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Racism in America: Why can't we stomp this shit out?

Edgler VessEdgler Vess Registered User regular
edited November 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
Let me start out by saying that I live in the south (Mississippi) and have for the past 3 years, for the most part I like it. The weather is nice, I live in a centrally located town so there is lots to see and do within a short drive. The people, for the most part, are friendly, allthough "southern hospitiality" seems to be losing its edge.

What has always mystified me down here though is the racism. Its not in your face like someone who hasn't been down here may belive, but it is very much here, right under the surface. You won't see it walking around your Wal-mart or Gamestop. But its always there, maybe youll hear something inappropriate when your hanging out with your buddies, or catch a group of kids who think they aren't being overheard say something racist. And its always there right under the surface. The civil war was over about 150 years ago and still this problem isn't solved and I know its not just down here.

The election seems to have brought out the worst in people: (just for some examples)

_Four North Carolina State University students admitted writing anti-Obama comments in a tunnel designated for free speech expression, including one that said: "Let's shoot that (N-word) in the head." Obama has received more threats than any other president-elect, authorities say.

_At Standish, Maine, a sign inside the Oak Hill General Store read: "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool." Customers could sign up to bet $1 on a date when Obama would be killed. "Stabbing, shooting, roadside bombs, they all count," the sign said. At the bottom of the marker board was written "Let's hope someone wins."

_Racist graffiti was found in places including New York's Long Island, where two dozen cars were spray-painted; Kilgore, Texas, where the local high school and skate park were defaced; and the Los Angeles area, where swastikas, racial slurs and "Go Back To Africa" were spray painted on sidewalks, houses and cars.

_Second- and third-grade students on a school bus in Rexburg, Idaho, chanted "assassinate Obama," a district official said.

_University of Alabama professor Marsha L. Houston said a poster of the Obama family was ripped off her office door. A replacement poster was defaced with a death threat and a racial slur. "It seems the election brought the racist rats out of the woodwork," Houston said.

_Black figures were hanged by nooses from trees on Mount Desert Island, Maine, the Bangor Daily News reported. The president of Baylor University in Waco, Texas said a rope found hanging from a campus tree was apparently an abandoned swing and not a noose.

_Crosses were burned in yards of Obama supporters in Hardwick, N.J., and Apolacan Township, Pa.

_A black teenager in New York City said he was attacked with a bat on election night by four white men who shouted 'Obama.'

_In the Pittsburgh suburb of Forest Hills, a black man said he found a note with a racial slur on his car windshield, saying "now that you voted for Obama, just watch out for your house."

I guess the big question is....From what I have heard other countries and places (England comes instantly to mind) doesn't seem to have the same problems that we do. That they seemed to have at least more or less solved thier racism problems and we can't.

TL:DR....Id like to see a situation where race isn't a problem in America anymore, will that day ever come?

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Edgler Vess on
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    _Second- and third-grade students on a school bus in Rexburg, Idaho, chanted "assassinate Obama," a district official said.
    I found this one funny. Do second graders even know what "assassinate" means?

    Hoz on
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    thanimationsthanimations Registered User regular
    edited November 2008

    I guess the big question is....From what I have heard other countries and places (England comes instantly to mind) doesn't seem to have the same problems that we do. That they seemed to have at least more or less solved thier racism problems and we can't.

    I wouldn't go this far. There still is tension in Europe over various groups. The world soccer organization FIFA has initated polices in the last few years specifically to attempt to end racism not just in football but in society. There were some pretty high profile events even in the past few years during sporting events targeted at blacks, Jews, and other minorities, and this is just within one part of the sporting world. Yes, these hooligans don't represent the larger whole, but the fact that things like these still happen is disheartening.

    I'm not trying to deflect attention off the US, as we have a long way to go in eliminating racism. The fact that the acts you detailed above happened on college campuses and schools is the worst. Hopefully if we can continue to educate our generation and the ones after us, we can stamp out this hate.

    thanimations on
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    Edgler VessEdgler Vess Registered User regular
    edited November 2008

    I guess the big question is....From what I have heard other countries and places (England comes instantly to mind) doesn't seem to have the same problems that we do. That they seemed to have at least more or less solved thier racism problems and we can't.

