LittleBigPlanet has seen it’s first patch this morning for anyone with the game already (or at least the European version) taking the game to version 1.01. Interestingly, it appears the song in question is still there, we’re assuming they’ve removed, censored or looped around the troublesome content, though.
I wasn't privy to all of the discussions and debate that went on within Sony, but I know they would have thought very deeply about it, and at the highest level of the company. And on reflection I think it was absolutely the right thing to do, because Little Big Planet set out from day one to be a game for the entire world -- and if there was anything that accidentally detracted from that vision and made the game not fun for the entire world, then the game would have fundamentally failed in its mission.
the recall was made not particularly for the sake of Muslims, but for the sake of LittleBigPlanet.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited October 2008
Oh come on now, let's be honest here. Sony Entertainment was afraid. Not afraid of Fox News, but afraid that releasing the game with the song intact would result in some Al Queda _sshole using it as an excuse to kidnap a Sony employee and gut him on camera. This sort of pre-emptive self-censorship by Sony is exactly the wrong response, because it will only encourage more intimidation.
I wasn't privy to all of the discussions and debate that went on within Sony, but I know they would have thought very deeply about it, and at the highest level of the company. And on reflection I think it was absolutely the right thing to do, because Little Big Planet set out from day one to be a game for the entire world -- and if there was anything that accidentally detracted from that vision and made the game not fun for the entire world, then the game would have fundamentally failed in its mission.
the recall was made not particularly for the sake of Muslims, but for the sake of LittleBigPlanet.
Yeah, but then what happens when you run into a group of people who are offended by the very idea of a video game? Then what do you do? How can anybody even take a step out their front door without offending somebody these days? They can put out a game where you kill police officers... for fun... and maybe some people get pissed off. They could put out a video game with aliens or dinosaurs or hey even cavemen. Technically those ideas might be offensive to Christians. Nobody cares. They don't recall video games just because they offend Christians... but then again maybe people aren't worried about being blown up by Christians.
The idea that they took out stuff ebcause they were scared of being blown up is frankly offensive. Do all Muslims blow stuff up? Of course not, stop insinuating it.
The took it out because this game really is the PS3s last chance. Their console is on the rapes, and Sony knows that this needs to go well for them to even be an option next Christmas.
Yeah, or a group of people get together with some nasty lawyers. They threaten legal action and actually get something pulled off the shelves. Fundamentally this is no different than the guy who threatens to blow people up.
The idea that they took out stuff ebcause they were scared of being blown up is frankly offensive. Do all Muslims blow stuff up? Of course not, stop insinuating it.
The took it out because this game really is the PS3s last chance. Their console is on the rapes, and Sony knows that this needs to go well for them to even be an option next Christmas.
I don't think they (sony) are afraid of being blown up. I think they are afraid of loosing sales. I think they are afraid of a PR nightmare. Business stuff. It's the customers who have a problem.
And I never said Muslims blow people up. I've never seen one blow up. Have you? Why would anybody be worried about being blown up by a Muslim. I'm more likely to be killed driving to work, or choking on a pretzel.
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RoshinMy backlog can be seen from spaceSwedenRegistered Userregular
The idea that they took out stuff ebcause they were scared of being blown up is frankly offensive. Do all Muslims blow stuff up? Of course not, stop insinuating it.
Not all of them, but there is a vocal minority who seem to be looking for reasons to be outraged. They were burning flags and getting ready to kill over the Muhammed cartoon, remember. I can totally understand Sony being careful.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
Yeah, or a group of people get together with some nasty lawyers. They threaten legal action and actually get something pulled off the shelves. Fundamentally this is no different than the guy who threatens to blow people up.
That would come as news to Theo van Gogh right about now. If he were still alive to hear it.
Not all of them, but there is a vocal minority who seem to be looking for reasons to be outraged. They were burning flags and getting ready to kill over the Muhammed cartoon, remember. I can totally understand Sony being careful.
They didn't just get ready, people were killed. For Sony to cave in like this, pre-emptively, and blow who knows how many millions on recalling and replacing store copies of LBP, is just the sort of surrender that the Muslim fundamentalists are looking for.
Not all of them, but there is a vocal minority who seem to be looking for reasons to be outraged. They were burning flags and getting ready to kill over the Muhammed cartoon, remember. I can totally understand Sony being careful.
They didn't just get ready, people were killed. For Sony to cave in like this, pre-emptively, and blow who knows how many millions on recalling and replacing store copies of LBP, is just the sort of surrender that the Muslim fundamentalists are looking for.
