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Dwarf Fortress: When you wake up in the morning, consider torture.

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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Arrath wrote: »
    Use him to test your new moat.

    He's my only broker, clerk, and a legendary miner, so that isn't a very good option.

    However, since it's useless anyway, I think I can turn off armormaking on all of my dwarves meaning he won't have anyone to throw in jail. He'll just have to deal with the bad thoughts.

    Or if I'm lucky a caravan with some iron will come by.


    Anyway, the moat is working perfectly. I am in the process of constructing some fortifications to protect my main entrance.

    I am expanding my farming to include cave wheat and pig tails.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Arrath wrote: »
    However, since it's useless anyway, I think I can turn off armormaking on all of my dwarves meaning he won't have anyone to throw in jail. He'll just have to deal with the bad thoughts.

    Or if I'm lucky a caravan with some iron will come by.

    Dude, he'll just throw someone randomly in jail. I had my Legendary Wrestler chained to a post for nearly 3 months for apparently not making a shoe. She had a baby, too.

    Jintor on
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    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I need to get a new "starting" technique... I typically, for some reason, end up digging a single tunnel into the side of the nearest mountain... and starting everything that way. Are there any "more ideal" ways to format your fortress? Do most people dig down? Do you usually look for a mountain and start there, or do you just dig down into the ground even from the middle of a field?

    Also... I've never been attacked... but it seems like defending your fortress would be easy if you just had a single entrance with a door. Do enemies break down doors? Can you easilly take them down with a bottle-neck entrance? Like I said earlier, I haven't progressed very far without getting frusterated with my lack of innovative layouts and typically end up restarting... so I probably haven't gotten far enough to figure these problems out for myself.

    GPIA7R on
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    AlethiometerAlethiometer Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Nothing wrong with restarting. I do it even on successful fortresses, if I don't like how the work flow is going. Remember, there's no ultimate goal so play it how you want.

    Yes, trolls do break down doors and it is generally unwise to rely on static constructions for your defence. If you want to defend a place without having a standing army, then a buttload of traps is a good start. That won't keep out thieves, though.

    I have huge trouble with starting techniques. My general plan is this: Farms->Kitchens->Barracks->Indoor Workshops-> and then I begin designing the real fortress once the temp operation is in place.

    Alethiometer on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Vic wrote: »
    I find this the easiest way to do things too.

    If I wanted my army to practice with silver swords, for example, I would manufacture silver swords only until I was sure all guards were equipped with one each. Then when they reach a sufficiently high level I would just go into the stockpiles screen and forbid all silver swords, making the guards run off to fetch whatever new swords I have made for them.

    Everyone should make sure they us forbid, and not dump. Because when an equipped item is tagged for dumping, it gets thrown in the garbage pit, and you can never touch it again. It might be a bug, dwarves aren't supposed to "own" armor but the game might still consider them the user so no one will touch it.

    Only reason this is a problem is if you had intentions of melting the old gear down.

    xzzy on
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    Random832Random832 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    xzzy wrote: »
    Vic wrote: »
    I find this the easiest way to do things too.

    If I wanted my army to practice with silver swords, for example, I would manufacture silver swords only until I was sure all guards were equipped with one each. Then when they reach a sufficiently high level I would just go into the stockpiles screen and forbid all silver swords, making the guards run off to fetch whatever new swords I have made for them.

    Everyone should make sure they us forbid, and not dump. Because when an equipped item is tagged for dumping, it gets thrown in the garbage pit, and you can never touch it again. It might be a bug, dwarves aren't supposed to "own" armor but the game might still consider them the user so no one will touch it.

    Only reason this is a problem is if you had intentions of melting the old gear down.

    Dumped items are set to forbid once they're in the garbage pit; you can unforbid them normally.

    Random832 on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Random832 wrote: »
    xzzy wrote: »
    Vic wrote: »
    I find this the easiest way to do things too.

    If I wanted my army to practice with silver swords, for example, I would manufacture silver swords only until I was sure all guards were equipped with one each. Then when they reach a sufficiently high level I would just go into the stockpiles screen and forbid all silver swords, making the guards run off to fetch whatever new swords I have made for them.

