Shiboe's random bits of tastiness

ShiboeShiboe Registered User
edited January 2009 in Artist's Corner
NEW STUFFS ARE HIDING AT END!

This being a slightly bigger venture, I'm really looking for some feedback/help, especially this being my third painting ever, and I know I have monumental ground to cover. I'm particularly interested in any tips regarding color, contrast, value, and so on, as that is probably my weakest area right now.

So yeah, the concept: there's some feather dude, let's call him, feather dude, zipping around on a giant owl with a flaming behemoth sword, and he seems to have gotten into a scrap with a dinosaur/dragonish beasty who's rampaging a various community, feather dude uses his flamey sword to plow through the rear of the beast, and as he circles above for a second pass, the beasty pulls a godzilla and beams at him.

Now, I'm finding this particularly interesting/difficult/challenging to light as a)I only really work in B/W so there's a suck factor, and b) it's at night, with two gigantic sources of light, one being the godzilla beam, the other being the flamey sword.

I've already learned so much from this, but there's a huge fear that I'll turn a potential win into a horrible loss. Some hangups I'm having: I think it's already gonna look un-unified as I'm painting piecemail, I was planning on doing a street below, but I really don't have a clue how I would light the damn thing or any objects (various trampled vehicles) without the whole thing becoming cluttered, and I seem to be losing pizzaz, moxey, whatever you wanna call it, but after painting, things look less zippy, I don't know if it's the shapes or the colors.

Unfortunately, I really only have bad images of the thing, light pencil on canvas seems really difficult to photo. Here are the photos thus far. I've been around long enough to know what's coming, so lay it on me if you feel the need. Really just want any help I can get to make this the best it can be.

roughpbm6.jpg

slice1sh4.jpg

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Posts

  • JohnTWMJohnTWM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    The legs are a little off on the guy. On both legs the knee is too low, and his right leg looks like it is curving weirdly to the back (although this could be related to the knee problem).

    JohnTWM on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Ya, I think it's because I didn't define the knees very well, or at all. I'll see what I can do about it.

    Shiboe on
  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Although it's far too late, something that might of really helped the image is if you really tried to push it dynamically. It looks like you were trying to go for a three-point perspective but the characters are stuck in two (point). I think the delivery would have been better if that fire blast was spread out more, and the eagle's right wing was closer to the viewer, almost having a bit of a fish-eye curve to it.

    Godfather on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Ya far too late for that hehe. Honestly I wasn't using any perspective which was probably stupid. Just kinda putting shapes to paper and moving them until it feels right. I was gonna wait till tomorrow but I think I'm gonna start up on this again tonight, really anxious to get it to work.

    Shiboe on
  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Well i'm looking forward to the ending result. I'd like to give you some more critique, but I honestly think it'd be better for me to see what you come up with and then figure out what the problems are. There's a rather complicated method for setting up a piece, whether it comes to balancing it out or getting the viewer's eye to flow through the main elements.

    Overall though i'm just happy to see someone taking on something ambitious for a change.

    Godfather on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Thanks, I would say this is overly ambitious with my current skill level at painting. =/

    I did the bird last night, but am not really proud of it, will prolly post something more once I feel a bit better about myself. It makes me sad though, because I really liked the concept and was hoping I could just magically pull it off. Looks like no, I'm not special, and I need to go paint from life ad-nausium so I don't suck so hard. It's a good thing overall though, to reach yet another point of realization that I'm bad and need to improve, rather than just sticking with what I can do decently.

    I will finish though, for better or worse. :D

    Shiboe on
  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    If you don't know how you're going to light it, scan a sketch into photoshop so you can play around with multiple versions and make a lot of mistakes quickly at no cost. Or do some thumbnails of how you're thinking of lighting it with real media.

    The better you prep for the painting the better it will come out. Love the idea. :D

    Also, do you have the sketch anywhere but the canvas? Because I'd be avoiding the level of detail you're painting at the moment and just blocking in the main colours and shapes, and working more and more detail into it with each pass over the canvas. Having the sketch elsewhere you could refer back to how you originally conceived the design. The dude you've painted so far looks good, but will probably need painting over when the other light sources are introduced anyway.

    desperaterobots on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited October 2008
    If you don't know how you're going to light it, scan a sketch into photoshop so you can play around with multiple versions and make a lot of mistakes quickly at no cost. Or do some thumbnails of how you're thinking of lighting it with real media.

