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Whatever you do, don't use the term "niggardly" or the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" around the people who got upset. Two completely non-racist terms that people stupidly take the wrong way.
Whatever you do, don't use the term "niggardly" or the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" around the people who got upset. Two completely non-racist terms that people stupidly take the wrong way.
Racist. Why does the pot and kettle have to be black!? o_O
Dude, this whole idea of commonplace words carrying pejorative racial connotations reeks of super-sensitivity and white guilt. Of course, in certain situations, 'boy' could have a racist tone to it, but that situation would probably clearly present itself as racially charged.
Trow, I usually agree with you about 99.9% of the time. I'm afraid that this is one of those times that I don't. Like others have said the word "boy" has more then one use. I used to work in Baltimore City and had a few acquaintances of around the same age that were African American, and I referred to them as "my boys" and they referred to me the same way. I have also seen people use "boy" in a racial context before as well. When that happens, the person being offensive tends to use a lot of emphasis on that word.
Semi related question: I'm white; my son is mixed w/ black and white. Can I call him my boy? (I do regardless)
Long quote tree was long.
I don't think anyone would jump on you for calling your kid "my boy" because you're his dad. I don't think anyone would jump on you for calling your friends "my boys" because you're their friends.
If you called a grown man, probably older than you (50), who you didn't know at all personally, and who is of a race that has frequently been called "boy" as a way to patronise them and infer that they weren't full adults, "boy," yeah, I think people would probably say something, whether or not you meant it offensively.
Perhaps my reaction is colored by having grown up in Atlanta, where casual white-on-black racism is so common that people regularly refer to adult black men as "boy," even total strangers. It's dehumanizing and offensive. Since the OP apparently didn't realize that the word gets used that way, I don't think he should be castigated, but he probably ought to make it clear that he didn't mean to be offensive, and he probably should be aware of the connotations in the future.
I was once called a racist for saying, "Christ. Is this what main stream hip hop is coming to? That culture can go fuck itself" in reaction to one rapper's fans stabbing other rappers fans over their bling.
Of course context matters when you're talking about race. For the record, I don't think the OP is actually racist, just somewhat thoughtless.
He's not even thoughtless. It's ridiculously obvious that the statement was made in complete innocence, and anyone who has a problem with it is either a gigantic PC pussy or reading way too much into it.
Would you have said the same thing about mainstream rock music if one artist's fan stabbed another artist's fan over his awesome leather jacket? If you would, not racist. Rock music doesn't have the issue of being conflated with white culture as a whole that hip-hop does, however.
Whining about "gigantic PC pussy" pretty much solidifies my impression of the sort of over-privileged white men who complain about being asked not to be offensive. Thanks for the "pussy" reference, too; it's nice to know that you think that female genitalia = weak and ineffectual.
Whatever you do, don't use the term "niggardly" or the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" around the people who got upset. Two completely non-racist terms that people stupidly take the wrong way.
Racist. Why does the pot and kettle have to be black!? o_O
Cause iron pots and kettle are generally black. They didn't have stainless steel before...
"Boy" is not a racist term by any stretch of the imagination. I honestly think some of the people in this thread may be retarded.
You may be retarded. Or at least, have no idea that words have a social and cultural context. Either way, nice fail there.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Thanks for the "pussy" reference, too; it's nice to know that you think that female genitalia = weak and ineffectual.
Oh come on. Are you kidding me right now?
As a matter of fact, no. Calling people "pussies" to refer to them as weak or whiny has its roots in sexism.
Can be interchanged with dick. I don't get where you're coming from. Do you get angry when people say retard(ed) because of it's multiple uses and it's one particular use to handicapped people, but because it does apply to them it immediately becomes an "offensive" word?
Thanks for the "pussy" reference, too; it's nice to know that you think that female genitalia = weak and ineffectual.
Don't be a dick.
I think she does have a point there. I stopped using the word "pussy" to describe cowardice because I think it to be inconsiderate to women. As for the don't be a dick reference, I have seldom met a guy that would take offense to a male extremity describing undesirable behavior. Either way just my 2 cents.
