I'd watch Biden, letterman will be a softball mccain knob slobber fest. I'm sure Joe the Plumber will be the topic of conversation.
So you don't watch Letterman, I take it.
I do, I know how treated O'reilly, but McCain will not be walking into an interview that will be anything but sunshine and bullshit. He announced his campaign on letterman and that kind of cordiality is what he will get tonight you can bank on that.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Ideally, what we'd do right now is cut taxes on the middle class (pro-tip: there's never any pro-economy reason to cut taxes on the poor; we do it only because it's "fair" and because it's easier to sell the tax-cuts to the public) and leave the upper class alone. Generally speaking, raising taxes when the economy is eating itself is not a great idea. The problem right now is that the retardly high deficits are actually contributing to the tanking of the economy, and so a revenue-negative tax cut would likely cause more harm than good. Obama, then, is funding his tax cut for the middle class by raising taxes on the wealthy, thus making the plan revenue neutral. A little harm on the supply side, but a lot of help on the demand side.
As tax policies go, Obama's is fairly well designed and a lot more sophisticated than what we usually get (either "tax cuts for all!" or "tax hikes for the wealthy!").
I'm going to have to disagree with that. The economic thinking behind cutting taxes for the poor (which, depending on how you define poor, is effectively a check cut directly to them in the form a return versus a lower tax bill) is exactly the same as the economic rationale for cutting taxes on the middle class: trickle up economics gives you exponentially more economic growth than trickle down economics.
See my post above.
And as to raising taxes on the wealthy, in general it's probably true that no one's taxes should go up during a down turn, but given the fact that the stock market is in turmoil, money markets aren't much better, and increasingly the wealthy are just rolling their excess capital into extremely safe vehicles (near zero yield treasury bonds, etc) I think there's a case to be made that taking a part of that as added government revenue, which can then be plowed back into more effective avenues of economic growth (pretty much any form of government spending, including the tax cuts they're offsetting) will do significantly more to turn the economy around than the damage done by a relatively small tax hike on a infinitesimal fraction of the population.
That's pretty much what I said - we should increase their taxes not because it won't be painless or because it has an actual economic benefit, but because we need that revenue to do other things.
And that's leaving aside there's preciously little in the way of actual proof that people are nearly as concerned about their actual marginal tax rate as conservative pundits like to pretend.
People are concerned about the amount of money the pay to the government, yes. And the more they pay, the more concerned they are.
ElJeffe on
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I'd watch Biden, letterman will be a softball mccain knob slobber fest. I'm sure Joe the Plumber will be the topic of conversation.
So you don't watch Letterman, I take it.
I do, I know how treated O'reilly, but McCain will not be walking into an interview that will be anything but sunshine and bullshit. He announced his campaign on letterman and that kind of cordiality is what he will get tonight you can bank on that.
I'd watch Biden, letterman will be a softball mccain knob slobber fest. I'm sure Joe the Plumber will be the topic of conversation.
So you don't watch Letterman, I take it.
I do, I know how treated O'reilly, but McCain will not be walking into an interview that will be anything but sunshine and bullshit. He announced his campaign on letterman and that kind of cordiality is what he will get tonight you can bank on that.
I figured Letterman would totally shock him and call him out - because thats what he does. If he decides to write you off, he doesn't care WHAT you think, or what happens, he sends you off with a bang. I know McCain is different than Paris Hilton - but he had agreed to not discuss prison with her prior to the interview, and then totally did it anyway. He just doesn't care.
But truthfully, his show has long since been recorded and edited for tonight. If there was anything great, we'd have heard about it by now.
mxmarks on
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I'd watch Biden, letterman will be a softball mccain knob slobber fest. I'm sure Joe the Plumber will be the topic of conversation.
So you don't watch Letterman, I take it.
I do, I know how treated O'reilly, but McCain will not be walking into an interview that will be anything but sunshine and bullshit. He announced his campaign on letterman and that kind of cordiality is what he will get tonight you can bank on that.
(pro-tip: there's never any pro-economy reason to cut taxes on the poor; we do it only because it's "fair" and because it's easier to sell the tax-cuts to the public)
Protip: Yes there is.