    The better you prep for the painting the better it will come out. Love the idea. :D

    Also, do you have the sketch anywhere but the canvas? Because I'd be avoiding the level of detail you're painting at the moment and just blocking in the main colours and shapes, and working more and more detail into it with each pass over the canvas. Having the sketch elsewhere you could refer back to how you originally conceived the design. The dude you've painted so far looks good, but will probably need painting over when the other light sources are introduced anyway.

    Ya after doing this (so far) I definately realized my method was pretty bad hehe. I have all these helpful lines that are immediately covered with a base coat and I lose what I was going for. Thanks much for the tips. At this point I'm just using this to test things, but the next thing I do will definitely be more structured in execution. Thumbnails -> side drawing -> photoshop color choices -> guide lines -> base coats -> varying passes of details : that pretty standard/decent for a process? Seems like a lot of work, but I don't want to be in this situation again where I kill a decent idea with poor execution.

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  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Well you might be comfortable with a different process, but after making a fuckload of mistakes I've found that process works best for me. And I guess it does seem like a 'lot of work'. But put it this way...

    I don't know if you've followed my thread at all, but I started a painting and documented the process. I started with a sketch. Gridded it up, transferred it to canvas. Then I did some colour work in photoshop; really simple. Then I started painting. And from start to finish, with moving house and slacking off included, it took about a month to finish. So that was a year ago.

    About a month ago I painted a really similar painting, following the same process. Took me about 1 full day and 4 evenings of painting to do.

    But with every painting, at one point, I will hate what I'm doing, I'll think it's the worst painting I've ever done, I'll think that I've forgotten how to make things work. It will be a disaster, basically. You'll probably come across the same, because judging from your sketch you've got a highly specific image in mind. That's good and bad - good since you've got a vivid idea of how you want things to turn out, but bad because you might not be as flexible as you need to be to make that transition to the painting.

    The point is, keep pushing through that 'oh god this is fucking shit' area, keep a critical eye on your own work so you can spot mistakes as you make them, don't be afraid to paint over a crap bit and try again until you get it right, and I swear, eventually, it will start looking good.

    This painting isnt a lost cause by the way. You should sketch out what you want on a piece of paper and keep it with you as you paint as a guide. Just keep it loose so you can still be creative while you're painting. And if you need to specifically figure something out, do some studies and keep them with you too. That's how I got my helicopter in my big red UFO painting looking good - until then I'd never drawn or painted a helicopter ever before.

    Anyway, as long winded as that is, that would be my advice. Hope it helps.

    desperaterobots on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Everything you said is much appreciated DR, took another swing today, still looks pretty terrible, but if nothing else I'm learning. I think my biggest flaw was not blocking out the forms, among other things. I'm also not pleased at all with the colors at this point, but the nice thing about paint is, I can always go back over the bird or whatever if I feel like spending more time on it.

    Anyways, by no means done, but at least there's very little canvas left visible. And yes, bad picture is bad, I couldn't find a light enough place to photo without flash, and don't feel like borrowing a roomates tripod for a progress shot.

    progressic4.jpg

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  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I'm interested to see where you push this and what changes you make. Are you going to keep working on it?

    desperaterobots on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited October 2008
    I'm interested to see where you push this and what changes you make. Are you going to keep working on it?

    Ya, it's only about half finished. The brown thing is going to become flames and it's going to trail to the wound, and I still need a cityscape in the background, and there's a lot of detail I would like to attempt to add to at least the dragon, and a possible repaint of the bird so he has more form. I ran out of sunlight though, and I didn't feel like painting indoors, so it will have to wait. ;D

    I again appreciate any and all feedback, suggestions, and tips you guys have provided and hopefully continue to provide! Because ya... very new to this whole painting thing. I think I found today it's alot easier if you let go and just paint freely, when I did the bird (a seperate day than today with the lizard) I was so worried how bad it was coming out, I think it was self fulfilling.

    Shiboe on
  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    It looks like you dropped the idea of a cityscape behind it.

    I suppose it's for the better then.

    Godfather on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited October 2008
    Godfather wrote: »
    It looks like you dropped the idea of a cityscape behind it.

    I suppose it's for the better then.

    No I'm still doing it, just doing the foreground first. Think I'm pretty much done with all that stuff though, did the fire today pretty quick, now ready to do the city/street/cars or whatever suits my fancy, but wanted to test it digitally first before I go and completely obliterate it beyond repair.