Thanks for the "pussy" reference, too; it's nice to know that you think that female genitalia = weak and ineffectual.
Oh come on. Are you kidding me right now?
As a matter of fact, no. Calling people "pussies" to refer to them as weak or whiny has its roots in sexism.
I gotta agree with you there. Using gender-specific genetalia as a derogatory term is, at it's root, sexist. I use those words all the time, but then again I'm a lvl. 2 chauvinist. Luckily for me, I have a wife who won't put up with that shit.
Thanks for the "pussy" reference, too; it's nice to know that you think that female genitalia = weak and ineffectual.
Oh come on. Are you kidding me right now?
As a matter of fact, no. Calling people "pussies" to refer to them as weak or whiny has its roots in sexism.
Can be interchanged with dick. I don't get where you're coming from. Do you get angry when people say retard(ed) because of it's multiple uses and it's one particular use to handicapped people, but because it does apply to them it immediately becomes an "offensive" word?
Edit:
I hate this world.
"Dick" and "pussy" have entirely different connotations. Dick = generally jerkish. Pussy = weak, whiny, ineffectual. Is there a centuries-old stereotype that men as a gender are jerks? Not really. Is there a centuries-old stereotype that women are weak, whiny, and ineffectual? Hell yes.
I don't get terribly angry when people say "retarded" because the multiple uses predated the offensive stereotype. However, I do try not to use it, and think somewhat less of other people use it often, because people rarely use "retarded" to mean "a process that has been slowed or halted," they mostly either use it to mean the mentally disabled or to imply that something is stupid.
Thanks for the "pussy" reference, too; it's nice to know that you think that female genitalia = weak and ineffectual.
Oh come on. Are you kidding me right now?
As a matter of fact, no. Calling people "pussies" to refer to them as weak or whiny has its roots in sexism.
Can be interchanged with dick. I don't get where you're coming from. Do you get angry when people say retard(ed) because of it's multiple uses and it's one particular use to handicapped people, but because it does apply to them it immediately becomes an "offensive" word?
Edit:
I hate this world.
"Dick" and "pussy" have entirely different connotations. Dick = generally jerkish. Pussy = weak, whiny, ineffectual. Is there a centuries-old stereotype that men as a gender are jerks? Not really. Is there a centuries-old stereotype that women are weak, whiny, and ineffectual? Hell yes.
I don't get terribly angry when people say "retarded" because the multiple uses predated the offensive stereotype. However, I do try not to use it, and think somewhat less of other people use it often, because people rarely use "retarded" to mean "a process that has been slowed or halted," they mostly either use it to mean the mentally disabled or to imply that something is stupid.
Then if you don't mind me asking, why the double standard with boy?
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
0
kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
Sure, "Boy" has historical contexts that are unpleasant, but the acutal context of your usage should trump this. Obama may be middle-aged, but if a boy is good to his mama, he's good to his mama - i've seen people of a variety of racial and ethnic groupings use boy that context, in multiple languages.
If you were to refer to Obama as "That's my boy!" or wear one of those "Obama is my homeboy" t-shirts, those are other instances where you shouldn't have to feel bad about offending people.
If you were to deny him seating at a lunch counter, combine it with a racial epithet, or talk about him patronizingly, I could see the objection...combining it with non-patronising praise, I don't get the point of outrage. There's no winning arguements with people who are keen to be offended about things.
My opinion is that preserving a wide usage range of the english language is more socially and aesthetically valuable than policing word usage. Unless you actually are politically retrograde, you might respond to someone productively by saying "I understand and agree with your struggle for liberation/awareness, but I have a different opinion on how language affects that struggle."
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
Words have multiple meanings, how is this hard to grasp?
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
Words have multiple meanings, how is this hard to grasp?
Yes, and some of those meanings are racist or sexist. How is that hard to grasp?
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
Words have multiple meanings, how is this hard to grasp?
Yes, and some of those meanings are racist or sexist. How is that hard to grasp?
Annnnnnd we've come full circle.
