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(Dark, Mighty, New) Avengers Assemble! Long Live the Dark Reign

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Moonstone in Thunderbolts was good, because she was kind of turning into a better version of Emma Frost in her reformation.

    Then the Avengers/Thunderbolts mini series basically had her be used up/almost killed with neither side really caring (Zemo was all "it's for the greater good" the Avengers were all "She's Moonstone, big deal" save for Clint), and then she went back to being manipulative bad girl from the beginning of the Thunderbolts run.

    TexiKen on
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Well, since I only know of her as a cold-hearted bitch and Songbird as the one who actually wants to reform, I'm all for dropping Karla as quickly as possible. I've been reading her "history" (that is, someone on Reed's forum at Jinxworld has posted a shitload of scans of her appearances through the years) and... Yeah. Fuck her.

    Crimsondude on
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    people smack talking mighty avengers clearly hate fun

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I just don't like Hank Pym as the new Wasp. As a matter of fact, I don't really care too much about Hank Pym in general. I mean, he guesses he wants to be the team leader; and is the Hulk on the team now or what, because he's all over the fucking place.

    NA has to be my favorite thus far, with DA coming in a close second. I love the fact that the good guys are on the run and have to remain underground. It's like they stretched out Civil War with this whole Dark Reign thing.

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I can't stand Hank Pym. He's never been an interesting, let alone great, character and frankly he's just a arrogant fuck-up.

    Crimsondude on
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    TeaSpoonTeaSpoon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's funny, I know Slott wants to badassify Hank Pym what with everyone giving him a collective blowjob and all, but Pym is not the slightest bit sympathetic in that book. He's arrogant and oafish.

    It's like Slott can't bring himself to do it. That the idea of a sympathetic Hank Pym is so ludicrous that he's unconsciously sabotaging his own efforts.

    TeaSpoon on
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Slott's She-Hulk was amusing as hell. MA just blew. In retrospect, so did much of Avengers: the Initiative.

    Crimsondude on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I doubt Slott meant to redeem Pym in the very first arc. Hell, the Might Avengers are barely a team at this point.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I really, really liked Iron Man's "Wow. thank you for making my point for me"

    Fencingsax on
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    VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Is Avengers: Initiative finished? If so, what was the last issue?

    Virral on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Virral wrote: »
    Is Avengers: Initiative finished? If so, what was the last issue?

    It isn't.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I doubt Slott meant to redeem Pym in the very first arc. Hell, the Might Avengers are barely a team at this point.
    Yeah I somehow get the feeling people are missing the point. I mean, all the characters involved were fully aware that Hank pretty much sucks. The inherent absurdity of him trying to lead a team of people, all of which have a better track record than him, is exactly what makes it so fun to read.

    But as usual, comics are serious business so no one got it.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    No no, that's not quite right.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Oh, well, continue crying about Hank Pym I guess.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    He's busy crying about himself though. That's why we don't like him.

    And why hasn't anyone told him that his wife is the person who caused all this shit to begin with?

    Her blabbering about almost getting pregnant with Clint led to Wanda going crazy, leading to no more mutants, to the SHRA to the Skrulls having a decent shot at destroying the world. Oh wait, he has to go bitch at Tony. Douche.

    TexiKen on
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    Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Iroh wrote: »
    Oh, well, continue crying about Hank Pym I guess.

    Well, then I guess I have to like him then.

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
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    VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Virral wrote: »
    Is Avengers: Initiative finished? If so, what was the last issue?

    It isn't.

    Ok, that's good. I just realised it had been a long time since I remembered anyone talking about it, and I wondered if it had been replaced with one of the new DR books.

    Virral on
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I doubt Slott meant to redeem Pym in the very first arc. Hell, the Might Avengers are barely a team at this point.

    No. Slott really is out to redeem Pym.
    Virral wrote: »
    Virral wrote: »
    Is Avengers: Initiative finished? If so, what was the last issue?

    It isn't.

    Ok, that's good. I just realised it had been a long time since I remembered anyone talking about it, and I wondered if it had been replaced with one of the new DR books.

    It may become interesting when the June issue comes out (#25), and the staff has become Taskmaster and The Hood. But my guess is that it won't be.

    Crimsondude on
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Iroh you the man

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I doubt Slott meant to redeem Pym in the very first arc. Hell, the Might Avengers are barely a team at this point.

    No. Slott really is out to redeem Pym.

    I think he meant redeem him in one fell swoop, as opposed to redeem him at all. It would actually be quite refreshing to see a character develop and change over time, when usually in comics they just suddenly start acting differently to suit the whims of the current writer.

    Virral on
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, because the end where everyone on Earth was kissing his ass wasn't a sudden and immediate turnaround.

    Crimsondude on
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    IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, because the end where everyone on Earth was kissing his ass wasn't a sudden and immediate turnaround.
    Norman Osborn basically has power over all super-human affairs for killing one skrull, and you're choosing to whine about some people saying thanks to Hank Pym on TV for helping to save the world?