Pro Explanation: Externalities. When poor people can't pay for shit, they externalize their costs onto everyone else. increasing deadweight loss which increases the aggregate costs to society for those necessary services[and everyones taxes], for those who are able to afford it.
I'd watch Biden, letterman will be a softball mccain knob slobber fest. I'm sure Joe the Plumber will be the topic of conversation.
So you don't watch Letterman, I take it.
I do, I know how treated O'reilly, but McCain will not be walking into an interview that will be anything but sunshine and bullshit. He announced his campaign on letterman and that kind of cordiality is what he will get tonight you can bank on that.
Here's the problem with that scenario: Letterman has not been savaging McCain because he wants Obama to win, as I'm sure you know. McCain was a dick and lied through his teeth to Letterman. Not McCain's campaign, McCain personally.
And it wasn't even that he lied about wanting to go on another show. It was that he spent the night in New York after announcing he would be heading to Washington straightaway.
I don't expect him to call him a lying shit to his face, but I do not expect him to make McCain in any way comfortable. Although my favorite idea is still that there's an emergency and he gets a replacement host (and it's Keith Olbermann), and the emergency he and Paul attend to is getting a hot dog or something.
(pro-tip: there's never any pro-economy reason to cut taxes on the poor; we do it only because it's "fair" and because it's easier to sell the tax-cuts to the public)
Protip: Yes there is.
Pro Explanation: Externalities. When poor people can't pay for shit, they externalize their costs onto everyone else. increasing deadweight loss which increases the aggregate costs to society for those necessary services[and everyones taxes], for those who are able to afford it.
Don't the poor barely pay taxes anyway?
Yep. Some don't pay any --like myself-- because they earn so little. I can't wait for the day that I actually pay more in taxes than I earn, though. For two reasons. One: I'll be making bank. Two: "With taxes I pay for civilization, and it is quite the bargain."
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
(pro-tip: there's never any pro-economy reason to cut taxes on the poor; we do it only because it's "fair" and because it's easier to sell the tax-cuts to the public)
Protip: Yes there is.
Pro Explanation: Externalities. When poor people can't pay for shit, they externalize their costs onto everyone else. increasing deadweight loss which increases the aggregate costs to society for those necessary services[and everyones taxes], for those who are able to afford it.
Don't the poor barely pay taxes anyway?
Yep. Some don't pay any --like myself-- because they earn so little. I can't wait for the day that I actually pay more in taxes than I earn, though. For two reasons. One: I'll be making bank. Two: "With taxes I pay for civilization, and it is quite the bargain."
Are you counting payroll taxes? Because the poor definitely pay those.
tsmvengy on
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
(pro-tip: there's never any pro-economy reason to cut taxes on the poor; we do it only because it's "fair" and because it's easier to sell the tax-cuts to the public)
Protip: Yes there is.
Pro Explanation: Externalities. When poor people can't pay for shit, they externalize their costs onto everyone else. increasing deadweight loss which increases the aggregate costs to society for those necessary services[and everyones taxes], for those who are able to afford it.
Don't the poor barely pay taxes anyway?
Yep. Some don't pay any --like myself-- because they earn so little. I can't wait for the day that I actually pay more in taxes than I earn, though. For two reasons. One: I'll be making bank. Two: "With taxes I pay for civilization, and it is quite the bargain."
Are you counting payroll taxes? Because the poor definitely pay those.
And then you get it refunded come April. At least on the Federal level. I always wind up owing the State like two bucks or something, though.
HORTON: We’ve got a lot of finger-pointing going on within the camp, and I’d say there’s a pretty broad agreement amongst a number of the senior-most advisors to McCain that the Palin pick is worse than disappointing. It’s a total disaster, as one describes to me. And there is a sort of blame game going on there. […]
I would say the anger and irritation between a number of the senior people in the McCain camp and Bill Kristol is become really acute. … They view this man as the guy who gave them this albatross, Sarah Palin. I think there’s a lot of real anger about it. There’s also recognition that it’s too late to do anything.
Horton said neoconservatives are “now just proceeding to develop Palin as their candidate, as somebody they want to bring up in 2012, as the neo-con favored Republican.” Last month, a former Republican White House official, who now works at the American Enterprise Institute, said, “She’s bright and she’s a blank page. She’s going places and it’s worth going there with her.”