Intent was not racist, thus the meaning was not racist.
Bowen on
0
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
Quite some time ago (I think it was in the 70's), at the Australian television awards called the Logies (after John Logie Baird, inventor of televisions basic concepts) the white Australian presenter innocently said to the audience after engaging in conversation with Muhammed Ali "I like the boy!"
It took some quick talking and apologising to avoid Bert Newton getting his face smashed in on national television.
He didn't mean it as racist, but I can certainly see why it would be so offensive, especially with the social change that was going on in America at the time.
Nowadays, wthin the modern social climate where no-one outside of the town of Buttfuck Louisiana gives a damn about the colour of anyone's skin, I don't see why a word like boy could be considered racist in geeral conversation. If it was being yelled at someone in a derogatory fashion, then of course, it just like the n-word. But in general conversation it was obviously intended woth the same meaning as saying guy, or fellow, or bloke, or (shudder) dude...
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
Words have multiple meanings, how is this hard to grasp?
Yes, and some of those meanings are racist or sexist. How is that hard to grasp?
Annnnnnd we've come full circle.
Intent was not racist, thus the meaning was not racist.
Fine. then the OP should clarify and move on. Not bitch and whine that someone mistook the statement for racism, which, just going by what the OP said, is NOT that unreasonable.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
Words have multiple meanings, how is this hard to grasp?
Yes, and some of those meanings are racist or sexist. How is that hard to grasp?
So if a word can in any way be used to offend someone it should be abandoned completely? I'm not trying to strawman you here, but I'm not really sure what you're getting at.
Boy has a long history of being used in a racial manner. While not common in all circles it is well known in others. That said, I think you have to be more careful around who you say it whether you mean something racist or not since their personal exposure to it is negative.
Thanks for the "pussy" reference, too; it's nice to know that you think that female genitalia = weak and ineffectual.
Oh come on. Are you kidding me right now?
As a matter of fact, no. Calling people "pussies" to refer to them as weak or whiny has its roots in sexism.
Can be interchanged with dick. I don't get where you're coming from. Do you get angry when people say retard(ed) because of it's multiple uses and it's one particular use to handicapped people, but because it does apply to them it immediately becomes an "offensive" word?
Edit:
I hate this world.
"Dick" and "pussy" have entirely different connotations. Dick = generally jerkish. Pussy = weak, whiny, ineffectual. Is there a centuries-old stereotype that men as a gender are jerks? Not really. Is there a centuries-old stereotype that women are weak, whiny, and ineffectual? Hell yes.
I don't get terribly angry when people say "retarded" because the multiple uses predated the offensive stereotype. However, I do try not to use it, and think somewhat less of other people use it often, because people rarely use "retarded" to mean "a process that has been slowed or halted," they mostly either use it to mean the mentally disabled or to imply that something is stupid.
Then if you don't mind me asking, why the double standard with boy?
I wouldn't get incredibly angry with someone for saying "boy" without realizing that they might be saying something offensive either. I would, if I felt comfortable enough to talk to them (I'm pretty shy in person, really) point out the possibly-offensive connotations, just like I would for "that's so retarded."
"Boy," of course, does have multiple uses. However, "boy" as pertaining to an adult black man who you don't know personally, is very, very frequently used offensively, just like "retarded." If I heard someone call Obama "a nice boy" in a grandmother-voice sort of way, I probably wouldn't think they were racist, just ill-informed as to the connotations of the word. If I said "Hey, you know, that sounds a bit racist because 'boy' is often used to patronise black men" and the other person said "Whoops, didn't know that. I didn't mean it that way," I definitely wouldn't think of them as racist. If they got all defensive and "Whatever, I say what I want, you're too sensitive, don't be so PC," yeah, I'd think of them as racist, or at least an asshole.
So are we to assume that white males just have it easier than anyone else in the world, and have never had do endure any hardships or ridicule, ever?
I got denied help for college because I was white. How does that make any sense? If I had been anything but a white male, I would have gotten assistance but... Nope, all white dudes are rich and have it easy, right?
