the expansion launch?"
    "...hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"

    What the fuck.
    Pacing. TBC front loaded a lot of content, people burned through it and got bored.
    People didn't burn through it. They got cockblocked by stupid trash and poorly tuned bosses. Oh, and the Hyjal attunement process (Vashj/Kael dropping ONE vial). When 2.1 hit PTR, they actually tested Hyjal because nobody had gone there before. People are going to rifle through content...it's pointless to make them wait on finished stuff.

    This is Blizzard taking finished content and delaying it so they can pretend they have a patch cycle that doesn't have players sitting bored for a couple months.

    Well, when they say done do they mean the content is complete, or that the content has been completed and tested.

    Because if it's not been tested yet, then that would be a reason for not releasing it immediately.

    mynameisguido on
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    KVWKVW Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Swapping specs will most likely be like the Lexicons of Power for Glyphs. You have to go stand near something in order to activate a new spec. I'd say Meeting Stones would be a good spot for this if they went that route, as that would be the most likely time youd need or want to quickly respec to healing / tanking / whatever. Put something in the main cities for quick pvp swap too.

    KVW on
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    "Hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"
    "So...why isn't it part of the expansion launch?"
    "...hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"

    What the fuck.
    Pacing. TBC front loaded a lot of content, people burned through it and got bored.
    People didn't burn through it. They got cockblocked by stupid trash and poorly tuned bosses. Oh, and the Hyjal attunement process (Vashj/Kael dropping ONE vial). When 2.1 hit PTR, they actually tested Hyjal because nobody had gone there before. People are going to rifle through content...it's pointless to make them wait on finished stuff.

    This is Blizzard taking finished content and delaying it so they can pretend they have a patch cycle that doesn't have players sitting bored for a couple months.

    For SSC and TK. Gruul's was overtuned at release. Then patch 2.1 gave us BT. From there the next 25 man zone was 9 months later. There is one ten man thrown in. Once you got to BT/MH the only thing that slowed you down was getting the attunements done for people. Once that was done, people blazed through BT and MH.

    While Blizzard made a huge effort to make more varied content, the release schedules were very slow. Things like Ogrila were burned through extremely quickly. There was a strong issue with the pacing of content, and given the amount of content in WotLK, I can live with having the next content patch done. We're not getting shorted on content, we're getting more then early TBC had, and we should see slightly more rapid content releases over the life of the expansion.

    Thomamelas on
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    JoonJoon Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    "Hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"
    "So...why isn't it part of the expansion launch?"
    "...hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"

    What the fuck.
    Pacing. TBC front loaded a lot of content, people burned through it and got bored.
    People didn't burn through it. They got cockblocked by stupid trash and poorly tuned bosses. Oh, and the Hyjal attunement process (Vashj/Kael dropping ONE vial). When 2.1 hit PTR, they actually tested Hyjal because nobody had gone there before. People are going to rifle through content...it's pointless to make them wait on finished stuff.

    This is Blizzard taking finished content and delaying it so they can pretend they have a patch cycle that doesn't have players sitting bored for a couple months.

    I believe it was 4 vials.

    But, yes. The intro raid dropping gear equivalent to blues. Mags and Gruul both being massively powerful. Ridiculous respawn timers in SSC so you had to constantly reclear to buggy bosses that dropped 1 piece of tier gear and 1 other.

    BC raids were fucking awful for a while.

    Joon on
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    DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Joon wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    "Hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"
    "So...why isn't it part of the expansion launch?"
    "...hey guys! Patch 3.1 is already done!"

    What the fuck.
    Pacing. TBC front loaded a lot of content, people burned through it and got bored.
    People didn't burn through it. They got cockblocked by stupid trash and poorly tuned bosses. Oh, and the Hyjal attunement process (Vashj/Kael dropping ONE vial). When 2.1 hit PTR, they actually tested Hyjal because nobody had gone there before. People are going to rifle through content...it's pointless to make them wait on finished stuff.

    This is Blizzard taking finished content and delaying it so they can pretend they have a patch cycle that doesn't have players sitting bored for a couple months.

    I believe it was 4 vials.

    But, yes. The intro raid dropping gear equivalent to blues. Mags and Gruul both being massively powerful. Ridiculous respawn timers in SSC so you had to constantly reclear to buggy bosses that dropped 1 piece of tier gear and 1 other.

    BC raids were fucking awful for a while.

    BC was initially well itemized. Gladiator and Kara drops were slightly better than blues, but not massively so. Made for good pvp.

    DisruptorX2 on
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    DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Mgcw wrote: »
    Dkarrde wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Why do people seem to get the retarded idea that you would want 24 healers in raid? Or that you would swap in a person who's gear may not be up to par or doesn't want to heal instead of swapping in a real healer? Holy christ, why is this a hard concept to understand?