Yep, and a bunch of infants were killed by toxic chemicals in plastic bottles. Better pull those off the shelves too.
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RoshinMy backlog can be seen from spaceSwedenRegistered Userregular
Not all of them, but there is a vocal minority who seem to be looking for reasons to be outraged. They were burning flags and getting ready to kill over the Muhammed cartoon, remember. I can totally understand Sony being careful.
They didn't just get ready, people were killed. For Sony to cave in like this, pre-emptively, and blow who knows how many millions on recalling and replacing store copies of LBP, is just the sort of surrender that the Muslim fundamentalists are looking for.
Possibly, but Sony are in business, not in politics, and I don't think they were happy to see them overlap.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited October 2008
Sony is one of the world's largest corporations. They have decades of experience, especially in the Japanese economy, of the intersection between business and politics. This is surrender, not politics.
Sony is one of the world's largest corporations. They have decades of experience, especially in the Japanese economy, of the intersection between business and politics. This is surrender, not politics.
Surrender to... whom? Their bottom line?
For a company like Sony this is pretty much "Time to make a quick decision, which is going to eventually cost us more money."
Not all of them, but there is a vocal minority who seem to be looking for reasons to be outraged. They were burning flags and getting ready to kill over the Muhammed cartoon, remember. I can totally understand Sony being careful.
They didn't just get ready, people were killed. For Sony to cave in like this, pre-emptively, and blow who knows how many millions on recalling and replacing store copies of LBP, is just the sort of surrender that the Muslim fundamentalists are looking for.
You...Don't have a high opinion of the Muslim world, do you, Fairchild?
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited October 2008
What in the world does my opinion of fundamentalist terrorists have to do with the Muslim world in general ? This bland reluctance to call Muslim terrorists what they are out of fear of insulting "the Muslim world", as if the two are indistinguishable, is very dangerous.
Dusdais ashamed of this postSLC, UTRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
Much as I hate it, I think Sony made the correct choice, speaking purely from a business perspective.
If they had left it in there, they would have risked a huge media blowout potentially rivaling that of Hot Coffee. The result could have permanently tarnished the franchise name, and put a strikeout through a steadily dwindling list of PS3 exclusives. I can see the headlines the media could come up with regarding this song, and none of them are good for business.
Taking the song out on the other hand probably doubled their disc/packaging production costs, and delayed the release date a few days. A very, very small group (us, mostly) is pissed about the 'self-censorship' but otherwise there is no impact. Nothing to report, no scandal to unveil, and thus no bad press.
Sure, from a philosophical standpoint I'm appalled. I would have told anyone offended by the paraphrasing of the Qur'an to get the fuck over it. But from a business perspective, I can't blame Sony for making the move that they did.
What in the world does my opinion of fundamentalist terrorists have to do with the Muslim world in general ? This bland reluctance to call Muslim terrorists what they are out of fear of insulting "the Muslim world", as if the two are indistinguishable, is very dangerous.
Didn't anybody see that episode of 24 where the seemingly innocent Muslim kid turns out to be working for the terrorists, who turn out to be white guys... or was it the Chinese I can't remember :P
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RoshinMy backlog can be seen from spaceSwedenRegistered Userregular
Much as I hate it, I think Sony made the correct choice, speaking purely from a business perspective.
If they had left it in there, they would have risked a huge media blowout potentially rivaling that of Hot Coffee. The result could have permanently tarnished the franchise name, and put a strikeout through a steadily dwindling list of PS3 exclusives. I can see the headlines the media could come up with regarding this song, and none of them are good for business.
Taking the song out on the other hand probably doubled their disc/packaging production costs, and delayed the release date a few days. A very, very small group (us, mostly) is pissed about the 'self-censorship' but otherwise there is no impact. Nothing to report, no scandal to unveil, and thus no bad press.
Sure, from a philosophical standpoint I'm appalled. I would have told anyone offended by the paraphrasing of the Qur'an to get the fuck over it. But from a business perspective, I can't blame Sony for making the move that they did.
As somebody who went to a school in an Asian (indian) area, the Holocaust made me alienated as fuck.
"Teacher, why were the Germans killing people"
"They were only killing people from certain cultures..."
Cue each child in the room "would I be killed by them?" - "yes, yould have been"
Until little Ben stands up, blonde haired and blue eyed, and at the time with a Swiss stepfather. "What about me?" - "No, you would have survived if they had won"
Dude, you need an avatar and sig. Twice now your views have run parallel to mine, and I'm afraid I won't recognize your awesome in the future!