    I wouldn't go this far. There still is tension in Europe over various groups. The world soccer organization FIFA has initated polices in the last few years specifically to attempt to end racism not just in football but in society. There were some pretty high profile events even in the past few years during sporting events targeted at blacks, Jews, and other minorities, and this is just within one part of the sporting world. Yes, these hooligans don't represent the larger whole, but the fact that things like these still happen is disheartening.

    I'm not trying to deflect attention off the US, as we have a long way to go in eliminating racism. The fact that the acts you detailed above happened on college campuses and schools is the worst. Hopefully if we can continue to educate our generation and the ones after us, we can stamp out this hate.

    You're right, education is probably the answer, but education begins at home and rasicm begots more rasicm, seems almost insurmountable at this point. :(

    Edgler Vess on
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    RaakamRaakam Too many years... CanadalandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008

    I guess the big question is....From what I have heard other countries and places (England comes instantly to mind) doesn't seem to have the same problems that we do. That they seemed to have at least more or less solved thier racism problems and we can't.

    I wouldn't go this far. There still is tension in Europe over various groups. The world soccer organization FIFA has initated polices in the last few years specifically to attempt to end racism not just in football but in society. There were some pretty high profile events even in the past few years during sporting events targeted at blacks, Jews, and other minorities, and this is just within one part of the sporting world. Yes, these hooligans don't represent the larger whole, but the fact that things like these still happen is disheartening.

    I'm not trying to deflect attention off the US, as we have a long way to go in eliminating racism. The fact that the acts you detailed above happened on college campuses and schools is the worst. Hopefully if we can continue to educate our generation and the ones after us, we can stamp out this hate.

    Europe? Close to erasing racism? You and I must've experienced two very different Europes.

    You can't generalize Europe. In England, if you're Indian/Pakistani, racism is most assuredly in your face, constantly. If you're in France and Middle-Eastern, same thing. If you're in Spain and of Eastern European descent, same issue. If you're in Eastern Europe and are African, in Norway and are Nigerian... you get the idea. Oh, and if you're Jewish and anywhere in the old world, old hatreds die hard.

    Of all of those, the only people that seem to have a positive stereotype, and get picked on less, and I'm not sure why, are most east Asians (China, Vietnam, Japan).

    Raakam on
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    Edgler VessEdgler Vess Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Raakam wrote: »

    I guess the big question is....From what I have heard other countries and places (England comes instantly to mind) doesn't seem to have the same problems that we do. That they seemed to have at least more or less solved thier racism problems and we can't.

    I wouldn't go this far. There still is tension in Europe over various groups. The world soccer organization FIFA has initated polices in the last few years specifically to attempt to end racism not just in football but in society. There were some pretty high profile events even in the past few years during sporting events targeted at blacks, Jews, and other minorities, and this is just within one part of the sporting world. Yes, these hooligans don't represent the larger whole, but the fact that things like these still happen is disheartening.

    I'm not trying to deflect attention off the US, as we have a long way to go in eliminating racism. The fact that the acts you detailed above happened on college campuses and schools is the worst. Hopefully if we can continue to educate our generation and the ones after us, we can stamp out this hate.

    Europe? Close to erasing racism? You and I must've experienced two very different Europes.

    You can't generalize Europe. In England, if you're Indian/Pakistani, racism is most assuredly in your face, constantly. If you're in France and Middle-Eastern, same thing. If you're in Spain and of Eastern European descent, same issue. If you're in Eastern Europe and are African, in Norway and are Nigerian... you get the idea. Oh, and if you're Jewish and anywhere in the old world, old hatreds die hard.

    Of all of those, the only people that seem to have a positive stereotype, and get picked on less, and I'm not sure why, are most east Asians (China, Vietnam, Japan).

    Hrm, guess maybe I should have been more specific, England seems to (from what ive seen and heard on Television) have gotten over the Black/White thing. Religious racism is probably too deeply ingraned everywhere for anyone to get over that. But I would like to see progress in America color of skin wise such as what is in England.

    Edgler Vess on
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    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    In Britain it's blacks and whites against Muslims, yo.

    Æthelred on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    In Britain it's blacks and whites against Muslims, yo.

    And gingers.

    Incenjucar on
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    Zombie NirvanaZombie Nirvana Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    You don't hear about it from other countries because they are liars, have a completely oppressed minority, or have a homogenous population. America is the least racist country on earth.

