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Gay Marriage For Some, Tiny American Flags For Others
ElJeffe
Not actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
Not actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA mod
So Prop 8 just passed in California, amending our state constitution to say: "Hey, fuck gay people, seriously. Stupid gay people and their stupid gay marriage, hey, why don't you gay marry this <include picture of middle finger>" I may be paraphrasing.
So let's discuss gay marriage. Let's not be dicks about it. The last thread turned into a festering boil of stupid, and if that happens in this one I'm going to force every last one of you to gay-marry Thanatos.
edit: For added direction, let's focus on the legal status of gay marriage across the country. Where do you see this issue coming in the next few years? Something like 30 states have now implemented anti-gay marriage amendments in their constitutions. In virtually every state where it's been tried, it's succeeded, even in allegedly liberal bastions like California. What next?
So let's discuss gay marriage. Let's not be dicks about it. The last thread turned into a festering boil of stupid, and if that happens in this one I'm going to force every last one of you to gay-marry Thanatos.
edit: For added direction, let's focus on the legal status of gay marriage across the country. Where do you see this issue coming in the next few years? Something like 30 states have now implemented anti-gay marriage amendments in their constitutions. In virtually every state where it's been tried, it's succeeded, even in allegedly liberal bastions like California. What next?
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ElJeffe on
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I will go ahead and take a side.
Gay marriage is just super.
but they're listening to every word I say
"<My sister> isn't getting married in California.
Fuck. You. Assholes.
http://www.positiveliberty.com/2008/11/prop-8-by-age.html
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Also, every year, more assholes die.
Fix'd.
What are the chances this will get overturned as being unconstitutional?
And church representatives are actually the ones talking about this. I guess they see where the wind is blowing and realize that this is a better solution for them than being forced to allow gay marriages in churches.
Nope. Not ready for the outside world yet.
*drinks more tequila*
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
If it actually included the picture I'd probably have to vote for it, just for novelty value. Sorry gays.
I think the problem is the position, among most conservatives and even far too many liberals, that being gay is a choice of some kind. It makes it easier to discriminate against somebody for something you perceive as begin their choice (the gay) rather than something they had no say in (zomg a Negro!).
At least for people who try not to be horrible. Horrible people are fine with both.
But I've seen far too many people, even somewhat socially liberal people, argue that gays still have "equal rights" because they have the right to marry any chick they want just like everybody else. /facepalm
Basically gay is the one group that it's still okay to make fun of and discriminate against, even in polite company. Sure, comedians still get away with telling some pretty horribly racist jokes...but they're comedians. When was the last time you heard somebody out in "the wild" tell a racist joke, particularly when surrounded by at least some people they don't know well? Unless you live in Alabama, it's probably been a while.
Now ask that about gays. For a lot of us, it's been much too recently.
Unfortunately I can't think of any good way to accelerate this change.
In Cali? Zero. The Constitution can't be unConstitutional. Federally? Probably pretty high, but how long you got?
Wait really? Swedish civil marriage is still entangled with religious ceremony?
It would have to be brought before SCOTUS, which means there would have to be a specific case. If a gay marriage case hasn't been brought before SCOTUS by now, I don't see any reason to believe it will be. The one thing I can possibly see is that if CA tries to annul all of the gay marriages that occurred prior to Prop 8, someone could try suing on ex post facto grounds.
What happens to the female posters?
I think we'll see it work like it did in Massachusetts. The court say "Yeah, that's unconsitutional" the public get their panties in a twist, happy gay people get married, they cool down, and then it becomes a supported position. The problems with California are that it happened too close to the election, it takes a freaking majority to amend the constitution, and it's so big that every religious group got an "oh shit! This will change everything!" realization and threw texas money at it. Plus, as others pointed out, inner California's apparently just a tanner Kentucky.
I'm hoping Illinois' one of the next ones to go. Both for moral reasons and because, as a Unitarian Universalist, well, "ka ching!"
It will take a while for it to make it to the SCOTUS (if it even can) and if it does so before the court changes dramatically I'd expect them to just refuse to hear it
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, sexual orientation, age or mental or physical disability.
And then local regions can get back to amending their constitution to fuck over criminals harder and leave the gays alone. :P
All I am going to ask right now is you spend some more time thinking about that 'Why'.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I don't see how the word also applying to another couple has any effect on it still applying to yours.
Eh, no, actually.
After gay there's crossdressers and transexuals and polyamores.
I'm not really sure about the details, but I think it's no more than priests being able to perform legally binding marriage ceremonies. So this suggestion would remove that ability and lust leave the actual ceremony.
Furries.
The US is always a prominent signatory.
It's also typically the most flagrant of the first-world violators, with the worst and most frequent and longest-running and least easily-rationalized violations.
It's a fucking disgrace.
I already said I wasn't sure. Before we get off too far, no, none of you are going to convince me to change my mind on it, don't try. I was just stating my opinion as it was asked for.
Do I need to consider the why more? Yes, I do. Will considering the why more change my mind on the topic? It may, or may not, it's hard to say. I didn't vote on prop 8, so my opinion is mostly liquid to begin with.
Anyway, I really do want to do another gay marriage debate, but I can't. It's one of those many issues here in P-A where I start out saying, "look, I agree and vote with you guys, but the ones who disagree aren't nearly so stupid and irrational as you think" and by the end I'm being accused of claiming that gay men are all obsessive rapists or whatever. I don't have the stomach for it anymore because, like I said, I reluctantly agree that there is no goodness achieved in me wanting to (or voting to) stop the government from granting legal marriage status to two men or two women when that is what those men and women want.
And furries. And atheists, sadly, in a good chunk of the mainstream.
edit: Damn you FF
"No reason" isn't an argument. But personally I think it should only be civil unions and they should ignore the churches. If you get married it will just give you a civil union license.
Takes away the religious element.
but they're listening to every word I say
Well, standing in case such as this is easy to get. "Hey, I want to get gay married." "You can't. Prop 8, dude." "I'll sue."
That bolded there? This is a universally horrible foundation on which to base any law or policy. Like, just about ever.
Out of curiosity, what is your feeling on doing away with "marriage" as a legal term entirely, while still allowing churches to say it during ceremonies involving any two people they wish?
EDIT: And, in fact, there's no reason the priest or whoever couldn't still act as the notary for the signing of the contract on the day of the wedding.
But only if they are girls. Then they are sluts.
But if it is a guy they become "Pimp!" or "The Man!"
but they're listening to every word I say
Well, I meant in regards to laws.
Though that's mostly because people can hide being atheists or furries pretty easily.
I mean the latter is barely even known about yet outside of the internet.
But it doesn't matter, because the courts are too conservative.
Hopefully this. Unfortunately age isn't the only determining factor in these sorts of things. This mindset will continue so long as people raise their kids to think this way. Education and experience tends to be a real bigotry killer, though. I can't remember who said it, but seeing the world and differing peoples and points of view really is murder on narrow-mindedness.
I just want to highlight this.
At the yes on 8 protests I saw and that my friends in SoCal saw, these people had a lot of children with them.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I consider atheism a choice. Then again, I suppose that makes religion a choice and opens up a huge can of discriminatory worms. But let's just leave that out of this thread, mmmmkay....
As for furries and...well, whatever else I was thinking of groups of significant size that are likely to be open about their membership to said groups. Also, oddly, furries actually aren't legally discriminated against (to my knowledge), despite being even more fun and acceptable to make fun of.
EDIT: Remember, my original quote was about groups that are okay to discriminate against despite not being voluntary...and in the case of gays it's because people still think it is.