    Everyone should make sure they us forbid, and not dump. Because when an equipped item is tagged for dumping, it gets thrown in the garbage pit, and you can never touch it again. It might be a bug, dwarves aren't supposed to "own" armor but the game might still consider them the user so no one will touch it.

    Only reason this is a problem is if you had intentions of melting the old gear down.

    Dumped items are set to forbid once they're in the garbage pit; you can unforbid them normally.

    Bzzt, nope. Even if they're un-forbidden dwarves won't touch it.

    xzzy on
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    hmxmosshmxmoss Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Like I said earlier, I haven't progressed very far without getting frusterated with my lack of innovative layouts and typically end up restarting... so I probably haven't gotten far enough to figure these problems out for myself.

    Then try changing how you play. Instead of, perhaps, just digging in the nearest mountainside or hole in the ground, setting up temporary stockpiles and workshops, farming, military and THEN dealing with aesthetics, do it in reverse (or some other scrambled up order).

    Focus on aesthetics first. Bring just enough food for a year, and don't start farming until next year. Make it hard on your dwarves, such that some die, but as long as they make things pretty and pleasing, they're doing their job. :D

    hmxmoss on
    burning.jpg
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    All my fortress entrances tend to be laid out the same. It's not until 10 or more years into the game that I start experimenting with architecture, adjusting this or that to try a new trap or do something neat with the terrain. Sometimes the experimenting results in a design I really like and I build my next fort around it.

    After my most recent fort, I will say I think I'm done with chasms. Goddamn cave spiders leave silk all the fuck over the place, I had 6000 webs lingering around at one point.

    xzzy on
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    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    hmxmoss wrote: »
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Like I said earlier, I haven't progressed very far without getting frusterated with my lack of innovative layouts and typically end up restarting... so I probably haven't gotten far enough to figure these problems out for myself.

    Then try changing how you play. Instead of, perhaps, just digging in the nearest mountainside or hole in the ground, setting up temporary stockpiles and workshops, farming, military and THEN dealing with aesthetics, do it in reverse (or some other scrambled up order).

    Focus on aesthetics first. Bring just enough food for a year, and don't start farming until next year. Make it hard on your dwarves, such that some die, but as long as they make things pretty and pleasing, they're doing their job. :D

    I thought there were reprocussions for staying outside? Like for food/drinks going bad and rain being bad for them.... ?

    GPIA7R on
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Is there a better way melt everything in a stockpile than manually yet?


    GPIA7R wrote: »
    I need to get a new "starting" technique... I typically, for some reason, end up digging a single tunnel into the side of the nearest mountain... and starting everything that way. Are there any "more ideal" ways to format your fortress? Do most people dig down? Do you usually look for a mountain and start there, or do you just dig down into the ground even from the middle of a field?

    I like digging into the side of a mountain / cliff to but it all depends on the terrain. There are a couple things I use to decide where to start.

    1) Defensibility.
    Getting attacked will help you learn about this :) Basically look for and/or carve a space that gives your defenders tactical advantage.

    2) Farmable dirt layers / likely location for my farm.
    I'm too lazy and/or in a hurry to irrigate, so this is important. I like to keep the farm close to the food stockpile, which is in turn close to the dining hall and the kitchen, which is in turn close to the butcher, which is in turn close to the tannery, leatherworks, and bone/leather/shell stockpiles etc etc... I design my forts to be as efficient as possible with quick and easy access to sections for any dwarf who needs to get somewhere. Special attention is paid to placing things close to related work areas & stockpiles - so everything is linked in a giant, gorgeous, efficient web/chain. Because of this, determining where the farm will be and working backwards from there can impact where I place the front door.
    This is sometimes hard if you aren't 100% sure where you have soil and where you have rock.

    3) Magma location.
    Similar to above (hip bone is connected to the Iron Bar and Armor Stockpiles etc etc), but less focus because you can channel out a path for the magma to flow anywhere. It moves slow though, so this is a consideration.