    Anyways, status update, no flash, taken on a cloudy but still impressively hot california day:
    paintprog2ai1.jpg

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  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Hi again! I've been slowly ramping up the art'ing and am looking for some help once again.

    So for completeness's sake, here's the last 2 painterly things I've done:
    This I just gave up on, realization that my entire process was flawed, and I didn't feel like starting over.
    n574328664_1603527_8010.jpg


    This was my first life drawing thinger, taken from our very messy back yard. I think it was helpful in regards to shadows, a lot of which I did poorly!
    n574328664_1689909_5601.jpg

    And now for the current: Samurai running after massacre of zombie ninjas on snow hill ! Once again no references or perspective was used, probably a poor choice but didn't really seem necessary. Plan is to finish up the details and whatnot, then do a complete inking so I have something I'm fairly certain won't be F'ed up, then afterwords I'll do the whole thing again in paint!

    But it's still fairly early on, and I'd like to get some of yus guys thoughts/criticisms on what may be wonked or improved. Still missing a lot of things, including lighting, which I think I'll have coming from the top right, so I can work on some tree shadows and whatnot. The ground will be snow, one part because snow is neat, other part because I've yet to pull off a decent landscape, and would rather save the learning for a study session.

    Ok enough rambling:
    sam3ze8.jpg

    Oh and sorry abou the poor scan, the bristol is just too big, and a good 3 vertical and 1.5 horizontal inches are cropped, which also leads to some lifting.

    Shiboe on
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Shiboe that dragonpainting would be like 1000x better if you fixed up the dragons arms and claws. Just quickly attached it to his shoulder or somethin.

    New one looks cool. Guys face looks a bit crooked, and did the other guy get his leg cut off, or? Really like the composition, my eye travels through it nicely.

    Kochikens on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Thanks! Crooked how so? I was trying to go for the "breathing out the side of the mouth" look, might be harder to pic up on this small a version, that is if you meant around the mouth, I'll keep working on the face though. The sliced ninja is a zombie, so if you mean his left leg, that's exposed zombie goodness, if you mean his right leg, I haven't drawn it yet, just a light outline. Again, very much in WIP mode. I'm glad the comp is working though, partial random chance, partial intention, was hoping to go from samurai to ninja, leading up body, through sword to other ninja, up choppy tree and will add some leaves and such that flow back towards the samurai dude.

    Shiboe on
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I think the dudes... flowy mane of hair brings you around enough without any leaves. Though those might be nice.

    Umm, with the face, I dunno, it just all seems to be slanting to the right. Should be more:

    maybe.png

    but idk wtf i'm talking about so. The nose just looks pretty crooked.

    Ah, I see the zombieleg now. Dude that zombie would not be stopped at all. A gut wound does nothing. It's gonna be tough to illustrate just how FAST that guy is moving considering the bg tree is just now falling, can't wait to see how you manage it. Should be interesting.

    Kochikens on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Kochikens wrote: »
    I think the dudes... flowy mane of hair brings you around enough without any leaves. Though those might be nice.

    Umm, with the face, I dunno, it just all seems to be slanting to the right. Should be more:

    maybe.png

    but idk wtf i'm talking about so. The nose just looks pretty crooked.

    Ah, I see the zombieleg now. Dude that zombie would not be stopped at all. A gut wound does nothing. It's gonna be tough to illustrate just how FAST that guy is moving considering the bg tree is just now falling, can't wait to see how you manage it. Should be interesting.

    I think you might be right on the face, I'll make some adjustments. As for timing, I'm playing by standard anime rules, the more action that is taking place, the slower everything moves. That tree could very well take 5 minutes to hit the snow as long as the samurai keeps doing choppy things.

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  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    PROGRESS(?) !!!

    I removed what was supposed to be grass around the center, I'm afraid I might be cluttering it up with too much random stuff... But I likes stuff! Anyways, nose better now? I think that's what it was, maybe I need to flatten the side of his forehead a bit more, I think I spotted a lump that might be throwing it off.

    sam4cb6.jpg

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  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Wait. Are you painting this?

    edit: oh, inking.

    desperaterobots on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Wait. Are you painting this?

    edit: oh, inking.