Women/blacks/jews/arabs/chinese/everyone else is just suffering so bad, right?
Everyone has their issues, how about you deal with them instead of trying to pawn it off on race/sex/something else.
I'm just going to get outraged anytime someone says "dick" from now on as an insult! This is an outrage that someone would use an insult that has a negative meaning! How dare they!
I really feel like everyone is trying hard to be the victim here.
I'd say let's keep this from going in that direction. This isn't D&D and while this H&A is good stuff, I'd rather see the advice without the infraction/ban hammer coming through town.
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
I'd say let's keep this from going in that direction. This isn't D&D and while this H&A is good stuff, I'd rather see the advice without the infraction/ban hammer coming through town.
I agree...
Back on topic, which is kind of an DD topic anyways! o_O
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
So are we to assume that white males just have it easier than anyone else in the world, and have never had do endure any hardships or ridicule, ever?
I got denied help for college because I was white. How does that make any sense? If I had been anything but a white male, I would have gotten assistance but... Nope, all white dudes are rich and have it easy, right?
Women/blacks/jews/arabs/chinese/everyone else is just suffering so bad, right?
Everyone has their issues, how about you deal with them instead of trying to pawn it off on race/sex/something else.
I'm just going to get outraged anytime someone says "dick" from now on as an insult! This is an outrage that someone would use an insult that has a negative meaning! How dare they!
I really feel like everyone is trying hard to be the victim here.
Okay, so apparently you were denied help for college because you're white and male. You also started out in life with an enormous list of advantages, from being called on more often in school to being less likely to be accused of crimes, and if you are accused, you'll get off or recieve a lighter sentence on average. You'll be hired more, be promoted more, make more money than your minority counterparts, again on average. If you want a family, no one will expect you to give up your career in order to be a decent parent. If you go broke and have to have goverment assistance, people will attribute it to your luck or your own personal failings, not those of your gender or race. Most authority you'll ever have to deal with is going to be the same race and gender as you.
You have a whole host of lifetime advantages that you fell into just by being born white and male, and even with the absence of "white guy" scholarships, you'll still, on average, have an easier time getting through school because of all your other boosts.
And yet, you get all "woe is me" because other people dare to ask you, generally fairly politely, to try not to say offensive things, and point it out when you've said something offensive unintentionally. Who's playing the victim?
If you want to start getting offended that people use "dick" as an insult despite the word tying into no stereotypes at all, knock yourself out.
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
Words have multiple meanings, how is this hard to grasp?
Yes, and some of those meanings are racist or sexist. How is that hard to grasp?
So if a word can in any way be used to offend someone it should be abandoned completely? I'm not trying to strawman you here, but I'm not really sure what you're getting at.
No, but i think understanding that word can have a racist or sexist meaning, and not getting defensive when someone misconstrues something will go a long way in this society. Way more then just accusing people of being hyper sensitive.
In other words, if someone accuses you of saying something racist, and you in fact said something that someone could take that way... spending 10 seconds to say that wasn't your intention is much better then saying "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's NEVER racist and you're an idiot."
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Do you people just think words fall from the freaking sky? No, they develop meaning over time... that meaning, at least for derogatory words, often have their roots in racist, sexist, or bigoted meanings. How is this hard to grasp?
What do you mean by "you people?"
That was clever. Seriously, I lol'd.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
No, but i think understanding that word can have a racist or sexist meaning, and not getting defensive when someone misconstrues something will go a long way in this society. Way more then just accusing people of being hyper sensitive.
In other words, if someone accuses you of saying something racist, and you in fact said something that someone could take that way... spending 10 seconds to say that wasn't your intention is much better then saying "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's NEVER racist and you're an idiot."
I need to learn to be more concise. This, exactly, is what I'm trying to point out.
So are we to assume that white males just have it easier than anyone else in the world, and have never had do endure any hardships or ridicule, ever?
I got denied help for college because I was white. How does that make any sense? If I had been anything but a white male, I would have gotten assistance but... Nope, all white dudes are rich and have it easy, right?