Concerning the Holocaust, in 8th grade my class was (optionally) shown the raw footage the Army took when they found it all. Not going over history like that in detail in a classroom should be a crime. I think everyone should see the footage.
Dude, you need an avatar and sig. Twice now your views have run parallel to mine, and I'm afraid I won't recognize your awesome in the future!
Concerning the Holocaust, in 8th grade my class was (optionally) shown the raw footage the Army took when they found it all. Not going over history like that in detail in a classroom should be a crime. I think everyone should see the footage.
Dude, you need an avatar and sig. Twice now your views have run parallel to mine, and I'm afraid I won't recognize your awesome in the future!
Concerning the Holocaust, in 8th grade my class was (optionally) shown the raw footage the Army took when they found it all. Not going over history like that in detail in a classroom should be a crime. I think everyone should see the footage.
And if it's not even a direct quote for the Quran, then I don't see what the issue is. I hate how much everyone is bending over backwards nowadays because they're afraid some crazy fucker is gonna bomb them over a non-issue.
Ok first off I would like to start off with that I am a huge penny arcade fan and a huge gamer. I have read Penny Arcade for years and I am personally confused about the nature of the delay for Little Big Planet, and somewhat appalled. The two verses in question are:
"Every soul shall have the taste of death" 29:57
This verse is in reference to everyone will die.
"All that is on earth will perish" 55:26
One day everything will be gone.
Now how is that offensive? As an American born and raised and a Muslim I am in no way offended by this. In fact it could be a good thing. Maybe someone might hear the song, get curious and look up information about Islam. Maybe it might lead them to even learn, and clear up misconceptions about Islam. Who knows? I am sure the majority of people would hear it and not think twice about it. We are all more concerned about the game itself. I think if anything this song containing such verses would be a good thing for Islam. I wish people would stop being so ignorant and quick to protest anything different, without fully exploring and understanding all the aspects. Which is something the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him taught and encouraged.
Sony didn't pull the song because of those specific phrases. They pulled the song because they received a single complaint that stated it's a violation of Islamic beliefs to put the words of their scripture to music.
But the thing is, I have yet to find independent confirmation of the validity of this complaint. I've asked two practicing Muslims who I work with, and neither of them has heard of such a thing. The creator of the song, who is himself a Muslim, has never heard of such a thing.
Have you yourself heard of such a thing?
I'm starting to suspect that Sony got trolled, and they reacted without so much as even attempting to validate whether or not the basis of the complaint they received was factual.
I mean right on the face of it there is doubt cast on the veracity of that complaint - the Islamic tradition that during prayer men stand atop minarets and sing verses from the Koran. That alone makes me wonder if the complaint was simply a prank gone too far.
Putting 'the words of God' to music is actually blasphemous in Islam. If you look in any Hadith, that'll be the teachings and sayings of the Prophet of Islam, it's stated quite firmly that music is a no-no. SO mixing something forbidden with something sacred is just downright wrong in the eyes of Muslims who actually understand this. Thing is though not many muslims tend to look that deeply into the their own religion and that's where this 'I'm offended!' @I'm not!' stuff comes from. Basic; It was wrong to mix the words of the Quran with the music.
GUYS!
Stop saying that X or Y is afraid of someone blowing them up! In the current context, it makes you look ignorant. This is ALL and ONLY about business and media coverage. Sony needs LBP to be perfect. Media Molecule wants LBP to be perfect. They had a problem, or at least perceived one, and they did what they thought was ultimately the best solution for LBP's success. It's as Tycho said in his newspost and as many have said in this thread, the media preys on shit like this. They've got some sort of vendetta and want videogames out of the world for some reason (actually, they want good ratings and to do so, they need to shock people, scare them, force them to watch their crappy shows, and videogames are an awesome scapegoat since they're so popular).
I'm as outraged as anyone that we've become too PC, that we avoid everything that could offend someone else, but let's be serious and not act like retards here. This thread was doing so good.
And if it's not even a direct quote for the Quran, then I don't see what the issue is. I hate how much everyone is bending over backwards nowadays because they're afraid some crazy fucker is gonna bomb them over a non-issue.
Ah damnit, that's the safari level music, I was going to use it in my level.