    4) Trade depot consideration.
    This relates to the defense of your base. I like my defenses to include covering the trade depot in case of an attack during a trade transaction. Valuable goods, allied traders, and most importantly your own broker could be at risk. Because of this I have been using a 5-wide entry tunnel that has a side room for the Depot. At the end of this entry tunnel is a set of doors that lead down to the fortress proper. (Trade Depot is connected to the Finished Goods (AKA stonecrafts to trade) stockpile etc)

    5) Cleanup operations consideration.
    Dead invaders drop delicious loot. I like to have a method to acquire it neatly, easily, and quickly so that my mans don't get bogged down hauling goblin socks for the rest of their lives and/or leave the front hall a goddam mess. The two facets to doing this well are A) Cleanup access and B) intelligently answering "where is the killzone?" when planning your defense for both traps and military placement.

    Bottlenecking is a good tactic but remember it will affect your dwarves too.

    As mentioned, enemy siege units (like trolls) can indeed break down doors, carved fortifications, and other dwarf-made structures (but not standard walls - neither basic nor crafted).

    fadingathedges on
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    MaydayMayday Cutting edge goblin tech Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Is there a better way melt everything in a stockpile than manually yet?

    d-b-m ??

    Mayday on
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    What is d-b-m?

    fadingathedges on
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    Random832Random832 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    What is d-b-m?

    Press the keys and find out? d-b-f sets all stuff in an area to forbid, so I assume d-b-m does the same to melt. (d)esignate, then maybe the b stands for "bulk"?

    Random832 on
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    oooooooo nice

    I'm at work so I can't test it now.

    Is that a permanent area designation (like everything ever put in that space will get melted) or just a melt-everything-currently-in-this area? I'm guessing the latter since it's [d]. That's still good.

    Will it find things in bins I hope, or just try to melt the bins?

    fadingathedges on
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    MaydayMayday Cutting edge goblin tech Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    It will find things in bins.

    It is not a permanent designation.

    Mayday on
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    hmxmosshmxmoss Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    hmxmoss wrote: »
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Like I said earlier, I haven't progressed very far without getting frusterated with my lack of innovative layouts and typically end up restarting... so I probably haven't gotten far enough to figure these problems out for myself.

    Then try changing how you play. Instead of, perhaps, just digging in the nearest mountainside or hole in the ground, setting up temporary stockpiles and workshops, farming, military and THEN dealing with aesthetics, do it in reverse (or some other scrambled up order).

    Focus on aesthetics first. Bring just enough food for a year, and don't start farming until next year. Make it hard on your dwarves, such that some die, but as long as they make things pretty and pleasing, they're doing their job. :D

    I thought there were reprocussions for staying outside? Like for food/drinks going bad and rain being bad for them.... ?

    Not sure about rain... and I thought that as long as you got food/drink on a stockpile, it would be okay, but I may be wrong there.

    Even so.... CHALLENGE!!! :D (Or a bunch of dead dwarves...)

    hmxmoss on
    burning.jpg
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    CorakCorak Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    1) I have not seen any water freezing on the map. Have not been paying attention? Are some winters colder fan others? I'm in a moderate climate, afaik.

    2) My main problem that I may have is actually that the moats as they are now are a z-level below the river, so I put 50/50 odds that, instead of continuing to flow through the tunnels, the water will decide to start overflowing my moats and flooding the outside of my fortress. If this happens I'm going to have to build some walls to raise the moats up even with the river.

    I believe water only freezes in temperate and colder areas. Anything warmer than that you'll have flowing water year round.

    As for your moats, although I am hardly an expert with the water pressure issue, one thing I find that helps, if possible, is to have the moats reconnect with the river. Like, make a big "U" shape, so the water flows out of the river, into the moat, and then back into the river further downstream. It will fill with water, but may not flood.

    Corak on
    I live!
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Corak wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    1) I have not seen any water freezing on the map. Have not been paying attention? Are some winters colder fan others? I'm in a moderate climate, afaik.

    2) My main problem that I may have is actually that the moats as they are now are a z-level below the river, so I put 50/50 odds that, instead of continuing to flow through the tunnels, the water will decide to start overflowing my moats and flooding the outside of my fortress. If this happens I'm going to have to build some walls to raise the moats up even with the river.

    I believe water only freezes in temperate and colder areas. Anything warmer than that you'll have flowing water year round.

    As for your moats, although I am hardly an expert with the water pressure issue, one thing I find that helps, if possible, is to have the moats reconnect with the river. Like, make a big "U" shape, so the water flows out of the river, into the moat, and then back into the river further downstream. It will fill with water, but may not flood.