    Zombie Nirvana on
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    RussellRussell Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    A lot of it seems to be just cultural isolation. America has always been a salad bowl, not a melting pot. It's hard to truly empathise with or understand another person's world view (outside of your own culture's) if you only spend time people of your own ethnicity or culture. This factor around the board too, not just with racist southern whites.

    Russell on
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    Zombie NirvanaZombie Nirvana Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Russell wrote: »
    A lot of it seems to be just cultural isolation. America has always been a salad bowl, not a melting pot. It's hard to truly empathise with or understand another person's world view (outside of your own culture's) if you only spend time people of your own ethnicity or culture. This factor around the board too, not just with racist southern whites.

    Yeah and some of the "least racist" are placed like San Fran who are A-ok with black so long as they stay in Oakland. Give me a break.

    Zombie Nirvana on
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    I don't want to trivialize the pain and alienation of millions of Americans (as some of them are my close friends), but the racism to which American minorities are subjected is nothing compared to much of the world. Again, I don't mean to say that this 'undermines' the terrible injustice of racism in America, but it's incorrect to posit that America is the last terminal of racial bigotry, or anything. I'd say we're way above many.

    Organichu on
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    ValkunValkun Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Having lived in Vegas most of my life, I've very rarely seen honest to goodness racism displayed here. Aside from the parents of a girl I used to date, I've just never been exposed to it, judging people like that seems very alien. Even as a Republican, none of my conservative associates have ever mentioned distaste for Obama because of his skin color. At most, they'd express concern that some people are voting for him because of his race.

    In a few months, I'll be training at Maxwell AFB located right at the famous Montgomery of bus boycott fame. I have to wonder if the local populace there will open my eyes and generate disgust at my fellow Americans. As the spawn of a mixed race couple and a rational human being, I really hope that attitude is not prevalent within the average person.

    Valkun on
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    RussellRussell Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Russell wrote: »
    A lot of it seems to be just cultural isolation. America has always been a salad bowl, not a melting pot. It's hard to truly empathise with or understand another person's world view (outside of your own culture's) if you only spend time people of your own ethnicity or culture. This factor around the board too, not just with racist southern whites.

    Yeah and some of the "least racist" are placed like San Fran who are A-ok with black so long as they stay in Oakland. Give me a break.


    Just because you live in San Francisco, doesn't mean you aren't socially isolated. Yuppies can live in a bubble too. Let me clarify, by spend time with, I don't mean being able to say, 'Oh, oh I have a black friend! I'm not racist!'. What I mean, being inside the culture to a meaningful extent.

    Russell on
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    Edgler VessEdgler Vess Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Valkun wrote: »
    Having lived in Vegas most of my life, I've very rarely seen honest to goodness racism displayed here. Aside from the parents of a girl I used to date, I've just never been exposed to it, judging people like that seems very alien. Even as a Republican, none of my conservative associates have ever mentioned distaste for Obama because of his skin color. At most, they'd express concern that some people are voting for him because of his race.

    In a few months, I'll be training at Maxwell AFB located right at the famous Montgomery of bus boycott fame. I have to wonder if the local populace there will open my eyes and generate disgust at my fellow Americans. As the spawn of a mixed race couple and a rational human being, I really hope that attitude is not prevalent within the average person.

    Prepare for culture shock, as I said in my OP, the racism is here but you'll find, as I have.....that its strange because its buried.....just amazingly close to the surface. On the other hand if your going to Maxwell for boot camp, you wont see any of it...at all.

    I served in the military for almost 10 years and they have been about 99%) succesful at rooting out racism (No tolerance policy). In the service? Wanna lose your job/get kicked out/dishonorably discharged? No need to pretend to be gay or get in any real trouble it's easy...start throwing around racist slurs, youll be gone so fast your head will spin.

    Edgler Vess on
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    Delicious SteveDelicious Steve Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I'm Australian, and when i was younger we had a little statue of an ACTUALLY black coloured statue, in the middle of a commercial street. At the time i had no idea it was actually supposed to represent people with darker skin than myself, and was supposed to degrade my opinion of them. But at the end of the day, Nationality exists, Religion Exists, Culture Exists but when someone mentions race my first thought is "that doesn't exist"

    When somebody says "Barack (sp?) Obama is a black man" i think really? even though his grandmother was quite clearly pale skinned, and quite clearly not an African-American. Wouldn't you say he's (and im not sure on the ratio here one bit) 3/4ths black 1/4th white? well how do you pigeon hole that? he's not completely one race, not completely another. Technically he's a white man becoming president, technically all the "blacks" of America should be angry that he isn't a purebreed, so-to-speak. Technically a white person killing him is killing another white person are they not?