Women/blacks/jews/arabs/chinese/everyone else is just suffering so bad, right?
Everyone has their issues, how about you deal with them instead of trying to pawn it off on race/sex/something else.
I'm just going to get outraged anytime someone says "dick" from now on as an insult! This is an outrage that someone would use an insult that has a negative meaning! How dare they!
I really feel like everyone is trying hard to be the victim here.
Okay, so apparently you were denied help for college because you're white and male. You also started out in life with an enormous list of advantages, from being called on more often in school to being less likely to be accused of crimes, and if you are accused, you'll get off or recieve a lighter sentence on average. You'll be hired more, be promoted more, make more money than your minority counterparts, again on average. If you want a family, no one will expect you to give up your career in order to be a decent parent. If you go broke and have to have goverment assistance, people will attribute it to your luck or your own personal failings, not those of your gender or race. Most authority you'll ever have to deal with is going to be the same race and gender as you.
You have a whole host of lifetime advantages that you fell into just by being born white and male, and even with the absence of "white guy" scholarships, you'll still, on average, have an easier time getting through school because of all your other boosts.
And yet, you get all "woe is me" because other people dare to ask you, generally fairly politely, to try not to say offensive things, and point it out when you've said something offensive unintentionally. Who's playing the victim?
If you want to start getting offended that people use "dick" as an insult despite the word tying into no stereotypes at all, knock yourself out.
I'm going to have to disagree with most of that. I'm a firm believer that people make their own fate.
I've yet to see all of these advantages of being white you speak of...
When I was in college, the white guys had the same problems as the said minorities. This day and age I really don't see any of that... Maybe its because I work in a corporate environment, but I have never seen discrimination of any kind during my time as an adult.
...And I got all "woe is me"? I was relating an experience that was countering prior implications of being white, how is that "woe is me" at all?
I never even implied I said offensive things like that, but I was a little surprised when you pulled the sexist card.
I won't actually care if people use the word dick, its an insult and meant to be derogatory so why should you expect it to be sensitive to whoever it is directed at, or derived from?
But, sorry for being born male. My apologies (We need a roll-eye emote, stat!)
I've yet to see all of these advantages of being white you speak of...
That's kind of how institutionalized racism and white privilege works.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
No, but i think understanding that word can have a racist or sexist meaning, and not getting defensive when someone misconstrues something will go a long way in this society. Way more then just accusing people of being hyper sensitive.
In other words, if someone accuses you of saying something racist, and you in fact said something that someone could take that way... spending 10 seconds to say that wasn't your intention is much better then saying "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's NEVER racist and you're an idiot."
I need to learn to be more concise. This, exactly, is what I'm trying to point out.
I have to disagree, to an extent. A person shouldn't have to explain his or her intentions when using commonplace words, except perhaps when those words could be easily linked to its pejorative connotation by a reasonable person. An overly sensitive person might be offended if I were to say, "Obama, now he's my boy." However, I think a reasonable person might find offense to a white customer saying to a black bartender, "Get me a beer, boy." Completely different scenarios, and I think we might agree that the latter has a racial undertone.
Posts
Racist. Why does the pot and kettle have to be black!? o_O
Long quote tree was long.
I don't think anyone would jump on you for calling your kid "my boy" because you're his dad. I don't think anyone would jump on you for calling your friends "my boys" because you're their friends.
If you called a grown man, probably older than you (50), who you didn't know at all personally, and who is of a race that has frequently been called "boy" as a way to patronise them and infer that they weren't full adults, "boy," yeah, I think people would probably say something, whether or not you meant it offensively.
Perhaps my reaction is colored by having grown up in Atlanta, where casual white-on-black racism is so common that people regularly refer to adult black men as "boy," even total strangers. It's dehumanizing and offensive. Since the OP apparently didn't realize that the word gets used that way, I don't think he should be castigated, but he probably ought to make it clear that he didn't mean to be offensive, and he probably should be aware of the connotations in the future.