    It's fine if you just don't like the guy, but that doesn't make it a shitty book.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I honestly don't understand the Pym hate. Maybe it's because I basically ignored the Avengers in the 90s. At any rate, I've liked MA so far, and if anything Tony comes off as a douchebag more than Hank.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
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    VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Yeah, because the end where everyone on Earth was kissing his ass wasn't a sudden and immediate turnaround.

    I wouldn't know mate, I haven't read it. I don't see how that changes the fact that it would be a refreshing change of pace to see some actual character development... it just means maybe we won't find it here!

    X-Men Legacy might be a good example, having just read the first two trades I'm very impressed by how Carey has shown Charles reevaluating his life and some of the major decisions he made.

    Virral on
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    FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    wwtMask wrote: »
    I honestly don't understand the Pym hate. Maybe it's because I basically ignored the Avengers in the 90s. At any rate, I've liked MA so far, and if anything Tony comes off as a douchebag more than Hank.

    Slott's trying to make Tony come off as a douchebag though. It's almost like a first person bias in the story, because Slott has a huge boner for Hank.

    And the whole Loki thing annoyed me too. I mean,
    It made sense that it wasn't her, just because there was no preamble. It was just all, "Hey, Wanda's back, okay?". I like the Loki manipulating people aspect of it, but I want to know what the deal with Wanda is, you know?

    And I think the dialogue feels stiff. And I don't see the point for Cassie to be on the team when Hank can grow/shrink and be all, "Science powers, activate!". But, I digress, this isn't a new opinion.

    Hank and US Agent are the worst parts of the book, definitely.

    Oh, and one last thing that's been bothering me. Why did Spider-Woman get the whole awkward "You were the face on the invasion, we don't like you and probably can't trust you!" when Hank Pym was a huge part of that too? Everyone felt sorry for him because Jan died, and she got the shit end of the deal. It seems inconsistent.

    Edit: Black-Bolt five, Virral. Legacy is great! The current arc is to my liking, though I think it's ending soon. :(

    Faynor on
    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
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    IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Faynor wrote: »
    Oh, and one last thing that's been bothering me. Why did Spider-Woman get the whole awkward "You were the face on the invasion, we don't like you and probably can't trust you!" when Hank Pym was a huge part of that too? Everyone felt sorry for him because Jan died, and she got the shit end of the deal. It seems inconsistent.
    Different writers for one, so there's bound to be some of that. That said, my understanding of Jessica Drew is that she's never been particularly trusted, even before SI ever happened.

    Iroh on
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Being a triple agent will do that to one's reputation.

    I just hate Pym. Always have. So I'm not buying the arc in MA. Plus it just didn't appeal to me as actually being interesting or good or, I don't know, it just wasn't something worth caring about.

    Crimsondude on
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    OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Faynor wrote: »
    It made sense that it wasn't her, just because there was no preamble. It was just all, "Hey, Wanda's back, okay?". I like the Loki manipulating people aspect of it, but I want to know what the deal with Wanda is, you know?

    And I think the dialogue feels stiff. And I don't see the point for Cassie to be on the team when Hank can grow/shrink and be all, "Science powers, activate!". But, I digress, this isn't a new opinion.
    I think Cassie's point for being on the team is that 'Wanda' is there. This is the woman who went nuts and took her dad's life. You don't think she's going to want to stick around and keep an eye on her?

    Owenashi on
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    psycojesterpsycojester Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So basically the only reason you can think of is
    Loki is bad at recognizing redundancy in a teams makeup

    psycojester on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Having two size-changing heroes on the team is pretty common. Ant-Man and the Wasp were on the very first iteration of the roster, after all.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's Drama!

    Crimsondude on
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    faynor you shut your mouth about USAgent right now

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    This is something we shall never agree on. You can bash characters that I like, such as Thor or Black Widow or Black Bolt.

    Oh wait, you can't, because they're actually good characters. :P

    Send him back to Canada.

    Faynor on
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    the only thing Black Widow ever did worthwhile was be on The Champions

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    the only thing Black Widow ever did worthwhile was be on The Champions

    Well, to be fair, she wouldn't be in my top 3. I just like her as Bucky's partner. Though the one that would make it into my Top 3 probably gives you more ammo, since it's Jean Grey.

    Faynor on
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    oh dear

    Jean Grey

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Jean Grey

    *glares* What about her?

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
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    FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    She's awesome, okay? Telekinesis and Telepathy are the coolest powers ever. And she's the embodiment of life!

    PhoenixAoA.jpg

    Plus her costumes always rock.

    Faynor on
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    Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    . . . and sexiness.

    Faynor, I have never met you, nor do I know you as a person, but I approve of your beliefs and would happily subscribe to your newsletter.

    Witch_Hunter_84 on
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Jean Grey is the only character to have no personality or character traits at all other than dying and coming back to life and turning evil once. Seriously, name one good Jean Grey moment that is not tied into dying or being evil. Name one thing she ever did worthwhile.

    She is the superhero equivalent of watching paint dry.

    The Lovely Bastard on
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