    That's why i can't take the idea of "race" seriously, it's just another word to divide human beings, 100 years ago religion/culture/nationality were much more-so mutually exclusive and it was generalised as "race", but in the current times i think people have realised that you can very easily swap each of those factors out, people are individuals, and people who cling to the idea of there being "races" are all contributing to racism. Think about it, why divide yourselves into categories if there is no real difference there?

    Delicious Steve on
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    Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    well i usually dont post at home but i just got done watching a movie and this thread interested me enough to post at home instead of waiting for monday.

    my initial thought come wednesday 15th when all the votes were tallied was, "isn't it racist to vote for the black candidate just because he is black and you are black?" (and yes statistically some people did vote that way for that reason)

    which i guess it kinda is.... if you look at racism in the most basic definition of the word. however, the fact that people associate with other people that share their views, hobbies and experiences is normal. for instance a board dedicated to video games where gamers come to talk about their ideals which happen to coincide in many cases?

    but then i have to look at the current definition of racism. it is racist profiling to think that a black person is a criminal despite the fact that they do have a higher likelihood of commiting a crime (someone else can cite this if they want). its also racist profiling to think that every muslim/middle easterner/indian (this one always confused me) is a terrorist. maybe its just the high profile cases that lend credence to that stereotype, maybe the stereotype reinforces itself and maybe cultural factors lead to this fact (i believe all three). but my point is that there are discernable differences between races that lead people to make determinations based on someones race - the basic definition of racism.

    i guess my point boils down to, is it racist to say that black people are better at basketball and asian people are better at math? or is it only racist to commit a negative act based on someones race? personally, i think that using the negative definition just leads to more problems simply because someone who hires an asian person because they are statistically better at math is in essence not hiring a (for example) mecican person because they are statistically worse (for example).

    i think the only real way to erradicate racism is to judge each person not on the first impression but on a collage of their actions and views. i doubt that all of the world will be able to do that so i don't think that racism will ever be completely eliminated.



    but if you are talking about violent racism here i think it is far less prevalent than it is made out to be, the op selected 9 instances depicting violent racism in up to perhaps 30 people out of 300 million. all in rural areas and some with motives that might not even be violent racism. sure you can find more cases of violent rasist ideals but violent racist actions are rarer today than they have ever been.



    anyway thats my speal on racist coming from a mixed family.

    Dunadan019 on
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    NATIKNATIK DenmarkRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I have never been to america and I can only judge it on second hand accounts, but it does not seem to me that you guys are more racist then we are in Europe, it's just focussed differently and based on different things.

    My experience as a citizen of Denmark follows:

    We have racism and a lot of it (one of the parties in power (government support party) is running on a "Denmark for danes, screw everyone else and keep them out" platform, it is widely known, yet they get a lot of votes, Nazism is one the rise, especially where I live, I think my local football team is the only danish team to have a neonazi supportgroup.

    The racism is cultural though, not skin colour based, if your name is a typical danish name and you like beer, herring, schnaps and football (soccer) it is doubtful you are going to encounter much racism no matter your skin colour, unless you run into real wackos like the above mentioned neonazis, but if you deviate from the standard danish, you're going to encounter racism.

    I will also agree with one of the above posters that Jews are generally disliked/hated, in Denmark it dosn't come up a lot but it is none the less true and I have to admit I am guilty of disliking jews (this is dispite of the fact that I have german jewish ancestors who fled from Germany to Denmark during WW2) more then any other population group I can think of with the exception of people from Somalia whom EVERYONE I have met hate, even other refugees/immigrants.

    Racism is alive and well in Europe, even in the nation who pretty consistently gets called the happiest nation on Earth.

    NATIK on
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    Low KeyLow Key Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Obama's black because no one looks at a dark skinned guy and goes "Oh no worries, that guy's an octoroon, guess it's safe to walk on his side of the street."