HORTON: We’ve got a lot of finger-pointing going on within the camp, and I’d say there’s a pretty broad agreement amongst a number of the senior-most advisors to McCain that the Palin pick is worse than disappointing. It’s a total disaster, as one describes to me. And there is a sort of blame game going on there. […]
I would say the anger and irritation between a number of the senior people in the McCain camp and Bill Kristol is become really acute. … They view this man as the guy who gave them this albatross, Sarah Palin. I think there’s a lot of real anger about it. There’s also recognition that it’s too late to do anything.
Horton said neoconservatives are “now just proceeding to develop Palin as their candidate, as somebody they want to bring up in 2012, as the neo-con favored Republican.†Last month, a former Republican White House official, who now works at the American Enterprise Institute, said, “She’s bright and she’s a blank page. She’s going places and it’s worth going there with her.â€
Well, he's half right. She's definitely blank.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
During an afternoon taping of "Late Night with David Letterman," McCain said he had not yet spoken to Wurzelbacher, and apologized for the press attention he had received.
"Joe, if you're watching, I'm sorry," McCain said.
So if Letterman really grilled McCain tonight, we'd know. Watching Leno for Biden.
Also:
Wurzelbacher said a McCain campaign official contacted him several days before the debate to ask him to appear with the candidate at a Toledo rally scheduled for Sunday.
Didn't the McCain camp say they didn't even KNOW Joe was going to be brought up, and his phone was busy during the debate? Yeeeeeeeeah.
(pro-tip: there's never any pro-economy reason to cut taxes on the poor; we do it only because it's "fair" and because it's easier to sell the tax-cuts to the public)
Protip: Yes there is.
Pro Explanation: Externalities. When poor people can't pay for shit, they externalize their costs onto everyone else. increasing deadweight loss which increases the aggregate costs to society for those necessary services[and everyones taxes], for those who are able to afford it.
Don't the poor barely pay taxes anyway?
Yep. Some don't pay any --like myself-- because they earn so little. I can't wait for the day that I actually pay more in taxes than I earn, though. For two reasons. One: I'll be making bank. Two: "With taxes I pay for civilization, and it is quite the bargain."
Are you counting payroll taxes? Because the poor definitely pay those.
And then you get it refunded come April. At least on the Federal level. I always wind up owing the State like two bucks or something, though.
Medicare & Social Security deductions do not get refunded.
(pro-tip: there's never any pro-economy reason to cut taxes on the poor; we do it only because it's "fair" and because it's easier to sell the tax-cuts to the public)
Protip: Yes there is.
Pro Explanation: Externalities. When poor people can't pay for shit, they externalize their costs onto everyone else. increasing deadweight loss which increases the aggregate costs to society for those necessary services[and everyones taxes], for those who are able to afford it.
Don't the poor barely pay taxes anyway?
Payroll taxes, ~15% flat rate to 96k. You pay them and they fund the majority of funding that the U.S. govt gets. But since half of the tax "comes from" the corporation, people get to say that the poor don't pay a lot of taxes.
And that's leaving aside there's preciously little in the way of actual proof that people are nearly as concerned about their actual marginal tax rate as conservative pundits like to pretend.
People are concerned about the amount of money the pay to the government, yes. And the more they pay, the more concerned they are.
This is getting pretty tangential, but I meant people aren't concerned about their marginal tax rate in the sense that it doesn't actually impact the economy nearly as much as is claimed (as in, if you tax the rich an extra 5% their consumption, future earnings, and economic activity are almost entirely unaffected). So there really isn't much of a downside at all to Obama's plan to increase the tax rate on the wealthiest 2 odd percent of the population.
As to the point you were making, I really can't say I think people should care, at least not to the extent where it override a pragmatic analysis of the situation and the options open to us. If 2% of the population is a bit more adversely effected (the two percent who have the most to gain from a smoothly functioning government and a flourishing economy) and the trade off is 98% are immediately better off, that's a well functioning government. All things in moderation and so on, but we are so amazingly far from abusing that principle, both in historical and on objective terms, that for all intents and purposes we can increase the tax rate on the wealthiest by pretty much any politically possible amount and everyone woudl ultimately be better off.