The reason some people are offended by it is that the Qoran is considered to be the words right out of the mouth of God. People are supposed to remain silent and listen. If God's talking and you decide to just strike up a tune, that's pretty rude. I don't know if it's "ZOMG blasphemy!", but it's considered culturally insensitive at the very least. Edit: Considering how little most Muslims seem to care, it's probably more akin to a farting outburst in church.
Think of it like this: let's say a foreign developer licenses a song in English that they don't quite understand. The lyrics have something along the lines of "your religion blows!" Are they afraid of American Christians blowing them up, or are they more interested in taking their sweet, sweet Jesus Dollars?
Ok first off I would like to start off with that I am a huge penny arcade fan and a huge gamer. I have read Penny Arcade for years and I am personally confused about the nature of the delay for Little Big Planet, and somewhat appalled. The two verses in question are:
"Every soul shall have the taste of death" 29:57
This verse is in reference to everyone will die.
"All that is on earth will perish" 55:26
One day everything will be gone.
Now how is that offensive? As an American born and raised and a Muslim I am in no way offended by this. In fact it could be a good thing. Maybe someone might hear the song, get curious and look up information about Islam. Maybe it might lead them to even learn, and clear up misconceptions about Islam. Who knows? I am sure the majority of people would hear it and not think twice about it. We are all more concerned about the game itself. I think if anything this song containing such verses would be a good thing for Islam. I wish people would stop being so ignorant and quick to protest anything different, without fully exploring and understanding all the aspects. Which is something the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him taught and encouraged.
Sony didn't pull the song because of those specific phrases. They pulled the song because they received a single complaint that stated it's a violation of Islamic beliefs to put the words of their scripture to music.
But the thing is, I have yet to find independent confirmation of the validity of this complaint. I've asked two practicing Muslims who I work with, and neither of them has heard of such a thing. The creator of the song, who is himself a Muslim, has never heard of such a thing.
Have you yourself heard of such a thing?
I'm starting to suspect that Sony got trolled, and they reacted without so much as even attempting to validate whether or not the basis of the complaint they received was factual.
I mean right on the face of it there is doubt cast on the veracity of that complaint - the Islamic tradition that during prayer men stand atop minarets and sing verses from the Koran. That alone makes me wonder if the complaint was simply a prank gone too far.
Putting 'the words of God' to music is actually blasphemous in Islam. If you look in any Hadith, that'll be the teachings and sayings of the Prophet of Islam, it's stated quite firmly that music is a no-no. SO mixing something forbidden with something sacred is just downright wrong in the eyes of Muslims who actually understand this. Thing is though not many muslims tend to look that deeply into the their own religion and that's where this 'I'm offended!' @I'm not!' stuff comes from. Basic; It was wrong to mix the words of the Quran with the music.
Please tell me where you got this information from. Where in the Quran does it forbid music? Where in the Hadith does it say that it? Do you forget that when Muhammad, peace be upon him, entered Madinah for the first time a song was played for him as he entered?
The prophet (pbuh) said:
"The day of judgment will not come until Islam enters every house"
Also what benefit would happen if someone were to like that song and listen to it. Get curious. It could possibly lead someone to convert. I think that alone would be worth it. Do you
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the recall was made not particularly for the sake of Muslims, but for the sake of LittleBigPlanet.
Yeah, but then what happens when you run into a group of people who are offended by the very idea of a video game? Then what do you do? How can anybody even take a step out their front door without offending somebody these days? They can put out a game where you kill police officers... for fun... and maybe some people get pissed off. They could put out a video game with aliens or dinosaurs or hey even cavemen. Technically those ideas might be offensive to Christians. Nobody cares. They don't recall video games just because they offend Christians... but then again maybe people aren't worried about being blown up by Christians.
The took it out because this game really is the PS3s last chance. Their console is on the rapes, and Sony knows that this needs to go well for them to even be an option next Christmas.
Yeah, or a group of people get together with some nasty lawyers. They threaten legal action and actually get something pulled off the shelves. Fundamentally this is no different than the guy who threatens to blow people up.
I don't think they (sony) are afraid of being blown up. I think they are afraid of loosing sales. I think they are afraid of a PR nightmare. Business stuff. It's the customers who have a problem.
And I never said Muslims blow people up. I've never seen one blow up. Have you? Why would anybody be worried about being blown up by a Muslim. I'm more likely to be killed driving to work, or choking on a pretzel.
Not all of them, but there is a vocal minority who seem to be looking for reasons to be outraged. They were burning flags and getting ready to kill over the Muhammed cartoon, remember. I can totally understand Sony being careful.