    I find it kinda interesting that Americans, generally, are the most racially aware people I've ever met. They've got the same ingrained racism that everybody else has, but they tend to be way more concious of it and quick to condemn it. Australians are really thoughtlessly racist and everyone's a wog or a boong or leb and it's all fun and laughs until someone starts a race riot. The Americans I've met (who all from the East and West coasts or big colleges, cos those are the ones who tend to travel I guess) would be totally scandalised by that type of racist humour but are always the first to laung into a ten minute speech about why the African Union is destined to fail because black people can't organise properly. America doesn't seem any more or less racist but I find that Americans individually are more aware of race than any other western nationalities I've met.

    Low Key on
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    thanimationsthanimations Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Raakam wrote: »

    I guess the big question is....From what I have heard other countries and places (England comes instantly to mind) doesn't seem to have the same problems that we do. That they seemed to have at least more or less solved thier racism problems and we can't.

    I wouldn't go this far. There still is tension in Europe over various groups. The world soccer organization FIFA has initated polices in the last few years specifically to attempt to end racism not just in football but in society. There were some pretty high profile events even in the past few years during sporting events targeted at blacks, Jews, and other minorities, and this is just within one part of the sporting world. Yes, these hooligans don't represent the larger whole, but the fact that things like these still happen is disheartening.

    I'm not trying to deflect attention off the US, as we have a long way to go in eliminating racism. The fact that the acts you detailed above happened on college campuses and schools is the worst. Hopefully if we can continue to educate our generation and the ones after us, we can stamp out this hate.

    Europe? Close to erasing racism? You and I must've experienced two very different Europes.

    You can't generalize Europe. In England, if you're Indian/Pakistani, racism is most assuredly in your face, constantly. If you're in France and Middle-Eastern, same thing. If you're in Spain and of Eastern European descent, same issue. If you're in Eastern Europe and are African, in Norway and are Nigerian... you get the idea. Oh, and if you're Jewish and anywhere in the old world, old hatreds die hard.

    Of all of those, the only people that seem to have a positive stereotype, and get picked on less, and I'm not sure why, are most east Asians (China, Vietnam, Japan).

    Yep, we're arguing essentially the same point. I was using the football examples as how even one of the most popular sports on the continent is trying to raise awareness. It'd be like the NFL saying "let's end racism." The fact that FIFA felt it needed to make a stand implies something more than just a little racial uneasiness.

    So then the question becomes, how do we fight and deminish racism?

    thanimations on
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    Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    If they're from New York, they're probably offended because from what I just read, Australian racist humor sucks.

    Ethan Smith on
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    Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    When people are scare of change they cling to their guns and religion.

    Casually Hardcore on
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    ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Raakam wrote: »

    I guess the big question is....From what I have heard other countries and places (England comes instantly to mind) doesn't seem to have the same problems that we do. That they seemed to have at least more or less solved thier racism problems and we can't.

    I wouldn't go this far. There still is tension in Europe over various groups. The world soccer organization FIFA has initated polices in the last few years specifically to attempt to end racism not just in football but in society. There were some pretty high profile events even in the past few years during sporting events targeted at blacks, Jews, and other minorities, and this is just within one part of the sporting world. Yes, these hooligans don't represent the larger whole, but the fact that things like these still happen is disheartening.

    I'm not trying to deflect attention off the US, as we have a long way to go in eliminating racism. The fact that the acts you detailed above happened on college campuses and schools is the worst. Hopefully if we can continue to educate our generation and the ones after us, we can stamp out this hate.

    Europe? Close to erasing racism? You and I must've experienced two very different Europes.

    You can't generalize Europe. In England, if you're Indian/Pakistani, racism is most assuredly in your face, constantly. If you're in France and Middle-Eastern, same thing. If you're in Spain and of Eastern European descent, same issue. If you're in Eastern Europe and are African, in Norway and are Nigerian... you get the idea. Oh, and if you're Jewish and anywhere in the old world, old hatreds die hard.

    Of all of those, the only people that seem to have a positive stereotype, and get picked on less, and I'm not sure why, are most east Asians (China, Vietnam, Japan).

    Yep, we're arguing essentially the same point. I was using the football examples as how even one of the most popular sports on the continent is trying to raise awareness. It'd be like the NFL saying "let's end racism." The fact that FIFA felt it needed to make a stand implies something more than just a little racial uneasiness.

    So then the question becomes, how do we fight and deminish racism?

    Universal military service. If everybody went through training camp hell together, the only main negative predisposition would be towards officers, especially drill sergeants.