    Painting it afterwords. Gonna end up with an inked version and a painted version, the former is more insurance as I will undoubtedly fuck up the painting. ;D

    Shiboe on
  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Soooooooooo what are you drawing on right now? the canvas? or is that cartridge paper?

    Just sayin, when I sketch things out for my paintings they're usually pretty damn rough, and I'll do specific studies for particular elements of it if I'm not sure how to attack them, and then it all comes together on the canvas via magic!

    I thought if you were painting, all that detailed sketching was pointless, but if you're inking it, it makes perfect sense. Carry on!

    desperaterobots on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Soooooooooo what are you drawing on right now? the canvas? or is that cartridge paper?

    Just sayin, when I sketch things out for my paintings they're usually pretty damn rough, and I'll do specific studies for particular elements of it if I'm not sure how to attack them, and then it all comes together on the canvas via magic!

    I thought if you were painting, all that detailed sketching was pointless, but if you're inking it, it makes perfect sense. Carry on!

    I shall. I'm a little worried now though that the composition is getting too spotty, but I'll find out soon enough I guess.

    Shiboe on
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The sword is really thin. The pommel (correct word?) would not be that thin from any perspective.

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Ya it was more of a placeholder, though I didn't end up doing anything extreme with the sword, thanks though.

    Right about to ink this into permanence, not sure about my clouds though, other than that think it's just a few more footprints and maybe some shading. Sorry about the quality, I took a picture this time so as to fit the whole thing, but light pencil in bright sunlight means I had to really drop down the brightness for visibility. Anyways any last minute suggestions would be appreciated:
    sam5lj0.jpg

    Shiboe on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Done for today. I believe I am the slowest person ever. Still not sure how much shading I actually want to do in ink, not really comfortable shading skin I think:
    sam6jg4.jpg

    Shiboe on
  • desperaterobotsdesperaterobots perth, ausRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    It's looking pretty fucking hot :D That facial expression looks a little mong though. The lips don't look quite right, like they're sliding off to the side of his face a little... Also, that amount of inking looks fine.

    desperaterobots on
  • KochikensKochikens Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    That amount of inking looks fine.



    If it's snow, why are there leaves on the trees.

    Kochikens on
  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    How come he's grabbing his shirt like that?

    Godfather on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    I have horribly ambiguous answers for all of you! (and good morning)

    DR: Thanks man, I feel a kinship towards you, so any declaration of hotness is well received. As for mongoloidianship, I'm going to pull the "everyone looks a little mongoloid when running at mach 5." Honestly I think I prolly should have adjusted more from Kochi's observation, the forhead is a bit off alignment from the head below the eyeline, the mouth though is intentionally skewed sidewise. We can move our jaws left and right, I did it in the mirror to make sure. I was going for mid-exhale to the left breathing heavily under full sprint. The jaw protrudes for similar reasons, but hell not everyone is anime flawless, under-bites are had! And my samurai is a man's man! Buy him a beer or prepare to die.

    Kochikens: An astute observation as I seem to have drawn deciduous trees. The answer lies mostly in me not thinking about it, but I think the ground would have been much more crowded had I filled it with leaves. Certainly not a bad suggestion, but it would require a full overhaul I think, something I'm not prepared to do... Yet! Maybe for the painting, could be a chance to add some fun. ;D

    Godfather: That's for you to decide! Do you hate it when people pull shit like that? Ok, let's say he's reaching for an anti-zombie grenade he keeps close to his heart as he runs towards a massive horde of the undead.

    Thanks for the check-ups guys. Trying to take as much feedback as I can into this.

    Shiboe on
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    That is some slick inking.

    I still don't know about the sword.

    Anyways, his face isn't aligned with his forehead. You seem to have a problem with jaw bones and mouths. The way you draw them is really unpleasant to look at. The chin/jaw are really thin, but the mouth is still big. I don't know...maybe someone could have a face sort of like that.

    Also, I'm pretty sure this pose isn't really possible. You've got the opposite shoulder pointing towards the leg that is running at a really radical angle. The legs are also rather thin, and I can't really understand what's happening in the waist/crotch area.

    Messy draw over to demonstrate what he'd look like without clothes, as well as what the facial structure should be (green line shows the distance between the abdomen midline and the waist midline):
    76838910dr5.jpg
    And yes, I realize the abdomen can twist, but I don't know if it can twist that much.

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    srsizzy wrote: »
    That is some slick inking.

    I still don't know about the sword.