    What I ended up doing is sending it into a bottomless chasm. Works just as planned. And hopefully some of the stuff down there will get caught in the resulting waterfall and die.l

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    What I ended up doing is sending it into a bottomless chasm. Works just as planned. And hopefully some of the stuff down there will get caught in the resulting waterfall and die.l

    I once had a waterfall in my meeting area that drained into a nearby chasm. The intent was to both generate happy thoughts and clean off my dwarves.

    It was quite successful at generating happy thoughts, until my dwarves started having babies and those babies started growing into children. Apparently the children were too short to stand up in the flow of water, and every so often one of them would wash away into the chasm.

    I quickly stopped the waterfall, and blocked off the chasm with grates. Dwarves were much happier then. Still dirty (worse, dirty and wet), but happier.

    xzzy on
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    xzzy wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    What I ended up doing is sending it into a bottomless chasm. Works just as planned. And hopefully some of the stuff down there will get caught in the resulting waterfall and die.l

    I once had a waterfall in my meeting area that drained into a nearby chasm. The intent was to both generate happy thoughts and clean off my dwarves.

    It was quite successful at generating happy thoughts, until my dwarves started having babies and those babies started growing into children. Apparently the children were too short to stand up in the flow of water, and every so often one of them would wash away into the chasm.

    I quickly stopped the waterfall, and blocked off the chasm with grates. Dwarves were much happier then. Still dirty (worse, dirty and wet), but happier.

    How was the water getting your dwarfs? Did you not have channels/pools for it to land it?


    edit~ If I'm picturing it right, couldn't you have just grated the water exit areas to keep your dwarfs safe without changing the waterflow?

    fadingathedges on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    xzzy wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    What I ended up doing is sending it into a bottomless chasm. Works just as planned. And hopefully some of the stuff down there will get caught in the resulting waterfall and die.l

    I once had a waterfall in my meeting area that drained into a nearby chasm. The intent was to both generate happy thoughts and clean off my dwarves.

    It was quite successful at generating happy thoughts, until my dwarves started having babies and those babies started growing into children. Apparently the children were too short to stand up in the flow of water, and every so often one of them would wash away into the chasm.

    I quickly stopped the waterfall, and blocked off the chasm with grates. Dwarves were much happier then. Still dirty (worse, dirty and wet), but happier.

    How was the water getting your dwarfs? Did you not have channels/pools for it to land it?


    edit~ If I'm picturing it right, couldn't you have just grated the water exit areas to keep your dwarfs safe without changing the waterflow?

    Yep, that's what I did. I had the water falling directly on the meeting area, then let it flow naturally towards the chasm.

    My solution was to just surface over the chasm with floor grates.

    xzzy on
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    ZandraconZandracon Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm trying to look for a good spot to make a new fort, but can't seem to find any, anyone mind sharing parameters or seeds?

    Zandracon on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    My dwarves sure do seem to like to party.

    I've fully staffed my Fortress Guard finally. I have a macedwarf, a speardwarf, and two crossbow-dwarfs all basically conscripted peasants, and finally an axe dwarf who is a legendary woodcutter.

    I've built a pair of pillboxes to guard my depot and front entrance, and am in the process of putting watch towers on top of them to guard the top of my fort. Also glass-cieling farm plot to start working some surface plants into my process.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    CorakCorak Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Also glass-cieling farm plot to start working some surface plants into my process.

    How does this work, exactly?

    Corak on
    I live!
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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Corak wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Also glass-cieling farm plot to start working some surface plants into my process.

    How does this work, exactly?

    You create a tunnel above the room, to the surface, and build glass floor tiles. Last I heard, once the area is opened up- it's considered "outside" no matter what you put over it.

    Doobh on
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    In my last fort I had a hole in the ceiling that I patched over buy building a stone floor on the level above. This returned the square below to 'indoor' status... so maybe it's tied to the materials intelligently nowadays?

    fadingathedges on
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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    In my last fort I had a hole in the ceiling that I patched over buy building a stone floor on the level above. This returned the square below to 'indoor' status... so maybe it's tied to the materials intelligently nowadays?

    Maybe. There's been some patches since I thoroughly searched the Dwarf Fortress Wiki.

