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a DJ question for DJ's

EliminationElimination Registered User regular
edited November 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
Ok well i am just starting out DJing and am now picking up my own gear instead of using my friends (Who is one of the top DJ's in the city i live in.) and so i have a question just to tally it up a bit....i can't really decide which....Vinyl or CD tables? I know there are advantages and disadvantages to both of them. If i go CD it will be single top loading just for information purposes. I also know pitch bending is waaay easier on CD tables...but manipulation in general is easier with vinyl...hmm so i am calling out to those who have some knowledge, gimme some constructive insight?

PSN: PA_Elimination 3DS: 4399-2012-1711 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/TheElimination/
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    KivutarKivutar Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Vinyl is the only answer.

    Kivutar on
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    EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Kivutar wrote: »
    Vinyl is the only answer.

    Why though...? what makes it so much better is what i am looking for.

    Elimination on
    PSN: PA_Elimination 3DS: 4399-2012-1711 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/TheElimination/
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    ApexMirageApexMirage Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Most if not all CDJs have a vynil function, which turns the top into pseudo-vinyl. You can scratch it, manually advance it or cue drop it if thats your bag for whatever reason (there's no reason to do this IMO, you've got technology on your side, so use it)
    The only thing i can think of that you can do on vinyl but not a CDJ is pick up the needle and drop it somewhere else, but you can jog a CDJ fast enough that its not a reasonable complaint, as it can be wildly innacurate and unreliable anyway.
    There's no beating the Cue button for instant perfectly timed cues dropped live, which can be really messy with vinyls to a novice.
    Most will argue sound quality, but as long as your MP3's are in 320, you wont notice a difference.

    Oh and lets not forget cost. You're paying for every song you buy on vinyl, and that WILL add up incredibly fast, especially if you're starting with nothing. Assuming you're not spinning clubs, you can just use the music you already have, which is already a great plus as you're most likely quite familiar with it. Having MP3's also lets you mess around with the plethora of software available (Ableton, Mixmeister, VDJ, etc) There's also nothing more frustrating then getting an awesome new track as an MP3, and then not being able to find a Vinyl version anywhere.

    ApexMirage on
    I'd love to be the one disappoint you when I don't fall down
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    EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ApexMirage wrote: »
    Most if not all CDJs have a vynil function, which turns the top into pseudo-vinyl. You can scratch it, manually advance it or cue drop it if thats your bag for whatever reason (there's no reason to do this IMO, you've got technology on your side, so use it)
    The only thing i can think of that you can do on vinyl but not a CDJ is pick up the needle and drop it somewhere else, but you can jog a CDJ fast enough that its not a reasonable complaint, as it can be wildly innacurate and unreliable anyway.
    There's no beating the Cue button for instant perfectly timed cues dropped live, which can be really messy with vinyls to a novice.
    Most will argue sound quality, but as long as your MP3's are in 320, you wont notice a difference.

    Yeah the single top loading models usually have the vynil scratching functions you're talking about which was what i was looking at on that front. But sound quality is always nice...so far am i leaning toward CDJ...but i just dont know 100%, and seeing as this stuff is a big investment for me quality of the equipment is also a big factor. Links to some tables people here already use might help me as well and give me an idea of some good choices...i will also be asking around with the DJ's i promote for here at home too and see what they say since i havn't asked much from them yet.

    Elimination on
    PSN: PA_Elimination 3DS: 4399-2012-1711 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/TheElimination/
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    ApexMirageApexMirage Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Like i said, quality is fantastic on a 320. Check your mp3s, I'm sure you'll find that most are not 320, which is why they sound poor. You'll need to dig up some 320s through either pay sources such as Beatport.com or juno.co.uk or through other means that you can PM me about =p

    ApexMirage on
    I'd love to be the one disappoint you when I don't fall down
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    A lot of the clubs in San Diego do not allow for Vinyl DJs, sad yeah, but it's too easy to screw up. If you plan on just doing traditional DJing for family/friend events, go vinyl. I have more fun spinning Vinyl than I do CDs.

    But if you plan on doing it for money, you need to go with digital turn tables, gigs will be a lot easier to find.

    Bendery It Like Beckham on
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    EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ApexMirage wrote: »
    Like i said, quality is fantastic on a 320. Check your mp3s, I'm sure you'll find that most are not 320, which is why they sound poor. You'll need to dig up some 320s through either pay sources such as Beatport.com or juno.co.uk or through other means that you can PM me about =p

    Thats not too much of a problem seeing as i create a lot of original tracks beat for beat. :winky: But there are a few songs i wouldn't mind sneaking under the radar from time to time. And you are right many MP3's are not 320 unless i rip them myself.