    Anyways, his face isn't aligned with his forehead. You seem to have a problem with jaw bones and mouths. The way you draw them is really unpleasant to look at. The chin/jaw are really thin, but the mouth is still big. I don't know...maybe someone could have a face sort of like that.

    Also, I'm pretty sure this pose isn't really possible. You've got the opposite shoulder pointing towards the leg that is running at a really radical angle. The legs are also rather thin, and I can't really understand what's happening in the waist/crotch area.

    Messy draw over to demonstrate what he'd look like without clothes, as well as what the facial structure should be (green line shows the distance between the abdomen midline and the waist midline):
    76838910dr5.jpg
    And yes, I realize the abdomen can twist, but I don't know if it can twist that much.

    Thanks for the depth, I'll definitely do some head stuff after this, though I do think we collectively get too cought up in trying to draw an "ideal" head, when in reality they do differ quite a bit. Alignment isn't really one of those variables though, so will work on that and see if I can fix my bad habits.

    As for the torso, I know mine can twist into this pose easily enough, keep in mind he's running too, not standing. Sitting in my chair right now though, I can turn my shoulders 90 degree angle of my waist while leaning in, I don't think a mongoloid samurai would have too much trouble. The shoulder is down because he is leaning into the run on the turn. If I'm feeling spunky I'll take a hilarious photo of myself attempting the pose. ;D edit for internet powers: http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/33-68/33-68265-F.jpg this guy bent past the 90 degree mark!

    I don't know why you drew the belly straight in line with the upper torso though, I mean, I understand I didn't really do too much twisting in the shirt stuff, I guess I can put some more twistage in there to indicate, though his arm is covering it nicely.

    Shiboe on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Finished with inkage, plan is to now make several copies with which I can practice things! THINGS! Markers, acrylics, water paints, and so on.

    This is 4 scans composited together so, not great, but ya:
    sam7al4.jpg

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  • L.E.O.L.E.O. Registered User
    edited December 2008
    epic man, eeeepic.

    L.E.O. on
  • VirumVirum Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    that strong cast shadow coming toward us really makes no sense with how little shadow inking you have put on the figures.

    Cool stuff though. :)

    Virum on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Ya I know. =(

    It was honestly a battle of how much shading to do, but I didn't want to overdo it and make everything muddy. I'm off to find some place to print copies though, after that I'll prolly do one that's just full on heavy ink shadowed. I think it's mostly I'm just not confident with ink shading though. Hopefully I can get some good practice out of this!

    Shiboe on
  • Karen_LeslieKaren_Leslie Registered User
    edited December 2008
    It's extremely well drawn, any crits I have were already mentioned; it's hard for me to get terribly excited over people being GUTTED, but that said, it's nice:).

    I don't know what to make of the painting, I guess it's not far enough along yet. I feel like anything I say about it could be belied in the course of you working on it.

    What's this "potential for epic" though? Does the painting have epic potential? Does the drawing have epic potential? What is the potential we are discussing, and for what reasons is it epic? Really curious what the title of this thread means. If I'm missing something obvious then I apologize.

    Karen_Leslie on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    It's extremely well drawn, any crits I have were already mentioned; it's hard for me to get terribly excited over people being GUTTED, but that said, it's nice:).

    I don't know what to make of the painting, I guess it's not far enough along yet. I feel like anything I say about it could be belied in the course of you working on it.

    What's this "potential for epic" though? Does the painting have epic potential? Does the drawing have epic potential? What is the potential we are discussing, and for what reasons is it epic? Really curious what the title of this thread means. If I'm missing something obvious then I apologize.

    It was originally for the first painting I asked for help on, but I never thought to change it. I guess I could, but I think it represents myself well enough as a whole. Not epic yet... but maybe... someday... EPIC.

    Shiboe on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2008
    I think I'm getting way ahead of myself, but it's so much easier to draw then paint, so I seem to be building a sort of queue... Plan is to use the samurai copies to try some new paint stuff out, then I'm going to paint this, something different than my usual.

    Still very much a WIP, hopefully it doesn't turn out too emo:
    pooppaintei8.jpg

    Lots of stuff still to add, and I don't even know how I'm going to orient it, as the plan is to do it on a very elongated canvas. I'm getting more and more excited about all this art stuff though. ;D

    edit with update, doesn't really deserve a bump just some progress:
    pooptacularob1.jpg

    Shiboe on
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