Would you have said the same thing about mainstream rock music if one artist's fan stabbed another artist's fan over his awesome leather jacket? If you would, not racist. Rock music doesn't have the issue of being conflated with white culture as a whole that hip-hop does, however.
Whining about "gigantic PC pussy" pretty much solidifies my impression of the sort of over-privileged white men who complain about being asked not to be offensive. Thanks for the "pussy" reference, too; it's nice to know that you think that female genitalia = weak and ineffectual.
That said, the people that jumped on you about it are retarded.
Cause iron pots and kettle are generally black. They didn't have stainless steel before...
Or were you being sarcastic?
Oh come on. Are you kidding me right now?
And Daxon...
I was being sarcastic
As a matter of fact, no. Calling people "pussies" to refer to them as weak or whiny has its roots in sexism.
You may be retarded. Or at least, have no idea that words have a social and cultural context. Either way, nice fail there.
Can be interchanged with dick. I don't get where you're coming from. Do you get angry when people say retard(ed) because of it's multiple uses and it's one particular use to handicapped people, but because it does apply to them it immediately becomes an "offensive" word?
Edit:
I hate this world.
I think she does have a point there. I stopped using the word "pussy" to describe cowardice because I think it to be inconsiderate to women. As for the don't be a dick reference, I have seldom met a guy that would take offense to a male extremity describing undesirable behavior. Either way just my 2 cents.
I'm with bowen on this.
I gotta agree with you there. Using gender-specific genetalia as a derogatory term is, at it's root, sexist. I use those words all the time, but then again I'm a lvl. 2 chauvinist. Luckily for me, I have a wife who won't put up with that shit.
"Dick" and "pussy" have entirely different connotations. Dick = generally jerkish. Pussy = weak, whiny, ineffectual. Is there a centuries-old stereotype that men as a gender are jerks? Not really. Is there a centuries-old stereotype that women are weak, whiny, and ineffectual? Hell yes.
I don't get terribly angry when people say "retarded" because the multiple uses predated the offensive stereotype. However, I do try not to use it, and think somewhat less of other people use it often, because people rarely use "retarded" to mean "a process that has been slowed or halted," they mostly either use it to mean the mentally disabled or to imply that something is stupid.
Then if you don't mind me asking, why the double standard with boy?
If you were to refer to Obama as "That's my boy!" or wear one of those "Obama is my homeboy" t-shirts, those are other instances where you shouldn't have to feel bad about offending people.
If you were to deny him seating at a lunch counter, combine it with a racial epithet, or talk about him patronizingly, I could see the objection...combining it with non-patronising praise, I don't get the point of outrage. There's no winning arguements with people who are keen to be offended about things.
My opinion is that preserving a wide usage range of the english language is more socially and aesthetically valuable than policing word usage. Unless you actually are politically retrograde, you might respond to someone productively by saying "I understand and agree with your struggle for liberation/awareness, but I have a different opinion on how language affects that struggle."
Yes, and some of those meanings are racist or sexist. How is that hard to grasp?
Annnnnnd we've come full circle.
Intent was not racist, thus the meaning was not racist.
It took some quick talking and apologising to avoid Bert Newton getting his face smashed in on national television.
He didn't mean it as racist, but I can certainly see why it would be so offensive, especially with the social change that was going on in America at the time.
Nowadays, wthin the modern social climate where no-one outside of the town of Buttfuck Louisiana gives a damn about the colour of anyone's skin, I don't see why a word like boy could be considered racist in geeral conversation. If it was being yelled at someone in a derogatory fashion, then of course, it just like the n-word. But in general conversation it was obviously intended woth the same meaning as saying guy, or fellow, or bloke, or (shudder) dude...
tl;dr - your friends were being alarmist.
Fine. then the OP should clarify and move on. Not bitch and whine that someone mistook the statement for racism, which, just going by what the OP said, is NOT that unreasonable.
I wouldn't get incredibly angry with someone for saying "boy" without realizing that they might be saying something offensive either. I would, if I felt comfortable enough to talk to them (I'm pretty shy in person, really) point out the possibly-offensive connotations, just like I would for "that's so retarded."