    Doobh on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Dubh wrote: »
    In my last fort I had a hole in the ceiling that I patched over buy building a stone floor on the level above. This returned the square below to 'indoor' status... so maybe it's tied to the materials intelligently nowadays?

    Maybe. There's been some patches since I thoroughly searched the Dwarf Fortress Wiki.

    If I recall correctly, there was never that issue with indoors/outdoors. The state that is permanently changed is aboveground/belowground.

    jothki on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Man, my fortress is just a complete mess of inneficiency at this point. I did trade for a set of plate mail though. :)

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    For outdoor farming, I find a suitable area somewhere above my fort, dig some stairs up and up to the surface, and then use all the stone from mining out my fort to build walls. Outdoor farms are fully protected, and delicious sunberries are mine for the reaping!

    tehmarken on
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    JintorJintor Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    And vomit gets everywhere.

    But that happens in 'underground' aboveground plots as well, so I suppose I can forgive that.

    Can't wait until Army Arc. Not touching DF until then (Just can't be bothered).

    Jintor on
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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    jothki wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    In my last fort I had a hole in the ceiling that I patched over buy building a stone floor on the level above. This returned the square below to 'indoor' status... so maybe it's tied to the materials intelligently nowadays?

    Maybe. There's been some patches since I thoroughly searched the Dwarf Fortress Wiki.

    If I recall correctly, there was never that issue with indoors/outdoors. The state that is permanently changed is aboveground/belowground.

    Ahhhhh..... I must have read it wrong. That makes more sense.

    Doobh on
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    xzzy wrote: »
    Random832 wrote: »
    xzzy wrote: »
    when an equipped item is tagged for dumping, it gets thrown in the garbage pit, and you can never touch it again.

    Dumped items are set to forbid once they're in the garbage pit; you can unforbid them normally.

    Bzzt, nope. Even if they're un-forbidden dwarves won't touch it.

    I'm 100% certain that I have manually un-forbid items dumped and recovered them. I used to Dump a billion stone into one square by the mason / stonecrafters then unforbid it and they would go to town on it. Is this something that only happens to weapons/armor?

    fadingathedges on
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    xzzy wrote: »
    Random832 wrote: »
    xzzy wrote: »
    when an equipped item is tagged for dumping, it gets thrown in the garbage pit, and you can never touch it again.

    Dumped items are set to forbid once they're in the garbage pit; you can unforbid them normally.

    Bzzt, nope. Even if they're un-forbidden dwarves won't touch it.

    I'm 100% certain that I have manually un-forbid items dumped and recovered them. I used to Dump a billion stone into one square by the mason / stonecrafters then unforbid it and they would go to town on it. Is this something that only happens to weapons/armor?

    It only seems to happen when you dump armor that a dwarf is actively wearing.

    xzzy on
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    MaydayMayday Cutting edge goblin tech Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Toady One wrote:
    Core59, LOVE AND ROMANCE, (Future): Some of the dialog is likely to be an entertaining trainwreck, especially if coupled with a random poem generator (yes, that's a threat)

    I think I'm going to read through all the future dev items.

    Mayday on
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    TekDragonTekDragon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    Woops, clicked on the wrong subscribed thread.

    TekDragon on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    D:

    First the guy that got thrown into jail for not making that chain mail died of thirst.

    Then my butcher shop and kitchen (and thus the entirety of one of my main work areas) got filled with miasma.

    Then I got hit by a small goblin raiding party. They seemed determined to kill one of my cats for some reason. I sent my pair of Elite Wrestlers to get rid of them but the concentration of enemy bow fire was such that they just got cut down without much a fight. I mobilized my militia, but the first squad was apparently not capable of getting a clear line of fire from any of my fortifications, and the second squad rushed out the door without any ammo and got slaughtered. They eventually ran out of bolts and arrows and my Fortress Guard showed up and killed a couple, cause the two survivors to flee.

    Then one of my dwarves went on a tantrum and destroyed a couple of doors and got in a fight with my Captain, and is now being thrown in jail. Where he will probably die.

    D:
    :)

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    xzzyxzzy Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Do you have spare buckets? Dwarves are supposed to bring jailed dwarves water.

    xzzy on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    xzzy wrote: »
    Do you have spare buckets? Dwarves are supposed to bring jailed dwarves water.

    I do. They didn't.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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