    Israeli people are, for the most part, more regionalist than racist. They are very good about Israeli Arabs, but aren't as nice towards Palestinians. Institutionally, however, Israel is a mess. Employers regularly specify that only those who have served should apply, which excludes all but a very few Arabs and Heredim, as both groups are exempted from mandatory military service, and only Bedouins are encouraged to join (only source of social mobility for them).

    Scalfin on
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    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    I wouldn't say that it's "very few". The number of people exempt from service is rather substantial.

    Organichu on
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    Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    a half-black president? What's next, a half monkey president???

    Randall_Flagg on
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    Someone did that with me when I suggested that gay marriage wasn't this horrible sin.

    "What's next? Marrying a dolphin?"

    Organichu on
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    SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Organichu wrote: »
    Someone did that with me when I suggested that gay marriage wasn't this horrible sin.

    "What's next? Marrying a dolphin?"

    I usually just stare at people who say something like that until they change the subject.

    Speaker on
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    Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Someone did that with me when I suggested that gay marriage wasn't this horrible sin.

    "What's next? Marrying a dolphin?"

    I usually just stare at people who say something like that until they change the subject.

    The opened mouth is required here as well.

    Ethan Smith on
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    Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    I'm Australian, and when i was younger we had a little statue of an ACTUALLY black coloured statue, in the middle of a commercial street. At the time i had no idea it was actually supposed to represent people with darker skin than myself, and was supposed to degrade my opinion of them. But at the end of the day, Nationality exists, Religion Exists, Culture Exists but when someone mentions race my first thought is "that doesn't exist"

    When somebody says "Barack (sp?) Obama is a black man" i think really? even though his grandmother was quite clearly pale skinned, and quite clearly not an African-American. Wouldn't you say he's (and im not sure on the ratio here one bit) 3/4ths black 1/4th white? well how do you pigeon hole that? he's not completely one race, not completely another. Technically he's a white man becoming president, technically all the "blacks" of America should be angry that he isn't a purebreed, so-to-speak. Technically a white person killing him is killing another white person are they not?

    That's why i can't take the idea of "race" seriously, it's just another word to divide human beings, 100 years ago religion/culture/nationality were much more-so mutually exclusive and it was generalised as "race", but in the current times i think people have realised that you can very easily swap each of those factors out, people are individuals, and people who cling to the idea of there being "races" are all contributing to racism. Think about it, why divide yourselves into categories if there is no real difference there?

    Well, he's actually 1/2 and 1/2. His father was full blooded Kenyan, and his mother was pure-white Kansan. But that's really how it is unfortunately. You're either pure white, or you're not white at all. That's what pissed me off so goddamn much when people like Jesse Jackson and Ralph Nader started bitching that Obama wasn't "black enough". Gee... I wonder why he might not act black. Couldn't possibly be the fact that he was raised by three white people. Nope. Not at all.

    Bionic Monkey on
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    Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Annoying fact about the "1/2 and 1/2" thing. I was working as a Camp Councilor for a ton of rich kids this summer. They were generally good kids, kids who's parents were highly successful Upper East side types, who pressured their kids to succeed, so having them loosen up during the course during the summer was awesome.

    But one day I was wearing an Obama T-shirt (not a blatant one, just one with his face on it), and this one kid AJ spilled punch on it.
    "What the heck, AJ?" I asked, "why did you spill that on me?"
    "Obama shouldn't become president", he said, "he's African American"
    I was...pissed at that. "What are you talking about?"
    "He's only half American"
    "I'm half French, does that mean I can't get elected?"
    "Yeah, you're half and half!"
    The kid's parents were both Russian immigrants.

    (In the end, they gave me a 200 dollar tip, so I was less pissed about that, but GOD)

    Ethan Smith on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    It's always fun hearing some WASP asshole talking about ethnicities like I'm some kind of insider, and then noting that I'm part Native American.

    They always say that they were joking after that.

    Incenjucar on
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    OmeksOmeks Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's always fun hearing some WASP asshole talking about ethnicities like I'm some kind of insider, and then noting that I'm part Native American.

    They always say that they were joking after that.

    That might be an interesting endeavor for me to take on sometime. Considering I'm technically "half and half."

    Me: Buddy, I'll have you know I'm half and half.

    Guy: Oh shit, I was just kidding. I didn't really mean that shit. Drunken ramblin', you know.

    Me: Yeah, I'm half Amercian, half British.