    Elimination on
    PSN: PA_Elimination 3DS: 4399-2012-1711 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/TheElimination/
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    EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    A lot of the clubs in San Diego do not allow for Vinyl DJs, sad yeah, but it's too easy to screw up. If you plan on just doing traditional DJing for family/friend events, go vinyl. I have more fun spinning Vinyl than I do CDs.

    But if you plan on doing it for money, you need to go with digital turn tables, gigs will be a lot easier to find.

    Thats actually really good info. That would explain why a lot of my friends use these vinyl tables at the after parties in their homes but spin CD's when in the club. I never made that connection.

    Elimination on
    PSN: PA_Elimination 3DS: 4399-2012-1711 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/TheElimination/
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    EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    If you're just starting out, starting on CDs is a fine way to get used to it. It depends on where you want to take it, IMO. If you're into turntablism, then of course you should go vinyl because many of the tricks are vinyl-only, not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    But CDs are cheap and plentiful, so if you start there, you're not really missing anything.

    EggyToast on
    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
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    ApexMirageApexMirage Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    EggyToast wrote: »
    If you're just starting out, starting on CDs is a fine way to get used to it. It depends on where you want to take it, IMO. If you're into turntablism, then of course you should go vinyl because many of the tricks are vinyl-only, not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    But CDs are cheap and plentiful, so if you start there, you're not really missing anything.

    There's no such thing as vinyl only anymore. And what are you talking about with this?
    not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    ApexMirage on
    I'd love to be the one disappoint you when I don't fall down
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I know DJ gear can be heavy, but why burden yourself with the added weight of vinyl?

    Improvolone on
    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
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    SarcastroSarcastro Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Most of the local spin artists I know have both, but they focus on CD's as their primary gear for events and vinyl for the love.

    Sarcastro on
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    EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ApexMirage wrote: »
    EggyToast wrote: »
    If you're just starting out, starting on CDs is a fine way to get used to it. It depends on where you want to take it, IMO. If you're into turntablism, then of course you should go vinyl because many of the tricks are vinyl-only, not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    But CDs are cheap and plentiful, so if you start there, you're not really missing anything.

    There's no such thing as vinyl only anymore. And what are you talking about with this?
    not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    The tricks are vinyl only. Like mentioned above, taping records to create loops, cue spots, and so on. Elements of turntablism, beyond just being a DJ.

    As for the second thing, with vinyl there's no wait to cue up what's next, compared to waiting for the laser to read the disk. Slap it on, place the needle.

    If you were to attempt to use a CD system to create songs, similar to how turntablists do, you'd have to cut & paste in an audio editor at home, and then prep CDs, at which point you're just making music at home and playing it back later on.

    In other words, if the dude wants to be a DJ in terms of Qbert or Kid Koala or something, he should just focus on vinyl. I don't get that impression from him, which is why I think CDs would be fine.

    EggyToast on
    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
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    Gilbert0Gilbert0 North of SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    There is another option. Digital DJ with laptop/midi/vinyl. Here's a pic of the setup. http://www.rane.com/scratch.html#gpm1_5 . Don't need CDJ's to burn all your music to and you play with vinyl.

    Check out what Serato Scratch (Sasha, DJ Marky, Jazzy Jeff), Torq (DJ Heather), Abelton (Richie Hawtin) are.

    Gilbert0 on
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    ApexMirageApexMirage Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    EggyToast wrote: »
    ApexMirage wrote: »
    EggyToast wrote: »
    If you're just starting out, starting on CDs is a fine way to get used to it. It depends on where you want to take it, IMO. If you're into turntablism, then of course you should go vinyl because many of the tricks are vinyl-only, not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    But CDs are cheap and plentiful, so if you start there, you're not really missing anything.

    There's no such thing as vinyl only anymore. And what are you talking about with this?
    not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    The tricks are vinyl only. Like mentioned above, taping records to create loops, cue spots, and so on. Elements of turntablism, beyond just being a DJ.

    As for the second thing, with vinyl there's no wait to cue up what's next, compared to waiting for the laser to read the disk. Slap it on, place the needle.

    If you were to attempt to use a CD system to create songs, similar to how turntablists do, you'd have to cut & paste in an audio editor at home, and then prep CDs, at which point you're just making music at home and playing it back later on.