"Boy," of course, does have multiple uses. However, "boy" as pertaining to an adult black man who you don't know personally, is very, very frequently used offensively, just like "retarded." If I heard someone call Obama "a nice boy" in a grandmother-voice sort of way, I probably wouldn't think they were racist, just ill-informed as to the connotations of the word. If I said "Hey, you know, that sounds a bit racist because 'boy' is often used to patronise black men" and the other person said "Whoops, didn't know that. I didn't mean it that way," I definitely wouldn't think of them as racist. If they got all defensive and "Whatever, I say what I want, you're too sensitive, don't be so PC," yeah, I'd think of them as racist, or at least an asshole.
I got denied help for college because I was white. How does that make any sense? If I had been anything but a white male, I would have gotten assistance but... Nope, all white dudes are rich and have it easy, right?
Women/blacks/jews/arabs/chinese/everyone else is just suffering so bad, right?
Everyone has their issues, how about you deal with them instead of trying to pawn it off on race/sex/something else.
I'm just going to get outraged anytime someone says "dick" from now on as an insult! This is an outrage that someone would use an insult that has a negative meaning! How dare they!
I really feel like everyone is trying hard to be the victim here.
What do you mean by "you people?"
I agree...
Back on topic, which is kind of an DD topic anyways! o_O
Edit:
I just LMAO'd
Okay, so apparently you were denied help for college because you're white and male. You also started out in life with an enormous list of advantages, from being called on more often in school to being less likely to be accused of crimes, and if you are accused, you'll get off or recieve a lighter sentence on average. You'll be hired more, be promoted more, make more money than your minority counterparts, again on average. If you want a family, no one will expect you to give up your career in order to be a decent parent. If you go broke and have to have goverment assistance, people will attribute it to your luck or your own personal failings, not those of your gender or race. Most authority you'll ever have to deal with is going to be the same race and gender as you.
You have a whole host of lifetime advantages that you fell into just by being born white and male, and even with the absence of "white guy" scholarships, you'll still, on average, have an easier time getting through school because of all your other boosts.
And yet, you get all "woe is me" because other people dare to ask you, generally fairly politely, to try not to say offensive things, and point it out when you've said something offensive unintentionally. Who's playing the victim?
If you want to start getting offended that people use "dick" as an insult despite the word tying into no stereotypes at all, knock yourself out.
No, but i think understanding that word can have a racist or sexist meaning, and not getting defensive when someone misconstrues something will go a long way in this society. Way more then just accusing people of being hyper sensitive.
In other words, if someone accuses you of saying something racist, and you in fact said something that someone could take that way... spending 10 seconds to say that wasn't your intention is much better then saying "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's NEVER racist and you're an idiot."
That was clever. Seriously, I lol'd.
I need to learn to be more concise. This, exactly, is what I'm trying to point out.
I'm going to have to disagree with most of that. I'm a firm believer that people make their own fate.
I've yet to see all of these advantages of being white you speak of...
When I was in college, the white guys had the same problems as the said minorities. This day and age I really don't see any of that... Maybe its because I work in a corporate environment, but I have never seen discrimination of any kind during my time as an adult.
...And I got all "woe is me"? I was relating an experience that was countering prior implications of being white, how is that "woe is me" at all?
I never even implied I said offensive things like that, but I was a little surprised when you pulled the sexist card.
I won't actually care if people use the word dick, its an insult and meant to be derogatory so why should you expect it to be sensitive to whoever it is directed at, or derived from?
But, sorry for being born male. My apologies (We need a roll-eye emote, stat!)
That's kind of how institutionalized racism and white privilege works.
I have to disagree, to an extent. A person shouldn't have to explain his or her intentions when using commonplace words, except perhaps when those words could be easily linked to its pejorative connotation by a reasonable person. An overly sensitive person might be offended if I were to say, "Obama, now he's my boy." However, I think a reasonable person might find offense to a white customer saying to a black bartender, "Get me a beer, boy." Completely different scenarios, and I think we might agree that the latter has a racial undertone.