    Guy: Oh, in that case, *RACIST BUUUUUUULSHIIIIIIT CONTINUES!!!*

    Omeks on
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    Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Omeks wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's always fun hearing some WASP asshole talking about ethnicities like I'm some kind of insider, and then noting that I'm part Native American.

    They always say that they were joking after that.

    That might be an interesting endeavor for me to take on sometime. Considering I'm technically "half and half."

    Me: Buddy, I'll have you know I'm half and half.

    Guy: Oh shit, I was just kidding. I didn't really mean that shit. Drunken ramblin', you know.

    Me: Yeah, I'm half Amercian, half British.

    Guy: Oh, in that case, *RACIST BUUUUUUULSHIIIIIIT CONTINUES!!!*

    You're aware that 1/4th of me saved 1/2 of your ass in WW2, correct?

    That is, when it wasn't saving the French half from the Krauts and drinking with the Irish Quarter.

    Ethan Smith on
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    LurkLurk Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Organichu wrote: »
    Someone did that with me when I suggested that gay marriage wasn't this horrible sin.

    "What's next? Marrying a dolphin?"

    They were too late.

    Lurk on
    415429-1.png?1281464977
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    OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Low Key wrote: »
    Obama's black because no one looks at a dark skinned guy and goes "Oh no worries, that guy's an octoroon, guess it's safe to walk on his side of the street."

    I find it kinda interesting that Americans, generally, are the most racially aware people I've ever met. They've got the same ingrained racism that everybody else has, but they tend to be way more concious of it and quick to condemn it. Australians are really thoughtlessly racist and everyone's a wog or a boong or leb and it's all fun and laughs until someone starts a race riot. The Americans I've met (who all from the East and West coasts or big colleges, cos those are the ones who tend to travel I guess) would be totally scandalised by that type of racist humour but are always the first to laung into a ten minute speech about why the African Union is destined to fail because black people can't organise properly. America doesn't seem any more or less racist but I find that Americans individually are more aware of race than any other western nationalities I've met.

    I don't know about comparative levels of racism (that's something which can't really be determined specifically), but the self-awareness is because of our nation's widespread complicity in slavery; we're intensely self-conscious about racism because we remember the horrors our ancestors inflicted in its name.

    OremLK on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    OremLK wrote: »
    Low Key wrote: »
    Obama's black because no one looks at a dark skinned guy and goes "Oh no worries, that guy's an octoroon, guess it's safe to walk on his side of the street."

    I find it kinda interesting that Americans, generally, are the most racially aware people I've ever met. They've got the same ingrained racism that everybody else has, but they tend to be way more concious of it and quick to condemn it. Australians are really thoughtlessly racist and everyone's a wog or a boong or leb and it's all fun and laughs until someone starts a race riot. The Americans I've met (who all from the East and West coasts or big colleges, cos those are the ones who tend to travel I guess) would be totally scandalised by that type of racist humour but are always the first to laung into a ten minute speech about why the African Union is destined to fail because black people can't organise properly. America doesn't seem any more or less racist but I find that Americans individually are more aware of race than any other western nationalities I've met.

    I don't know about comparative levels of racism (that's something which can't really be determined specifically), but the self-awareness is because of our nation's widespread complicity in slavery; we're intensely self-conscious about racism because we remember the horrors our ancestors inflicted in its name.

    I think England pulled a lot more shit on a lot more people and tends to have less collective guilt about it.

    Sam on
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    ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Organichu wrote: »
    I wouldn't say that it's "very few". The number of people exempt from service is rather substantial.

    Hence "all BUT a few.":P

    Scalfin on
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    OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    OremLK wrote: »
    Low Key wrote: »
    Obama's black because no one looks at a dark skinned guy and goes "Oh no worries, that guy's an octoroon, guess it's safe to walk on his side of the street."

    I find it kinda interesting that Americans, generally, are the most racially aware people I've ever met. They've got the same ingrained racism that everybody else has, but they tend to be way more concious of it and quick to condemn it. Australians are really thoughtlessly racist and everyone's a wog or a boong or leb and it's all fun and laughs until someone starts a race riot. The Americans I've met (who all from the East and West coasts or big colleges, cos those are the ones who tend to travel I guess) would be totally scandalised by that type of racist humour but are always the first to laung into a ten minute speech about why the African Union is destined to fail because black people can't organise properly. America doesn't seem any more or less racist but I find that Americans individually are more aware of race than any other western nationalities I've met.