(pro-tip: there's never any pro-economy reason to cut taxes on the poor; we do it only because it's "fair" and because it's easier to sell the tax-cuts to the public)
Protip: Yes there is.
Pro Explanation: Externalities. When poor people can't pay for shit, they externalize their costs onto everyone else. increasing deadweight loss which increases the aggregate costs to society for those necessary services[and everyones taxes], for those who are able to afford it.
Well, true to a point. You basically want taxes on the lower class to be low enough that they can afford as much as possible, but non-zero so they have some sort of mindshare buy-in to the concept of taxes. Even so, the poor are still going to be using social programs, so trying to eliminate that is futile. At any rate, when you find your optimal tax rate for the po' folks, you pretty much leave it there. You don't fuck around with it to game the system in the same way you do with the middle and upper class, because there's not enough money there to make a difference as regards supply and demand. Which was the point I was trying to get at.
Reasonable assertion. I remove my previous objection.
Y'know, Lou Dobbs would be awesome if he weren't fucking insane. A couple nights ago he was "ACORN" this and "ACORN" that, and...fuck.
Campbell Brown, now... (And I'm not just saying she's awesome because she's lovely.)
Lou Dobbs has been a xenophobic fuckstick for as long as I remember. The first time I took a good look at him was when he totally butchered and lied about US income statistics.
Every time I've briefly watched his show during this election season has been painful.
During an afternoon taping of "Late Night with David Letterman," McCain said he had not yet spoken to Wurzelbacher, and apologized for the press attention he had received.
"Joe, if you're watching, I'm sorry," McCain said.
So if Letterman really grilled McCain tonight, we'd know. Watching Leno for Biden.
Also:
Wurzelbacher said a McCain campaign official contacted him several days before the debate to ask him to appear with the candidate at a Toledo rally scheduled for Sunday.
Didn't the McCain camp say they didn't even KNOW Joe was going to be brought up, and his phone was busy during the debate? Yeeeeeeeeah.
Y'know, Lou Dobbs would be awesome if he weren't fucking insane. A couple nights ago he was "ACORN" this and "ACORN" that, and...fuck.
Campbell Brown, now... (And I'm not just saying she's awesome because she's lovely.)
Lou Dobbs has been a xenophobic fuckstick for as long as I remember. The first time I took a good look at him was when he totally butchered and lied about US income statistics.
Every time I've briefly watched his show during this election season has been painful.
Bill Maher is Larry King's guest tonight, for those here who care. Not trying to start up the love/hate Maher debate again, just putting it out there for those interested.
mxmarks on
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Y'know, Lou Dobbs would be awesome if he weren't fucking insane. A couple nights ago he was "ACORN" this and "ACORN" that, and...fuck.
Campbell Brown, now... (And I'm not just saying she's awesome because she's lovely.)
Lou Dobbs has been a xenophobic fuckstick for as long as I remember. The first time I took a good look at him was when he totally butchered and lied about US income statistics.
Every time I've briefly watched his show during this election season has been painful.
Posts
I do, I know how treated O'reilly, but McCain will not be walking into an interview that will be anything but sunshine and bullshit. He announced his campaign on letterman and that kind of cordiality is what he will get tonight you can bank on that.
pleasepaypreacher.net
See my post above.
That's pretty much what I said - we should increase their taxes not because it won't be painless or because it has an actual economic benefit, but because we need that revenue to do other things.
People are concerned about the amount of money the pay to the government, yes. And the more they pay, the more concerned they are.
I seriously doubt this
I figured Letterman would totally shock him and call him out - because thats what he does. If he decides to write you off, he doesn't care WHAT you think, or what happens, he sends you off with a bang. I know McCain is different than Paris Hilton - but he had agreed to not discuss prison with her prior to the interview, and then totally did it anyway. He just doesn't care.
But truthfully, his show has long since been recorded and edited for tonight. If there was anything great, we'd have heard about it by now.
Don't the poor barely pay taxes anyway?
pleasepaypreacher.net
Here's the problem with that scenario: Letterman has not been savaging McCain because he wants Obama to win, as I'm sure you know. McCain was a dick and lied through his teeth to Letterman. Not McCain's campaign, McCain personally.