    It's my understanding that specs can be swapped midfight

    Bzzzzzt, wrong, even if you could you couldn't swap the gear in the middle of combat required to make the move.

    Mildly rude, but okay. Turns out my information was wrong, but in the hypothetical that it had been correct, even with gear ill-suited to the task a respec would allow a feral druid to put out pretty respectable healing in the middle of a fight. Weapons are a fairly large part of the spell power of a healer, even if they're hardly the majority.

    Nevertheless, it seems what I heard was wrong, and that's good. It'd be an extremely awkward thing to have to respec in the middle of a fight.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm shocked they're letting you do the swap spec thing between fights. I totally would have called something in the form of a cooldown, like 24 hours or so. Long enough so you can't be going back and forth in a raid, but short enough so it's not restrictive.

    Incorperate this into the Itemrack functionality they're adding, so that I can go Battle/Arms, Berserker/Fury and Defensive/Prot, all at the touch of a button...

    Damn, I'm drooling just thinking about it.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    If the cooldown had a 24 hour cooldown, you'd still be able to switch it mid-raid, ya know.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Why would they ever give us two specs and put a 24 hour cooldown on it? What would be the point? People who'd actually swap their specs with any frequency (pre raid PVP -> raid -> farming (even with improvements to non-dps specs, probably not ideal for tanks and healers), etc) aren't going to wait 24 hours, they'll just go pay 50 gold to swap their spec as needed.

    I could be wrong, but this feels far more like a way to help people build groups (5 mans to 25 mans), and that falls on the tanks and healers. What's the point of letting a tank class spec to tank a 5 man if they're locked out from their pvp or farming spec for 24 hours?

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    Considering the changes to spec viability, I can certainly agree with letting people switch their specs more liberally. All specs are supposed to be viable. There will always be a min/max spec for a rogue to choose, and there will always be superior PvP specs that ignores that PvE aspect.

    The more DPS centric your class is, the more choices they have for switching up their playstyle in either pvp or pve. Whereas as a Pally, I might be able to spec for healing or tanking, but I only got one tree to play with to get mah deeps on.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    Why would they ever give us two specs and put a 24 hour cooldown on it? What would be the point? People who'd actually swap their specs with any frequency (pre raid PVP -> raid -> farming (even with improvements to non-dps specs, probably not ideal for tanks and healers), etc) aren't going to wait 24 hours, they'll just go pay 50 gold to swap their spec as needed.

    I could be wrong, but this feels far more like a way to help people build groups (5 mans to 25 mans), and that falls on the tanks and healers. What's the point of letting a tank class spec to tank a 5 man if they're locked out from their pvp or farming spec for 24 hours?

    I was thinking along the lines that, once you're in the group/raid, you're more or less going to be sticking to your job for the rest of the run. The MT is going to be the tank, so there's no real reason for him to switch to DPS at all. Meanwhile, the other tanks that want to come but are undesirable because of their lame DPS can now go that spec and stay that way for the night.

    I was just for sure thinking that they wouldn't want you doing it on-the-fly. So you pick a cooldown that's long enough to not be exploitable, but short enough to not feel restrictive. A day sounded perfect to me. But it looks like they don't care about jumping back and forth, so it's all good.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    SaraLunaSaraLuna Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I was thinking along the lines that, once you're in the group/raid, you're more or less going to be sticking to your job for the rest of the run. The MT is going to be the tank, so there's no real reason for him to switch to DPS at all. Meanwhile, the other tanks that want to come but are undesirable because of their lame DPS can now go that spec and stay that way for the night.

    on the fly switching lets them put in encounters that need say, 3 offtanks.
    now you can have your fury warrior, your retadin and your boomkin switch to prot/feral for the fight and then sawp back to dps afterwards.
    instead of the method many guilds use today: boot those 3 guys from the raid and bring in 3 tank specced guys for the encounter.

    SaraLuna on
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    WrenWren ninja_bird Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    man I need 5k more rep to get exalted with the gnomes. everyone has been maxed exalted for a while. damn you gnomes and your lack of quests.

    anyone know of a list out there of all the +500 alliance rep quest lines?

    Wren on
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    ZythonZython Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Wren wrote: »
    man I need 5k more rep to get exalted with the gnomes. everyone has been maxed exalted for a while. damn you gnomes and your lack of quests.

    anyone know of a list out there of all the +500 alliance rep quest lines?

    I'm having similar problems with SMC rep.

    Zython on
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    WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Fuck me.

    Now I need to decide... Holy Pally as offspec, or Prot Pally?

    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    Wavechaser on
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