    I don't know about comparative levels of racism (that's something which can't really be determined specifically), but the self-awareness is because of our nation's widespread complicity in slavery; we're intensely self-conscious about racism because we remember the horrors our ancestors inflicted in its name.

    I think England pulled a lot more shit on a lot more people and tends to have less collective guilt about it.

    Are you referring to imperialism? I don't know if it's the same. Didn't most oppression occur far away from home? With slavery, it was right under our noses and we still didn't do anything about it for a century.

    OremLK on
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    Low KeyLow Key Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    OremLK wrote: »
    Low Key wrote: »
    Obama's black because no one looks at a dark skinned guy and goes "Oh no worries, that guy's an octoroon, guess it's safe to walk on his side of the street."

    I find it kinda interesting that Americans, generally, are the most racially aware people I've ever met. They've got the same ingrained racism that everybody else has, but they tend to be way more concious of it and quick to condemn it. Australians are really thoughtlessly racist and everyone's a wog or a boong or leb and it's all fun and laughs until someone starts a race riot. The Americans I've met (who all from the East and West coasts or big colleges, cos those are the ones who tend to travel I guess) would be totally scandalised by that type of racist humour but are always the first to laung into a ten minute speech about why the African Union is destined to fail because black people can't organise properly. America doesn't seem any more or less racist but I find that Americans individually are more aware of race than any other western nationalities I've met.

    I don't know about comparative levels of racism (that's something which can't really be determined specifically), but the self-awareness is because of our nation's widespread complicity in slavery; we're intensely self-conscious about racism because we remember the horrors our ancestors inflicted in its name.

    For sure it's impossible to quantify racism except in some really broad ways, but it's been very noticeable for me how concious Americans tend to be of racism as a structural component of their social history. It doesn't necessarily make you a less prejudiced person, but it does, if anything, make you a lot more goal oriented in your discussion of race.

    Historically I think your civil rights movement had a lot more to do with this than the actual slave trade itself. That was such an open, devastating and relatively recent attack on the status quo. I can't imagine it hasn't majorly touched the country's culture and the way social mobility is regarded.

    Low Key on
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    OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    I wouldn't say that it's "very few". The number of people exempt from service is rather substantial.

    Hence "all BUT a few.":P

    Ah ok.

    ---

    Man I've been to Dolphin Reef. I think I remember that dolphin- his dong was gigantic. No wonder.

    ---

    Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo... laws against racial hate speech. Good or bad?

    Organichu on
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    OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Low Key wrote: »
    OremLK wrote: »
    Low Key wrote: »
    Obama's black because no one looks at a dark skinned guy and goes "Oh no worries, that guy's an octoroon, guess it's safe to walk on his side of the street."

    I find it kinda interesting that Americans, generally, are the most racially aware people I've ever met. They've got the same ingrained racism that everybody else has, but they tend to be way more concious of it and quick to condemn it. Australians are really thoughtlessly racist and everyone's a wog or a boong or leb and it's all fun and laughs until someone starts a race riot. The Americans I've met (who all from the East and West coasts or big colleges, cos those are the ones who tend to travel I guess) would be totally scandalised by that type of racist humour but are always the first to laung into a ten minute speech about why the African Union is destined to fail because black people can't organise properly. America doesn't seem any more or less racist but I find that Americans individually are more aware of race than any other western nationalities I've met.

    I don't know about comparative levels of racism (that's something which can't really be determined specifically), but the self-awareness is because of our nation's widespread complicity in slavery; we're intensely self-conscious about racism because we remember the horrors our ancestors inflicted in its name.

    For sure it's impossible to quantify racism except in some really broad ways, but it's been very noticeable for me how concious Americans tend to be of racism as a structural component of their social history. It doesn't necessarily make you a less prejudiced person, but it does, if anything, make you a lot more goal oriented in your discussion of race.

    Historically I think your civil rights movement had a lot more to do with this than the actual slave trade itself. That was such an open, devastating and relatively recent attack on the status quo. I can't imagine it hasn't majorly touched the country's culture and the way social mobility is regarded.

    I agree there, but then, you can trace the way we treated blacks up until the civil rights movement directly to slavery, so I'll stand by my statement that slavery was the ultimate cause.

    OremLK on
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