And it wasn't even that he lied about wanting to go on another show. It was that he spent the night in New York after announcing he would be heading to Washington straightaway.
I don't expect him to call him a lying shit to his face, but I do not expect him to make McCain in any way comfortable. Although my favorite idea is still that there's an emergency and he gets a replacement host (and it's Keith Olbermann), and the emergency he and Paul attend to is getting a hot dog or something.
Yep. Some don't pay any --like myself-- because they earn so little. I can't wait for the day that I actually pay more in taxes than I earn, though. For two reasons. One: I'll be making bank. Two: "With taxes I pay for civilization, and it is quite the bargain."
...man, I can hear the dialogue in my head.
...it's...kind of hot. :shock:
:winky:
Are you counting payroll taxes? Because the poor definitely pay those.
Watch Letterman.
S'what I'm doing.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
And then you get it refunded come April. At least on the Federal level. I always wind up owing the State like two bucks or something, though.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z3i6YHyB6k
Well, he's half right. She's definitely blank.
And do we have something similar in Canada?
I thought you just payed income tax on income.
So if Letterman really grilled McCain tonight, we'd know. Watching Leno for Biden.
Also:
Didn't the McCain camp say they didn't even KNOW Joe was going to be brought up, and his phone was busy during the debate? Yeeeeeeeeah.
All this comes from http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gJsPHiQlgYvAsrHz9mvHJlezQJLwD93RSUA00
Medicare & Social Security deductions do not get refunded.
Payroll taxes, ~15% flat rate to 96k. You pay them and they fund the majority of funding that the U.S. govt gets. But since half of the tax "comes from" the corporation, people get to say that the poor don't pay a lot of taxes.
This is getting pretty tangential, but I meant people aren't concerned about their marginal tax rate in the sense that it doesn't actually impact the economy nearly as much as is claimed (as in, if you tax the rich an extra 5% their consumption, future earnings, and economic activity are almost entirely unaffected). So there really isn't much of a downside at all to Obama's plan to increase the tax rate on the wealthiest 2 odd percent of the population.
As to the point you were making, I really can't say I think people should care, at least not to the extent where it override a pragmatic analysis of the situation and the options open to us. If 2% of the population is a bit more adversely effected (the two percent who have the most to gain from a smoothly functioning government and a flourishing economy) and the trade off is 98% are immediately better off, that's a well functioning government. All things in moderation and so on, but we are so amazingly far from abusing that principle, both in historical and on objective terms, that for all intents and purposes we can increase the tax rate on the wealthiest by pretty much any politically possible amount and everyone woudl ultimately be better off.
Reasonable assertion. I remove my previous objection.
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
There's no way it doesn't involve a tire swing and utter shrieking from all parties involved.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Lou Dobbs has been a xenophobic fuckstick for as long as I remember. The first time I took a good look at him was when he totally butchered and lied about US income statistics.
Every time I've briefly watched his show during this election season has been painful.
Damn you, Buster Bluth. That's my crazy lovin' you're stealing.
You can all suck my nostradamus cock now that letterman didn't do shit to him.
pleasepaypreacher.net
He hates him some Mexicans.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Leprosy. In this country.
Incredible.
But seriously Obama hangs around with terrorist america and I stand by that.
Letterman: Of course he does you're a patriot thank you senator.
pleasepaypreacher.net
It actually made me laugh. I needed to close my eyes and remind myself McCain is an asshole.
Letterman straight up asks what happened. Then goes on to say he was excited to allow McCain to go save the day, and then felt like an idiot.
McCain keeps trying to interrupt Letterman's rant (which the crowd loved), and does an insane amount of crazy eyebrow stuff.
McCain just goes "Can I answer now, Dave?"
Dave says "Please."
McCain says "I screwed up."
Wild applause.
Clip over.
That's her husband?
I stand by my proposed 'scene' 100%, except that he probably does all the shrieking.
Edit: Also, if he did take her name, he'd be Buster Brown.
...sorry.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Oh snap.. consider me another democrat for McCain. Fuck the economy, making yourself slapstick trumps domestic policy.
Librarians harbor a terrible secret. Find it.