    In other words, if the dude wants to be a DJ in terms of Qbert or Kid Koala or something, he should just focus on vinyl. I don't get that impression from him, which is why I think CDs would be fine.

    I'm totally confused. To be fair I've never used vinyl myself, but loops/cues are vinyl only tricks? but how exactly would you go about doing either of these things with vinyl? and how are you unable to do them with CDJs? If you could maybe elaborate on what you mean, I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding.

    As for the other part, the wait for the laser to read it is really minimal. If you're trying to shave of mere seconds you're trying to go way too fast IMO. And is it not much faster to have 10 or so songs ready to go at the press of a button rather then fumbling around a box of records?

    ApexMirage on
    I'd love to be the one disappoint you when I don't fall down
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    PheezerPheezer Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    It depends on what you're playing.

    There are certain subcultures wherein you will not be taken seriously playing CDs. At all.

    There are certain subcultures wherein you will have a very hard time finding really good remixes, singles or rarities on CD.

    These can be very good reasons to get turntables. Depending on what you're doing this may or may not be necessary. If nothing else, I'd recommend keeping an open mind towards eventually investing in turntables and starting out on CD decks.

    Pheezer on
    IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
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    EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    EggyToast wrote: »
    ApexMirage wrote: »
    EggyToast wrote: »
    If you're just starting out, starting on CDs is a fine way to get used to it. It depends on where you want to take it, IMO. If you're into turntablism, then of course you should go vinyl because many of the tricks are vinyl-only, not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    But CDs are cheap and plentiful, so if you start there, you're not really missing anything.

    There's no such thing as vinyl only anymore. And what are you talking about with this?
    not to mention the speed you need to switch between shit.

    The tricks are vinyl only. Like mentioned above, taping records to create loops, cue spots, and so on. Elements of turntablism, beyond just being a DJ.

    As for the second thing, with vinyl there's no wait to cue up what's next, compared to waiting for the laser to read the disk. Slap it on, place the needle.

    If you were to attempt to use a CD system to create songs, similar to how turntablists do, you'd have to cut & paste in an audio editor at home, and then prep CDs, at which point you're just making music at home and playing it back later on. See for me i will be creating a lot of original tracks beat for beat as well, so pure vynil will not help me much in that aspect as i cannot cut vynil at home...but its a nice feel, vynil.

    In other words, if the dude wants to be a DJ in terms of Qbert or Kid Koala or something, he should just focus on vinyl. I don't get that impression from him, which is why I think CDs would be fine.

    Actually with the more modern CD tables you can create cue spots, loops, and tap because the single top loading CD tables are set up to look and feel like vynil which is what, so far, i am thinking of going for based on most peoples advice.

    Elimination on
    PSN: PA_Elimination 3DS: 4399-2012-1711 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/TheElimination/
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    ApexMirageApexMirage Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    That's what I was saying... with the flick of a switch, they're meant to be able to behave just like vinyl.

    ApexMirage on
    I'd love to be the one disappoint you when I don't fall down
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    TokyoRaverTokyoRaver Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Been doing this for ten years now, still very active in the electronic music scene.

    I will tell you that CDs are no longer treated with scorn and derision as they once were. If you're just getting started, at this point, as great as vinyl is (my home setup is two Technics M3Ds with Serato Scratch Live) it's cumbersome, expensive, and as someone previously mentioned, more and more frequently unsupported, especially at minor venues.

    My strong recommendation would be for you to get Pioneer CDJ-1000's, as they are the industry standard.

    Contrary to what others have said in the thread, there are things you can ONLY do with CDs, such as loops and cue points; it can be a major asset in mixing. Is it a different experience? Absolutely, but it's something everyone needs to learn to use at this point.

    You CAN learn on lesser decks, but I would advise against it; if you're going to take this seriously, you're going to end up purchasing them in the end anyway, and if you decide it isn't for you, they're going to hold their value far better than Gemini or Numark decks will. It will end up costing you more in the long run.

    Of course you can burn to CD which negates the need in most cases, but most software is compatible with CD turntables as well; Serato ships with both vinyl and CD control records. If you want to add vinyl to your setup later, you can always do so, find a pair of used Technics (always, always the industry standard, you'll regret it otherwise, I promise) for relatively cheap and put them alongside your CDJs. Then you too can enjoy the viciously expensive habit of vinyl and the joy it brings and sadness as your records and needles wear out as they need to be replaced.

    But yes, start on CDs, and start on CDJs.

    (if you're planning on being a turntablist, of course, get Technics first and forget everything else)

    TokyoRaver on
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