Yep, and a bunch of infants were killed by toxic chemicals in plastic bottles. Better pull those off the shelves too.
Possibly, but Sony are in business, not in politics, and I don't think they were happy to see them overlap.
For a company like Sony this is pretty much "Time to make a quick decision, which is going to eventually cost us more money."
You...Don't have a high opinion of the Muslim world, do you, Fairchild?
If they had left it in there, they would have risked a huge media blowout potentially rivaling that of Hot Coffee. The result could have permanently tarnished the franchise name, and put a strikeout through a steadily dwindling list of PS3 exclusives. I can see the headlines the media could come up with regarding this song, and none of them are good for business.
Taking the song out on the other hand probably doubled their disc/packaging production costs, and delayed the release date a few days. A very, very small group (us, mostly) is pissed about the 'self-censorship' but otherwise there is no impact. Nothing to report, no scandal to unveil, and thus no bad press.
Sure, from a philosophical standpoint I'm appalled. I would have told anyone offended by the paraphrasing of the Qur'an to get the fuck over it. But from a business perspective, I can't blame Sony for making the move that they did.
Didn't anybody see that episode of 24 where the seemingly innocent Muslim kid turns out to be working for the terrorists, who turn out to be white guys... or was it the Chinese I can't remember :P
Which is what I was trying to say. So, yeah.
I say
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK THIS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6517359.stm
"Teacher, why were the Germans killing people"
"They were only killing people from certain cultures..."
Cue each child in the room "would I be killed by them?" - "yes, yould have been"
Until little Ben stands up, blonde haired and blue eyed, and at the time with a Swiss stepfather. "What about me?" - "No, you would have survived if they had won"
I did not make any friends that day.
Ignore past, doomed repeat, so forth etc.
Dude, you need an avatar and sig. Twice now your views have run parallel to mine, and I'm afraid I won't recognize your awesome in the future!
Concerning the Holocaust, in 8th grade my class was (optionally) shown the raw footage the Army took when they found it all. Not going over history like that in detail in a classroom should be a crime. I think everyone should see the footage.
I strongly recommend the film "Life is Beautiful" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118799/
Bookmark'd for future review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV5AB0AIQFU
And if it's not even a direct quote for the Quran, then I don't see what the issue is. I hate how much everyone is bending over backwards nowadays because they're afraid some crazy fucker is gonna bomb them over a non-issue.
Putting 'the words of God' to music is actually blasphemous in Islam. If you look in any Hadith, that'll be the teachings and sayings of the Prophet of Islam, it's stated quite firmly that music is a no-no. SO mixing something forbidden with something sacred is just downright wrong in the eyes of Muslims who actually understand this. Thing is though not many muslims tend to look that deeply into the their own religion and that's where this 'I'm offended!' @I'm not!' stuff comes from. Basic; It was wrong to mix the words of the Quran with the music.
Stop saying that X or Y is afraid of someone blowing them up! In the current context, it makes you look ignorant. This is ALL and ONLY about business and media coverage. Sony needs LBP to be perfect. Media Molecule wants LBP to be perfect. They had a problem, or at least perceived one, and they did what they thought was ultimately the best solution for LBP's success. It's as Tycho said in his newspost and as many have said in this thread, the media preys on shit like this. They've got some sort of vendetta and want videogames out of the world for some reason (actually, they want good ratings and to do so, they need to shock people, scare them, force them to watch their crappy shows, and videogames are an awesome scapegoat since they're so popular).
I'm as outraged as anyone that we've become too PC, that we avoid everything that could offend someone else, but let's be serious and not act like retards here. This thread was doing so good.
EDIT: Oh shit.
Ah damnit, that's the safari level music, I was going to use it in my level.
Think of it like this: let's say a foreign developer licenses a song in English that they don't quite understand. The lyrics have something along the lines of "your religion blows!" Are they afraid of American Christians blowing them up, or are they more interested in taking their sweet, sweet Jesus Dollars?
Please tell me where you got this information from. Where in the Quran does it forbid music? Where in the Hadith does it say that it? Do you forget that when Muhammad, peace be upon him, entered Madinah for the first time a song was played for him as he entered?
The prophet (pbuh) said:
"The day of judgment will not come until Islam enters every house"
Also what benefit would happen if someone were to like that song and listen to it. Get curious. It could possibly lead someone to convert. I think that alone would be worth it. Do you